Back Spin

Max,

Your coach's teaching is very common, but not technically correct.

Tino and ARod swing up to the ball. I have dozens of clips of them. The ball carries because of the batspeed they generate.

If you hit a ball 370, it's because you hit the ball with a batspeed of 80 mph or so, not because you swung down and got backspin.

But levelpath you can have 80 mph bat speed and still not hit it 370 feet if you have an uppercut! Its called pop flys.

Well, I didn't think I would have to include the exact swing angle..but,

...If the ball is met 1/2 inch below the center by a bat moving in a slightly upward (10 degrees or so) direction at a speed of 80 mph or so...the ball should go about 370.

My point was that there are more important factors to driving a ball 370 ft...path of swing, speed of bat, point of contact on the bat...getting backspin from a downward swing angle is not a actual factor...

quote:

Originally posted by Max:
LOOK AT TINO MARTINEZ AND A-ROD SWING THE BAT

I have and they don't swing down on the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by Max:
DAMMIT

Read the board manners please.

not to argue the point. But I can take a fungoe bat and swing down on the ball and hit it a long way out. I can also swing up at a ball with a fungoe and hit it a long way UP.

Jeff, Bring your fungo to Long Beach and I will bring my camera. We will make a bet for a dinner at the Crab Pot.

If I could find a clip I would show you that all big league hitters swing at least somewhat downward to the ball. Almost every single one swings downward to the ball, but you think they swing upward because they have such a good release on the ball. If you dont believe this go to the LA Angels farm system and that is what they teach you from day 1 til your done.

quote:

all big league hitters swing at least somewhat downward to the ball.

It's a fallacy young man.

OK so then how would you tell someone to swing (to the point of contact)?

I suppose "up" or "down" would depend upon from where you begin measuring?

Of course the bat starts out somewhere above the rear shoulder/head and has to come down from there to reach the ball.

However, I think what most people who study/discuss hitting clips refer to as "up" is from around where the bat passes the body and into contact.

Personally, I don't like the downward swing...

but I do notice a lot of hitters in the on deck circle have a tremendous downward angle on their swing. I have always wondered why they practice that swing and who teaches it? During the actual at bat, their swing is always much flatter.

I E MAILED A-ROD AND ASKED HIM IF HE SWINGS DOWN ON THE BALL.

WHEN HE REPLIES I WILL COPY AND PASTE IT.

THEN YOU WILL ALL SAY BALONEY MAX DOCTORED THE E MAIL, BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW MAX AND YOU DON'T KNOW THAT MAX DOESN'T LIE

SO I WILL POST A LINK WHERE YOU CAN E MAIL HIM TOO.

Alright but do you have to use the CAPS?

I have had a good opportunity to hit with really good hitters, some in professional baseball...and some in college, who also work with my coach. A few that I have had the opportunity to hit with are Chris Minaker (Stanford), Jeff Cirillo (Milwaukee Brewers), Stephen Englund (2nd round pick), Justin Fuller (LC State) to name a few. They all have one thing in common which is very important in a swing. They all COMPRESS down thru a baseball, and that is where you get power from (and using your middle). You can't compress thru a baseball with an uppercut swing. Not only can you not do that, it will also be much harder to catch up to a 95 MPH fastball at the top of the strike zone...

The bat head should be traveling on an upward plane into contact zone and angle will vary based on pitch location. With proper posture
establishing swing plane/trajectory, the lower the pitch the greater the angle.

Shortstop11, Did you watch the Home Run Derby and see the super slow motion swings? In every swing, the replay showed the bat striking the ball at an upward angle, an angle close to the flight of the ball. The bat usually started it's upward trajectory a good foot and a half before striking the ball. And the hitters were not changing their swing for the derby, in fact David Wright seemed to use much less of an uppercut than he uses in a game.

As for MLB hitters saying that they swing down, many of them say that they feel doing it, but slow motion replays reveal that they do not. Try this website and tell me who swings down...
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/swings.html

Play these clips frame by frame, and stop each clip the frame before contact. You will never see a bat going down and "compressing" through the ball. Despite what Arod and Jeff Cirillo say.

I couldn't resist, but this is a perfect anecdote lifted from another website.

quote:

Always, when this conversation arises, I remember a story Don Slaught told me about talking w/ Barry Bonds about his swing. Bonds said he "was hitting all right, but didn't think he was swinging down sharply enough to contact." Slaught told him that in fact, like all MLB hitters, he swung UP to contact. Bonds vehemently denied the possibility of this. Slaught used RVP {Right View Pro} to convince Bonds, and later heard him walk up to ARod at the All Star Game batting practice and say, "Alex, you know you don't swing down to the ball, right?"

quote:

You can't compress thru a baseball with an uppercut swing. Not only can you not do that, it will also be much harder to catch up to a 95 MPH fastball at the top of the strike zone...

Exactly....which explains why MLB hitters adjust there posture (spine angle) upward during weight shift on high pitches in keeping the lead arm perpendicular to contact point.
By being more upright, less angle is created for a flatter swing. Also note posture is relative to lean at contact...less lean on higher pitches, more lean on lower pitches.

SS11, take a look at swing path in these two clips, one old and one new...

`

Alright I guess you guys are right. That quote from Levelpath makes me realize that you dont REALLY swing down on the ball, but it sure helps as a hitter to think that way.
Also one more question.. do all professional scouts pretty much teach the same type of swing or do different scouts teach different ways? I guess what I'm asking is do their beliefs vary and teach their hitters different hitting principles than other scouts? And what are the absolutes?

quote:

Originally posted by Shortstop 11:
Alright but do you have to use the CAPS?

I have had a good opportunity to hit with really good hitters, some in professional baseball...and some in college, who also work with my coach. A few that I have had the opportunity to hit with are Chris Minaker (Stanford), Jeff Cirillo (Milwaukee Brewers), Stephen Englund (2nd round pick), Justin Fuller (LC State) to name a few. They all have one thing in common which is very important in a swing. They all COMPRESS down thru a baseball, and that is where you get power from (and using your middle). You can't compress thru a baseball with an uppercut swing. Not only can you not do that, it will also be much harder to catch up to a 95 MPH fastball at the top of the strike zone...

Steve Englund

Steve Englund swings with a slight upswing, and that is one of the reasons he has a chance to be a power hitter.If he had a downswing, I would not have drafted him. Notice how he drills the catcher with his follow through.

BBscout

Wished you would have posted this yesterday because I would have definitely given a positive mention of this hitter's swing to your Farm Director Andy Dunn who I had the pleasure of spending some quality and very positive time with today at Colton's GCL start. He told me he just left Vermont and I told him how much I believed in you and Brett, and I mean it, and how long it took me as professional to make adjustments with wood after aluminum as well as other examples. I also gave him some "verbal" reports on George Lombard who I scouted when I worked with Orioles in GA when he patrolled OF in Atlanta Braves organization who I was looking for today at game because he knows me and "was" on NATS GCL roster last week. Anyway, Andy informed me that he had just been promoted top AAA NATS affiliate Darn! Was waiting in the wings!!

Englund looks really good in the clip BB, good draft and sign. You did sign him I hope??!! peace, Shep

BBscout

After going over my scouting notes I realized that Englund was playing CF yesterday for GCL NATS and knocked the cover off the ball in at least one of his ABs yesterday! WOW! Didn't realize that was your sign out there, he looked really good!
He will play in Bigs, fore sure! Sorry I didn't pick up on this earlier but there are just so many thousand names running around up here in this old and feeble brain Thanks for not embarrasing me....but in all humility, I must admit, I missed that one.... peace

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT YAZ AND BONDS ARE DROP DOWN AND DRIVING WITH AN UPPERCUT PROBABLY A MIDDLE IN PITCH

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT STAYING ABOVE THE BALL AND SWINGING DOWN LEVEL THRU AND UP IS WRONG JUST DIFFERENT

KIND OF LIKE TYPING IN CAPS

I JUST LOOKED HERE

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro

I THINK I AM WRONG IT SURE LOOKS LIKE ALL THESE HITTERS ARE SWINGING UP AT CONTACT

If you want to see one of the best examples of keeping the barrel inside the baseball, look at number 9 with Ortiz pulling hands in slightly and keeping barrel inside of ball on inside half pitch.

One thing I noticed in every one of these Ziggy examples, the bat has to come down before it goes back up in the uppercut fashion creating a natural reverse backspin on ball off bat
peace, Shep

This one had some back spin on it, as it seemed to just carry and carry.

Sandman

That was a serious swing from that prospect! Sorry I missed this earlier. That is some serious backspin How far did it go anyway? WOW!!! peace

Went back and read...That is quite a feat for the little guy! That is a long way for a player that age to hit a baseball for sure! How tall is he anyway? His mechanics looked VERY GOOD! peace

lookin good sandman!

Thanks guys.

Shep, he is almost 4'10" and weighs ~95 lbs. He turns 12 10 days after this game.

Shep #8 Ortiz, had to do that because he was beat by the pitch. He was late and it was his only chance. Thats not his normal swing, for sure! Later

Nice looking kid you've got there Sandman.

Vance34

Are number 8 & 9 clips of Ortiz the same swing??
I have looked at them and don't think so. Number nine(9) clip of Ortiz is the one I made reference to, not 8. Not a problem though and if these two clips are the same, I apologize in advance, Vance Peace, Shep

Great posts fellas, way to keep it civil. A good hitter will start taking his hands down towards the baseball. So, your first movement after the load, is to "take it down". You don't want to chicken wing that front elbow. But then your barrel will eventually drop before contact. Then it is job of the back leg and top hand to drive that barrel back up through the baseball. In saying that, backspin is excellent. Swinging down is wrong. Not a professional swing, however, it is good to think in the box, "take it down" with the nob of the bat, so you will stay compact. IF you are thinking "swing up", a lot of bad stuff can happen. Great clips by the way, those are great examples, those guys all take the nob down and then the barrel takes off because of the hip action.

www.baseballpros.net

MAX

We're still waiting for that email response from AROD you said you would cut and paste here at HSBBW in this thread. He's prolly too busy in the batting cages trying to get rid of that uppercut and swamped in emails trying to respond to all those diehard boo-bird fans in the bronx Later!

bubnbran

Always good to see you back here brother. You are very good for baseball. Hope and pray prospects will be led your way because I know you are very knowledgeable and can help a prospect to reach his full-potential. Peace, Shep

I'M STILL WAITING TOO

Max

Please stop yelling at us! Just kidding, yell all you want to.

Hope AROD's paid staff of email response team will get caught up enough to get to your email and get a response out soon. Seriously, peace, Shep.

Shep, 8 and 9 are the same swing and on the same pitch and on the same day but from two different angles. Your still the man!

Woops! No evidently, you're the man Apologize for the brain cramp or is it these ole tired eyes. Well, maybe a little bit of both

Have a good day Vance34 and a definite shout out of Peace to you Brother! Shep

Shep...thanks for the encouragement...prospect wise the GCL Braves are struggling. It is hard for some of these kids to make the adjustment to pro ball. But, we are working hard. We do have good pitching however, imagine that... the Braves having good pitching in thier system! Any way I can help, I am willing to on this website. I think it can very beneficial to young players. Make sure we keep the arguing to a minimum. Save that for private posts. Young players need this as a resource, as do parents. Sometimes I am hesitant to post anything due to the ridicule from all the "experts" that sometimes frequent this site.

www.baseballpros.net

Oooooopsie - he's baaaaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!

And - believe it or not - with another question.

LOL