Yes, that was new info to me...
quote:He states, that they can improve your vision, hand / eye coordination as well as reaction time and strength..
The fact that he is a chemist does not make him an expert in physiology, exercise physiology, phamacology or anything near that. One of the problems with taking anecdotal information from the media is that everyone can have an opinion, but you cannot measure the expertise and scientific validity of the opinion. There were parts of the interview that were quite interesting but his opinion does not mean it is a fact and it shouldn't be accepted or portrayed as fact.
To be honest, I think this issue still persists and has been known far longer than anyone is admitting. Bud did an interview in SF and said the knowledge of this issue only reached him in 1998.
That seems like Stern saying I never knew about this referee even though the FBI has been investigating him for 2 years.
Over the past week I have been watching a player who has just been activated after a 6-7 week stint on the D/L. The guys body is entirely different than before he went on the D/L.
When Bonds isn't between the foul lines, I really have nothing but distaste for him. But, IMO, the more this issue focuses solely on Bonds, the more it misses the mark. Sheffield clearly admits to using the cream/clear but denies using steroids...and nothing is happening with him.
The more I read, the more convinced I have become this issue touches people that don't want to be touched. The more this focuses on Bonds, the more likely the tree could be chopped and the diseased forest will go untouched, and the rot can continue, until lightning strikes it another day.
As has been said many times in many places Bonds has become the scapegoat for the MLB ineptitude-- both Sheffield and Bonds claim they have never even met this Balco guy--everyone wants a BOOK !!!!!
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
The more this focuses on Bonds, the more likely the tree could be chopped and the diseased forest will go untouched, and the rot can continue, until lightning strikes it another day.
I better give 'em their meds!
.
.
.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
As has been said many times in many places Bonds has become the scapegoat for the MLB ineptitude-- both Sheffield and Bonds claim they have never even met this Balco guy--everyone wants a BOOK !!!!!
TR, they didn't have to meet the Balco guy. Greg Anderson met the guy and plead guilty to charges involving steroids. Anderson is currently sitting in the local jail because he refuses to answer questions about steroids, his distibution of steroids, and his notes about use by his childhood friend.
I cannot tell what you mean by the reference to Sheffield. His denial of steroid use because he didn't inject them into his butt is beyond incredulous.
This isn't about a book at all. It is a real life issue with billions of dollars ultimately involved.
infielddad
Talk about minds not knowing what is going on---
I have never denied that "enhancers", by the way enhancers are not necessarily "roids", are used in MLB but to make Bonds the scapegoat is what truly irritates me---he has never been proven to have done anything----neither have Clemens, AROD, and others who may now have larger and bigger hat sizes, for whatever that is worth. Does anybody talk about Edmonds huge year ?---NO---he isnt chasing the record.
If it wasnt for Bonds chasing Aaron's record there would not be all this noise---and will it happen again when AROD gets to the magic numbers---you can count on it
Many have accused me of having my head in the sand regardinmg this issue but I think it is you who have your heads in the sand---I raised the point a number of times about Maris hitting 61 HRS in a year when he never broke 39 before or after---think about that---think about Edmonds---
Folks --sit back and think about it
Talk about minds not knowing what is going on---
I have never denied that "enhancers", by the way enhancers are not necessarily "roids", are used in MLB but to make Bonds the scapegoat is what truly irritates me---he has never been proven to have done anything----neither have Clemens, AROD, and others who may now have larger and bigger hat sizes, for whatever that is worth. Does anybody talk about Edmonds huge year ?---NO---he isnt chasing the record.
If it wasnt for Bonds chasing Aaron's record there would not be all this noise---and will it happen again when AROD gets to the magic numbers---you can count on it
Many have accused me of having my head in the sand regardinmg this issue but I think it is you who have your heads in the sand---I raised the point a number of times about Maris hitting 61 HRS in a year when he never broke 39 before or after---think about that---think about Edmonds---
Folks --sit back and think about it
quote:but to make Bonds the scapegoat is what truly irritates me---he has never been proven to have done anything
TR, I completely agree that Bonds is the scapegoat.
As to your second point about proof, the fact that only one player in MLB has ever been "proven," by the MLB testing, to have used a performance enhancing drug,(I am excluding Neifi) doesn't give any reassurance, whatsover, to that position.
I think you both have points.
Bonds is about to break a pehnominal record set years ago. I agree, if he wasn't about to break it, no one would care. Big problem is, although he has not been found guilty other than by association, his self rightgeous attitude is what makes more people dislike him. I would bet if he was more of a pleasant individual, people wouldn't care.
These men are athletes, and athletes know what they injest, inject and rub on their bodies. Don't try to fool me, Bonds numbers put up were significantly higher in the "steroid" era. He's not the only one. As far as I am concerned, any player during this era who broke records most likely did so with a little help.
I don't see anyone making him a scapegoat, I could be wrong. For me, he's no better than the rest of those that cheated, but we will never know who did and who didn't. I never liked him, so that makes it harder.
I agree with infielddad, continuing to focus soley on Bonds, just is sweeping the whole thing under the carpet...again.
JMO.
Bonds is about to break a pehnominal record set years ago. I agree, if he wasn't about to break it, no one would care. Big problem is, although he has not been found guilty other than by association, his self rightgeous attitude is what makes more people dislike him. I would bet if he was more of a pleasant individual, people wouldn't care.
These men are athletes, and athletes know what they injest, inject and rub on their bodies. Don't try to fool me, Bonds numbers put up were significantly higher in the "steroid" era. He's not the only one. As far as I am concerned, any player during this era who broke records most likely did so with a little help.
I don't see anyone making him a scapegoat, I could be wrong. For me, he's no better than the rest of those that cheated, but we will never know who did and who didn't. I never liked him, so that makes it harder.
I agree with infielddad, continuing to focus soley on Bonds, just is sweeping the whole thing under the carpet...again.
JMO.
I disagree with the idea that Bonds being a jerk is why folks are upset....
Mark McGwire was loved as a player, but is shunned now after his performance in front of congress... people do NOT like cheaters!
Mark McGwire was loved as a player, but is shunned now after his performance in front of congress... people do NOT like cheaters!
TRhit,
I just cannot agree with you that Bond's is unfairly being made a scapegoat for the overall steroid use in baseball. It just happens to be his turn as he approaches the HR record.
Jason Giambi has been ripped by everyone just as much as Bond's has, probably more so. McGwire's words get repeated constantly in the media as an example of the dirty, cheating, and secretive MLB player and Palmiero was disgraced publicly and professionally. Jose Canseco has been targeted for public humiliation by MLB and the press after he went public with the steroid issue. Sammy Sosa has also received his share of bad press recently after his 600th HR.
There are players that have actually been caught using steroids and been suspended by MLB but you don't here anything about them at all. This is all about the superstars. All of them! NOT JUST BONDS.
As for Roger Maris, the one thing I did here about his record was that he did it in an expansion year.
I honestly don't think any of us have our heads in the sand on this issue. But I, like you, see baseball suffering the after effects of the steroid era for decades to come.
I just cannot agree with you that Bond's is unfairly being made a scapegoat for the overall steroid use in baseball. It just happens to be his turn as he approaches the HR record.
Jason Giambi has been ripped by everyone just as much as Bond's has, probably more so. McGwire's words get repeated constantly in the media as an example of the dirty, cheating, and secretive MLB player and Palmiero was disgraced publicly and professionally. Jose Canseco has been targeted for public humiliation by MLB and the press after he went public with the steroid issue. Sammy Sosa has also received his share of bad press recently after his 600th HR.
There are players that have actually been caught using steroids and been suspended by MLB but you don't here anything about them at all. This is all about the superstars. All of them! NOT JUST BONDS.
As for Roger Maris, the one thing I did here about his record was that he did it in an expansion year.
I honestly don't think any of us have our heads in the sand on this issue. But I, like you, see baseball suffering the after effects of the steroid era for decades to come.
quote:There are players that have actually been caught using steroids and been suspended by MLB but you don't here anything about them at all.
DOD, I don't think that is quite correct, at the major league level.
There has been one player, Palmeiro, who failed. Just one in all of MLB. The rest have been in the minor leagues where the program is much more pervasive.
IMO, the drug testing program in MLB is PR related, not substantive.
Neifi's result, the other positive one reported at the ML level, sounded like a stimulant not a steroid.
I don't understand any comment that bonds is being made a scapegoat. A scapegoat for what? The point of a scapegoat is to misdirect or redirect blame to a third person who is innocent or not at the heart of the issue. bonds is very much at the heart of this issue.
As noted above mcgwire is now like a non-entity. he and many others are no longer playing so they don't draw the attention. bonds is still playing. Giambi is still playing and is at least making an effort to address this.
Very simple what went on here to my thinking. As sosa and mcgwire were getting all the attention, poor little barry couldn't take it so he jumped on the 'roid train to prove the HE is the man and the attention should be his not sosa's or mcqwire.
And this thread is about bonds. If someone wants to start a thread about other "suspected" cheaters like Big Mac or Slammin' Sammy or Palmiero or Brady Anderson etc. etc. they have dishonored and damaged the game just the same and I've got no problem with MLB jumping after them (but what do you do to retired players?).
It is interesting that some will go to any length to defend bonds and this whole circumstance. Again and again people ignore that bonds has ADMITTED to taking steroid products. He just throws in that he did not KNOWINGLY do it. Just something his lawyer told him to say. Palmiero has tested positive. Sosa pretended he can't speak English and McGwire simply killed himself with his nonsense testimony.
And to drag Maris into this. Please. If he was on 'roids in 1961 for one year. come on. It was a fluke, yes. But it was an expansion year. He played in lefty friendly Yankee stadium and in a lineup with Mantle, Berra, etc. around him. With those factors my mom coulda hit 20 homeruns and she's never hit more than 10 in her career
As noted above mcgwire is now like a non-entity. he and many others are no longer playing so they don't draw the attention. bonds is still playing. Giambi is still playing and is at least making an effort to address this.
Very simple what went on here to my thinking. As sosa and mcgwire were getting all the attention, poor little barry couldn't take it so he jumped on the 'roid train to prove the HE is the man and the attention should be his not sosa's or mcqwire.
And this thread is about bonds. If someone wants to start a thread about other "suspected" cheaters like Big Mac or Slammin' Sammy or Palmiero or Brady Anderson etc. etc. they have dishonored and damaged the game just the same and I've got no problem with MLB jumping after them (but what do you do to retired players?).
It is interesting that some will go to any length to defend bonds and this whole circumstance. Again and again people ignore that bonds has ADMITTED to taking steroid products. He just throws in that he did not KNOWINGLY do it. Just something his lawyer told him to say. Palmiero has tested positive. Sosa pretended he can't speak English and McGwire simply killed himself with his nonsense testimony.
And to drag Maris into this. Please. If he was on 'roids in 1961 for one year. come on. It was a fluke, yes. But it was an expansion year. He played in lefty friendly Yankee stadium and in a lineup with Mantle, Berra, etc. around him. With those factors my mom coulda hit 20 homeruns and she's never hit more than 10 in her career
quote:I don't understand any comment that bonds is being made a scapegoat. A scapegoat for what? The point of a scapegoat is to misdirect or redirect blame to a third person who is innocent or not at the heart of the issue. bonds is very much at the heart of this issue.
Let me give my explanation. IMO, Bonds is the very best player of the steroid era in baseball. By focusing so very much on the best player, the extent to which baseball was contaminated by steroids, HGH and other enhancers gets missed. The extent of the knowledge of the use gets missed. Sheffield, can, almost with impunity, say he didn't use because he didn't get a shot in the butt.
IMO, Bonds didn't cause the problem. He is the most notable result of the problem. The focus is on him, not the root cause of the nature, extent, pervasiveness and knowledge of the use of enhancing substances.
And what about the reported failed a drug test by Major League Baseball last season for amphetamines? When first informed of the positive test, Bonds attributed it to a substance he had taken from teammate Mark Sweeney’s locker, which Sweeney denied. Bonds later denied his statement saying he did not get amphetamines from Sweeney’s locker, apologizes to his teammate, and blames the media for the mix up. Now, maybe it was the media’s fault, but Bonds was sure quick to drag a teammate “under the bus” when the report first came out. IMHO, only a coward would do something like this.
Baseball banned uppers for the first time starting last season. A player is not identified until after failing two amphetamines tests, which also results in a 25-game suspension. A first amphetamines offense requires six additional drug tests over the following six months. The first failed steroids test, by comparison, is a 50-game suspension.
Baseball banned uppers for the first time starting last season. A player is not identified until after failing two amphetamines tests, which also results in a 25-game suspension. A first amphetamines offense requires six additional drug tests over the following six months. The first failed steroids test, by comparison, is a 50-game suspension.
edgedel
my favorite was when he dragged his son Nikoli out as his human shield during spring training when balco broke....a mans man.
quote:Now, maybe it was the media’s fault, but Bonds was sure quick to drag a teammate “under the bus” when the report first came out. IMHO, only a coward would do something like this.
my favorite was when he dragged his son Nikoli out as his human shield during spring training when balco broke....a mans man.
deemax, Your picture.
Is that you and your brother?
I know that field behind you, Upper parking lot at Pepperdine.
Nice picture.
Bond's is a victim of his own Arrogance and Ego.
And the fact that nothing was being done to stop steroid use in the MLB.
It just totally became accepted by some inside of baseball that it was OK to use it.
It's not OK to use it anymore, It's not accepted in the sport now. And I hope it gets cleaned up.
I hope everybody involved has received the message.
EH
Is that you and your brother?
I know that field behind you, Upper parking lot at Pepperdine.
Nice picture.
Bond's is a victim of his own Arrogance and Ego.
And the fact that nothing was being done to stop steroid use in the MLB.
It just totally became accepted by some inside of baseball that it was OK to use it.
It's not OK to use it anymore, It's not accepted in the sport now. And I hope it gets cleaned up.
I hope everybody involved has received the message.
EH
Now here's a Commisioner that "get's it"
Mark Kriegel
FOXSports.com, Updated 3 days ago
Unlike Selig, who might have convened a blue ribbon panel to study dogfighting, Goodell understands that scandals are born in the waiting. So he didn't wait on the union. He didn't wait on a verdict. Rather, he seized an opportunity to draw a distinction between right and privilege.
In a letter to the quarterback, he explained that due process is a constitutional right for the accused, not a privilege accorded to those with a roster spot: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football league to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."
Pacman Jones, who keeps getting arrested before he can even go to trial, no longer seems an anomaly. Goodell is less concerned with individual rights than the greater good, the league's image. At least he's consistent. The message is clear: conviction is no prerequisite to punishment. The guys in your crew aren't an excuse anymore. Bad behavior won't be ignored.
On the Mark: Goodell changing the rules
Mark Kriegel
FOXSports.com, Updated 3 days ago
Unlike Selig, who might have convened a blue ribbon panel to study dogfighting, Goodell understands that scandals are born in the waiting. So he didn't wait on the union. He didn't wait on a verdict. Rather, he seized an opportunity to draw a distinction between right and privilege.
In a letter to the quarterback, he explained that due process is a constitutional right for the accused, not a privilege accorded to those with a roster spot: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football league to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."
Pacman Jones, who keeps getting arrested before he can even go to trial, no longer seems an anomaly. Goodell is less concerned with individual rights than the greater good, the league's image. At least he's consistent. The message is clear: conviction is no prerequisite to punishment. The guys in your crew aren't an excuse anymore. Bad behavior won't be ignored.
On the Mark: Goodell changing the rules
quote:Originally posted by Glove Man:
Now here's a Commisioner that "get's it"
Mark Kriegel
FOXSports.com, Updated 3 days ago
Unlike Selig, who might have convened a blue ribbon panel to study dogfighting, Goodell understands that scandals are born in the waiting. So he didn't wait on the union. He didn't wait on a verdict. Rather, he seized an opportunity to draw a distinction between right and privilege.
In a letter to the quarterback, he explained that due process is a constitutional right for the accused, not a privilege accorded to those with a roster spot: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football league to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."
Pacman Jones, who keeps getting arrested before he can even go to trial, no longer seems an anomaly. Goodell is less concerned with individual rights than the greater good, the league's image. At least he's consistent. The message is clear: conviction is no prerequisite to punishment. The guys in your crew aren't an excuse anymore. Bad behavior won't be ignored.
On the Mark: Goodell changing the rules
Finally, some good sense!
Memo to Florida Marlins' pitchers last night:
Bonds had one hit and four walks.
YOU "professional" pitchers are SISSIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You go, Barry.
Bonds had one hit and four walks.
YOU "professional" pitchers are SISSIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You go, Barry.
while i don't care for barry personaly he has had a hof career. that said why is it mlb baseball does nothing to police their players and at the same time test the bejesus out of the minor leaguers? tobacco use is andressed at the milb,and given freely at the mlb level? you don't need to be the head cashier at the home depot to see they don't relly want to stop the use just look like they do. is it that hard to enforce the rules on a bunch of millionairs? not many jobs out there today that have random drug test that only test the ones they know will pass.or pay as well. what's up with that?
eh
yep, and its pepperdine.
quote:deemax, Your picture.
Is that you and your brother?
yep, and its pepperdine.
Major League Baseball Players Association
The Union!
It seems that everyone thinks the commissioner is solely responsible for everything that happens.
There are two sides who don't always agree on everything. Remember the strike not so many years ago?
To me there is a question as to which group MLB or MLBPA is the most powerful. Yet everyone seems to blame only the players and the commissioner.
BTW, this union does not represent the minor league players.
The Union!
It seems that everyone thinks the commissioner is solely responsible for everything that happens.
There are two sides who don't always agree on everything. Remember the strike not so many years ago?
To me there is a question as to which group MLB or MLBPA is the most powerful. Yet everyone seems to blame only the players and the commissioner.
BTW, this union does not represent the minor league players.
Dear Barry,
Please hit 5 home runs tonight - and then go away.
Please.
Please hit 5 home runs tonight - and then go away.
Please.
Now watch the Giants sell their soul to the devil so Bonds can break the record at home. Now the talk is safety.
Watch how much he sits the next week. I would hate to be a Giant this year.
Watch how much he sits the next week. I would hate to be a Giant this year.
What choice do they have, del? Imagine the reaction in front of any other fans in the league.
Disco Demolition Night comes to mind.
Disco Demolition Night comes to mind.
A European s0ccer match comes to my mind! 
its:
Thank you.
Thank you.
...can break the record...
...Disco Demolition Night...
What a tag team...deldad and Orlando!
...Disco Demolition Night...
What a tag team...deldad and Orlando!
I found it interesting at Wrigley when he hit the two the other day, yes, there was booing, but once he made contact most people took a deep breath and the boos didn't start back up right away. I think everyone's initial reaction will be fascination and only after that will they boo.
Bochy says he is going to play him like normal.
Disco demo night? That would be a CLEAR sign that the CREAM has risen to the top.
Bochy says he is going to play him like normal.
Disco demo night? That would be a CLEAR sign that the CREAM has risen to the top.
July 12, 1979.
Bill Veeck was a genius! Look at what he did to further my career. He literally pulled me from one 3-ring circus, and pushed me into another.
Wood.....You gotta be down there somewhere? I just hope and pray you're not one of those guys wearing a pair of "bun hugger" shorts. Perish the thought!
Bill Veeck was a genius! Look at what he did to further my career. He literally pulled me from one 3-ring circus, and pushed me into another.
Wood.....You gotta be down there somewhere? I just hope and pray you're not one of those guys wearing a pair of "bun hugger" shorts. Perish the thought!
Yeah...security was rather flax that night deldad!
And EddieG...here's a picture of me back in my bun hugging prime...
As I've aged and slowed down I've had to accept the fact that I can't devour hamburgers in gargantuan buns...but I've discovered other avenues for keeping eating interesting. I've traded big for hot...here's a shot of me putting the last of a little flame broiled burger down for the count...
And EddieG...here's a picture of me back in my bun hugging prime...
As I've aged and slowed down I've had to accept the fact that I can't devour hamburgers in gargantuan buns...but I've discovered other avenues for keeping eating interesting. I've traded big for hot...here's a shot of me putting the last of a little flame broiled burger down for the count...
WOOD MAY I OFFER YOU A
A clean up kit! How thoughtful of you TripleDad...where's the plug? How do you plug it in?
I SEE
A MESS LIKE THAT REQUIRES THE MOTORIZED VERSION!
NO PLUG IN THOUGH! THIS BABY IS GAS POWERED! JUST GIVE THE CORD A PULL AND STICK YA FACE IN THERE!
[IMG]http://www.paper-machinery.com/company/Giesse_Srl/NGT300%20(FOTO%20CENTRALE).jpg[/IMG]
A MESS LIKE THAT REQUIRES THE MOTORIZED VERSION!
NO PLUG IN THOUGH! THIS BABY IS GAS POWERED! JUST GIVE THE CORD A PULL AND STICK YA FACE IN THERE!
[IMG]http://www.paper-machinery.com/company/Giesse_Srl/NGT300%20(FOTO%20CENTRALE).jpg[/IMG]