I agree and disagree about travel. I think that if travel organizations were more honest about how the whole thing works, people might pay anyway, but it would seem less shady. My son is at a HA D3 - would just one Headfirst have done the trick? Maybe. We have no legion, so his alternative was a local, dad-run travel team, half the kids hadn't made the high school team. From the travel organization he got better coaches, other motivated players, and good competition. From what I saw in the shortened college season, the freshmen on his college team who had higher-level travel experience were the ones getting regular playing time, the others sat the bench. Chicken, or egg? I do think, though, that there's absolutely no reason for most players to go to the WWBA, which, since it's so big and spread out, is not useful at all for most players, and the 6 nights of hotel was ridiculous.
I should have known not to type in the words “Travel Ball”. My intent was solely to point out that there are coaching opportunities in Travel Ball.
Legion is pretty much dead in most of the Upper Midwest. There aren’t a ton of options. There is some Town Ball among high school athletes in some of the smaller towns. Most of the pitchers there are cruising in the low 70’s with their fastballs.
A vast majority (95%) of the players in WI and IL who go on to play even D3 or JUCO, let alone higher levels, played Travel. It is pretty rare to see a kid who never played an inning of travel ball from our area actually play in college, even at the lower level D3’s. Most of them get cut in the Fall.
Maybe it is different in other parts of the country. That’s just the way it is here. Not every Travel Team is expensive either. There are teams that cost just $500 for a season.
Most of where this conversation went after I typed in “Travel Ball” seems best suited for 2010, not 2020.
I’m not suggesting that kids don’t play travel ball. I’m suggesting that parents and players should be smarter about how they do it. There is no need to spend a ton of money. There is no need for a lot of travel. There is no need to play in national events in FLA & GA. All that is true for 80% of the kids playing travel ball. Another thing that’s true for 100% of travel ball players is that they would develop (improve) at a much quicker rate if they practiced more and played fewer games. There is nothing dated about any of these comments - they are true today & they were true in 2010 too.
@adbono posted:I’m not suggesting that kids don’t play travel ball. I’m suggesting that parents and players should be smarter about how they do it. There is no need to spend a ton of money. There is no need for a lot of travel. There is no need to play in national events in FLA & GA. All that is true for 80% of the kids playing travel ball. Another thing that’s true for 100% of travel ball players is that they would develop (improve) at a much quicker rate if they practiced more and played fewer games. There is nothing dated about any of these comments - they are true today & they were true in 2010 too.
100% same page. Luckily we avoided the extraneous out of town trips this year. Would highly recommend parents of future classes consider the true skill of your player vs the value proposition they may be getting for those trips. That’s where the travel team dynamic hurts parents. Where the Travel team generates most of their revenue and the kids see the least amount of collective ROI.
That I agree with. We are fortunate to have my son play for a great organization that knows how to judge talent levels and knows how to train kids the right way. My son is currently being recruited by several different D3’s all within a 3 hour radius of our home. His travel season existed entirely in that same 3 hour radius. He faced D1 commits as well as D2/D3 commits throughout the summer. There was no reason for him to go to FLA/GA. The kids in the program who are D1 commits and MLB Draft prospects did that.
I also agree 100% that the main focus should be on training. The goal is to play College Baseball, not sit in the dugout and watch it. I’ve said it before I know. Far too many kids think the commitment is the goal.
When youngest son was going through recruiting, we lived in the Midwest. But son's top goal was to be SEC or top of ACC so he went to PG in Atlanta a lot to pick up with other teams when his team was not playing. It helped that his main team played top tournaments in Midwest and major PG stuff. I think the same way you have to know what pond to fish in, where the player can play, they also have to know what tournaments to go to where those coaches will be. If you are not looking for top D1's or teams in south you do not need to go to big PG events, but if it is then that's where you need to be. You need to find the travel/showcase teams that go where your player needs to be seen.
The cost of it is also according to the level you want to play and what you bring to the table. You can play top level ball and not pay if you find the right teams that you want your player. Finding the teams that are looking for players happens in every PG tournament if your player has something to offer. If they don't have something to offer, then they probably do not need to be playing in those tournaments.
I know that sounds harsh, but it is the truth. Been doing it with my sons and others for 23 years. it is the facts.
I have found that over the years, I give advice, don't spend your money until you have to. But some how parents feel that if they don't have their son go to many events, they won't get an offer. Once again, baseball should be the vehicle to help you get school paid for.
I was looking at some commitments today, which I never do, and had to chuckle at the amount of 2024s. I mean come on. But to each their own. Someone told me once these young committs and parents or grandparents are alumni and supporters. Ok, I get that.
I am all in on the train and practice more, play and travel less until it's important to do so.
I am of the belief that is - if you are dumb enough to be chasing a Baseball scholarship for Monetary value, you are misguided or blind. Either way good luck because if you really believe that you most likely can’t afford to pay the college bill anyway
I am also of the belief that time and money spent with son isn’t wasted...you all have a budget, if you enjoy travel and the associated experiences have it. This site is obsessed with the cost of travel ball as if everything else is free.
@old_school posted:I am of the belief that is - if you are dumb enough to be chasing a Baseball scholarship for Monetary value, you are misguided or blind. Either way good luck because if you really believe that you most likely can’t afford to pay the college bill anyway
I am also of the belief that time and money spent with son isn’t wasted...you all have a budget, if you enjoy travel and the associated experiences have it. This site is obsessed with the cost of travel ball as if everything else is free.
I don’t know about obsessed, I can’t speak to any experiences other than my own. And we had a very negative one. I’m a very deliberate spender, do my due diligence, etc. Yet we were burned by the travel process and due to that negative experience I made a point of saying that I would speak up about it to let other families know the potential traps that the system has in place. Obviously travel works for some players and families, but at this point I know more families that have spent their money for very little return.
The reason it’s a returning topic on this site is because it’s a systemic issue. It’s a part of the recruiting process that has become so immersed it’s almost impossible to avoid, yet the ROI is wildly and unpredictably variable. How to a maneuver around something that is systemically unavoidable yet questionably reliable is the reason, I suspect, this topic is repeatedly highlighted on a sight designed to offer navigational advice to parents.
Like PitchingFan, my son wanted to go East to school from Texas, so I disagree with your blanket comment about not traveling for the Big Events. You have to go where you can be seen - by the people you want to be seen by.
We had no issues getting in front of Texas and surrounding states, but anyone in VA , TN, NC, SC, AL or GA wasn't coming to TX for a tournament, when there is such a larger density of recruits and events in the ATL.
Yes you can be smart about it as well. You don't have to go to every event, but if you're on a team for the WWBAs and some of the larger events, you'll be seen, especially if your team plays one of the national teams where the scouts are anyways.
Yes, it can get nutty. We've been playing travel ball since 9u. Last year (summer/fall) was super expensive $15K+ with flights, hotels, camps, cars, food, etc. to/from the east coast. But it paid off in the long run with exposure to different schools, campuses, coaches, and a $hitton of college and pro scout exposure and a sweet offer.
This year, since he has a spot, the PC told us that we didn't have to chase tournaments or travel much and only go to 3-4 events with East Cobb to face good competition, but also pick up reps locally when you can to keep him active.
We double dipped on a Tourney with East Cobb Astros in ATL and then Hoover in one round trip in the car. That helped. Drove out for WWBA. Flying to now Ft Meyers for WWBA in October., otherwise we're grabbing reps locally.
My son still hasn't hit 50 IP the entire spring/summer. Normally that isn't even a HS season. So basically he hasn't even made it to "Districts in April" yet. He's about 1/2 the IP of last year. Given his summer didn't start til late June, we're staying active and getting in reps where we can. We drove up to Dallas from Austin for a game to drive back. Drover over to Texas A&M for 3 IP at a showcase - just to get reps. Down to Tomball (Houston) from Austin for a game and going to Tomball again next weekend for the day for another.
No local reps in Austin. You gotta get em where you can. Just be smart and frugal about it.
Son is still on the journey, so I'm still learning (with huge help from this resource). We're in Atlanta, so we're fortunate that travel is almost always relegated to day trips.
The first year son played in his org (14U, and his first year playing outside of park-based teams), he was on the lowest of their 7 teams in the spring. He played hard, learned tons, and was really disappointed to not get invited to Ft Myers that summer.
He played with them again in the fall, worked incredibly hard over the winter, and was placed on probably the #5 team. Did well again, even through injuries, and also played on his HS summer ball team. Went to Ft. Myers, was frustrated, and came away with the belief that there's no need to pay to travel 1,000 miles away to get beaten when you can lose at home to the same teams and sleep in your own bed.
Took fall off after 15U summer to rest, practice a ton, gain strength. Went to his first PG showcase in FL, came away with a good understanding of where he was in the measurables. This year was 16U, third year with same org, was on the #3 or #4 team (depending on the weekend, but ultimately his team finished #3 across the board). No trip to FL (fine with us), all tourneys here in GA. Son did well, recovered from some dead periods in batting to lead the team, and continued to improve across the board both offensively and defensively.
Before he started in travel 4 years ago, he (we) had no idea what the competition was really like out there. He knew some catcher in his grade in his middle school named Dylan was really good, but we both figured that was because he was maturing faster than him, like that middle infielder named Brady in the neighboring county who was 6'3 and 200 in the 9th grade. After his first full year, he had a much more realistic view of where he was, what his skillset is, and what it was going to take to play at the next level.
Looking back, I don't know that I'd change much at all that he's done since he took the leap at 14U. His organization has recognized his work ethic/progression, and he's moved up when others have stalled. Meanwhile, son recognizes that there is a difference between where he is and where the #1, 2, etc. catchers are, and doesn't have a grudge. Rather, he competes/learns from them while also supporting/cheering them on (they're already committed, so they aren't competition anyway). And through it all, he's trying to keep his academics on point to help make it easier for a school to say yes.
Ultimately, he may not end up at one of the schools he's targeting. But (barring injury/unfortunate events), he'll play baseball in college at some level if he wants to. And I think that's ultimately going to be enough for him. I know it's enough for me.
@adbono posted:Another thing that’s true for 100% of travel ball players is that they would develop (improve) at a much quicker rate if they practiced more and played fewer games.
Serious question here: do you think that's true of catchers? I think that once they have the fundamentals down, catching real games can be just as powerful a learning tool. They're constantly on, constantly focusing, constantly practicing their skill set in a game (unlike the LF who may get 3 balls his way in 2 hours).
That said, the key factor they need in the game to facilitate the learning, though, is a knowledgeable coach who is working with them constantly. Someone who tells them when they need to receive it deeper, or roll their thumb a bit more, etc.. A summer of in-game reps and feedback like that can transform a catcher, IMO.
But if they're not getting that feedback, then it's just gonna be reps, not a learning experience. Bad habits get reinforced, laziness goes unchecked, etc..
@anotherparent posted:From the travel organization he got better coaches, other motivated players, and good competition. From what I saw in the shortened college season, the freshmen on his college team who had higher-level travel experience were the ones getting regular playing time, the others sat the bench. Chicken, or egg?
We have heard this from some local boys (Georgia) who have gone on to play HA D3. The kids from the south and west who have essentially year-round, high-level travel ball tend to play, the kids from the colder climes tend to sit.
@Eokerholm posted:Like PitchingFan, my son wanted to go East to school from Texas, so I disagree with your blanket comment about not traveling for the Big Events. You have to go where you can be seen - by the people you want to be seen by.
His point, which I agree with, is that those big tournaments are only useful for a percentage of players with your son being part of that percentage.
Not counting 2020 there are about 400 teams that enter the WWBA every year. That tournament is a complete waste for 250 teams straight off the bat. The pool winners belong. The rest it's really a coin flip depending on who they play against and whether their coach is connected.
If you want to play big boy baseball, the events are necessary. The problem is, the majority of the field can't play at that level, either nobody tells them this or they don't realize it so it is wasted money. The point is that you can plan smarter, save money, stay local and still find a place to play. Going to Georgia with an 84 mph fastball isn't going to do anything for anyone. But going to a camp of a school that has already expressed interest in that 84 mph fastball will save you a week in a hotel, a flight, meals, etc and you know they are already interested.
I think one of the best ways to determine what is right/smartest for your son is to get a REALLY good handle on what he is and what he isn’t. You need your own personal assessment to be as accurate as possible. That’s a massive undertaking and it can never stop. You need to always be gathering more information and adjusting his “score” along the way.
Here’s the deal. Many of us parents taught our kids the fundamentals at age 3 or whenever. We played catch with them countless times. Threw BP. Anything and everything. Because of all these hours, we have the wholly unique experience of seeing their absolute upside, their ceilings, their best. NOBODY has seen our kids’ 100% potential like we have. Nor will they. For years, I personally saw all that and decided that’s how good my son truly is. I now know the truth. My son is only as good as he’s consistently shown the people who matter. It doesn’t matter if the people who matter are smart or stupid. Experienced or not. They matter for whatever reason. I don’t.
Treat every data source on your kid’s ability with heavy scrutiny. If you’ve got 20 sources and 3 tell you he’s D1, he’s almost certainly not D1 caliber. Make sure you receive and understand the messages even deeper from the 17 sources that said he wasn’t D1. Few parents and players want to do that. They’d much prefer to focus on the 3 sources that said their kid was D1 or whatever.
Everyone needs to match their recruiting plan to a highly accurate and ever-updating assessment of their kid. When that doesn’t happen, 400 teams end up in Atlanta when there should only be 150.
@DanJ posted:I think one of the best ways to determine what is right/smartest for your son is to get a REALLY good handle on what he is and what he isn’t. You need your own personal assessment to be as accurate as possible. That’s a massive undertaking and it can never stop. You need to always be gathering more information and adjusting his “score” along the way.
Here’s the deal. Many of us parents taught our kids the fundamentals at age 3 or whenever. We played catch with them countless times. Threw BP. Anything and everything. Because of all these hours, we have the wholly unique experience of seeing their absolute upside, their ceilings, their best. NOBODY has seen our kids’ 100% potential like we have. Nor will they. For years, I personally saw all that and decided that’s how good my son truly is. I now know the truth. My son is only as good as he’s consistently shown the people who matter. It doesn’t matter if the people who matter are smart or stupid. Experienced or not. They matter for whatever reason. I don’t.
Treat every data source on your kid’s ability with heavy scrutiny. If you’ve got 20 sources and 3 tell you he’s D1, he’s almost certainly not D1 caliber. Make sure you receive and understand the messages even deeper from the 17 sources that said he wasn’t D1. Few parents and players want to do that. They’d much prefer to focus on the 3 sources that said their kid was D1 or whatever.
Everyone needs to match their recruiting plan to a highly accurate and ever-updating assessment of their kid. When that doesn’t happen, 400 teams end up in Atlanta when there should only be 150.
very honest and smart post
"Everyone needs to match their recruiting plan to a highly accurate and ever-updating assessment of their kid."
This 1000% Especially the ever-updating. And it's not just about metrics. It's about in-game ability.
And then if we could get rid of early commitments (perhaps by making them binding for at least freshman year) we would be golden!