quote:Originally posted by Bas3balldad:
Amen, Brother
cheers
Bear
Amen, Brother
cheers
Bear
Amen, Brother
cheers
Bear
quote:Anytime you bring religion and politics into it your asking for trouble. Its a game. It should be about the game. And this site it much better when we are spending our time talking about the game and those who play it instead of venturing off into these type of topics that bring in so much emotion.
Posted March 13, 2010 08:22 PM Hide Po
Amen
I say Amen as well.Just isn't the place to discuss religion or politics.I Have strong religious beliefs, and I have learned over the years to keep it private.I do however offer prayer when needed or asked for.
Funny thing is everyone prays.When there is a post of someone being hurt, etc, we always all say we are praying for you. That shows me we have more in common than we do not.
Is there anyone who does not pray? I find that very fascinating.
No prayers from me.
quote:No prayers from me.
Thanks.What do you do when someone is ill or needs prayer or thought? Not being rude to your belief just curious.As I always thought people prayed.
I, for one, am thankful that Someone Else is in control of this world and my life. If it were left up to me? What a mess I would make! 
I tell them I hope things go well and I hope you have a good Doc.
quote:I, for one, am thankful that Someone Else is in control of this world and my life.
Actually you would do a much better job of it. The world is in quite bad shape. Haiti, Afghanistan, just to name a few trouble spots. My 65 years on this planet have been magical. Unencumbered by things like religion. Religious differences are the root of most of the worlds ills.
Sorry, have to disagree.
Hum... It seems to me based on some posts here that even in the Deering High School case it would be against their rules concerning a coach interfering and using his moral judgment to stop the drinking party. Maybe this coach has the to each their own philosophy. After all it was outside the role of a coach that should just teach baseball and leave his personal convictions and beliefs out of it. And we all know its the responsibility of the parents to raise their children.
I don't know what the context of "The Bible study" was. There are many lessons that can be taught relative to those writings that all would agree would be good for anyone to learn. Maybe his mistake was calling it a Bible study. He may have been looking at those type of lessons and if discussed without mentioning the word Bible this topic would not even appear here.
I don't know what the context of "The Bible study" was. There are many lessons that can be taught relative to those writings that all would agree would be good for anyone to learn. Maybe his mistake was calling it a Bible study. He may have been looking at those type of lessons and if discussed without mentioning the word Bible this topic would not even appear here.
The coach has an obligation (not moral) to make sure his underage players obey the law while in his charge.
I went with my mother to the doctor five years ago. I sat in the Dr's office with my mom as he walked in. With a grim look on his face he said "Mrs May I am sorry to inform you that you have cancer. This in an aggressive cancer and the treatment for it is very taxing on anyone especially for someone your age. I know this is hard for you to hear but I have to tell you , you need to get your affairs in order rather quickly."
My mom looked at me as I sat there with tears streaming down my face. She looked at me and said. "Ken dont you worry about me. The Lord is in control of this. Who else would you rather have in control than him?" The Dr then looked at my mom and said "Mrs May do you understand what I am telling you?" My mom said "Dr do you have your affairs in order?" The Dr had this weird look on his face. Here is this 72 year old women looking at him with a smile on her face after being told what she was just told. The Dr said "Mrs May this is not about me. This is about you and what you need to do." My mom said "Dr you are not in control the Lord is. Just tell me what the treatment plan is and tell me what I need to do. Me and my Lord will take it from there.
Well my mom went through the most aggressive chemo and radiation treatment they had. The Dr told me in private that she was unlikely to survive the treatment. When she went back 1 year after the initial diagnosis she looked at the Dr and said "Well I am back. And I will continue to be back until the Lord sees otherwise. Now do you have your affairs in order Dr?" The Dr again perplexed by the question said "Mrs May what do you mean?" "Do you know where you will go when you die? Do you know Jesus Christ? If you were told what I was told by you who would you turn to?" The Dr simply patted her on the back and walked out of the room.
My wife who works at Duke Medical Center and was present for all my moms treatments is asked all the time "How is your mother in law doing? You know she made a huge impact on Dr ____. He said he had never seen anything like her. He started going to church. He said he had to have what she had."
My mom is now cancer free. Its been five years since she was diagnosed. The only time she cried was when she lost her beautiful hair. I bought her two wigs. She refused to wear them. She said she wanted people to ask her about her hair. Their is serious power in prayer. There is serious power in persons faith.
I share this story for those who believe. For those who do not please dont let it bother you. The Dr now calls my mom on a regular basis and they have become good friends. Many times she just gives him advice on the phone. Quotes him scriptures etc. The Dr told me that he has delivered that kind of news many times and never has he had anyone react the way my mother did. He said her faith and her attitude was the difference. I dont know about all of this stuff. But I do know when your faced with death. When your faced with the tragic things that life can bring you. I want to know , I want to believe there is someone else is control. Someone that is bigger than all of us.
I hope this post does not offend anyone. If it does I apologize.
My mom looked at me as I sat there with tears streaming down my face. She looked at me and said. "Ken dont you worry about me. The Lord is in control of this. Who else would you rather have in control than him?" The Dr then looked at my mom and said "Mrs May do you understand what I am telling you?" My mom said "Dr do you have your affairs in order?" The Dr had this weird look on his face. Here is this 72 year old women looking at him with a smile on her face after being told what she was just told. The Dr said "Mrs May this is not about me. This is about you and what you need to do." My mom said "Dr you are not in control the Lord is. Just tell me what the treatment plan is and tell me what I need to do. Me and my Lord will take it from there.
Well my mom went through the most aggressive chemo and radiation treatment they had. The Dr told me in private that she was unlikely to survive the treatment. When she went back 1 year after the initial diagnosis she looked at the Dr and said "Well I am back. And I will continue to be back until the Lord sees otherwise. Now do you have your affairs in order Dr?" The Dr again perplexed by the question said "Mrs May what do you mean?" "Do you know where you will go when you die? Do you know Jesus Christ? If you were told what I was told by you who would you turn to?" The Dr simply patted her on the back and walked out of the room.
My wife who works at Duke Medical Center and was present for all my moms treatments is asked all the time "How is your mother in law doing? You know she made a huge impact on Dr ____. He said he had never seen anything like her. He started going to church. He said he had to have what she had."
My mom is now cancer free. Its been five years since she was diagnosed. The only time she cried was when she lost her beautiful hair. I bought her two wigs. She refused to wear them. She said she wanted people to ask her about her hair. Their is serious power in prayer. There is serious power in persons faith.
I share this story for those who believe. For those who do not please dont let it bother you. The Dr now calls my mom on a regular basis and they have become good friends. Many times she just gives him advice on the phone. Quotes him scriptures etc. The Dr told me that he has delivered that kind of news many times and never has he had anyone react the way my mother did. He said her faith and her attitude was the difference. I dont know about all of this stuff. But I do know when your faced with death. When your faced with the tragic things that life can bring you. I want to know , I want to believe there is someone else is control. Someone that is bigger than all of us.
I hope this post does not offend anyone. If it does I apologize.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The coach has an obligation (not moral) to make sure his underage players obey the law while in his charge.
The artical does not infer the players were under his charge. They where off the ball field at a party.
It may not be his belief to care about anyone else. Where does an obligation come from? He had no moral teachings to tell him to care or to get involved with anything not baseball..
Here's a simple question?
Where does a coach get off thinking it's his duty to teach bible study to ballplayers? If coaching baseball's his job, stick to that and let a church pastor run religion and leave it up to the family to decide that.
Where does a coach get off thinking it's his duty to teach bible study to ballplayers? If coaching baseball's his job, stick to that and let a church pastor run religion and leave it up to the family to decide that.
My wife just lost her 87yo aunt. 10 years ago she had breast cancer and won the battle. She had severe diabetes and last year was on dialysis. A few months ago she lost control of her left arm so we put her in the hospital after a fall. They found she had a brain tumor. They took her off all her treatments and she passed away Jan 31st.
AA couple weeks ago our office manager found cancer in both lungs and on her kidney. She just died.
Both were devout Christians. I could tell you hundreds of sad stories. If believing in a God works for you , you are welcome to your beliefs.
AA couple weeks ago our office manager found cancer in both lungs and on her kidney. She just died.
Both were devout Christians. I could tell you hundreds of sad stories. If believing in a God works for you , you are welcome to your beliefs.
zombywoof 100% agree with you.
Things that I want to teach that dont directly have anything to do with the game.
If your early your on time. If your on time your late. If your late dont bother coming.
Treat other people the way you would want to be treated.
Choose your friends and associates carefully.
Do not use alcohol and or drugs.
When you reach the age where you can legally drink and you choose to do so make good choices. Dont drink and drive. Dont get in a car with someone that has been drinking.
Be where your supposed to be and when your supposed to be there.
If you tell someone your going to do something , do it.
Treat your parents with respect at all times. Even if you dont think they deserve it. One day you will understand why.
Whatever you do , do it to the best of your ability. Put your name on everything you do.
There are many many more things I hope I teach. Religion is not one of them. That is personal and private in my opinion.
Things that I want to teach that dont directly have anything to do with the game.
If your early your on time. If your on time your late. If your late dont bother coming.
Treat other people the way you would want to be treated.
Choose your friends and associates carefully.
Do not use alcohol and or drugs.
When you reach the age where you can legally drink and you choose to do so make good choices. Dont drink and drive. Dont get in a car with someone that has been drinking.
Be where your supposed to be and when your supposed to be there.
If you tell someone your going to do something , do it.
Treat your parents with respect at all times. Even if you dont think they deserve it. One day you will understand why.
Whatever you do , do it to the best of your ability. Put your name on everything you do.
There are many many more things I hope I teach. Religion is not one of them. That is personal and private in my opinion.
quote:The article does not infer the players were under his charge. They where off the ball field at a party.
It may not be his belief to care about anyone else. Where does an obligation come from? He had no moral teachings to tell him to care or to get involved with anything not baseball..
That is not true otherwise there would be no obligation. He would not have to resign. So why did he resign ? It has nothing to do with a moral obligation.
zombywolf a simple answer to your question is this.
Some religions teach that it is wrong if you do not share what is called "The good news" They are commanded in their teachings to have enough concern for others that it is a duty to share. To not do so is going against what they have been brought up to believe.
As I said before there are many lessons the coach could teach in relation to team chemistry in the Bible that had it not been called a Bible study nobody would be complaining.
Coach May,
Nice I am gald everything has been positive. I could as well cite two examples similiar to yours concerning my two nephews one of which passed away at 14.
Some religions teach that it is wrong if you do not share what is called "The good news" They are commanded in their teachings to have enough concern for others that it is a duty to share. To not do so is going against what they have been brought up to believe.
As I said before there are many lessons the coach could teach in relation to team chemistry in the Bible that had it not been called a Bible study nobody would be complaining.
Coach May,
Nice I am gald everything has been positive. I could as well cite two examples similiar to yours concerning my two nephews one of which passed away at 14.
Dont agree Bobblehead who says he should care what people due after they leave the ball field? He is there to teach baseball.
He resigned because he didnt want the head aches dealing with whiney parents who felt because of their beliefs that he should be responsible to handle the raising of their kids outside of teaching baseball..
He resigned because he didnt want the head aches dealing with whiney parents who felt because of their beliefs that he should be responsible to handle the raising of their kids outside of teaching baseball..
quote:As I said before there are many lessons the coach could teach in relation to team chemistry in the Bible that had it not been called a Bible study nobody would be complaining.
You seem to miss the point. We don't want others teaching our kids those things. That is our job. Apply the rules for playing on a team and leave the parenting to the parents. If a kid needs to be disciplined for breaking one of the rules then apply appropriate punishment.
quote:Originally posted by GovernorTim:
zombywolf a simple answer to your question is this.
Some religions teach that it is wrong if you do not share what is called "The good news" They are commanded in their teachings to have enough concern for others that it is a duty to share. To not do so is going against what they have been brought up to believe.
Many of those religions are Christian based. One should remember that even Jesus, who was compelled to spread the Gospel, talked about when and where.
The question is not whether religion or a Bible study class is good or bad, right or wrong, the question is: is it appropriate for a high school coach who is in an position of authority over students, invite them a Bible study group when they are attending a school sanctioned activity. (practice)
In my distrcit it is not only inappropriate, it is grounds for dismissal.
One needn't forfeit appropriateness when one accepts the precepts of a religion.
I believe the coaching staff has a legal obligation not to host the party with the remainder of the coaching staff present. The party was held at an assistant coach's house. The coaches supplied the alcohol to the players. No whiney parents. Just livid parents. I was aware of the situation since I played Legion ball for Caldwell Post/Nova Seafood with some of the dads. I played collegiate summer ball with one. I was told the head coach's behavior was questionable when he played college ball.quote:Originally posted by GovernorTim:quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The coach has an obligation (not moral) to make sure his underage players obey the law while in his charge.
The artical does not infer the players were under his charge. They where off the ball field at a party.
It may not be his belief to care about anyone else. Where does an obligation come from? He had no moral teachings to tell him to care or to get involved with anything not baseball..
The point of bringing up this story in the first place is I was pointing out a coach, should he decide to take a moral stance with his players like the OP's coach who will teaches bible study, doesn't have the proper judgement to lead morally? What if he started a bible study (trust me he wouldn't)?
Gentlemen points taken and noted.
Although I dont agree with them I will refrain from further discussion on the topic out of respect for this baseball site. And to help end the endless cycle that religion and politics always bring.
Although I dont agree with them I will refrain from further discussion on the topic out of respect for this baseball site. And to help end the endless cycle that religion and politics always bring.
It's also wrong to keep pushing and tell a person he's going to burn in hell if he doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his savior, after the person says he's not interested because he's happy with his religion.quote:Some religions teach that it is wrong if you do not share what is called "The good news" They are commanded in their teachings to have enough concern for others that it is a duty to share. To not do so is going against what they have been brought up to believe.
I personally am not against the idea of a baseball coach having a bible study per se. You don't give up your beliefs just because you teach at a public school. Bible study is fine.
What is wrong is when he advertises it to his players. Whether he intended to or not it then becomes implied that there will be preferencial treatment to players that attend this study. If it is only open to team members than it is definately not acceptable in my book.
I am a Christian, was raised one and am proud to be one. But just as I expect non Christians to respect my beliefs I respect those of us in the world that don't believe in my religious convictions. Even if the coach was a member of my church I wouldn't allow my child to attend simply because I don't think such a prayer study was appropriate.
What is wrong is when he advertises it to his players. Whether he intended to or not it then becomes implied that there will be preferencial treatment to players that attend this study. If it is only open to team members than it is definately not acceptable in my book.
I am a Christian, was raised one and am proud to be one. But just as I expect non Christians to respect my beliefs I respect those of us in the world that don't believe in my religious convictions. Even if the coach was a member of my church I wouldn't allow my child to attend simply because I don't think such a prayer study was appropriate.
Bible study has no place on the baseball field.
It may be conveinient to have the guys already there and want to share a message, but it is just not right. There is a time and a place to share , just not after school on the ball field.
Player athletes male/female have such a structured lifestyle as it is, I know my son would say, love ya, but gotta go study, already know how to get my prayer on, thanks anyway.
It may be conveinient to have the guys already there and want to share a message, but it is just not right. There is a time and a place to share , just not after school on the ball field.
Player athletes male/female have such a structured lifestyle as it is, I know my son would say, love ya, but gotta go study, already know how to get my prayer on, thanks anyway.
Two things I wanted to comment on. Well, lets make that three.
First, we (as a country) have become far too sensitive as it pertains to being "offended" by religious views that differ from our own. If one is secure in their own beliefs, why does it matter what someone else thinks or even tells them? If someone tells you that you will burn in hell for any reason and you don't follow that particular religious belief then why let something like that effect you at all? Seems to me, the more secure you are in your own beliefs, the less something like that would or should bother you.
Second, as has been stated many times already, the issue isn't about a bible study being a good or a bad thing. The issue is the difficult situation the coach put his players in by the way he offered it. Invite his players to attend his church some Sunday and that should be the end of it. Period. You can't make it a team thing. Period
Third, this is why it is so dangerous to discuss religion OR politics. In the end, no one is right or wrong, they only have their opinions and faith which brings me back to the first point. If you are secure in your own beliefs, you shouldn't let someone else's opinion unsettle you so much.
I don't see this being a religious discussion at all although it certainly invited it. I see this as a potential inappropriate abuse of authority.
First, we (as a country) have become far too sensitive as it pertains to being "offended" by religious views that differ from our own. If one is secure in their own beliefs, why does it matter what someone else thinks or even tells them? If someone tells you that you will burn in hell for any reason and you don't follow that particular religious belief then why let something like that effect you at all? Seems to me, the more secure you are in your own beliefs, the less something like that would or should bother you.
Second, as has been stated many times already, the issue isn't about a bible study being a good or a bad thing. The issue is the difficult situation the coach put his players in by the way he offered it. Invite his players to attend his church some Sunday and that should be the end of it. Period. You can't make it a team thing. Period
Third, this is why it is so dangerous to discuss religion OR politics. In the end, no one is right or wrong, they only have their opinions and faith which brings me back to the first point. If you are secure in your own beliefs, you shouldn't let someone else's opinion unsettle you so much.
I don't see this being a religious discussion at all although it certainly invited it. I see this as a potential inappropriate abuse of authority.
quote:First, we (as a country) have become far too sensitive as it pertains to being "offended" by religious views that differ from our own.
I'm not so sure about that. Religion has always been a very powerful topic. Countries fight wars for thousands of years over religion and 9/11 happened because of so-called religion.
Perhaps thesensitivity you refer to is for example when holidays like Christmas which symbol is a christmas tree must be called a "holiday tree" so not to offend anyone. That I don't get.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
If the coach was leading a study of the koran my son would not attend and not concern himself with it having an impact on his playing time.
If you can hit, you will play.
Amen. Probably, even if you missed optional workouts because of playing a winter sport. Lots of baseball players play basketball.
A few years ago University of Georgia fired a very successful female Cheerleading Coach for conducting "voluntary" Bible Study sessions throughout the season. The practice had gone on for a number of years until a Cheerleader took exception after being released from the Squad.
You probably haven't been on the receiving end of it all your life. You probably haven't been told to leave a vacation resort when it's discovered you're Jewish. You probably haven't listened to anti-Semitic remarks in the locker room, bench/dugout, field court your entire athletic life. You probably haven't been the center of conversation at a church for herding two Jewish kids oout bof a dugout when they were being forced to pray to their savir Jesus Christ. You probably haven't had crosses painted on your house when you moved into a new neighborhood. You probably haven't had "Die dirty Jews" painted on your place of worship along with having the windows broken. You probably haven't lied lied about our religion so you want have to deal with it. You probably didn't chose another religion for your kids so they won't have to deal with it. You probably haven't had your kid bypasssed for all-stars because he's the "son of a heathen." You have no idea what it's like to be on the other side of this situation. If you think these are old circumstances one of them occurred four years ago. Another occured seven years ago. Another still occurs on a regulat basis. Sensitive? No. Tired of it. Feed up with intolerance? Yes. Some of you are so f'n blind on this subject because you're the majority.quote:If one is secure in their own beliefs, why does it matter what someone else thinks or even tells them? If someone tells you that you will burn in hell for any reason and you don't follow that particular religious belief then why let something like that effect you at all?
It is wonderful being an Atheist. No religious belief. I can look down on everyone with impunity.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
It is wonderful being an Atheist. No religious belief. I can look down on everyone with impunity.
Now that was pretty funny
Seriously, RJM - you would garner much more sympathy if you did not play the righteous-indignation card the way you do. Many of our members here believe it or not are Jewish and they don't bring these attitudes here. Believe it or not there are places in this country where Jews are in the majority and where it is an advantage to be identified that way.
I knew you were just dying to break this all out on us and it gets old. 1baseballdad made a good point. Don't let these things affect you so much. It is not good for your health. Finally, there is always someone that has it worse than you do. We all can tell personal stories of suffering from bigotry, cruelty, and mean-ness. You are not the only one affected.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
It is wonderful being an Atheist. No religious belief. I can look down on everyone with impunity.
I held back as long as I could. Then some people had to keep pushing and pushing their Christain values in this thread. One person just plain posted his religion is better. That's fine if he believes it. The statement by itself is a compelling statement of belief. But I don't want to hear it when it's intended to be in your face. The post should have been deleted as in your face.quote:I knew you were just dying to break this all out on us and it gets old.
"There are some major religions out there and they all have their leaders (Buddah, Muslin etc) but you can go to their grave sites to find their bodies but when you go to the tomb of Jesus Christ he is not there because "He has Risen"."
I really do believe this is a Christian baseball website. Christians can make whatever offensive comment they want. But I when I return my perspective, which is intended to help them see the other side, I'm condemned. YOU ABSOLUTELY DON'T GET IT. I'M NOT LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY. I'M TRYING TO EDUCATE. If someone thinks I'm looking for sympathy that's how oblivious and ignorant they are to anything not Christian.
I don't think religion has any place on a baseball board other than offering prayers for the sick and injured. But if it's going to be here in all it's ignorance I'm going to speak up. I received some PM's from some posters who haven't spoke up grateful I did.
I have complete respect for anyone's religion. The most compelling book I've read is The Shack. I started on a Saturday afternoon and didn't put it down until I finished. What I don't have respect for intolerant people who push their religion on others.
"Believe it or not there are places in this country where Jews are in the majority and where it is an advantage to be identified that way."
This is an incredibly ignorant comment in the scope of the overall country. These are enclaves of Hasidic Jews. Are you suggesting people should be segregated by religion?
I once tried religion but I got kicked out of Sunday school. I then joined the boy scouts and that lasted 2 weeks until they also said I was a disruptive force and was invited to leave.
What all this celibacy stuff? I never quite got the hang of that.
I have tried not to read much of this thread. Religion is a personal decision but... Enough already
If you don't like it leave or ignore this thread.
The same goes for the team in question. People make too much of religious discussions.
Don't go to church if you don't want to.
This country is really turned upside down....it's ok to legally marry the same *** in certain states, don't ask don't tell, etc. but God can't be brought up on a message board?
BTW
One of the biggest parts of the Christian faith is to bear witness.
If you don't like it leave or ignore this thread.
The same goes for the team in question. People make too much of religious discussions.
Don't go to church if you don't want to.
This country is really turned upside down....it's ok to legally marry the same *** in certain states, don't ask don't tell, etc. but God can't be brought up on a message board?
BTW
One of the biggest parts of the Christian faith is to bear witness.
If you don't believe what we believe, leave because you are the minority. Don't bother standing up for your religion. We don't respect your religion.quote:If you don't like it leave or ignore this thread.
RJM, it's interesting you feel others should be tollerant of you educating them, but you feel no obligation to be tollerant of them educating you. There's nothing you can point to that proves you are right and the others wrong.
Time to close it.