infielddad,
Agree with you about Candlestick. Went to a couple games there as a kid. I'm hoping to make it out to Pac Bell one of these days. My aunt has one of those plaques out there on the wall that she wanted to be her memorial and I'd like to see it someday. She was a real baseball fan making it to Arizona for spring training every year and catching every Giants and A's game she could. Her last birthday party was held at a Giants vs A's game in a luxury suite provided by another uncle whose firm owns the suite.
CADad, hope you get to do it. The Park is a gem for the fans. Just a great place to watch a game--and privately financed no less. Over the past few years I have been lucky enough to go to Camden, Wrigley, Fenway, Miller Park, PNC, St Louis and the new park in Cincy. PacBell is right with the very best.
TR and others...as to the greatness of Barry Bonds (which it may be due to steriods or not, I do not know)...as a devout Pirate fan...Barry Bonds let Pittsburgh down...against Atlanta he completely folded. He and the Pirates were the best team for a couple of years at that time and he allowed the Braves to win with his performance. As a Pirate fan...that memory will never go away. To me, he will never be great because of those losses.
To be great, if given the opportunity to win the "big" one...you need to step to the plate and do it....no matter how many home runs he has.
To be great, if given the opportunity to win the "big" one...you need to step to the plate and do it....no matter how many home runs he has.
I just read Rick Reilly's back page column in SI, and I laughed so hard, tears were streaming down my cheeks. Reilly is one of the few writers who lashes out at Bonds and does not care about what others may think.
Reilly Quote: Barry Bonds doesn't fake humility, either. Once, when asked to describe his greatness, he shrugged and said, "its called talent. I just have it. You either have it or you don't." He has it. You don't.
Reilly Quote: Barry Bonds doesn't fake humility, either. Once, when asked to describe his greatness, he shrugged and said, "its called talent. I just have it. You either have it or you don't." He has it. You don't.
You can admire the home runs and the records.
With or without steroids.
But the more important thing from the fans perspective is - you dont have to admire the man.
Barry will always be the classless self-absorbed jerk - who respects noone.
That is Barry.
The sooner he goes away - the better the game will be IMO.
With or without steroids.
But the more important thing from the fans perspective is - you dont have to admire the man.
Barry will always be the classless self-absorbed jerk - who respects noone.
That is Barry.
The sooner he goes away - the better the game will be IMO.
CADad
Caminiti and Canseco are the only self admitted steroid users I know of. Cammy's MVP year was steroid induced according to him. I don't know how long they used but neither is going to the HOF and both got in plenty of trouble with the law, something that never happened to BB.
Caminiti and Canseco are the only self admitted steroid users I know of. Cammy's MVP year was steroid induced according to him. I don't know how long they used but neither is going to the HOF and both got in plenty of trouble with the law, something that never happened to BB.
quote:
Originally posted by LATEBLOOMER:
PiC
Question:
How does a 40 year old cath up to a high 95mph fastball?
Answer:
Steriods
P.S. Played NYC H.S. Baseball 3 City Championships, and Scholarship to D1. If I took steriods it would have been Major D1
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
...well I'll take back my slow-pitch softball comment.
But in the San Francisco Chronicle today they had a table grid lay out of Bonds in comparison to Ruth, and Aaron. Mainly looked at number of Runners On Base (ROB) to HR per AB.
In every category Bonds was very comparable, sometimes slightly behind or way ahead by substantial margins in comaparison to Ruth, Aaron over the length of their careers.
What is significant is that Ruth, Aaron and Bonds all had their best years toward the end of their careers...late 30's.
I have had the pleasure of getting to see Bonds play since he was in HS as a young man, then again as a SF Giant until current day.
Yes he has changed physically, but I look at myself and I have changed over the years too. As you get older your body responds to physical training differently than it did at a younger age. Exercise will make you thicker and much heavier, whereas as a young man it gives you more of a svelte look.
Bonds looks his age...and until someone can prove he was using illegal steroids, his HOF records will never be subject to an asterisk.
quote:
Yes he has changed physically, but I look at myself and I have changed over the years too. As you get older your body responds to physical training differently than it did at a younger age. Exercise will make you thicker and much heavier, whereas as a young man it gives you more of a svelte look.
Bonds looks his age...and until someone can prove he was using illegal steroids, his HOF records will never be subject to an asterisk.
We may have all gotten heavier but your bone structure and head dont grow(only ear and nose hair grow forever).
Bonds record will be considered tainted and most likely will always be considered tainted.
This will be true even in the rare event that Bonds never took an illegal drug in his life because when historians look back at this moment in time, they will see that today’s stewards of the game of baseball had a chance to take a swing at the problem and whiffed.
The stewards of baseball were so busy watching baseballs leave the field and dollar bills entering the field that they fell asleep at the wheel. Steroid use became so prevalent and accepted that it pervaded the college and high school level baseball.
Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball did all they could do eliminate the problem? Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball wanted to find out the main attractions were cheating?
Of course not!
Baseball finally got serious when they knew that if they wouldn’t police themselves, someone else would. John McCain, the congress baseball committee's chairman, said the sport was in danger of "becoming a fraud in the eyes of the American people."
If baseball was truly serious about eliminating their dirty little secret, they could have done so any step of the way. Compare what baseball didn’t do to what the NFL did do.
The NFL did it because the league and Gene Upshaw’s players union wanted to do it. The MLB player’s union led by Donald Fehr didn’t want it to happen and therefore Bonds records will be forever tainted.
MLB reported that over 5% of their survey samples came back positive. Caminiti’s problems a few years back were well documented. "Look at all the money in the game," Caminiti said. "A kid got $252 million. So I can't say, 'Don't do it,' not when the guy next to you is as big as a house and he's going to take your job and make the money." He figured that half the players were doing something and when a lot of marginal players started showing up for spring training bigger and stronger than ever before, he’s probably not too far off.
In the middle of all the steroid use is the older but bigger and stronger version of Barry Bonds with a direct connection to Balco. With all the accusations, nothing but Bonds prevented Bonds from volunteering to be tested and prove that he wasn’t doing steroids. He instead chose to insure that his records would forever be considered tainted.
Baseball continues to cover this up, and a lot of baseball people still don’t get it or refuse want to get it. Where’s the outrage from the fans. Where’s the call for accountability?
Barry Bonds’ ability to hit a baseball is not a joke. What is a joke is how the Donald Fehr’s players union prevented baseball fans now and forever to be able to look at the accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others during this snap shot of history without having to consider that they are probably tainted.
This will be true even in the rare event that Bonds never took an illegal drug in his life because when historians look back at this moment in time, they will see that today’s stewards of the game of baseball had a chance to take a swing at the problem and whiffed.
The stewards of baseball were so busy watching baseballs leave the field and dollar bills entering the field that they fell asleep at the wheel. Steroid use became so prevalent and accepted that it pervaded the college and high school level baseball.
Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball did all they could do eliminate the problem? Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball wanted to find out the main attractions were cheating?
Of course not!
Baseball finally got serious when they knew that if they wouldn’t police themselves, someone else would. John McCain, the congress baseball committee's chairman, said the sport was in danger of "becoming a fraud in the eyes of the American people."
If baseball was truly serious about eliminating their dirty little secret, they could have done so any step of the way. Compare what baseball didn’t do to what the NFL did do.
The NFL did it because the league and Gene Upshaw’s players union wanted to do it. The MLB player’s union led by Donald Fehr didn’t want it to happen and therefore Bonds records will be forever tainted.
MLB reported that over 5% of their survey samples came back positive. Caminiti’s problems a few years back were well documented. "Look at all the money in the game," Caminiti said. "A kid got $252 million. So I can't say, 'Don't do it,' not when the guy next to you is as big as a house and he's going to take your job and make the money." He figured that half the players were doing something and when a lot of marginal players started showing up for spring training bigger and stronger than ever before, he’s probably not too far off.
In the middle of all the steroid use is the older but bigger and stronger version of Barry Bonds with a direct connection to Balco. With all the accusations, nothing but Bonds prevented Bonds from volunteering to be tested and prove that he wasn’t doing steroids. He instead chose to insure that his records would forever be considered tainted.
Baseball continues to cover this up, and a lot of baseball people still don’t get it or refuse want to get it. Where’s the outrage from the fans. Where’s the call for accountability?
Barry Bonds’ ability to hit a baseball is not a joke. What is a joke is how the Donald Fehr’s players union prevented baseball fans now and forever to be able to look at the accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others during this snap shot of history without having to consider that they are probably tainted.
quote:
We may have all gotten heavier but your bone structure and head dont grow(only ear and nose hair grow forever)
My hat size went from 7 1/4 at 22 to 7 3/4 today at 47 with my hair shorter. Plenty of physically fit men thicken well into their thirties.
Or maybe my skull had to grow to accomodate my brain.
Dad04 and Bonds!
quote:
Originally posted by SBK:
Bonds record will be considered tainted and most likely will always be considered tainted.
This will be true even in the rare event that Bonds never took an illegal drug in his life because when historians look back at this moment in time, they will see that today’s stewards of the game of baseball had a chance to take a swing at the problem and whiffed.
The stewards of baseball were so busy watching baseballs leave the field and dollar bills entering the field that they fell asleep at the wheel. Steroid use became so prevalent and accepted that it pervaded the college and high school level baseball.
Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball did all they could do eliminate the problem? Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball wanted to find out the main attractions were cheating?
Of course not!
Baseball finally got serious when they knew that if they wouldn’t police themselves, someone else would. John McCain, the congress baseball committee's chairman, said the sport was in danger of "becoming a fraud in the eyes of the American people."
If baseball was truly serious about eliminating their dirty little secret, they could have done so any step of the way. Compare what baseball didn’t do to what the NFL did do.
The NFL did it because the league and Gene Upshaw’s players union wanted to do it. The MLB player’s union led by Donald Fehr didn’t want it to happen and therefore Bonds records will be forever tainted.
MLB reported that over 5% of their survey samples came back positive. Caminiti’s problems a few years back were well documented. "Look at all the money in the game," Caminiti said. "A kid got $252 million. So I can't say, 'Don't do it,' not when the guy next to you is as big as a house and he's going to take your job and make the money." He figured that half the players were doing something and when a lot of marginal players started showing up for spring training bigger and stronger than ever before, he’s probably not too far off.
In the middle of all the steroid use is the older but bigger and stronger version of Barry Bonds with a direct connection to Balco. With all the accusations, nothing but Bonds prevented Bonds from volunteering to be tested and prove that he wasn’t doing steroids. He instead chose to insure that his records would forever be considered tainted.
Baseball continues to cover this up, and a lot of baseball people still don’t get it or refuse want to get it. Where’s the outrage from the fans. Where’s the call for accountability?
Barry Bonds’ ability to hit a baseball is not a joke. What is a joke is how the Donald Fehr’s players union prevented baseball fans now and forever to be able to look at the accomplishments of Barry Bonds and others during this snap shot of history without having to consider that they are probably tainted.
Thank you SBK,
That is one of the best posts I've ever read here at hsbbweb.
Dad04,
Does this mean that I may not be able to lose 25 lbs and be able to play "competitive" old guy tennis? Oh well, there's always golf.
Does this mean that I may not be able to lose 25 lbs and be able to play "competitive" old guy tennis? Oh well, there's always golf.
CADad
Stick with doubles.
Stick with doubles.
What's interesting to me is that we know that Bonds has an unmatched workout program - far more rigorous than anything Ruth, or Aaron, or Mays, etc. ever did. We know that Bonds has a picture perfect swing - short, straight to the ball - which he works on constantly. We also know that a number of new ballparks have been built in recent years, and that most tend to be hitter - and particularly HR - friendly.
Knowing all that, when Bonds puts up the kind of numbers he has, many people just naturally assume - it's steroids! I'm not a Giants fan, and I neither know nor care what Barry Bonds' personality is like. I don't care if he's got an entire bedroom suite in front of his locker.
The guy can hit. He can hit because he's naturally physically gifted, and he works like a maniac at being the best he can be at what he does. Personally, I doubt if he's taken 'roids (intentionally) because I think he has too much pride in his natural ability - the work he puts in is inconsistent with a "shortcut" mentality of "take a pill and be a star."
I could be wrong, but I think most people's opinions on this one reflect their own personality more than Bonds'.
Knowing all that, when Bonds puts up the kind of numbers he has, many people just naturally assume - it's steroids! I'm not a Giants fan, and I neither know nor care what Barry Bonds' personality is like. I don't care if he's got an entire bedroom suite in front of his locker.
The guy can hit. He can hit because he's naturally physically gifted, and he works like a maniac at being the best he can be at what he does. Personally, I doubt if he's taken 'roids (intentionally) because I think he has too much pride in his natural ability - the work he puts in is inconsistent with a "shortcut" mentality of "take a pill and be a star."
I could be wrong, but I think most people's opinions on this one reflect their own personality more than Bonds'.
quote:
Dad04 and Bonds!
Yes, I have a huge melon head. I'm getting a litte concerned because fitted caps only go up to 8 and I'm at the end of those adjustables.
I often wonder why Bonds' personality is always in question when Babe Ruth was said to have been a very abrasive person along with having other negative characteristics. I think some people ought to really get down to the real issue of why they dislike Bonds. Just because he places various objects in front of his locker (It's his locker.) or is not very friendly towards the media (He feels that they misquote him.)or has very high self esteem (Parents did a good job.), does not merit being disliked as a person. He is, without a doubt, one of the greatest hitters of all time. Just my humble opinion.
Catfish
I agree fully with you
The mans ego is his business as is his personality-- I also find him quite congenial when he does interviews now-- he has matured and he has admitted it
Dont we all mature sooner or later ?
As a footnote --what all his Golden Glove Awards and he is in the running again this year
I agree fully with you
The mans ego is his business as is his personality-- I also find him quite congenial when he does interviews now-- he has matured and he has admitted it
Dont we all mature sooner or later ?
As a footnote --what all his Golden Glove Awards and he is in the running again this year
SBK
You can't blame Bonds for the failures of the MLB to pass the regulation to make drugs illegal in baseball.
The player's union in their collective bargaining agreement also made it difficult for teams to effectively control the players and drug use...in example Darryl Strawberry.
There is even a more insidious drug that has had devastating effects on players and that is chewing tabacco...a filthy habit.
...and what about alchohol and excessive drinking...look at what it did to Mantle, Martin, Ruth, and so many others.
Should we put an asterisk next to Mantle's records because he admitted in his biography that he and his other drinking buddies on the Yankees use to show up at the ball park after partying all night, half-drunk and played ball any way?
When you start to go down this road of poniting fingers without relevant and concrete evidence of wrong doing it ends up destroying the game that we all love...leave it alone, unless you have proof!!!
You can't blame Bonds for the failures of the MLB to pass the regulation to make drugs illegal in baseball.
The player's union in their collective bargaining agreement also made it difficult for teams to effectively control the players and drug use...in example Darryl Strawberry.
There is even a more insidious drug that has had devastating effects on players and that is chewing tabacco...a filthy habit.
...and what about alchohol and excessive drinking...look at what it did to Mantle, Martin, Ruth, and so many others.
Should we put an asterisk next to Mantle's records because he admitted in his biography that he and his other drinking buddies on the Yankees use to show up at the ball park after partying all night, half-drunk and played ball any way?
When you start to go down this road of poniting fingers without relevant and concrete evidence of wrong doing it ends up destroying the game that we all love...leave it alone, unless you have proof!!!
All other things being equal it certainly appears that Barry used performance enhancing drugs while the Babe and Mick were stuck with the single most debilitating addiction which MOST CERTAINLY did NOT enhance their performance. In Strawberry's case one may argue that Cocaine can be an enhancer whereas marajuana is definetely NOT!
soxnole
For the uninitiated such as I please explain what you are talking about !!
Talking about Strawberry in the same post where you talk Bonds, Ruth and Mantle befuddles me
For the uninitiated such as I please explain what you are talking about !!
Talking about Strawberry in the same post where you talk Bonds, Ruth and Mantle befuddles me
quote:
Originally posted by Catfish:
I often wonder why Bonds' personality is always in question when Babe Ruth was said to have been a very abrasive person along with having other negative characteristics. I think some people ought to really get down to the real issue of why they dislike Bonds. Just because he places various objects in front of his locker (It's his locker.) or is not very friendly towards the media (He feels that they misquote him.)or has very high self esteem (Parents did a good job.), does not merit being disliked as a person. He is, without a doubt, one of the greatest hitters of all time. Just my humble opinion.
Since you asked - the issue isnt about Babe Ruth - its about Barry. Is he one of the - if not the - greatest offensive players ever? Sure.
Its pretty obvious.
And it has nothing to do with how he treats the media - or his "high self-esteem" - or what he places in front of his locker.
Rather - it has to do with his lack of respect for the game and just about everyone involved in it. 20 years of listening to his self-absorbed spew - and his on the field preening.
He typifies just about all that is wrong with the game today IMO. I cant wait until the guy is gone.
itsinthegame...I respect you a lot. However, on this one we will have to agree to disagree. I just cannot agree with you when you talk about Bonds' "lack of respect for the game and just about everyone involved in it" and that "he typifies just about all that is wrong with the game today." We're just two men who look at the same things but interpret them differently...and that's okay.
PIC,
Did you actually read my post? How did you come up with me blaming Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing?
And then you spend the rest of your post reinforcing the point that I was trying to make; the MLB player’s union can shoulder much of the blame for not taking an active role in protecting the health and well being of their players like the NFL player’s union did.
Having said this, Bonds could have voluntarily submitted himself to testing and go a long way to put an end to the speculation of his drug use that will now haunt his record for posterity.
Did you actually read my post? How did you come up with me blaming Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing?
And then you spend the rest of your post reinforcing the point that I was trying to make; the MLB player’s union can shoulder much of the blame for not taking an active role in protecting the health and well being of their players like the NFL player’s union did.
Having said this, Bonds could have voluntarily submitted himself to testing and go a long way to put an end to the speculation of his drug use that will now haunt his record for posterity.
quote:
Bonds could have voluntarily submitted himself to testing and go a long way to put an end to the speculation of his drug use that will now haunt his record for posterity.
A negative test will never satisfy anyone, including his detractors here, as they will point to masking agents, human growth hormone, other designer compounds, and the fact that roiders cycle on and off making testing inconclusive of "never using".
50 years from now everyone will have forgotten 30 years earlier that he was ever suspected of anything because it has never been, and will never be proven.
It will be forgotton long before the "Grassy Knoll"
Catfish,
No problem here. We agree to disagree.
P.S. One thing noone can deny - he is an awesome baseball player.
No problem here. We agree to disagree.
P.S. One thing noone can deny - he is an awesome baseball player.
For all you Bonds defenders:
1) The innocent until proven guilty only applies to a court of law not the court of public opinion.
2) Knowing what you know about Bonds increased homerun production since hooking up with Balco. Knowing what Balco is all about coupled with a tremendous increase in Bonds muscle mass since his association with Balco. If someone said you have to bet your life on whether Bonds ever used steroids which way would you bet.
I can't take any of those homeruns away from Bonds but I know how I would bet and the majority of the public would be betting with me. So while Bonds has not been convicted in a court of law he has been convicted in the court of public opinion. MLB and Bonds also know this and if there were a way to prove his innocence they would already have done it.
Case Closed!
1) The innocent until proven guilty only applies to a court of law not the court of public opinion.
2) Knowing what you know about Bonds increased homerun production since hooking up with Balco. Knowing what Balco is all about coupled with a tremendous increase in Bonds muscle mass since his association with Balco. If someone said you have to bet your life on whether Bonds ever used steroids which way would you bet.
I can't take any of those homeruns away from Bonds but I know how I would bet and the majority of the public would be betting with me. So while Bonds has not been convicted in a court of law he has been convicted in the court of public opinion. MLB and Bonds also know this and if there were a way to prove his innocence they would already have done it.
Case Closed!
Ah.....It's so refreshing to be surrounded by such open-minded people....
Ah.....It's so refreshing to be surrounded by such logical people....
What if Aaron, Mays, Ruth used maple bats? Noone ever talks about when Bonds broke the record that was the first year MLB allowed maple to be used.
Bonds great hitter..Yes
Bonds using steroids....maybe look at the size difference between now and rookie season. Only the people around Bonds really know!
Bonds great hitter..Yes
Bonds using steroids....maybe look at the size difference between now and rookie season. Only the people around Bonds really know!
quote:
Originally posted by SBK:
PIC,
Did you actually read my post? How did you come up with me blaming Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing?
And then you spend the rest of your post reinforcing the point that I was trying to make; the MLB player’s union can shoulder much of the blame for not taking an active role in protecting the health and well being of their players like the NFL player’s union did.
Having said this, Bonds could have voluntarily submitted himself to testing and go a long way to put an end to the speculation of his drug use that will now haunt his record for posterity.
************************************************
SBK
Your original post:
posted September 21, 2004 11:34 AM
Bonds record will be considered tainted and most likely will always be considered tainted.
This will be true even in the rare event that Bonds never took an illegal drug in his life because when historians look back at this moment in time, they will see that today’s stewards of the game of baseball had a chance to take a swing at the problem and whiffed.
The stewards of baseball were so busy watching baseballs leave the field and dollar bills entering the field that they fell asleep at the wheel. Steroid use became so prevalent and accepted that it pervaded the college and high school level baseball.
Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball did all they could do eliminate the problem? Can anyone with a clear conscience say that baseball wanted to find out the main attractions were cheating?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
In your original post the inference is that MLB didn't do anything about the drug issue because they knew that their main attractions were cheating...it's there in your last paragraph.
Logic detects by deduction that you are referring to MLB's "main" attractions, and who are they, Bonds, Sosa, and McGuire...in recent years.
All of this conjecture without one centilla of proof, just accusations by disgruntled players like Conseco and Caminiti.
Having played this game and understanding how difficult it is to hit .300 and deliver in the clutch with RBI's and HR's makes me appreciate these men for their skill and talent. Apparently those here who played this game still think they can do it better then Bonds.
Why, because their accusation presupposes that Bonds wouldn't have broken any records, except that he is on steroids...talk about a myopic perpective!
Chicks
How much of what you read in the newspaper do actually believe? Did you know that CBS News has memos discrediting the presidents military record, they got from an "unimpeachable source"?
How much of what you read in the newspaper do actually believe? Did you know that CBS News has memos discrediting the presidents military record, they got from an "unimpeachable source"?
Chicks: posted September 22, 2004 02:38 PM
Pic,
Read this and tell me what logical inference is?
Bonds
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It does not surprise me that the SF Chronicle beat writers would take such a negative approach to the Balco story.
The beat writers in SF hate Bonds and would do anything in their power to bring him down. Why, because he doesn't trust them, with good reason, and he knows that they do not have his best interest paramount to their publications.
This feud goes way back with his father, Bobby, and it started with his god-father, Willie Mays. They can't stand that these men get so much attention and accolades in comparison to those players they have anointed that they feel the public should follow and adore.
Can anyone say the words...envy, jealousy?
Pic,
Read this and tell me what logical inference is?
Bonds
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
It does not surprise me that the SF Chronicle beat writers would take such a negative approach to the Balco story.
The beat writers in SF hate Bonds and would do anything in their power to bring him down. Why, because he doesn't trust them, with good reason, and he knows that they do not have his best interest paramount to their publications.
This feud goes way back with his father, Bobby, and it started with his god-father, Willie Mays. They can't stand that these men get so much attention and accolades in comparison to those players they have anointed that they feel the public should follow and adore.
Can anyone say the words...envy, jealousy?
quote:
Originally posted by Dad04:
Chicks
How much of what you read in the newspaper do actually believe? Did you know that CBS News has memos discrediting the presidents military record, they got from an "unimpeachable source"?
Conspiracy Theory?
Pic my friend,
My reply to you was “How did you come up with me blaming Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing?”
If you read it carefully you will see that I wrote, “Bonds himself”.
Once again, I do not blame Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing; I blame MLB baseball and especially Donald Fehr and the player’s union for not addressing the problem early and aggressively. One of the reasons I believe they did not want to address this issue aggressively is because it affected at least some of the big names including Bonds.
As far as the situation as it pertains to Bonds, it looks like his records will always be considered tainted because MLB didn’t watch over the game’s long term future, instead worrying about short term damage control
Back to your hot issue, drug testing. While drug testing and DNA testing is effective to find the guilty, it is also useful to prove innocence.
With several well-documented factors leading reasonable people to believe Bonds was using steroids and if he was indeed innocent, this might have been a good time to voluntarily submit to tests.
He chose not to that’s his prerogative. Whatever reason he chose not to undergo testing, he must have felt that it was more important to him than trying to clear up the controversy.
Two things most of us can probably agree on.
1. Bonds is a heck of a hitter.
2. MLB early handling of the drug/steroid issue was poor.
My reply to you was “How did you come up with me blaming Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing?”
If you read it carefully you will see that I wrote, “Bonds himself”.
Once again, I do not blame Bonds himself for lack of MLB drug testing; I blame MLB baseball and especially Donald Fehr and the player’s union for not addressing the problem early and aggressively. One of the reasons I believe they did not want to address this issue aggressively is because it affected at least some of the big names including Bonds.
As far as the situation as it pertains to Bonds, it looks like his records will always be considered tainted because MLB didn’t watch over the game’s long term future, instead worrying about short term damage control
Back to your hot issue, drug testing. While drug testing and DNA testing is effective to find the guilty, it is also useful to prove innocence.
With several well-documented factors leading reasonable people to believe Bonds was using steroids and if he was indeed innocent, this might have been a good time to voluntarily submit to tests.
He chose not to that’s his prerogative. Whatever reason he chose not to undergo testing, he must have felt that it was more important to him than trying to clear up the controversy.
Two things most of us can probably agree on.
1. Bonds is a heck of a hitter.
2. MLB early handling of the drug/steroid issue was poor.
SBK
You just did it again...blame Bonds for the lack of "aggressive" drug testing.
You said: With several well-documented factors leading reasonable people to believe Bonds was using steroids and if he was indeed innocent, this might have been a good time to voluntarily submit to tests.
The "himself" factor is blatantly being blamed as the underlying rationale why the MLB didn't do anything about declaring drugs illegal in baseball.
Can you really believe that these men can play 162 games, plus playoffs without using the legal drugs to offset the pains and injuries they suffer.
The ball clubs inject these players with drugs to assist in healing of the bumps and bruises, rips and tears of their muscles.
It goes with the territory...a possible answer is shorten the season to the end of August, playoffs in September and World Series finished by mid October.
You just did it again...blame Bonds for the lack of "aggressive" drug testing.
You said: With several well-documented factors leading reasonable people to believe Bonds was using steroids and if he was indeed innocent, this might have been a good time to voluntarily submit to tests.
The "himself" factor is blatantly being blamed as the underlying rationale why the MLB didn't do anything about declaring drugs illegal in baseball.
Can you really believe that these men can play 162 games, plus playoffs without using the legal drugs to offset the pains and injuries they suffer.
The ball clubs inject these players with drugs to assist in healing of the bumps and bruises, rips and tears of their muscles.
It goes with the territory...a possible answer is shorten the season to the end of August, playoffs in September and World Series finished by mid October.
Chicks,
I don't know. I'm not an esteemed member of the black-socks-in-gym-class sportswriter crowd. I have heard the warning "Never do battle with a guy who buys printing ink by the barrel."
If BB is guilty of anything its that.
quote:
Conspiracy Theory?
I don't know. I'm not an esteemed member of the black-socks-in-gym-class sportswriter crowd. I have heard the warning "Never do battle with a guy who buys printing ink by the barrel."
If BB is guilty of anything its that.
quote:
Originally posted by Dad04:
Chicks,quote:
Conspiracy Theory?
I don't know. I'm not an esteemed member of the black-socks-in-gym-class sportswriter crowd. I have heard the warning "Never do battle with a guy who buys printing ink by the barrel."
If BB is guilty of anything its that.
Did you see the movie with Mel Gibson titled "Conspiracy Theory"?
PIC,
With all due respect, do you just type to see yourself type?
You have almost as many takes on drugs as Kerry does on Iraq.
I don’t say this to be mean, I really can’t figure it out.
With all due respect, do you just type to see yourself type?
You have almost as many takes on drugs as Kerry does on Iraq.
I don’t say this to be mean, I really can’t figure it out.