In PA, DUI is .08 BAC- for adults. For minors, it's .02. That's, pretty much, one beer.
quote:Some state will revoked a drivers license of a completely sober teen if anyone in the car is drunk.
Do you mean someone underage in the car is drunk? I know parents who have their kids drive them home after parties when they have been drinking. Seems like the prudent thing to do...
In AZ any BAC in a minor is DUI...
quote:Originally posted by Hawk19:quote:Some state will revoked a drivers license of a completely sober teen if anyone in the car is drunk.
Do you mean someone underage in the car is drunk?
Yes.
quote:Originally posted by 2Bmom:
To the original thread, I don't think those 7 should have been suspended either.
According to Burbank friend, students who participate in activities at the school sign an honor code. It includes not only not partaking, but also not tolerating those who do and requires them to inform school authorities if they witness violations of the code.
Frankly, I'd be the first one to advise you based on the laws regarding minors and alcohol that as a parent, you'd have to be nuts to purchase, provide or permit an underage person whatever their relationship to drink alcoholic beverages on your premises or in a place where they are considered in your care and custody.
Those that chose to risk it apparently have not looked into the glazed eyes of an intoxicated minor, broken the news of the violent death of a child in an alcohol related crash to a bleary eyed parent, witnessed the autopsy of teens who have committed suicide while drunk, visited a rehabilitation center for alcoholic teens, picked up pieces of what used to be a vibrant human being ripped to shreds in an alcohol related crash, interviewed a teen victim of sexual assault who didn't remember much due to intoxication or removed battered family members from households where alcohol was abused, to name a few.
I was probably very lucky to have lived 25 years in a fish bowl. I couldn't afford to get scuffed up over a violation of any criminal law. Had I been a plumber, well maybe I'd have passed around a few Yuengling Lagers to my kids at deer camp. But since we are what we experience, it really bothers me that a coach would do this. He might be a great guy with one act of bad judgement. If he gets arrested, which seems almost a sure bet, he'll probably never teach or coach again.
Those that chose to risk it apparently have not looked into the glazed eyes of an intoxicated minor, broken the news of the violent death of a child in an alcohol related crash to a bleary eyed parent, witnessed the autopsy of teens who have committed suicide while drunk, visited a rehabilitation center for alcoholic teens, picked up pieces of what used to be a vibrant human being ripped to shreds in an alcohol related crash, interviewed a teen victim of sexual assault who didn't remember much due to intoxication or removed battered family members from households where alcohol was abused, to name a few.
I was probably very lucky to have lived 25 years in a fish bowl. I couldn't afford to get scuffed up over a violation of any criminal law. Had I been a plumber, well maybe I'd have passed around a few Yuengling Lagers to my kids at deer camp. But since we are what we experience, it really bothers me that a coach would do this. He might be a great guy with one act of bad judgement. If he gets arrested, which seems almost a sure bet, he'll probably never teach or coach again.
INMHO, a very sad and unfortunate event. I'm very sorry this happened in my home state. The coach who bought and the players who drank got what they deserved (and probably got off easy).
I feel for the kids who didn't drink and still got suspended. What are they supposed to do, tattle? If they did and we all found out about this travisty as a result of "tattling" we'd be calling these boys out for not being good teammates and shutting up.
My own son took a 5 day suspension for using an illegal parking pass (yes, in AZ you can get 5 days for a parking pass violation). One of his teammates reported his own pass missing, got a duplicate and my kid used it as a sophomore (for four full days before the grad scheme blew up in his face) to park on campus. Illegal and we both knew it (not the penalty though). When he got caught, they offered him a walk if he gave up the kid who provided the pass. He didn't.
He made a mistake, did his time but didn't give up his teammate.
I have a problem with a tattling obligation in an honor code. I don't have a problem with firing idiots who provide alcohol to minors or the suspension of the kids who participated. The whole incident is just plain stupid and unfortunate. I do feel the boys who chose not to participate were put in a very difficult situation.
Hopefully they'll learn the ultimate lesson, "Sometimes life isn't fair and not matter what you do, its going to suck."
I feel for the kids who didn't drink and still got suspended. What are they supposed to do, tattle? If they did and we all found out about this travisty as a result of "tattling" we'd be calling these boys out for not being good teammates and shutting up.
My own son took a 5 day suspension for using an illegal parking pass (yes, in AZ you can get 5 days for a parking pass violation). One of his teammates reported his own pass missing, got a duplicate and my kid used it as a sophomore (for four full days before the grad scheme blew up in his face) to park on campus. Illegal and we both knew it (not the penalty though). When he got caught, they offered him a walk if he gave up the kid who provided the pass. He didn't.
He made a mistake, did his time but didn't give up his teammate.
I have a problem with a tattling obligation in an honor code. I don't have a problem with firing idiots who provide alcohol to minors or the suspension of the kids who participated. The whole incident is just plain stupid and unfortunate. I do feel the boys who chose not to participate were put in a very difficult situation.
Hopefully they'll learn the ultimate lesson, "Sometimes life isn't fair and not matter what you do, its going to suck."
Re: Honor Codes.
From West Point:
A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do.
While the code contains just four succinct prohibitions, cadets are expected to adhere to a commitment of standard behavior in all areas that is known as the Spirit of the Code.
If a cadet (or anyone else) suspects that a violation occurred, then she or he is expected to approach the individual to clarify what happened (this step is optional). If that approach resolves the issue; i.e., the cadet making the allegation realizes no Honor violation occurred, then the issue will be dropped. However, if the person making the allegation still believes a violation may have occurred, she or he is obligated to inform a member of the Honor Committee within 24 hours. Failure to do so is considered "toleration."
From West Point:
A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do.
While the code contains just four succinct prohibitions, cadets are expected to adhere to a commitment of standard behavior in all areas that is known as the Spirit of the Code.
If a cadet (or anyone else) suspects that a violation occurred, then she or he is expected to approach the individual to clarify what happened (this step is optional). If that approach resolves the issue; i.e., the cadet making the allegation realizes no Honor violation occurred, then the issue will be dropped. However, if the person making the allegation still believes a violation may have occurred, she or he is obligated to inform a member of the Honor Committee within 24 hours. Failure to do so is considered "toleration."
quote:My own son took a 5 day suspension for using an illegal parking pass ... When he got caught, they offered him a walk if he gave up the kid who provided the pass. He didn't.
He made a mistake, did his time but didn't give up his teammate.
He did the right thing. There's nothing worse than bring a ratfink. You take your medicine and live with it but you don't turn in your buddy in this situation. While the people involved in the drinking and the coach being wrong and stupid for trying to play buddy budy with the students, those 7 who weren't involved shouldn't have been punished for keeping quiet. They should be commended for not running their mouth. That was wrong. Let the authorities to figure it out. That's their job. Not the 7 who weren't involved.
I agree this is a sad event. The police are involved and there may be additional action taken against the coach who provided the alcohol. I think the principle set a standard that will be followed by the other districts so hopefully this does not happen again. It certainly puts coaches on notice that they are responsible even if they are not there.
I am a little perplexed by the event since, at least in my son’s away tournaments, there are lots of parents of players attending and I find it difficult that something like this could have happened without someone else noticing. I also agree that it seems like a stretch to punish the kids who knew but did not participate, they are 18 YO kids. They are already being “punished” for loosing their season, and it is particularly hard for the Sr’s.
I am a little perplexed by the event since, at least in my son’s away tournaments, there are lots of parents of players attending and I find it difficult that something like this could have happened without someone else noticing. I also agree that it seems like a stretch to punish the kids who knew but did not participate, they are 18 YO kids. They are already being “punished” for loosing their season, and it is particularly hard for the Sr’s.
Mandated reporting of unethical or illegal acts witnessed in the course of your duties as an employee is a common policy in both governmental jobs and private employ. It can be as concrete as the mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse and neglect or as vague as suspecting that a co worker has revealed details about the company's business secrets to a competitor. The duty to report misconduct is a concept that students will find pervasive in their chosen field whether it is practicing law, medicine or (don't laugh) politics. The consequences for failing to report misconduct can be as little as a written reprimand or as serious as loss of a job. There is always a document signed stating your obligations at the time of hire and it is usually kept in your personnel file for just these instances.
So it appears that Burbank Burroughs High School has done their homework, has lived up to their high standards and did many future teams a big favor. If I were any of the suspended non participants and didn't have "direct knowledge" what was going on, I would appeal before the school board and see what happens. I still think the school deserves a cookie.
If anybody finds out what brand of beer was served, I'd like to know. At least the coach could have sprung for something like "Hair of the Dog Adam".
So it appears that Burbank Burroughs High School has done their homework, has lived up to their high standards and did many future teams a big favor. If I were any of the suspended non participants and didn't have "direct knowledge" what was going on, I would appeal before the school board and see what happens. I still think the school deserves a cookie.
If anybody finds out what brand of beer was served, I'd like to know. At least the coach could have sprung for something like "Hair of the Dog Adam".
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
You take your medicine and live with it but you don't turn in your buddy...
...those 7 who weren't involved shouldn't have been punished for keeping quiet.
Come on. You're from NJ. You know how omerta works. You 'don't say nothin' and you go to jail. When you get out, you walk down the street with your head held high.
But, you still have to go to jail. That's part of the code.
If my son signed an honor code, I would expect him to be honorable and abide by it.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
You take your medicine and live with it but you don't turn in your buddy...
...those 7 who weren't involved shouldn't have been punished for keeping quiet.
Come on. You're from NJ. You know how omerta works. You 'don't say nothin' and you go to jail. When you get out, you walk down the street with your head held high.
"They couldn't turn him."
But, you still have to go to jail. That's part of the code.
You got it!!
You do what you gotta do...You know how it is..
quote:Originally posted by rz1:quote:Originally posted by CABBallFan:
rz1, are you arguing all rules and accountability should be relative and based solely on discretion of the participants involved; regardless of who those participants are and what the relationship to each participants is?
A quote from my original post....
quote:Was the coach guilty of poor judgement......absolutely.
The thread has evolved or as many might think has "dissolved" into a friendly debate on the historical issues of teenage drinking and the suppliers. I don't drink, never supplied my kids, their friends, or my players alcohol. So bottom line we're on the same page. My only point is that it happens, it happens often, and it will always happen. We are up in arms when it happens with a baseball team, and my point was that whether it was a coach or neighbor the expectations are the same in my book, but, societies view seems to be different. This is where the thread dissolved. An article that size would never make the paper if Sam the plumber took a bunch of guys camping, sat around the fire, bought a couple beers, and shot the shet. Sam, IMHO, is just a liable for the action as the coach and the only difference is that a team was involved. If the school found out about this camping trip the newspaper would ignore it and I doubt the school would raise much stink.
I sorta understand what you are trying to say but remember here, we aren't talking about a bunch of guys getting together with their boss shooting the snot and drinking some beers. There are plenty of ways to do this without doing something that is both unethical and illegal. Maybe a few joints would have gotten the kids to loosen up and chat more (I know I got pretty talkative when I smoked pot). I don't care what the motivations of the assistant coach was, in action what he did showed horribly bad decision making and obviously a blatant disregard for rules both legal and of personal conduct as a coach on the team.
Motivation means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Alcoholic beverages are illegal for adolescents for a reason. Whether the teens like it or not they are not fully developed adults and their brains don't process alcohol in the same manner as adults. That is why teens tend to get into more alcohol related accidents and incidents than comperable adults. Study after study has shown that alcohol and the teen brain are a dangerous mix. What this coach just did was legitimize the idea in these kids minds that drinking at such a young age is ok.
If this was his motivation he needs to be fired for being flat otu stupid. He could have accomplished the same thing with four or five pizzas and a couple liters of soda. All he ended up doing was completely screwing up the season for these kids and ending the coaching career of his head coach and probably the other assistants.