California Pondering 2-year Moratorium on Metal

quote:

Just to set the record straight as if anyone really cares, I should state my opinion before also being accused of holding an Easton stock portfolio....

I'd take it to a different level.

College should be wood without a doubt, right now it's ridiculous.

Select ball should police themselves, they are smart and usually consist of pre-college players anyway.

No change in LL.

And finally, HS should stay as is, with more work being done to drop that exit speed to a realistic level while maintaining an "ease of use" concept because of the differential in HS talent levels around the country. With that said, because of the disparity in in talent I feel that for the safety of the kids on the bump, regardless of the bat type, some form of head protection should be mandated for pitchers.

Amen to that. What a perfect common sense compromise all the way around. Something in there for everyone.

Go with wood in
- College
- Legion
- High School
- Babe Ruth
- Little League

Metal Bat are almost $450/ea.
And of course most kids want the latest technology
every year.

That means, wood is cheaper, life-cycle.

The trade-off in ~ 1975, was based on the economic
tradeoff, being metal bats are reuseable, thus cheaper.

Go to wood.

quote:

That's why I half-heatedly welcome the California move. After two years, we may have actual data to support one side of this issue or the other.

Jimmy, you do realize the California proposal is based on safety, right? I know you said you aren't arguing safety but you support a ban based on safety.

Forgive me if that confused me a little bit.

BTW, the last point you made to me was exactly the point I have made over and over again. There are plenty of valid reason to get metal out of the game besides safety. I am not "trying to argue" with anyone, just trying to get that point across and get people to understand the folly of involving politicians in this arena.

I just can't understand why that somehow makes me a bad guy. Pointing out what a colossal mistake it is when you bring in legislation to ban a product based on absolutely no factually information makes me a bad guy?

Can someone explain that to me please?

BTW, again I see my suggestions about PG putting something together went completely past the "ban metal at all costs crowd"

I don't understand why that is. Or maybe I do....

quote:

1baseballdad,

I noticed those suggestions. Sounds like some pretty good suggestions. What else do you want me to say?

BTW, the things I've mentioned are observations rather than evidence. And regarding that definition of anecdotal evidence given by rz...

Apologies PG, I just saw this. It isn't that I wanted you to say anything specific, I was tossing this out as something to try get us past this phase of the discussion. Heck, I don't even know if it is logistically possible but I wanted to put it out there none the less. I think it would be far more productive (if it could be done) than just going back and forth on the message board.

I would be willing to help in any way, for what it's worth.

I will say, a great point was made concerning the data gathering that is proposed to take place in the California ban. In the end, I am not sure what good it will do since they will be comparing wood vs metal that at the end of that two years, will no longer be legal to use in the first place so perhaps my suggestion to you is equally as flawed.

Like I said, just thinking out loud and desperately trying to advance this conversation past the point we are at now.

quote:

Originally posted by 1baseballdad:

quote:

That's why I half-heatedly welcome the California move. After two years, we may have actual data to support one side of this issue or the other.

Jimmy, you do realize the California proposal is based on safety, right? I know you said you aren't arguing safety but you support a ban based on safety.

Forgive me if that confused me a little bit

Read my post again. I gave the only reason that I "half-heartedly" wlecomed the moratorium which, in the words of those proposing it, is to provide a "cooling off period" time for a study.

Please don't attribute to me your interpretation of the reasons for the moratorium or my reasons for not arguing against it. I have been very clear about my position.

quote:

Moreover, which ball is likely to cause more harm? The upper deck velocity ball or the barely over the fence velocity ball? Perhaps you don't believe in physics?

ClevelanDad, I have stated over and over again that any sane rational person would not disagree with that premise to a certain degree. I believe a ball that strikes a pitcher traveling at 98 mph is going to end with the same results as a ball traveling 105. Not good at all.

The problem is, the theory (that there is a higher chance of getting hit with a ball coming off a metal bat vs wood) hasn't manifested itself into facts. I don't know why, I just know that to be the case to this date. It could be that it is such a rare occurrence to begin with that statistically, it's insignificant whether the ball is hit with wood or today's metal bat. From what I have read over the last couple of months, that seems to be the most logical explanation but again, I have no idea.

And for the record, my argument is 110% in lock step with rz1's clarification. Since he stated it far more eloquently than I have over the last few month's I am not going to add or subtract a thing from it.

You know what I find amusing?

This whole debate is focused on "metal vs wood"..

How about looking at a total ban on COMPOSITE bats?

I started playing as a kid in the 70's. By the time I was playing LL, metal bats were pretty common. I don't remember the ball going that much further. I do remember stealing Dad's electrical tape to put a grip on the aluminum (no paint just bare metal) easton bat I had. I do remember how if you hit it on the handle it hurt for a week.

I coached older teens before my son was born. Then coached him from Coach pitch all the way to 13U travel ball (currently).

I've thrown more BP pitches than I care to count.

Here's my "data"..

Composite bats are SCARY.

Check swing homeruns in LL.

Big 12's I coached hitting balls out of the HS park with small barrel composite bats.

Balls hit so hard that outfielder were barely able to react...

Keep the metal. Ban the carbon fiber, latest space technology bat. It would save money in the long run. Little Johnny's parents wouldn't spend thousands of dollars, thinking Johnny was going pro, because he was hitting 200 foot "bombs" with a -30 Nano-technology, carbon mesh rocket.

As for college ball..

I wonder where MLB, in particular those involved in player development and recruiting, think about college baseball moving to wood bats?