She's doing great. I got her again this year (she was on another team last year) and she is a hugely improved player. Still lots of bat drag which is what I'm working with her now on, but a good solid contact hitter against all but the toughest pitchers. Too much drag to hit the behomeths, but she's improving. Great attitude, great girl, fun girl. In that video you saw, she was rated around 95th out of 110 girls that year, this year in the mid-50's out of around 107.
quote:BUT i think d mac and swingbuster had the mlb swing 'model'.
"BUT i do think Richard knows what DOESNT work"
I agree! With a qualifier of FOR MLB.
quote:Originally posted by jja:
OK Bluedog,
Here is a girl I got at the beginning of practice a couple of years ago.
Now look at this swing and tell me that she needs tip and rip, separation, and the right arm action. If you notice, she's using her hands to go to the ball. No "dead hands" here.
Tom, if and when you ever get to a field, this is what you're going to have to deal with. I'm looking forward to having you help players like this succeed.
-JJA
Honestly, I think she has a lot of the things right in this clip. It looks like she needs some work on her strength, maybe some push-ups and some griping exercises, but the swing isn't really too far off, IMO. I would love to work with her, if she wanted to learn.
The issue has always been whether bat tipping is a skill to teach young ones. This is where Doug and I disagreed. The vast majority of kids I teach, basically 100%, go after the ball with their hands. Virtually none, and this includes some pretty high level players, know how to rotate their hips fully, get a proper sequencing of the upper and lower body, etc. For virtually all of these kids, bat tipping is the least of their needs. Doug was seeing lots of high level players, I'm sure all of whom knew how to rotate properly. At this stage, sure, tip and rip makes a lot of sense. But for the beginning players, it doesn't make any sense at all.
-JJA
I would agree, unless it HELPS them use their hips correctly, which is the case in some.
Let's all face it, some people will never be able to hit no matter what mechanics they use or what they are taught. It's no different than any other thing that is taught, some just can't learn and some don't want to learn.
-JJA
I would agree, unless it HELPS them use their hips correctly, which is the case in some.
Let's all face it, some people will never be able to hit no matter what mechanics they use or what they are taught. It's no different than any other thing that is taught, some just can't learn and some don't want to learn.
quote:Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The issue has always been whether bat tipping is a skill to teach young ones. This is where Doug and I disagreed. The vast majority of kids I teach, basically 100%, go after the ball with their hands. Virtually none, and this includes some pretty high level players, know how to rotate their hips fully, get a proper sequencing of the upper and lower body, etc. For virtually all of these kids, bat tipping is the least of their needs. Doug was seeing lots of high level players, I'm sure all of whom knew how to rotate properly. At this stage, sure, tip and rip makes a lot of sense. But for the beginning players, it doesn't make any sense at all.
-JJA
I would agree, unless it HELPS them use their hips correctly, which is the case in some.
Let's all face it, some people will never be able to hit no matter what mechanics they use or what they are taught. It's no different than any other thing that is taught, some just can't learn and some don't want to learn.
This is why I say,let the student,be the teacher.
I have 2 kids and I have to treat each one as individuals with what I say.Both are extremely athletic.My daughter just takes everything you say literally and tries to do it to the tee.Then she is thinking about the mechanics and not hitting the ball and then everything gets out of sequence.
Son is just the opposite.
quote:Now look at this swing and tell me that she needs tip and rip, separation, and the right arm action.
JJA, Tom has been railing about arm action for years, now........I used to argue with him because I had no idea what he was talking about....Well, now I do know what he was saying.......And, I now realize he is right...
You say the player in the video is going at the ball with her hands....I say, she is going at the ball with improper arm action.....
You will, I'm sure, teach her to connect to the shoulders and rotate......
I would teach her proper arm action.....And, yes, I would teach her to two-plane swing.......
One big difference in what I would do with her is that I would teach her throwing arm action at the same time as hitting arm action, since I believe the arm actions are the same........We would throw awhile, then hit awhile.......Throw awhile, then hit awhile.......Contrary to what you might want to believe, and you certainly may wish to ignore this, but that is how I teach young players.......
I learned to do this from Tom.....Since I learned this, I have become a much better teacher, IMO....
What bothers me is, yourself and some others will never give Tom credit for what he knows about teaching the swing.....From information I have about Tom, I would never accuse him of not working with players hands-on.....
Bluedog,
I hope you're right. It would be awfully pathetic to spend years on the internet writing pages and pages and pages of information on baseball and yet never teach a single person. It sounds like now maybe he is teaching some, but up until last year he admitted he didn't teach anyone. At least, he never disputed the claim he didn't teach anyone. With all of his knowledge, I hope he is finally putting it to good use.
No one here has any idea what I teach, so your speculation is groundless. Needless to say, anyone, no matter if you are an Epstein guy, Mankin, Hudgens, Lau, Peavy, anyone would realize that girl needs to use her body to hit. She does not need "tip and rip" at this stage of her development. That notion is ludicrous.
Finally, I don't argue with him because I "had no idea what he was talking about", but because he's wrong. I understand the issues of hands very well indeed. He can talk handle torque until he's blue in the face. There is zero evidence in support of that position. If he would like to get off that position, and just say he's a hands guy, I'll get off his case. But as long as continues to promote positions that are scientific nonsense, I'll continue to give him a hard time. Eventually, he will revise his position as the evidence is piling up so high that it's getting downright embarrassing for him. The time is coming, and not very far off.
-JJA
I hope you're right. It would be awfully pathetic to spend years on the internet writing pages and pages and pages of information on baseball and yet never teach a single person. It sounds like now maybe he is teaching some, but up until last year he admitted he didn't teach anyone. At least, he never disputed the claim he didn't teach anyone. With all of his knowledge, I hope he is finally putting it to good use.
No one here has any idea what I teach, so your speculation is groundless. Needless to say, anyone, no matter if you are an Epstein guy, Mankin, Hudgens, Lau, Peavy, anyone would realize that girl needs to use her body to hit. She does not need "tip and rip" at this stage of her development. That notion is ludicrous.
Finally, I don't argue with him because I "had no idea what he was talking about", but because he's wrong. I understand the issues of hands very well indeed. He can talk handle torque until he's blue in the face. There is zero evidence in support of that position. If he would like to get off that position, and just say he's a hands guy, I'll get off his case. But as long as continues to promote positions that are scientific nonsense, I'll continue to give him a hard time. Eventually, he will revise his position as the evidence is piling up so high that it's getting downright embarrassing for him. The time is coming, and not very far off.
-JJA
quote:.......but up until last year he admitted he didn't teach anyone.
JJA, I seriously thought you were better than this......You know your statement isn't true.....
I will say this to you and then I'm through with this....I will leave you to your antagonistic comments about me, Tom and whomever else you wish to ridicule.....
You're right, I don't know what you teach.....And, I no longer care......I'm convinced you only wish to ridicule Tom, Richard and anyone else who promotes two-plane swinging........
I'll leave you alone so that you can carry on with your agenda.......
quote:No one here has any idea what I teach,.....
Your purpose for being here is not to discuss teaching hitting by your own admittance...Then, why are you here, JJA?
Bluedog,
I'm being totally honest. Over the years, this question has been repeatedly asked, and he has never said he has had any students. This goes back tons of years.
Now if has had them, great. I stand corrected and I'll happily apologize for my comments. Hopefully we can get this straight from the good Dr. How many students has he taught over the years? Even a rough number is fine. I'll just say that for all the years we've sparred back and forth, I've never heard an answer to this question. Again, if I'm wrong, and hopefully I am, I wholeheartedly apologize. Anyone who volunteers their time to help kids get better is to be admired even if I disagree with their hitting philosophy. So again, if I'm wrong, sorry about that Tom. I sincerely mean that.
-JJA
I'm being totally honest. Over the years, this question has been repeatedly asked, and he has never said he has had any students. This goes back tons of years.
Now if has had them, great. I stand corrected and I'll happily apologize for my comments. Hopefully we can get this straight from the good Dr. How many students has he taught over the years? Even a rough number is fine. I'll just say that for all the years we've sparred back and forth, I've never heard an answer to this question. Again, if I'm wrong, and hopefully I am, I wholeheartedly apologize. Anyone who volunteers their time to help kids get better is to be admired even if I disagree with their hitting philosophy. So again, if I'm wrong, sorry about that Tom. I sincerely mean that.
-JJA
JJA-
Absolutely untrue and typical desperate misrepresentation.
I have publicly stated I have played and coached in college in woodbat and transition to metal bat era. Quit playing after freshman year to concentrate on another sport, but kept coaching
Since then I have coached off and on including fastpitch.
I can tell when something works and when it doesn't right away and I know what it looks like in person and on video.
However, as I have said, the internet is no substitute for hands on coaching with guaranteed access.
the internet is for guys like ***** who consider themselves "purveyors of information".
Trouble is that, just as in golf, if you do not apply the right filter at the right level, you just end up with lots of meaningless conflicting info.
The MLB pattern resembles overhand throw, up until a point and 2 plane golf.
It's separate upper and lower body programs that synch for stretch and fire.
It is not at all like PCR.
Keep doing your selective reading and misrepresentation. You'll still have your PCR buddies to hang out with.
Absolutely untrue and typical desperate misrepresentation.
I have publicly stated I have played and coached in college in woodbat and transition to metal bat era. Quit playing after freshman year to concentrate on another sport, but kept coaching
Since then I have coached off and on including fastpitch.
I can tell when something works and when it doesn't right away and I know what it looks like in person and on video.
However, as I have said, the internet is no substitute for hands on coaching with guaranteed access.
the internet is for guys like ***** who consider themselves "purveyors of information".
Trouble is that, just as in golf, if you do not apply the right filter at the right level, you just end up with lots of meaningless conflicting info.
The MLB pattern resembles overhand throw, up until a point and 2 plane golf.
It's separate upper and lower body programs that synch for stretch and fire.
It is not at all like PCR.
Keep doing your selective reading and misrepresentation. You'll still have your PCR buddies to hang out with.
quote:Originally posted by tom.guerry:
JJA-
Absolutely untrue and typical desperate misrepresentation.
No, it's not. Over the last few years you have given three different answers to the question about whether you work with hitters when asked directly. None have included an affirmative answer that you are applying your universal theory on hitting to any hitter in person as JJA has done with 50+ hitters over this same period of time. Tom, you know I have examples. I've seen JJA's work and it's very impressive.
quote:I have publicly stated I have played and coached in college in woodbat and transition to metal bat era. Quit playing after freshman year to concentrate on another sport, but kept coaching
True as this is part of the bio you posted at s.e.t.p.r.o. many years back prior to you being fired as a moderator.
quote:Trouble is that, just as in golf, if you do not apply the right filter at the right level, you just end up with lots of meaningless conflicting info.
I think you will find that many will agree with this and that they in fact apply it to your information, for better or worse.
Perhaps it would be easier if the question was once again asked of you, giving you a chance to provide a direct answer:
Tom, in the last two years, have you worked with any youth hitter in person either on a one on one basis or as a coach of a youth team at any level?
FOFOF -
Where you been.
Re-enforcements needed.
PCR hull breach imminent.
Red alert.
Round up the mouthpieces.
How many have you and Stevie locked in to non MLB mechanics in the last 2 years ?
It is indeed a tangled web.
Where you been.
Re-enforcements needed.
PCR hull breach imminent.
Red alert.
Round up the mouthpieces.
How many have you and Stevie locked in to non MLB mechanics in the last 2 years ?
It is indeed a tangled web.
I'm just passing through Tom. I won't be staying long. What peeked my interest was your comment that JJA was misrepresenting you/your position on your time coaching. It stood out to me, as i said, because it didn't really jive with the history of the question.
Sooo...
Perhaps it would be easier if the question was once again asked of you, giving you a chance to provide a direct answer:
Tom, in the last two years, have you worked with any youth hitter in person either on a one on one basis or as a coach of a youth team at any level?
Sooo...
Perhaps it would be easier if the question was once again asked of you, giving you a chance to provide a direct answer:
Tom, in the last two years, have you worked with any youth hitter in person either on a one on one basis or as a coach of a youth team at any level?
quote:Originally posted by tom.guerry:
FOFOF -
Where you been.
Re-enforcements needed.
PCR hull breach imminent.
Red alert.
Round up the mouthpieces.
How many have you and Stevie locked in to non MLB mechanics in the last 2 years ?
It is indeed a tangled web.
"Tom, in the last two years, have you worked with any youth hitter in person either on a one on one basis or as a coach of a youth team at any level?"
I would point out that Bluedog also has not answered this question, and does not respond to challenges on this very point.
I would point out that Bluedog also has not answered this question, and does not respond to challenges on this very point.
fofofo/mouthpiece #3 -
Yes.
BB-
I'm not misrepresenting unless it's been "revised".
In any case you are not allowed to discuss it because it's a secret.
If something does not work, I agree it's better to keep it secret and call it "intellectual property".
Right fofofo ?
Read Dixon.
Go to EH.com.
Look at video, but you can only see what Stevie tells you you can see.
Or N$man.
Watch out for N@man jr
Yes.
BB-
I'm not misrepresenting unless it's been "revised".
In any case you are not allowed to discuss it because it's a secret.
If something does not work, I agree it's better to keep it secret and call it "intellectual property".
Right fofofo ?
Read Dixon.
Go to EH.com.
Look at video, but you can only see what Stevie tells you you can see.
Or N$man.
Watch out for N@man jr
Tom, how can they believe the kid in the video can't be helped tremendously, and immediatley, with a lesson in proper arm action?....Unless, of course, they don't know proper arm action....Could it be?
quote:I would point out that Bluedog also has not answered this question, and does not respond to challenges on this very point.
BB, you also said:
quote:If you don't wish to look at what Steve offers and/or knows, that's your choice.
Haven't been around long, I see......
Go back for some years and read....You've got some catching up to do....
bluedog - "Haven't been around long, I see......A newbie!!
Go back for some years and read....You got some catching up to do...."
Still avoiding the question, huh? I may be a newbie on this board, but I've already figured out who the pretenders are, and I'm familiar with Tom from other boards.
Tom - "I'm not misrepresenting unless it's been "revised"."
If you believe that, you really don't understand pcr.
Go back for some years and read....You got some catching up to do...."
Still avoiding the question, huh? I may be a newbie on this board, but I've already figured out who the pretenders are, and I'm familiar with Tom from other boards.
Tom - "I'm not misrepresenting unless it's been "revised"."
If you believe that, you really don't understand pcr.
quote:If you believe that, you really don't understand pcr.
Yep, you've got alot of catching up to do....Start reading!
OK, been at the kids' games. Have missed much of this. We'll put an end to this now since both sides have fired warning shots over each other's bows. In the future, I'm going to ask that when we make contributions to various topics that we address the topic. Shots at either side will result in deleted posts.
Enough is enough! Let's talk hitting and what we see. Let's be sure to address those issues in posts. When it comes to attacks, you're time here will be short lived per the membership agreement.
Enough is enough! Let's talk hitting and what we see. Let's be sure to address those issues in posts. When it comes to attacks, you're time here will be short lived per the membership agreement.
