Chris Sale suspended for destroying team equipment

I can't think of one place of employment where you would not be suspended or fired for destroying another person's property.  BTW, who made him the spokesman for outrage against throw back uniforms?  He threw a tantrum and now, has to put on his big boy pants and suffer the consequences. 

I am going to take another stance on this.

This wonderful game of baseball is all about business and it isnt pretty. 

I think his anger is misplaced.  He IS also property of the team. He is not his own man and wont be until free agency.  It has to be pretty frustrating to hear you might be traded when you have no say in the matter.  Wait, I take that back, it just plain sux.

I know we dont understand this.  But we have to remember that these are men trying to do their job while being treated like commodities.  

Or maybe he is giving them more reason to trade him. Obviously he doesnt see eye to eye with management.

Sources say that players had some issues with the heavy throwback jerseys they were required to wear saturday.  The jerseys were coordinated with a giveaway.

I guess Sale felt management couldnt care less about how the players felt playing in the uncomfortable jerseys and put that above winning so he would do something about it.

Sounds like a Chris Sale move but IMO there is a lot more to it.

They where hardly "throwback" uniforms.  They where from the 1970's.  They deserved to be cut up.  If I forced you to wear your old 1970's clothing, you'd react the same way. 

I think it goes back to a dysfunctional clubhouse/management relationship.  Back to the clubhouse being split with the LaRoche issue to start the year.  Most likely back many years.  Just a poorly run organization.

Golfman25 posted:

They where hardly "throwback" uniforms.  They where from the 1970's.  They deserved to be cut up.  If I forced you to wear your old 1970's clothing, you'd react the same way. 

You are right they replaced them with 1983 throwbacks!

What an idiot promo!

This is the (1976) uniform he didn't want to wear. This is the same uniform they sometimes matched with shorts. I believe it's 70s week in MLB. A few days ago the Red Sox and Giants wore mid 70s unis.

 Today Jerry Remy (analyst) asked Dave O'Brien (play by play) how he would feel if NESN told him to show up for work dressed like it's the 70s. 

I wonder if they are lightweight like their current uniforms or heavy? Being a pitcher trying to perform with a heavy uniform soaked in sweat would be cumbersome to say the least. Miserable. 

I played ball in the 70s.  I didn't realize I was that tough having to wear those horrendous uniforms.  LOL  The good think is, Sale can take his considerable talents somewhere else when his contract is up.  He can also ask to be traded. 

CoachB25 posted:

I played ball in the 70s.  I didn't realize I was that tough having to wear those horrendous uniforms.  LOL  The good think is, Sale can take his considerable talents somewhere else when his contract is up.  He can also ask to be traded. 

Me, too.  Well, I was on a team, and got to wear a uniform.  Makes me think that if I could have worn this new stuff Sale gets to wear, I would have been awesome.

Current CBA has a stipulation that players will cooperate with all reasonable marketing efforts of the club.  Sale clearly in the wrong, even if the uni was a 1900's wool uniform with pink elephants on it.  But White Sox Management/Player relationship has been toxic for awhile.  This could have been easily avoided.

If the players association wants to change that cooperation clause next go round, I'm sure owners would be happy to have another year of player control.

Man, I sure find it hard to feel sorry for a guy who "feels like he's being treated like a commodity" while he makes $6+ million a year and only has to perform once every 5 days for 7 months a year. Boy, life is hard. I don't know how he feeds his family...

Yes, to some extent this is MLB's fault. They have some of the stupidest uniform policies possible. Baseball needs to move to NFL uniform rules. Limit this nonsense.

But it sounds like the White Sox enjoy having clubhouse problems... they've had a lot of them this year...

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/s...dues-policy-2-072416

Bulldog 19 - I was with you until the part about the NFL.  The Pittsburgh Steelers have been rolling out some of dopiest throwback uniforms I've ever seen.  The Packers are right there with them.  I am sure I am forgetting someone else as well.

ClevelandDad posted:

Bulldog 19 - I was with you until the part about the NFL.  The Pittsburgh Steelers have been rolling out some of dopiest throwback uniforms I've ever seen.  The Packers are right there with them.  I am sure I am forgetting someone else as well.

CD, the difference is NFL teams are limited on their throwback uniforms. Here's an article from 2014, and I believe much of these policies are still in play today..

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_...dely-uniform-culture

Meanwhile, the D-Backs have sported what about 10 different uniforms already this year? 

D'backs dark gray unis are not my favorite. Hide the dirt tho. Bet whoever does their laundry likes 'em. 

Maybe he told management that he didn't want to pitch in the jersey because it wouldn't allow him to be at his best? Maybe he got poed because he feels like they are more concerned with PR stuff than winning games? Maybe this is a sign of his tremendous competitive nature?

And yes he should be suspended for his actions. There are some frustrations and issues here that go deeper than just a uniform.

Read that white Sox pitchers always choose  which jersey they prefer.  Management told Sale they had to wear that uniform because of a promo. 

Its kind of hard to understand why management would treat the face of their franchise that way.  All he wants to do is win, yet it seems like they couldnt care less.

I agree that this is much deeper than just about a uniform, he needs to be on a team that appreciates his competitive drive and desire to win above all else.

Go44dad posted:

I think it goes back to a dysfunctional clubhouse/management relationship.  Back to the clubhouse being split with the LaRoche issue to start the year.  Most likely back many years.  Just a poorly run organization.

 

I agree Go44Dad.  This is more than wearing a stupid uniform; it is mostly about respect.   Clearly, Chris Sale doesn't think highly of his front office and realize that there is more to baseball (....I've heard it is a business.....) than putting 9 guys on a field and let'm go at it.  Does anyone on this board think their boss is an idiot?  If so, raise your hand.   That is a lot of hands.  

Chris Sale crossed the line, and did not do what he was asked to do by management.  He is labor whether he likes it or not, and that is why they have a collective bargaining agreement.  If Chris Sale didn't like it, he could have handled this better and more professionally.  JMO

Look, baseball is a business. Marketing is a big part of that business and is a cog in the wheel that allows the kind of money that can pay players multi-million dollar yearly salaries.

I could see how he might feel justified in cutting up his own Jersey, or maybe even calling in sick as a protest to the Jerseys, but he cut up DOZENS of Jerseys....we are now in temper tantrum territory. 

Ok- I'll stick with the throw-back theme. Sale's actions will have him packing his bags by month's end and riding off the (Robin) Ventura Highway.

His punishment should have been to wear the '76 uniform with the shorts for the remainder of the season. And put Ken Williams in a leisure suit.

Ok, I'm not a pro and not even close.  When I was playing in a "semi pro league," we had our uniforms "stolen."  Our uniforms were blue.  So, the league said that we could play our Sunday DH but we did have to wear blue.  Many of us had Blue's jerseys.  (Hockey Blues)  So, we wore them.  I thought how stupid we looked wearing hockey jerseys but we played and we played well.  You bet they were bulky and uncomfortable.  ITS A JERSEY!  It is not your competitive nature.   BTW, thank goodness our uniforms were misplaced and not stolen.  Sale messed up. 

Oh, I thought that I'd report this year to my classroom in shorts.  Why not?  The PE Teachers get to wear them.  I'll wear the shorts and one of my tee shirts.  My boss won't care.  LOL

I will say this: IF Sale's decision was because of his competitive nature, as others above have suggested it might have been, then I just chalk it up to being another example of how different athletes in an incredibly competitive environment like that are from someone like me. Think of the sustained, frenzied energy it would take to cut up ALL the jerseys.  I didn't look for one, but it would be interesting to get an eyewitness report of the event.  Were his eyes bugging out?  Was he cool and calm and methodical?  Did he have an audience that encouraged him, chanting  rhythmically "CUT THEM! CUT THEM! CUT THEM TO SHREDS!"

Had he had a bad day otherwise?  Ordered his breakfast eggs over medium but they were still too runny?

This was beyond the pale but professional athletes LIVE beyond the pale.

Just a thought.

CaCO3Girl posted:

I could see how he might feel justified in cutting up his own Jersey, or maybe even calling in sick as a protest to the Jerseys, but he cut up DOZENS of Jerseys....we are now in temper tantrum territory. 

At $500,000 per start?

CoachB25 posted:

I can't think of one place of employment where you would not be suspended or fired for destroying another person's property.  BTW, who made him the spokesman for outrage against throw back uniforms?  He threw a tantrum and now, has to put on his big boy pants and suffer the consequences. 

This wasn't his first incident with his club, in spring he slammed the club president publicly because he banned la roches kid from the clubhouse. He either is a trouble maker or trying to force a trade.

smokeminside posted:

I will say this: IF Sale's decision was because of his competitive nature, as others above have suggested it might have been, then I just chalk it up to being another example of how different athletes in an incredibly competitive environment like that are from someone like me. Think of the sustained, frenzied energy it would take to cut up ALL the jerseys.  I didn't look for one, but it would be interesting to get an eyewitness report of the event.  Were his eyes bugging out?  Was he cool and calm and methodical?  Did he have an audience that encouraged him, chanting  rhythmically "CUT THEM! CUT THEM! CUT THEM TO SHREDS!"

Had he had a bad day otherwise?  Ordered his breakfast eggs over medium but they were still too runny?

This was beyond the pale but professional athletes LIVE beyond the pale.

Just a thought.

To act as quickly as Sale did he was probably also running with scissors. This all Bill Veeck's fault for coming up with these inane 1976 uniforms in the first place.

Dominik85 posted:

CoachB25 posted:

I can't think of one place of employment where you would not be suspended or fired for destroying another person's property.  BTW, who made him the spokesman for outrage against throw back uniforms?  He threw a tantrum and now, has to put on his big boy pants and suffer the consequences. 

This wasn't his first incident with his club, in spring he slammed the club president publicly because he banned la roches kid from the clubhouse. He either is a trouble maker or trying to force a trade.

It's not about kids in the clubhouse and throwback uniforms. It's about Ken Williams.

"It’s possible ringleader Sale just despises Williams and feels bulletproof, being a lefty with a 98  mph bullwhip. He probably is, too. Baseball executives can fall out of trees; not so with naturals."

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sp...-williams-runs-deep/

In the sox opening series with the Mariners, the White Sox players refused to pay the visiting clubhouse manager b/c they didn't like that some of the money went through a Mariners team account before being distributed.  I doubt they understood what "account" meant.  

White Sox clubhouse is poison.  Sale is detached from reality.  They need to clean house on both players and management.

Go44dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I could see how he might feel justified in cutting up his own Jersey, or maybe even calling in sick as a protest to the Jerseys, but he cut up DOZENS of Jerseys....we are now in temper tantrum territory. 

At $500,000 per start?

And he's missing how many starts now......?????

Just so y'all know, I've got a very sharp pair of scissors, and I'm going to be cutting up any uniforms I run into today to protest the Chapman deal.

What job can anyone go to where they are allowed to throw their equipment against a wall when removed from a case, and beat a gatorade cooler half to death when they lose a deal?   Football and basketball players and hockey players are guilty too.  In what job are you allowed to come to blows with others?  That's work place violence.  Athlete's need to realize that their job is exactly the same as being an accountant or a teacher.  No difference. 

I think it might be time that we quit trying to pretend that being a professional athlete is the same as being a car salesman.    They aren't just employees or labor.  They're vital cogs in the business.    If you reach professional levels in the working world no one makes you dress up in a chicken suit to get paid, and if they did you'd object.  I'm not talking about someone paying you 6mm to dress like a chicken.  I'm talking about your having a high demand skill and someone still wants you to dress like barnyard fowl.  You want to be respected for what you bring to the table.  Dressing people like clowns, or being heavy handed about what they have to wear and other non-essential matters is disrespectful of the players/employees/partners.

The White Sox management could use a bit of perspective.  If I were sale, I'd have Nolan Ryan serve as a player rep.  I think he could beat a little sense into management's head.

smokeminside posted:

I will say this: IF Sale's decision was because of his competitive nature, as others above have suggested it might have been, then I just chalk it up to being another example of how different athletes in an incredibly competitive environment like that are from someone like me. Think of the sustained, frenzied energy it would take to cut up ALL the jerseys.  I didn't look for one, but it would be interesting to get an eyewitness report of the event.  Were his eyes bugging out?  Was he cool and calm and methodical?  Did he have an audience that encouraged him, chanting  rhythmically "CUT THEM! CUT THEM! CUT THEM TO SHREDS!"

Had he had a bad day otherwise?  Ordered his breakfast eggs over medium but they were still too runny?

This was beyond the pale but professional athletes LIVE beyond the pale.

Just a thought.

You do know that most pitchers are crazy right!?

TPM posted:

smokeminside posted:

I will say this: IF Sale's decision was because of his competitive nature, as others above have suggested it might have been, then I just chalk it up to being another example of how different athletes in an incredibly competitive environment like that are from someone like me. Think of the sustained, frenzied energy it would take to cut up ALL the jerseys.  I didn't look for one, but it would be interesting to get an eyewitness report of the event.  Were his eyes bugging out?  Was he cool and calm and methodical?  Did he have an audience that encouraged him, chanting  rhythmically "CUT THEM! CUT THEM! CUT THEM TO SHREDS!"

Had he had a bad day otherwise?  Ordered his breakfast eggs over medium but they were still too runny?

This was beyond the pale but professional athletes LIVE beyond the pale.

Just a thought.

You do know that most pitchers are crazy right!?

Yes, but even "Spaceman" Bill Lee would never wear something as silly as that White Sox uniform!

Teaching Elder posted:

What job can anyone go to where they are allowed to throw their equipment against a wall when removed from a case, and beat a gatorade cooler half to death when they lose a deal?   Football and basketball players and hockey players are guilty too.  In what job are you allowed to come to blows with others?  That's work place violence.  Athlete's need to realize that their job is exactly the same as being an accountant or a teacher.  No difference. 

I think it might be time that we quit trying to pretend that being a professional athlete is the same as being a car salesman.    They aren't just employees or labor.  They're vital cogs in the business.    If you reach professional levels in the working world no one makes you dress up in a chicken suit to get paid, and if they did you'd object.  I'm not talking about someone paying you 6mm to dress like a chicken.  I'm talking about your having a high demand skill and someone still wants you to dress like barnyard fowl.  You want to be respected for what you bring to the table.  Dressing people like clowns, or being heavy handed about what they have to wear and other non-essential matters is disrespectful of the players/employees/partners.

The White Sox management could use a bit of perspective.  If I were sale, I'd have Nolan Ryan serve as a player rep.  I think he could beat a little sense into management's head.

I liked your post very much.

Employees want to be treated with respect. Whether you make 9,000 or 9 million.  I understand that many feel he should have shut up and worn the uniform, which has been perceived as a costume, they just want to go out and do their job and like most of us, want to do it with no BS involved.

Sale has worked pretty hard to get where he is, IMO he deserves a lot more than this organization seems willing to give.

As far as raising the money needed with these ridiculous dress up promotions, work on putting together a winning team so people will come to watch or get a lucrative cable/network deal like other teams do.

CoachB25 posted:

Ok, I'm not a pro and not even close.  When I was playing in a "semi pro league," we had our uniforms "stolen."  Our uniforms were blue.  So, the league said that we could play our Sunday DH but we did have to wear blue.  Many of us had Blue's jerseys.  (Hockey Blues)  So, we wore them.  I thought how stupid we looked wearing hockey jerseys but we played and we played well.  You bet they were bulky and uncomfortable.  ITS A JERSEY!  It is not your competitive nature.   BTW, thank goodness our uniforms were misplaced and not stolen.  Sale messed up. 

Oh, I thought that I'd report this year to my classroom in shorts.  Why not?  The PE Teachers get to wear them.  I'll wear the shorts and one of my tee shirts.  My boss won't care.  LOL

Coach, I gotta say... this whole "shorts and a t-shirt" thing is pretty nice!  

Bulldog 19 posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Ok, I'm not a pro and not even close.  When I was playing in a "semi pro league," we had our uniforms "stolen."  Our uniforms were blue.  So, the league said that we could play our Sunday DH but we did have to wear blue.  Many of us had Blue's jerseys.  (Hockey Blues)  So, we wore them.  I thought how stupid we looked wearing hockey jerseys but we played and we played well.  You bet they were bulky and uncomfortable.  ITS A JERSEY!  It is not your competitive nature.   BTW, thank goodness our uniforms were misplaced and not stolen.  Sale messed up. 

Oh, I thought that I'd report this year to my classroom in shorts.  Why not?  The PE Teachers get to wear them.  I'll wear the shorts and one of my tee shirts.  My boss won't care.  LOL

Coach, I gotta say... this whole "shorts and a t-shirt" thing is pretty nice!  

It would be ugly.  I'd type here what I used to say to the baseball boys about ugly but I'd get in trouble. 

Coach, I actually sent Coach Vogel a text this year because we always gave him a hard time about his shorts and a t-shirt as he sent his junior high PE kids to walk the track. "Rough life teaching JH track!" So this spring, when I had to sub for our PE teacher and sent the kids outside to do their own workout, while I stood there in shorts and a t-shirt getting paid extra to do it...

Heck, I'm one of the very few who are allowed to dress casual in the classroom. Our male teachers are expected to wear a shirt and tie. I often wear golf slacks and either a polo or a short-sleeve jacket  

TPM posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

What job can anyone go to where they are allowed to throw their equipment against a wall when removed from a case, and beat a gatorade cooler half to death when they lose a deal?   Football and basketball players and hockey players are guilty too.  In what job are you allowed to come to blows with others?  That's work place violence.  Athlete's need to realize that their job is exactly the same as being an accountant or a teacher.  No difference. 

I think it might be time that we quit trying to pretend that being a professional athlete is the same as being a car salesman.    They aren't just employees or labor.  They're vital cogs in the business.    If you reach professional levels in the working world no one makes you dress up in a chicken suit to get paid, and if they did you'd object.  I'm not talking about someone paying you 6mm to dress like a chicken.  I'm talking about your having a high demand skill and someone still wants you to dress like barnyard fowl.  You want to be respected for what you bring to the table.  Dressing people like clowns, or being heavy handed about what they have to wear and other non-essential matters is disrespectful of the players/employees/partners.

The White Sox management could use a bit of perspective.  If I were sale, I'd have Nolan Ryan serve as a player rep.  I think he could beat a little sense into management's head.

I liked your post very much.

Employees want to be treated with respect. Whether you make 9,000 or 9 million.  I understand that many feel he should have shut up and worn the uniform, which has been perceived as a costume, they just want to go out and do their job and like most of us, want to do it with no BS involved.

Sale has worked pretty hard to get where he is, IMO he deserves a lot more than this organization seems willing to give.

As far as raising the money needed with these ridiculous dress up promotions, work on putting together a winning team so people will come to watch or get a lucrative cable/network deal like other teams do.

 

I don't really agree with that. The White sox are not the only Team that uses those (admittedly terrible) uniforms. I think it is even part of the General Marketing strategy of MLB. Yeah MLB is about winning but first of all it is an entertainment Business. In many Jobs you have to wear coorporate clothing, a McDonalds employee can't say I don't feel like wearing that uniform.

Yes those unis are ugly and I don't Need them either but the White sox pay him and they get to say what uniform he wears, pretty simple.

I would give sale the benefit of doubt but after the la roche incident where sale slammed the front Office I don't really believe it is about the uniforms.

Still the White sox are a badly run Organisation. BTW I think the Problem is not the Organisation giving not enough. In contrary I believe the Problem is that their old owner wants to win another Championship before he dies and thus he wants to Patchwork a winning Team despite having a lot of holes in the Team.

The White sox are still in a solid Position with the assets they have. they should go full rebuild. If they trade sale, Quintana and abreu plus maybe eaton they would have one of the best farm Systems in the history of the game (at least as good as the cubs 2 years ago) and could start all over again.

however with their owner I don't think that will happen so they continue to Patchwork their way to a .480 record. they will probably end up like the phillies two years ago: no farm System and a lot of bad contracts that can't be traded.