Chronicles from DTiger

I like this one.............

quote:

On the question if the individual lessons learned are more important than team lessons: I think that individual lessons are more important IF IF IF IF (did I stress it enough) they are done in order to help the team.

Haha I'm 16... and lack imagination. I'll talk for days if you give me a topic. Ask away.

Ok, your first assignment.........

In reference to your situation, what are the important things to ponder over when starting a new season with a team.

In regards to........

1. High School
2. Summer ball

This is an interesting one because the situations are so different from high school to summer ball. I can really only speak on how I approached the past season in high school and summer because I really am not sure what to expect of the team this coming year.

In regards to high school:

Since it is the beginning of the general baseball season (high school and summer) I like to pick 2-3 things that I want to improve. That can be a pitch, hitting in certain situations, or fielding techniques, etc. Here are some things I wanted to improve this past season: hitting (especially with runners on third), lateral movement in the field (mostly to my right), from that lateral movement-being able to plant and release faster with adequate velocity, and improve general speed. Along with my hopefuly improvement, I like to set goals as related to my team. My general thought on this subject is hope for the best, be ready for the worst, and expect something in the middle. Going into my first season on varsity I didn't expect to make playoffs because I knew we were in a tough district. But don't get me wrong, I expected to win every game. Baseball can be a rollercoaster, I try not to get too high or get too low. Losing was tough, it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, and it was unfortunately something I became all too familiar with. The thing I did expect though at the beginning was for the team to fight their hardest, and we did. We came back and only missed playoffs by 1 spot (and I THINK 1 game). That struggle to come back was one of those "smaller" battles. We knew we were mathematically out of it, but we fought and it shows character. Overall my HS season was a positive one. I know I preached learning how to win, but one must learn how to lose. I firmly believe there is a right and wrong way to lose a game. Learning to lose means learning to hate it, yet at the same time learning to take the mistakes made in the game and improve upon them. Some kids will be on a loser team and blame eachother, blame umpires. Here's a famous quote for ya: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in the stars, but rather within ourselves." I heard of that in a class, but I apply it to every loss. It's normal to be frustrated with a bad call, or disapointed that Johny couldn't make the play, but they were trying to do the right thing. I know this is cliche, but the only true loss in a developing players carreer (which is always) is a loss not learned from.

Summer ball:

Expectations for the Tigers are always high. I extend my pre-season goals. Sometimes the biggest struggle with summer ball (for me) is not winning, is not playing well, but is remembering I'm a kid. The expectations can get so high that the pressure overwhelms at times. The things any kid ballplayer is expected to do day in day out are the same things the pros struggle with. Nowhere else in society do people get mad if a kid can't throw it into a tiny zone. Summer ball is the more competitive season-for me-but it is necessary to remember that it's for fun.

Folks, can you believe this?

I am simply amazed. I know I keep saying this but...........geez. Are we serious here?

DTiger, I am looking forward to this for many posts to come.

For tonight, I sign off with this for you as Ed Napoleon "Nappy" (Old Rangers first base coach told me all the time) says.......................

"You can't stay up with the owls and fly with the eagles."

Good night young man. I look forward to your next chronicle.

You two should get together for a beer.

I'M KIDDING!!!!

No response necessary, KM.

This deserves a response PD... I just can't think of one.

I have been told by Dtiger that he wants to go to an Ivy League school like Harvard. I can see by his ability to express his thoughts so well on this site that he definitely can handle a school like that. I wish him the best of luck on his quest to further not only his athletic pursuits, but also his academics. We are blessed to have him giving us his insights from a player's perspective. Thank you Kyle!

But...but...but...remember his first few posts?

I owe many thanks to PD for setting me straight.

Next assignment.....

DTiger -- have you been asked to throw at a kid(s)? If so, what was the situation? Did you do your "job"? How did/do you feel about it?

I am most impressed with your spelling and punctuation. Many of the players' posts require a lot of deciphering. Your ability to create a coherent sentence puts you miles ahead of the others. I hope there are no typos in my post!

Total Texas Baseball
All Baseball • All Texas • Just Baseball • Just Texas
totaltexasbaseball.com


Maybe you should think about hireing this young man to write for your magazine.

Me personally, no.

I have personally witnessed a coach telling a kid to hit another 1 time that I can remember.

The situation: A kid we were facing had previously hit 2 of our kids when a left handed pitcher of ours steps to the plate (he was pitching that game). The kid nailed him right in the left arm (he bats from the right side). That made our coach mad but the kid laughed about it the whole entire time our kid walked to first base (laughed at our player). Coach took offense and explained that he didn't feel the kid hit our player on purpose, but laughing directly at a kid after hitting them is unacceptable. He asked the kid who was pitching if he'd be OK with it and that he understood no one was forcing him to. I think there was no force in the request because the kid who got hit was pitching. There tends to be a little more... firmness in the request when it's sticking up for another teammate. The next inning the first batter got one right in the ribs.

In general I don't like it. Too many times kids let their egos get in the way and will hit someone on purpose without a coaches instruction. In this instance coach gave the explaination and specificly warned against trying to cause harm. He instructed nothing above the letters. I, and the team, I would say were OK with this instance. If a kid was ever told by a coach to hit someone without a substantial reason, I would have no choice but to step in. Simple lesson, don't laugh at a kid you hit, especially when he's pitching.

Baseball in general should be able to live without this aspect of the game, but unfortunately it's apart of the game and it sometimes proves itself necessary.

I'd also like to point out that was 1 time in a long season.

It is a facinating aspect of the game. I agree that baseball would be fine without it....but it's there and causes many emotions. I doubt that the coaches here will want to share their views on the subject. Coach V is correct though.....baseball never forgets.

I never asked a pitcher to hit another in 18 seasons of High School ball. After one was hit, I would ask our pitcher when he came in if he plunked him and got many responses. It was never ordered.

But I imagine you taught them when it might be considered "appropriate". The kids can take care of things themselves with a little guidance along the way -- that way they don't have to be told to do it in an emotional moment. I had to laugh a few weeks ago.....we had a guest player with us that really knows how the game is played.........he hit a kid on his own because the kid came to the plate wearing sun glasses and mouthing a toothpick!

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
we had a guest player with us that really knows how the game is played.........he hit a kid on his own because the kid came to the plate wearing sun glasses and mouthing a toothpick!

lol

Ok DTiger, hopefully you don't expect much from me during the day. This fat boy has to work sometime.

Next item up for bids..................

How important is it to you as a player what the physical appearance is of you and your team?

1. Uniform
2. Organization of team members and coaches
3. Pre-game attire
4. Post game appearance

You know, what you look like before, during, and after a game.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
I doubt that the coaches here will want to share their views on the subject.

It all depends on the age and the maturity of the kid your dealing with.

Had the family out to a July 4th get-together at DBAT a couple of weeks ago and I personally witnessed 4 year-old Gherig Griffis dusting kids without mercy.

His dad must be some kind of guy....

1 last thing about hitting kids intentionally. There are times when I have "brushed" a kid back for trying to time my pitches and standing to close in warm ups, a coach trying to give the kids the signs, etc. I like to avoid actual hitting of anyone because it puts a kid on base... isn't the object of pitching to keep everyone off the bases? HAHA.

Now onto the uniform question.

I feel that every kid and/or team in an organization should wear the same uniform. Individual expression is great, but attention should be brought on by the play on the field, not a different outfit. I'm not against the arm band or something, but excessive jewelry and warm up gear can be a little much. Often during the pre-game my team "scopes" out the other team. One thing we do look for is who "looks like a player." This is very arbitrary (spelling?) but looks often tell a lot about a team and/or player. If a kid wears abunch of jewelry, arm bands, has a warm up jacket on (when no one else does), wears his hat crooked, the team will designate him as a "hot head." A team that every player wears his shoes tucked into his pants or with the pants under the cleats will often be the end of abunch of jokes. One thing I love Tommy and my coach for is that they stress not wearing the pants in the shoes. They always remind us that we never know who is watching and once again, the only attention being brought onto yourself should be from play on the field, not your clothing.

Some kids like wearing shorts to the game, which is absolutely fine to me. When in a tournament, and waiting on a game before ours, I too will often wear shorts to stay cool. Somehow though kids will (every once in a while) feel that the pre-game should be done in shorts. This one worries me a little bit.

Post-game: There really isn't much I can say on this one. It's different for each player. Normally I never wear shorts after a game, but our catcher does. After one of our games, believe me, you want as many clothing items from the game before off him due to the foul stench that escapes from his clothes. Once again, I'm all for individual expression, but in general, anything that causes attention to be brought onto yourself anywhere outside of the game itself... for lack of a better phrase... can be done without.

One thing that KILLS me is the coach wearing pants. AHHHH it really isn't a dislike, but it simply looks goofy. All HS coaches do it and it shoots me out the window. I can't help but laugh. Whats really hilarious is when you get coaches in full uniform (wearing pants) and they look younger than some kids on the HS team. This trend is much less common in summer ball. I'm wondering if it is a UIL rule????

I could go into lots of other situations: wearing of the sunglasses on the top of the hat when it's 9pm, having batting gloves in the back pocket while up to bat (sometimes wearing batting gloves and still with a pair in the back pocket), but it's simple... let the play do the talking. Appearance is just that, an appearance. It doesn't make you better or help you throw 90mph. It DOES show a little personality, and if I'm banking on one or two things, it's my personality and knowledge (neither of which are physical ).

D-Tiger
Uniforms for Coaches in High School is a U.I.L. rule. It was inforced to keep polyester shorts out of the 1st and 3rd base boxes. Umpires took the first step by requiring there chapters to be uniform and I thought that added a professional touch to their appearence. Coaches followed trying to do the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
One thing that KILLS me is the coach wearing pants. AHHHH it really isn't a dislike, but it simply looks goofy.

Ken, this kid has seen you in a coaches box!

Keep on postin' Dtiger...

It does make sense for that reason. Like I said, I'm not against it. Lets just say that the coaches at MY HS look.... unique.

Dtiger,

I want to give you a tid bit on something. Not much because this is your story, but I need to say this......

You mention you and your teamates looking for "players".

So do scouts and coaches.

My theory as a player and coach was to never leave any doubt.

If you think wearing shorts before a game may send a small, tiny, itty-bitty doubt in a coach or scouts mind...........forget it. Put on the pants.

In corporate U.S.A. they say dress for the job you want, not the one you have.

How do college players stroll into the ballpark before a college game?

How does a pro players stroll into the ballpark coming to a game?

What is they're appearance after a game?

Think about these things the next time you decide to throw that wife beater on with a pair of boxers with your flip flops and game socks pimping into the dugout (I know that ain't you, just saying )

Always, I mean always, think that someone real important has their eye on you.

Oh yeah, by the way........

I thought I looked great in my coaches pants last couple of summers.

But I did have to order them a tad bit big.

Whats your opinion on the kid with the IPOD in his ears while watching another game? I fell victim to this a few years back but have since broken this habit.

My opinion.......

Never leave any doubt if you think there is a chance, of someone important, making an opinion on it.

I like the consipicuously clear answers.

That would be conspicuously.

Now PD will be proud of both of us.

Next Topic,

How much can a coach play a role in your development as an individual player?

Next. Same question, but now refrence your response in the sense of a team.

If you may. Thanks in advance.

<------KG.......DT------>

GAH I never did enter the spelling B.

Coach to an individual:

Before analyzing anything I'd like to say I wouldn't be half the player I am today if I was not blessed with some of the best coaches in the metroplex. I'd also like to note if some random baseball junkie hadn't met my dad and mentioned a new place called DBAT... I wouldn't be half the player I am today. That statement alone is enough to answer your question, but I'm sure you didn't ask me that to get that simple of a response.

My... unique outlook on coaches is one that I really haven't shared with many people. IMO the greatest thing a coach can do is stimulate the mind of a player. What I mean by that is that a good coach will provoke any player to ask questions, try new ideas, challenge himself on and off the field, and come up with his own ideas. Take a hitting lesson for instance: I've never heard a hitting coach say you MUST do this. The general wording is, "why don't you try this?" My pitching coach asks me to try a new grip... nothing is forced. Lets say I open my front hip (hitting or pitch), the coach will point out that I am doing that. Immediately, in my mind, I ask myself why I might be doing that. The reason could be that I'm trying too hard or being lazy with the front side. I don't really think my concept of a coach is really all that different from what people think of as "teaching." The only difference is that I've found most of (if not all) of my coaches have taught me in a way that I can teach myself down the road. While I'm pitching, I constantly remind myself of mechanics because I know what certain things mean. I know if a fastball goes high and away to a left-handed batter it means I did not stay closed with my front side (this is my scenario... everything is unique to the player).

Coaches to a team:

Disclaimer- I've been fortunate enough to play on top tier teams, therefore my experiences with the coaching styles may be twisted in the eyes of some.

Similarly to coaching a player, a coach for a team should motivate the team. A coach motivates his team to play hard every game, he stresses work ethic, and reminds his team of serious fundamentals throughout the game pertinent to the situation. A fundamental could be never giving up, or finishing a team. Coaches are... for lack of a better word(s)... less "hands on" when it comes to the team. Here's kind of how I see it. All the work a player has done in the past, all the game experience, all the intagibles, etc get a player to his "max level." A good coach will find some way to increase each players "max level" by placing the kid in situations he can perform in order to help the team. So basically, a coach gets that last drop of water out of the water cooler. I also think one of the best things coaches of teams can do is let the kids get themselves out of tough situations. Coaches know the importance of each game and when there is an opportunity to fight through a tough situation, sometimes coaches intervene, sometimes they don't (usually this is for pitchers). I've found that a pitcher that has gone through difficult routes will be much more effective in the crunch (common sense I'd think).

Coaches are great. No-matter what philosophical difference a parent or player may have with them, they are there to HELP you and/or your kid. They have lives (they aren't like me and a complete baseball junkie) and take time out to develop a players game.

And now I'm off to pick up the sis.

Nice. I like it Dtiger.

Ok, last one cause I got to take care of a crying baby.

What do you prefer?

Orange slices or tickets to the snack shack after a game?

I'm not big into oranges... I'm going to have to go with the tickets.

DT -- I'm thinking you must have AMAZING parents!

Amazing... now would I want to give them THAT much credit... hmmm. HAHA yes I would. They have fostered my academic and athletic development my entire life by putting me in the best places to succeed.

JAFO -- do you sense a man-crush? DTiger does have wonderful parents (from my limited observations).

Man crush indeed. Just a bit to bubbly if you know what I mean.

(cough) baseball topics (cough)

HAHA. All of ya'll are open to ask me questions... doesn't just have to be PD and KG.

PD- I had forgotten you had limited contact with the parents. I certainly remember spending a week with you in Minnesota... I hope that's spelled right for all you spelling scholars.

quote:

I had to laugh a few weeks ago.....we had a guest player with us that really knows how the game is played.........he hit a kid on his own because the kid came to the plate wearing sun glasses and mouthing a toothpick!

PD,

I heard about this over the phone and assumed that maybe Ted told him to do this and didn't think any more about it. When I asked him when he got home about it, he told me he wasn't told to do it. I was surprised, really, but am glad to hear he has the b***s to do it. I'm old school when it comes to sending messages when it's necessary.

Funny story.......I told ML about a time in HS, we played a game against Denison and there was this kid that was taking infield wearing sunglasses and had cutoff sleeves and no uniform top, even though the entire team had on their uniform for warmups. The first time the kid came up to the plate, I plunked him with a 95mph fastball. It was a tournament and he showed up the next day on crutches and didn't play the rest of the week. I hope he got the message.

Thatta' boy

quote:

Originally posted by JAFO:
Man crush indeed. Just a bit to bubbly if you know what I mean.

Just enlightened to talk to someone with intellect.

You know, not really the norm on here.

No broke back mountain stuff going on here or nothing.

(you know, Ken, he's not really much more intellectual than some of the others)

No assignments for today?

Dtiger,

I have one for you. Why do kids these days want to wear their hat backwards? It absolutely drives me crazy and whenever I see someone with their hat on backwards, it makes me think they are punks. Tell me about this if you have an opinion.

Round Two:

Why is there so much peer pressure to cuss these days? I can't stand hearing kids strikeout, flyout, whatever and then run to the dugout and you hear a real loud F-bomb. Why is this the norm any more?

Thanks!

Round One:

The only times I've worn my hat backwards is if I'm racing someone or if I'm catching. I'm under the impression that catchers alone have the right to wear the hat backwards. I know this sounds weird but my mom always encouraged me to do it so she could "see my eyes." Of course, she's a mom, so I'll cut her some slack. The backward hat sitings have become fewer and farther between for me. My opinion is the same as with the general uniform: if your bringing attention to yourself with something that isn't a glove, arm, bat, baseball, or feet, you ain't doing the right thing. I think it's the "rebelious" thing to do when a kid is younger. You see it in all the kid baseball movies: Angels in the Outfield, Little Big League, etc.

Round Two:

Cussing... I mean really that's enough said. It's cussing, and cussing is an aspect of society that is frowned upon very highly. I say dang't, I say shoot, if I get really mad you might get the c**p, but in general I am pretty calm. I think IN GENERAL, the kids that cuss are the kids who press. What I mean is that they try SO hard (or they want everyone to think they are) that when they fail, they try to show they are p'o-ed at themselves. It's perfectly fine for a kid to be mad at himself, but baseball is a game of failure, a game of what have you done for me lately, and beating yourself up over hitting a high pop up to the SS with the bases loaded aint going to help you the next time up at the plate. Once again, for me and my experiences, the vulgar language has steadily subsided with the addition of age. When a kid is young he finds cussing as a way to rebel or be "tough." Once he matures, he begins to notice the lack of attractiveness that the foul words bring along with them.

I appreciate your responses, but I would like to know you're thoughts on why you think other kids that you know, or maybe even play on a team with, do both. I'm not talking about the "mad cuss", but the day in and day out cussing.

Think about the kids you are around, if you are around any, who do both or one and think it's OK.

Thanks!

Tommy is such a stickler about appearance that NO ONE wears their hat backwards to a game. Now I know Akins wears his hat slanted, and semi-backwards, but I think that is more culture (this is not when he is in baseball clothes). The cussing.... well I mean the Tigers 16U (I'm very proud to say) are very clean... I'm being dead serious. The most cussing that goes on is when we watch baseball tonight and Web Gems... so you can imagine the uses. As a whole, the team is clean in about every way possible. The one other way I hear it used it to stress something. Lets use a casual example of eating food. When someone gets a bad meal that might originally say, this tastes horrible. Inevitably a kid will say it can't be that bad, and then the response is "this tastes like s***." My attitude towards this is you have to pick your battles. If it is not overused (which I stress it isn't throughout the team... we really are perfect-always right - teenagers. HAHA) then as a peer, I'm not going to make a big deal about it. One thing I will say, it is a NONO around females. Not that females aren't mature enough to hear it or something, but it's very un-classy (is that even a word?) and it's something no one does.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Tommy is such a stickler about appearance that NO ONE wears their hat backwards to a game. Now I know Akins wears his hat slanted, and semi-backwards, but I think that is more culture (this is not when he is in baseball clothes). The cussing.... well I mean the Tigers 16U (I'm very proud to say) are very clean... I'm being dead serious. The most cussing that goes on is when we watch baseball tonight and Web Gems... so you can imagine the uses. As a whole, the team is clean in about every way possible. The one other way I hear it used it to stress something. Lets use a casual example of eating food. When someone gets a bad meal that might originally say, this tastes horrible. Inevitably a kid will say it can't be that bad, and then the response is "this tastes like s***." My attitude towards this is you have to pick your battles. If it is not overused (which I stress it isn't throughout the team... we really are perfect-always right - teenagers. HAHA) then as a peer, I'm not going to make a big deal about it. One thing I will say, it is a NONO around females. Not that females aren't mature enough to hear it or something, but it's very un-classy (is that even a word?) and it's something no one does.

I'm glad to hear that you guys are a class act. I thought so, especially you. I wish I could say the same about some young men that I have heard over the last several months. That's all I'm going to say about that. I just hate that it's accepted like it is in some circles as far as the baseball community in most places.

I agree with you, but I can't blame parents. I'm being dead serious, no parent would allow it... because if they did, we'd have bigger issues.

I'd also like to add that the kids as a whole are good natured, but ample credit needs to be given to the coach. Cussing has never been our thing, but at the comencement of this season helmet throwing was something that came up (rarely.. but rarely is too often). That has since vanished.

Cussing and improper attire stems for a gradual relaxation of discipline.

Over the years, little by little, these issues along with many others get worse due to lack of enforcement.

Plain and simple.

Dtiger, as a change of pace, why don't you ask some "usual posters" questions that you have for parents or coaches. This may stem more questions back towards you.

quote:

Cussing and improper attire stems for a gradual relaxation of discipline.

Over the years, little by little, these issues along with many others get worse due to lack of enforcement.

Plain and simple.

Ken,

You're EXACTLY right! It's a shame if you ask me. A little here, a little there turns into a big pile of it. I wish coaches, and parents these days would just put their foot down and say enough is enough. But most of them probably do it, so they really can't. Oh well.......but, I don't want it to be "oh well"! That's where the whole thing starts really, if you think about it.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Well a questioned I've turned over in my mind after the Florida trip is how I would feel if I played with a club like EC Astros. I'm wondering what ya'lls take would be. Would parents put aside their needs for their kid to be playing as much as these parents do? Do you sacrifice that for gauranteed winning? I personally find the challenge of winning to be the fun part. I'm sure I could travel the USA taking biggest, fastest, and most talented players and put them on a team to beat anyone... but there'd be no challenge... and I'd be called a pro scout.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Well a questioned I've turned over in my mind after the Florida trip is how I would feel if I played with a club like EC Astros. I'm wondering what ya'lls take would be. Would parents put aside their needs for their kid to be playing as much as these parents do? Do you sacrifice that for gauranteed winning? I personally find the challenge of winning to be the fun part. I'm sure I could travel the USA taking biggest, fastest, and most talented players and put them on a team to beat anyone... but there'd be no challenge... and I'd be called a pro scout.

Great question, I will answer it when i get home from work.

I'll jump in here on the EC Astros question since I have a pretty good point of reference to draw from.

For former Coach Gut's benefit , let me state my qualifications that allow me to provide a little insight in responding to the question:

- I played for Guerry Baldwin back in the day. Guerry runs East Cobb Baseball and is the Head Coach for the East Cobb Astros 16U club.

- I coached for Guerry in the East Cobb program prior to moving to Keller 5 years ago and both my sons played East Cobb baseball. We moved to Texas before either of the boys turned 16 so neither of them got to the point where they could tryout for the Astros.

- The East Cobb program is nationally recognized and was named the Amatuer Program of the Decade for the 90s by Baseball America winning a bunch of national titles along the way. Guerry's Astros squad year end and year out has been recognized as one of the top flite 16U squads in the country.

Having said all that, I know a little about the program and how Guerry runs things. As you'd imagine it's incredibly competitive and considered a big time honor for a player to make the Astros club. Think of it this way, if you took the best of the best from the Mustangs, DBAT, Tigers, Marshalls, Blackhawks, Panthers, etc. and formed one team that's what you have with East Cobb Astros. Quite simply, you have to be a 16 year-old stud to play for him. Also, I don't recall the specific numbers but in tracking the players who played for Guerry and the Astros through the end of the program (when they turn 18), 98-99% eventually went D1 or got drafted. Again, I've been a few years removed from it but I'd imagine the numbers are still tracking the same.

Guerry is strictly in it for the players and his program, not the parents. He makes that very clear. Quite honestly, during my time in the program, I found very few parents who really liked Guerry. Want to know how much he cared what the parents thought? Not one bit. Having a parent upset with him doesn't faze him a single iota because if a family decides to pack it in and leave during the summer he simply reaches back and brings another 16 year old stud into the fold. I've seen it happen a few times.

Don't get me wrong, the parents very much respect his coaching ability (he's one of the best and the guys who are his assistant coaches are also top notch) and the program's track record speaks for itself but Guerry's not in it to be their friend. Also, he makes it very clear at the start of the summer what his expectations are for the team, playing time to be expected for each player, etc. I've sat in on one of his player/parent kickoff meetings and there is no fuzz on his message. He runs his squad like a college program. Generally speaking pitchers are pitchers only regardless if they are a stud position player with their school team.

It doesn't surprise me at all that parents are grumbling but, honestly, they went into the deal eyes wide open.

So, to answer your question DTiger, if we were still living in Georgia and either one of my boys would have had the chance to play for Guerry Baldwin and the Astros then yes we would have opted for doing that fully knowing what we were getting into. His program's track record speaks for itself and it would be an indicator, not a guarantee, that my kids may have a future playing the game beyond HS. Plus, the coaching my guys would have gotten would have been the best in the area and one of the tops in the country.

Sorry to be so long winded but I thought a former East Cobb perspective may be somewhat interesting. Back to the salt mines ...

This is an interesting perspective, and one that I really do see your reasoning behind. I'm not going to lie, if I was able to play for the EC Astros, who in my mind are the premier baseball club in the USA, I would probably do it in a heart beat. The only problem is, sometimes we as teenagers rush into things without doing what truly is best for ourselves (this is totally not saying we are not always right ). The record, the quality, the talent all speaks for itself with EC, but if I was a pitcher only in order to make this team but still a position player (outside in another team), I think when I took a step back that I'd realize I'm doing my overall development a disservice. One thing that I noticed about EC (all teams not just Astros) is that they constantly had their pitchers doing drills. As a pitcher, I loved this and saw that even when they weren't pitching (or going to pitch that day), they were doing drills. I agree with your assessment of how the EC Astros would be like the best from DBAT; Tigers; etc, but I also feel like an eleven man roster down in Florida had a pretty good chance at giving them a game.

One thing that I'm..... not going to disagree but rather further explain is how you said the team was run like a college program. In every way I'd say yes to that EXCEPT when I hear they flew in 3 kids for the end of the tournament. Colleges don't just fly kids in from around the country. Now before I sound like I'm mad, I'm not. These kids were legitimately on their roster at the deadline, but they were also kids that you knew weren't from EC. That's another question now I can ask you frogdawg--- how many (if any) of the kids go down there for their summer just to play ball with the EC Astros or an EC affiliated team?

DTiger,
Points well taken on bringing other kids in. That was done on occasion back when we were involved in the program but it was not a surprise to the parents or the players. Maybe it's more prevalent now; I don't know. Again though, the parents and players all knew that was a possibility and a part of the deal at the start of their journey with the Astros.

Also, I definitely see your point about weighing whether to be a pitcher-only on a club like the Astros or being able to also play a position for another club. That is a decision the player and parents have to collectively make. Again, the thing with the Astros, it's made very clear up front what the expectations are. If the player and parents decide to move in a direction they think's better for them then great. No hard feelings.

The problem I have as a former select coach is that you can have your parent/player meetings and get the head nod from everyone that they're on board and they understand the expectations, that we're fielding our best team, playing time is not guaranteed, etc. Then when reality hits you get to deal with a whole lot of complaining. That stuff ended up bothering me more than it should have. Like I said before, Guerry could care less if parents are complaining. If it gets bad enough, they're told to take a hike and he and the team moves on.

To further answer your last question, back when we were in the program, I recall one kid from Alabama and I think one from Tennessee who lived in Marietta for the summer that played East Cobb ball. Neither played for the Astros. I guess in today's environment, that's just a reality parents and players have to deal with from time to time. Not that it makes it right, or that you have to like it, that's just the way it is. I know of a couple of nationally recognized programs that pull players from all over the country and travel all summer under the guise that there kids are 'local'. That's the nature of the beast these days.

BTW, I'd LOVE to see a 'best of the best' from the DFW area face off against the Astros. I think Guerry would be in for a real dogfight.

I definately agree with your assessment that if you sign on the dotted line, you know what your going to get. Believe me, I know all about complaining... or worrying about trying to keep parents happy with my dad being the team "manager." I'd call it more overseer. That's a really good idea though. I'd love nothing more than to take the best of the best from the metroplex and face them off against the Astros. I know IF we did that we wouldn't have to worry about parental problems because like Guerry does, we could simply move on. With the talent in the DFW being so dispersed, keeping everyone happy becomes much more of a goal. I think we both agree on many things on this subject. If you sign up, you know what your getting into. If you don't want to be getting into it, no one forces you. I'm also curious though if there ever was a stud pitcher that elected not to be with the EC Astros when he had the opportunity? Also, do the EC Astros continually pick up new players throughout the year? I would doubt it considering they are so stacked, but you can never get enough pitching. I ask the question though because often the "big dog" organizations can have a feel that they bully around the smaller clubs by getting whatever player they want. I'd hope this is not the case. I'm not saying picking up players throughout the year is bad, I think a lot of it falls on how the process was conducted.

I can't adequately answer your question reagarding a big stud pitcher turning down an opportunity to play for the Astros because I don't know for sure. I don't recall of that ever happening and doubt that it would unless the player decided to play outside of the East Cobb program.

I can tell you that on the last team I coached at EC I was able to pick up a stud pitcher (ended up being my ace) because he was going to also play 3rd base for me. The #1 team wanted him to be a pitcher only. I had the #2 team and provided the better fit for what the player and parents wanted.

That kid ended up being a pitcher only for the Astros and is now doing extremely well at a D1 school in North Carolina.

Bottom line ... Guerry gets his pick of the East Cobb kids and it's understood you don't turn down an opportunity to be personally coached by him and his staff. Again, if you want to be part of EC baseball.

Great insight and information froggy. How's the young tadpole?

Coach C,
He's doing great - thanks for asking. Having a really good summer. He and his Mustang teammates are in Mobile this week at a Premier tourney. I'm left to sit at work and wait for his post game calls to get all the updates. As you can imagine, it's killing me to miss these games but you've got work sometime, right?

As you know, the really pressure filled tourney starts next week with the Connie Mack regional. Should be some great baseball.

After that, it's just a few short weeks before he and Monk head off to the land of purple and white. I'm sure Ms. Frogdawg and I will have more free baseball time so when you guys get your fall schedule drop me a PM. We'd love to come see the young Northwest HS stud play.

First of all, I have never raised a son so I am speaking for my future possibilities.

In the situation you pose Dtiger, I would 100% agree with frogdawg.

The whole key to the situation is being realistic as a player and family. If a family realizes the ability level of the player, they should understand the opportunity. If the ability level does not compare to the "best of the best" than another option should be looked into.

Being up front, like the said coach, is very important. I like the words frogdawg spoke of when he mentioned the EC coach could care less what the parents thought. In my tenure, I would say I thought the same except for a few.

If you are a top level player and can compete with the best, I believe you should take the opportunity. The whole theory of "playing time makes you better" is not necessarily true in my opinion. Playing with good players makes you better.

You take the same player and put him with a scrub team and a exceptional team, generally the exceptional team will allow for more improvement and opportunities. Maybe playing time will be less, but I would take quality over quanity any day.

Like other things, standing firm on the rules you put forth as a coach has become more relaxed in this day in age. The EC Astros must have built this tradition with long lasting examples of standing firm on their rules and expectations. As a coach, it was a battle each day to impose the rules set forth. But sometimes the punishments you set forth on rule breakers can disrupt a team more so than turning away at times. (and I'm not talking about this in a performance sense) That is why I sit here as a "retired summer ball coach" .
I found that if I couldn't enforce what I believed was right without having a battle each day, it wasn't worth it for me to spend my time that way. Plus, having a newborn son, my priorities have changed.

But, if 16-18 good players got together and needed a coach that could do it "my way", I would do it again in a heartbeat. Because I love the game and I like to teach kids that want to learn. But from most of the responses to my posts, I believe that to be highly unlikely.

I usually just chalk it up to....."times have changed".

I definately don't disagree with frogdawg, I just want to make that clear. If you pass up the EC Astros you better be doing so for a GOOD reason. I think though it's a different kind of baseball. I am encouraged to hear somewhere in the country parents don't bicker... or wait the coaches don't listen... or wait the parents want to bicker but don't. ANYWAY... the club is amazing. I hope to get the opportunity to one day pitch against one of their teams, I'm still liking this war cry: 23 against 11!!! Also I'd like to note that most of the complaining parents I've heard about (whether it be serious or not) usually do not bicker from what their son tells them. I think kids (if this is possible) are willing to put aside their egos if it means being apart of greatness. I think if more parents talked about the issues they worry about with their kid, there would be a lot less complaining. Also I'd like to say that as frustrating as it can be, parents want the best for their kid, and no one can fault that.

quote:

Also I'd like to say that as frustrating as it can be, parents want the best for their kid, and no one can fault that.

If you knew the names, as well as others I know, I have been called you could.

I'm slightly confused by that statement... I think I know what your trying to say, but so much can get lost without true verbal communication, so could you maybe rephrase.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
I'm slightly confused by that statement... I think I know what your trying to say, but so much can get lost without true verbal communication, so could you maybe rephrase.

Example,

A parent ain't happy about he situation with their son.

I get a call.

Now you understand? Remember the cussing topic?

AHHH, yes... haha. This is true, so let me correct myself. MOST of the time the parent is looking out for their kid. From what I've heard about coaches, it's a lot more tolerable if the parents go about it the right way. I know anything is probably annoying, but there is a time and a place if they HAVE to.

“The whole key to the situation is being realistic as a player and family. If a family realizes the ability level of the player, they should understand the opportunity. If the ability level does not compare to the "best of the best" than another option should be looked into”

Unfortunately that “realistic” thing goes out the window right when the parent(s) are looking at that mass wrapped up in a blue or pink blanket. I have not heard too many parents say; dang my kid is the ugliest one of the bunch. A few years later put a glove in their hand and those rose colored glasses become more tinted.

Dtiger, do you have any thoughts on coaches promising / presenting something in order to recruit a kid that ended up being somewhat….misleading?

I can definately agree with your thought process T-Ball. Seinfeld does a great representation of the exact scenario your talking about, but that aint baseball.

I really can't tell you how something like that would happen because I haven't experienced it first hand. I feel that no coach should promise anything he can't back up. A lot of times though I've heard of a coach telling a parent, "he'll play some third base for us." This usually gets misunderstood and the parent thinks the kid is going to be the every day 3B. Is this the coach's fault? Or is this the parents? Or is it both? (I'm asking all of you) If you know the situation that occurred at the beginning of this season with my own team, then you know that even though the coach didn't promise anything to anyone, it was a touchy subject with some of the new kids. Thats as far as I'll go on that subject, you can PM if you want more details and my opinion on the situation. As a general thought though, coaches should try to make it as clear as possible what they invision a kids role being. I can imagine though if you have a stud pitcher who is a mediocre infielder, it's probably tough not to throw in that line about playing SOME infield.

"Is this the coach's fault? Or is this the parents? Or is it both?" Yes, Yes. We all have a tendency to hear what we want to hear in all aspects of life. Knowing parents hear what they want to hear, if a coach suggests a conversation about playing time, that coach should make it a point to define what “some third” means, AND not get offended when the parent is looking for a little clarity on the definition of “some”.

A coach might have said something like "your kid won’t see the field unless we’re up by a dozen and I’m gone", and the parent heard he’ll get some time at third.

Good Point

I thought Charles Darwin went over this a long time ago? What coach wouldn't put a line up out there, in his judgement, that will give your team the best chance to bring your team a win? If there are some out there that don't, BASH AWAY

Survival of the fittest. Is that even the same guy?

You are smart!

swingdoc -- I know of a HS coach that seems more concerned with the opinions of his summer coaches than with fielding the best possible team. Oops, self-edited!

You have got to be kidding me! I feel sorry for those kids ~ the one's sittin as well as the one's playin. Again I realize that's just your opinion. I didn't have one like that in the guys I coached against. Did I?

This Jesuit education better be teaching me something.

I don't remember if this guy coached in the old 9-5A ---- you're right, it's an opinion that I've formulated from discussions with a few that are involved in it. I think a coach owes it to his players to field the best team. And on that note, I'm going to shut up.

There were definately times last year during the season a certain kid played because his dad donated things to the booster club or even ran the thing. Normally with coaches not putting the best on the field I'd think it'd have something to do with $$$$

Now I understand why you favor select coaches over your HS coach. Makes sense. Doesn't everyone have cash at Jesuit? How else are they there?

DTiger -- Concerning some of these conversations, I think you should learn when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We enjoy your opinions and your teen-age perspective, but be careful. Please take this as friendly advice and not as a scolding ---- and we continue to look forward to your posts.

Actually one thing I really appreciate about Jesuit is how the school goes to very far lengths to get kids a great education. Through work grant, scholarships by alumni, and one of the lowest private school tuitions in the metroplex, kids from all income classes attend Jesuit. Even though most of the people think it's expensive---it is--- Greenhill, St. Marks, and Episcopal School of Dallas all make Jesuit look like it's the thrifty store.

PD- Point taken. I failed to mention that these were certain situations that was understandable. No one was angered by it... not even I was. The kid deserved to get some playing time considering he was by far the hardest worker and a senior, but the question was do coaches ALWAYS put the best team on the field.

Back for a minute to the East Cobb discussion -- frogdawg, do you know what the families pay to play on the Astros? Do the pitcher-only players pay the same as the position players? Do "role" players pay the same as the starters? Do they fund-raise? Do they have scholarships? Are they sponsored?

Probably 90% of the parents of the players on the bench did not think the coach put a winning team on the field. That is the perspective issue again... Or is that a wining team?

Any lineup my school had last year would've had trouble winning... but that's why there's always next year.

(deleted)

PD,
Sorry to be late in answering your question about the EC Astros cost. One can only multi-task so long between work and posting to the HSBBWEB before you have to pick one.

I don't know what it cost to be an EC Astro these days. Back when we were there (5+ years ago), the cost to be in the EC program was $1000/player, regardless of whether your son was a pitcher only or role player. That did not include any travel costs. I know, $1000 seems like a deal now. That cost would be offset by how much each player could garner through fund raising.

Each team did there own fundraising plus the EC program published a media guide every year and players were encouraged to sell ad space for the guide. A portion of the ad sales went to credit the player's account and the balance went to the program.

Also, the Astros conducted tryouts which parents had to pay for. I think the cost was ~ $100. A portion of that fee went to cover expenses for the Astros club as well. Finally, East Cobb has long secured sponsorships from Rawlings and Reebok. These sponsorships result in scholarships awarded to selected players at the year-end banquet which is a huge deal in the Metro Atlanta area.

Hope this answered the question. Again, my cost information is dated but I'm sure the fund raising, media guide ad sales and paying for the opportunity to tryout still occurs.

I had a lengthy conversation with an EC Astro's parent last week in jupiter. According to him they have pre-season open tryouts. They charge $100 for a tryout. They tend to attract anywhere from 100-200 kids per age group. (add that up) When the Astro's teams are in town they run the tournaments, work the fields, consessions, clean up. basically the kids that make the Astro's teams are for the most part fully sponsered.(they do have to put the work in) some of the other EC teams will get some oppertunitys to raise money this way too. and yes they sell ad space and other fundraising events.

I'm gone for the weekend in Waco, but don't let this thread die. I'd love to see a ton of questions when I return.

Just wondering what everyone feels about Ozzie Guillen.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Just wondering what everyone feels about Ozzie Guillen.

Did you watch the game Sunday?

Ozzie is a tired act. As soon as the win column goes down, he's gone for sure. Maybe sooner.

Showing a player up on the field is a huge no-no in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Just wondering what everyone feels about Ozzie Guillen.

Somebody needs to take that dude out behind the wood shed.

Those are to the point.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Those are to the point.

Tell us what you think Dtiger.