Civility at HSBaseballWeb.Com

BOF posted:

I agree with you PG, I really miss TRHit. (I can't believe I am typing this after some of the raging battles we had GotWood is a huge loss for completely different reasons. I could resurrect some of my PGxxxx  posts, I think I have the drafts someplace) xxxx = toddlers, oldfarts, etc. With some luck Tim the Enchanter could spice things up, however I know he has been rather busy teaching his flint and tinder classes. 

As long as it does not get too personal, I am a believer that 'through conflict come clarity"  

Did you ever meet TR? Typically, people have an idea of what a person might look like. I was surprised when I met TR. Think Paul Williams circa 1970 in a baseball uniform. He could be grumpy online. He was very cordial in person.

old_school posted:

PGStaff posted:

IMO, this site has forgotten its roots to an extent.  It has grown somewhat boring compared to several years ago.  It is still a great site, lots of good people, and all that, but I miss several of those people that added some excitement in years past.  I miss the humor and the joking around.

care to discuss hitting mechanics....

LMAO!

With the trend toward recruiting younger and younger players this is a revolutionary program...

http://community.hsbaseballweb...erfect-game-toddlers

It has been awhile but I forgot I had PG Old Farts in the same thread.

Perfect Game Old Farts announced: Based on the success of Perfect Game Toddlers; company becomes first cradle to grave showcase and ranking company

Dateline: November 25, 2020 - Chicago (now that we are so successful we got the hell out of Iowa like everyone else)

All for civility. Also all for knowledge, against myths , lies and legends. I also remember the "holy wars" rotational v. linear and drag marks for pitcher. And where is Tim?  I lurked for several years before deciding to join - had nothing to offer and lots of answers were here for the research.

I don't know what is going on with a PM with 75 people; I do know if you encapsule yourself in an echo chamber, you simply reinforce preconceived opinions.

"They all contacted me one by one to join the PM, there are MANY posts that often start with "I was afraid to ask this on the big board but......" AFRAID is the key word most often associated with the big board."

AFRAID? Of an anonymous internet chat forum? AFRAID that some stranger will give you their opinions in a manner which upsets the reader? Post it; read the comments; change or don't change, it doesn't matter to those who are writing.

"As for parents whose kids have traveled the 'journey'... I personally haven't found much value in it. Their experience is unique to them and mine to me."

And, to Mike, it works. Of course, for parents going through it for the first time, learning about the IVY AI in the kid's junior year, the fact that academic aid can be better (and more plentiful) and the kid needs to hit it hard from his first HS year academically, 11.7 and its implications, D3 recruiting, EA v ED, which camps/showcases cater to which strength, bigtime programs and (potential) major sacrifices, verbals and its strengths and weaknesses, injury issues, and so many more are best learned mid-HS from your peers? And how does that work? 

Take advice from those who have gone through it, or don't take it - doesn't do a thing one way or the other for me. 

"But if I want some germane experience who better than a family with a kid same age as mine or close to get current and relevant information from?"

I don't agree that most parental peers know what's going on over the horizon; those who have an older child do have a leg up; those whose eldest is traveling the path notice that owner's manuals are lacking. I would absolutely look to peers for germane experiences: what classes is your son taking; how's the coach; do they let him play travel ball; was Cooperstown fun, where should I eat and stay in East Cobb, and lots, lots more. So, it depends on the subject matter. Too many parents simply share urban myths and legends - what anecdotally happens to them are often stretched by other parents into principles to be applied to their situation - to their detriment.

The college baseball landscape is changing exponentially. Experience from ten plus years ago are nearly irrelevant."

Don't agree. My son pitched against Bryce Harper in eight grade. Place was crawling with scouts/recruiters. While coaches do agree (and lament) that kids are getting verbals earlier - as we have seen from the recent post - so what? That verbal is an illusion. And, if parents want to sit around with their peers trading info on verbals, who is going to tell them the messy truth - well, those who have gone through it. And this board is the place to publicly learn those topics - otherwise, it's reinventing the wheel.

Which is better? Receiving congrats for that verbal offer or understanding that the value of that offer is less than it appears - unenforceable by the kid or school, contingent on the coach remaining, contingent on grades, contingent on scores, contingent on physical growth, contingent on character, contingent on baseball skills advancing, contingent on the kid having the same academic interests, contingent on the kid wanting to stay (or leave) home.  When would a poster like to know these trap doors - around NLI time?

New posters: have courage; use the search function first, but by all means ask public questions. What's the point of not using all the talent and "corporate memory" built up over the years - but, by all means if you desire, join an annoying PM thread which consumes your time without even being sure you aren't in an echo chamber.

real green posted:

2019Dad posted:

Civility of course should be the rule.

Do we treat all posters with respect? Even if they are new? Does having a child who advanced further in baseball entitle a poster to a higher level of respect/deference -- with the corollary of course that having a child who has not advanced as far in baseball entitles a poster to a lower level of respect/deference? To me the answers should be "yes," "yes," and "no." But I'm not sure that is how things actually operate.

Today is a good example. An 8th grader (or maybe his dad) posts about the necessary velocity to reach D1 . . . to me it is not civil to post a response like "8th grade doesn't matter" -- huh? what? where did the OP say that 8th grade mattered? I'm really not trying to call out Big Taco -- it just happened to occur today -- but that sort of thing happens to new posters ALL OF THE TIME on this board. I just don't see the point in it.

Sometimes I think that if a newbie posts a question on this board, the best thing for the newbie to do is to provide as few details as possible -- any and all information can and will be used against you! Which is kind of sad. 

2019Dad, sometimes its how you receive a message more than how it's delivered.  Big Taco's post is spot on.  He offered great feedback!  If you choose to shut down after reading "8th grade doesn't matter,"  that's on you.  I would hate to lose some of the older posters experience from this site simply because they don't wrap all their golden nuggets into pretty well thought out responses.  Making sure they don't offend a small pool in our forum community.

Reminds me of Coach Robe's interview about "throw down."  He states one of his challenges today as a coach, " How far can you go, to get your team tough before you get reprimanded by soft people and a soft society?"  

"Harder than you are throwing now. 8th grade doesn't matter. How hard will you throw as a senior in High School? Will you work hard to gain velocity? Will you stay healthy? Will you still play? Can you pitch? Do you have a "plus" curveball, changeup, slider? Can you handle game pressure? How do you handle setbacks? Can you make grades? Are you a hard worker? Time will tell. What can you do to set yourself apart from all the other hard throwers? Keep working at it."

There is so much info in these 6 lines!  It's unfortunate some choose to stop reading after the first....  Nothing disrespectful about this post!  

 

Who said anything about stopping reading after the first sentence?

Goose, to be clear we aren't discussing recruiting tactics and what works best, we are talking about 8-10th grade baseball, and football, and what was served at the banquet...not an echo chamber, more like a stream of thought chamber.  

At the beginning of every PM I remind people that "for long term advice it's best to go to the big board so we aren't the blind leading the blind".

We are cheering our kids successes and lamenting their failures. We will get to the "which showcase", "D3 vs NAIA" discussions on the big board but for now we are venting and swapping stories about real life, and forming friendships with people who are living it now.

I don't understand the thinking someone who has been through it yesterday doesn't understand what it's like to go through it today. My kids are five years apart. The oldest played softball. The youngest played baseball. The only thing I needed to learn the second time around was where are the right baseball events. The process and the trap doors were the same. 

I don't care if it's when I was recruited or when my kids were recruited. "Hear what the coaches are saying not what you want to hear" and "go where they show love over where they show interest" is still the best advice you can get.

There are people paying a lot of money for advice they would receive free here. My first time around with softball I was fortunate to get advice from another dad whose daughter was already a prospect with an older sister and brother already in college ball. What I learned from softball applied to baseball.

The real problem with this offshoot PM thing is that it is not available for the rest of us.  

There is a reason some people stay around on this site long after their kids have passed through HS, and/or their kids are not going to play collegiately.  We all can learn -- whether experienced or inexperienced -- whether in 8th, 12th or beyond -- whether D1 or D3 or JUCO -- etc.  The common thread is love of our nation's pastime.  

By creating a private PM, you are cutting off some of us who would love to see and perhaps contribute to these conversations, even if not parents of 8-10th graders.  And all the things you are sharing and saying are not available for the current 6th and 7th grade parents (and below that) to learn as they find this site...

Please reconsider the PM and make the board as a whole better, rather than divisive and exclusive.  

As Fenway says, just my 2 cents. 

Why do I feel like I'm back in middle school and not only am I not allowed to sit at the table with the cool kids but I can't even see the table because someone invented this wierd artificial world in computer-generated space that I can't even see?

No matter what those in the 2020 group might think,the process to and through succeeding in playing on a college baseball field is not discovered in a PM group of those who have not been there, in my opinion and experience.

The process does not end with the NLI or college commitment. It begins at that point, in my view. 

The number of players involved in "early" recruiting is limited to mostly the elite players and Power 5 conferences.  Just by contrast, there is a thread on this site right now showing the reality of that process, with more than a few expressing shock at its reality. For the vast majority of our son's, it is a huge mistake to associate the early recruiting process of "elite" players with the manner in which many "elite" coaches outside the Power 5 go about their business.

As I read the 2020 group, the majority who post here don't need this site  and certainly don't need the  experience of old timers anymore.  They can get all they need in their PM group or outside the HSBBW from folks like 2020DAD. It appears there is so much focus on how to get recruited and sign that NLI for a D1, the process beyond that signing is almost meaningless,

The HSBBW has, historically, been such valuable site because of the synthesis between those who have been there, those on the way up, and the dialogue of helpfulness between those groups. Quite clearly, that synthesis is eroded, and, perhaps, irreparably so, no matter how polite the comments might be.

The success my oldest had in the recruiting journey can be directly attributed to help from HSBBW folks, newcomers and oldsters alike.  Not everyone, apparently, shares that experience.

Have I paused before posting stuff because I was worried about snarky responses? Yes, but I've posted anyway, because my interest in learning outweighs my timidity.  But I've also learned that one person's genuine response can be mistaken for a snarky one because social media is such a poor conveyor of tone.  I once made a reader here so angry with me that he quit the board altogether, simply because I asked, in all sincerity, what a mid-major was.  To me, that was just a whack reaction to a simple question.  I also think it's a little odd to answer an 8th grader's query about D1 velocity with a rapid fire series of questions that an adult would have a hard time dealing with, let alone a pubescent kid.

I've  seen inexperienced posters here get vilified because they asked simple questions that most of us already knew the answers to.  I've been impressed by the folks that take the time to gently point out the search function.  I usually just ignore those kinds of posts and move on to the next thread.

Swampboy, thanks for the reminder to be civil.

First let me say I am glad we are having this conversation.  And so far it has actually remained at least fairly civil.  This is good.  Perhaps we needed this open and honest dialogue a long time ago.  So allow me to address a few recent posts:

First to JCG I assure you we are not the cool kids!  Far from it we are really accepting and have a few on our PM who don't have kids our age.  You want in just say the word!  

Two Boys - Believe me most of what we talk about would not benefit the group at all.  It's just friends talking to friends.  But yes I suppose we do have a nugget now and again and it is kind of unfortunate that it is in a closed forum.  But the benefit of that closed forum is a naive parent who maybe doesn't know the game can ask the stupidest question in the world without fear of criticism.  Not everyone is as thick skinned as me.  Some people do need a safer environment.  I think thats ok.

RJM - I get that some people pay advisors etc.  Personally I just don't get that.  And I am sure that could provide fodder for an entire thread.  I would never pay anyone a dime for advice on how to go through a recruiting journey.  Now disclaimer on that my son is not in any way shape or form a D1 baseball recruit so easy for me to say.  But our organization head has gotten many kids through the D1 process so if he were we have resources.  Plus I know coaches well from every level of college baseball.  Even if they don't personally recruit my son they are always happy to answer questions.  Caco always tells me my experience is not normal.  I come from a baseball hotbed and know many many former MiLB and MLB guys.  Was a coach and therefore know a lot of folks in the coaching world both high school and college.  And now since moving to wisconsin have just gotten to know the baseball world here a little through my son's teams.  I guess I just assume anyone who is a D1 recruit knows a similar amount of people and frankly probably a lot more.  So I really don't mean it disrespectfully but if I really want advice I am going to sit down with our organization head not ask the big board.  

Infield - First I want to say firmly that our group gets very little advice from me!  So I know your comment was sarcastic but I still want to make it clear I do not hold myself up as any reliable source of advice.  I hope I add a little value but really not into playing guru.  Secondly this idea that our PM 'hasn't been there'.  Why would you assume that?  Like any other cross section of people we have the whole range from clueless to expert.  We have former pro players, former and current coaches, top recruits, former college players etc. just like any other cross section on here.  Why is their experience invalid?  If the process is the process and it hasn't really changed that much (not what I believe) then our former collegiate players should have a lot to share with us.  If the process has changed greatly then the more contemporary the source the better and we have folks going through it now, can't get much more contemporary than that.

So infield is our synthesis irreparable?  I don't know but it is truly a fair question.  Open honest and non critical is key.  And its not a matter of having or not having thick skin.  I have thick skin but I also don't have much of a flight response, its pretty much stuck on fight.  So when I feel attacked I don't cowar but attack back.  And in the long run that is counterproductive as well.  So the big boarders who are less than sunny to especially new posters have to realize its simply a counterproductive approach.  Its not a matter of please please play nice to our delicate snowflakes, far from it.  I can take the hits, bring it on - but guess what?  I am no longer listening to you either.  At least by way of really listening.  I guess what I am saying is if you want to be heard, really heard and want people to pay attention then you have to be just a little kinder.  Now if you don't care if they listen...  Well then I am really confused about why we would even be having this conversation!!!

PS - that last paragraph just for clarity the 'you' was of course meant in the generic sense not specifically addressing infielddad.  Sad that we have to make these clarifications but this is how a lot of this stuff gets started.

IMO, the commentary on the 2020 PM makes the point in the title of this thread.  

PSS - I will say there has been one very valuable take away I have gotten from these boards.  Someone talked about the car rides.  Confessed that their car rides after games became unpleasant and it was one of his big regrets.  That hit me hard.  I am not a close the windows and scream at my kid in the parking lot type but I was all business once we hit that car.  Why did you do this, why didn't you do that?  How many times have we talked about this...   That post hit me like a ton of bricks and I have become a better baseball dad because of it.  About a week ago he had one of his better games of the year but unfortunately struck out in extra innings with the tying run at second and winning run at first and two outs.  Had the game tying hit in the bottom of 7th to send it to extras and pitched well but all that of course is down the drain when you strike out to end the game.  We got in the car and I didn't say a word.  Just gave him a couple love pats and a squeeze like he was 8 years old again.  And we drove away.  He got the message without a word.  And the message was 'I feel bad for ya kid but I still love you'.  I forget who posted that but I am indebted to them.  We love our car rides now and those rides are memories in and of themselves.  We have a huge bond built largely around baseball.

As a parent of a 2020, I can truly appreciate what this site has to offer. The information that's available on this site has been/is awesome for the most part. The search function has saved from from asking a few questions because I found the answers in a previous thread. 

I have said before that I'm never going to lose friends or create enemies over youth sports. That applies to this HSBBW as well. I've had and will continue to have private discussions with some long time patrons of this site and can appreciate their willingness to share their experiences. Just as I've had and will continue to have private conversations with folks who are a part of the PM group and appreciate their willingness to share as well. I can also appreciate the group conversations that we have on the PM.

Just because we're members of a PM group doesn't mean that we've decided to discount anything that's not discussed on the PM.  I can promise you that we don't think that we individually or collectively have all of the answers.  

I could be wrong but I believe the same way that some long time members have developed relationships over the years, know and followed each others children along their journeys, the same thing is happening on the PM. I'm looking forward to meeting some of the folks on the PM this summer and in years to come as I'm sure that some long time members have done in the past. But guess what?  There are also non-PM members that I hope to get to meet at some point too. 

I think it's easy to paint with a wide brush and assume that because we're a part of a PM that we've somehow closed ourselves off from this great resource for information and some of people who can help navigate the process. It's just not the case.  

Even though I no longer have a kid in the game I still frequent the  board just to read the latest on what the current baseball landscape looks like. I also like to see where other posters kids have ended up or where they are in the process. Always willing to add to the conversations if I think they would be meaningful or helpful. Please keep this board alive and moving forward, I for one have gathered much information from others willing to share.

2020dad posted:

 We love our car rides now and those rides are memories in and of themselves.  We have a huge bond built largely around baseball.

This the thing I miss most about baseball since my oldest turned 16. I used to get 45 minutes each way 2 twice a week in the car for practices plus all the weekends....the good news is they were always the best part from the very beginning, we both have fond memories. I even find myself attracted to some of the music I was forced to listen to because I allowed him to control the radio!!

As a matter of fact he was 14 and we were heading home at midnight on a Sunday night after loosing a championship game at Diamond Nation when we had one of the best conversations we ever had, stopped at a diner and had breakfast at close to 1am, rolled in the house sometime after 2...was worth every minute.

The alarm for working going off at 530 the next morning was not pleasant - wish we could do it again.

2020dad posted:

PSS - I will say there has been one very valuable take away I have gotten from these boards.  Someone talked about the car rides.  Confessed that their car rides after games became unpleasant and it was one of his big regrets.  That hit me hard.  I am not a close the windows and scream at my kid in the parking lot type but I was all business once we hit that car.  Why did you do this, why didn't you do that?  How many times have we talked about this...   That post hit me like a ton of bricks and I have become a better baseball dad because of it.  About a week ago he had one of his better games of the year but unfortunately struck out in extra innings with the tying run at second and winning run at first and two outs.  Had the game tying hit in the bottom of 7th to send it to extras and pitched well but all that of course is down the drain when you strike out to end the game.  We got in the car and I didn't say a word.  Just gave him a couple love pats and a squeeze like he was 8 years old again.  And we drove away.  He got the message without a word.  And the message was 'I feel bad for ya kid but I still love you'.  I forget who posted that but I am indebted to them.  We love our car rides now and those rides are memories in and of themselves.  We have a huge bond built largely around baseball.

Spot on with the car rides! The absolute last thing your child wants to do on the way home is hear your criticism & conduct an autopsy of everything relating to their failures during the game that just ended. Be quiet, get him an ice cream, no matter how old they are, & wait for them to bring it up. They always do at some point. It may be the next day. If you can't help yourself, start out pointing out something they did well & compliment their play or the teams play.

If you refrain from hammering them, the result will be a player who has no fear of the big moment. They know, deep down, that it will all be ok regardless of the result & will play tension free. There is no fear of your negativity based upon results. To excel at this game is incredibly difficult, never forget that.

old_school posted:

2020dad posted:

 We love our car rides now and those rides are memories in and of themselves.  We have a huge bond built largely around baseball.

This the thing I miss most about baseball since my oldest turned 16. I used to get 45 minutes each way 2 twice a week in the car for practices plus all the weekends....the good news is they were always the best part from the very beginning, we both have fond memories. I even find myself attracted to some of the music I was forced to listen to because I allowed him to control the radio!!

As a matter of fact he was 14 and we were heading home at midnight on a Sunday night after loosing a championship game at Diamond Nation when we had one of the best conversations we ever had, stopped at a diner and had breakfast at close to 1am, rolled in the house sometime after 2...was worth every minute.

The alarm for working going off at 530 the next morning was not pleasant - wish we could do it again.

Unfortunately, my son falls asleep before we get out of the parking lot so I'm jealous. :-)

Quoted from above:  "I think it's easy to paint with a wide brush and assume that because we're a part of a PM that we've somehow closed ourselves off from this great resource for information and some of people who can help navigate the process. It's just not the case."  

Appreciate that very much -- but I am not saying you all have closed yourselves off from this great site.  Just the flip side.  The PM 2020 group has closed THE REST OF US off from your great conversations.  

Those on here now, those on here in the future.  

I can't believe I am saying this but -- Make HSBW Great Again

(by having one site and not some private side conversations that include a whole bunch of people, not saying PMs should not exist, but not for a multitude like that).  

old_school posted:

2020dad posted:

 We love our car rides now and those rides are memories in and of themselves.  We have a huge bond built largely around baseball.

This the thing I miss most about baseball since my oldest turned 16. I used to get 45 minutes each way 2 twice a week in the car for practices plus all the weekends....the good news is they were always the best part from the very beginning, we both have fond memories. I even find myself attracted to some of the music I was forced to listen to because I allowed him to control the radio!!

As a matter of fact he was 14 and we were heading home at midnight on a Sunday night after loosing a championship game at Diamond Nation when we had one of the best conversations we ever had, stopped at a diner and had breakfast at close to 1am, rolled in the house sometime after 2...was worth every minute.

The alarm for working going off at 530 the next morning was not pleasant - wish we could do it again.

didn't mean to hijack thread but got to tell you I have been facing that reality lately.  That this time next year he will be driving himself.  I already want to cry!!!  I don't even want to think about him going to college!!

Two comments I wanted to comment on...

New posters: have courage; use the search function first, but by all means ask public questions. What's the point of not using all the talent and "corporate memory" built up over the years - but, by all means if you desire, join an annoying PM thread which consumes your time without even being sure you aren't in an echo chamber.

During my early lurking, I saw a few posts where some "old timers" passed along the recommendation that a poster not be too forthcoming with personal details - no actual names, no high school identification, etc. I suppose if you "open up" in a PM then you are comfortable with the participants, but I would still stress that some discretion may be appropriate.  I've asked some questions and posed some hypotheticals (maybe some actuals) that I would not necessarily do if everyone knew who my son was at that point in time.  From the look of the 2020 PM list, it does not appear that this is some vetted list of folks, so please share appropriately.  Conversely, remain somewhat anonymous and go ahead and throw out any question you like on the big board.  If you have been lurking and read some older threads, you should be able to get a feel for some of the more frequent posters and oftentimes put their comments into the proper context.  It was stated that recruiting is not rocket science, but the little things learned here do start to add up and really help fill in gaps and provide for a much sharper focus on what is truly important. 

The number of players involved in "early" recruiting is limited to mostly the elite players and Power 5 conferences.  Just by contrast, there is a thread on this site right now showing the reality of that process, with more than a few expressing shock at its reality. For the vast majority of our son's, it is a huge mistake to associate the early recruiting process of "elite" players with the manner in which many "elite" coaches outside the Power 5 go about their business.

The whole "kids getting offered in 8th grade" is largely, IMO, a distraction on this board.  If your kid is in 7th grade and you think an offer is coming next year, you probably need to be having some serious face-to-face conversations with some really smart folks on what to do - not poking around here to determine whether, in your very specific case, the offer presents the best option to the kid/family for an opportunity that is 4+ years down the road.  However, if your kid grew 6 inches between 9th and 10th grade, ramped up his velocity in 11th grade and is going into the summer thinking college ball is now a possibility, then you should dive in and start soaking up all the information.  Lots of folks in between can get great information here, but the next Bryce Harper may better be served elsewhere.

Twoboys posted:

Quoted from above:  "I think it's easy to paint with a wide brush and assume that because we're a part of a PM that we've somehow closed ourselves off from this great resource for information and some of people who can help navigate the process. It's just not the case."  

Appreciate that very much -- but I am not saying you all have closed yourselves off from this great site.  Just the flip side.  The PM 2020 group has closed THE REST OF US off from your great conversations.  

Those on here now, those on here in the future.  

I can't believe I am saying this but -- Make HSBW Great Again

(by having one site and not some private side conversations that include a whole bunch of people, not saying PMs should not exist, but not for a multitude like that).  

 

 

Obviously, we talk baseball but is the general population here really interested in hearing about any of the following....

Best Mother's Day gift ever

Spring football practice

Recipes for biscuits and gravy (picture included) and other fat generating foods  

Game by game updates from parents - good, bad & ugly 

Hawaiin traditions

Senior year (theatre, not baseball) plays

Flag football

My four year-old and her vivid imagination which includes her "friend" John, who lives in China.

...and other basic Tom Foolery?

Steve A. posted:

2020dad posted:

PSS - I will say there has been one very valuable take away I have gotten from these boards.  Someone talked about the car rides.  Confessed that their car rides after games became unpleasant and it was one of his big regrets.  That hit me hard.  I am not a close the windows and scream at my kid in the parking lot type but I was all business once we hit that car.  Why did you do this, why didn't you do that?  How many times have we talked about this...   That post hit me like a ton of bricks and I have become a better baseball dad because of it.  About a week ago he had one of his better games of the year but unfortunately struck out in extra innings with the tying run at second and winning run at first and two outs.  Had the game tying hit in the bottom of 7th to send it to extras and pitched well but all that of course is down the drain when you strike out to end the game.  We got in the car and I didn't say a word.  Just gave him a couple love pats and a squeeze like he was 8 years old again.  And we drove away.  He got the message without a word.  And the message was 'I feel bad for ya kid but I still love you'.  I forget who posted that but I am indebted to them.  We love our car rides now and those rides are memories in and of themselves.  We have a huge bond built largely around baseball.

Spot on with the car rides! The absolute last thing your child wants to do on the way home is hear your criticism & conduct an autopsy of everything relating to their failures during the game that just ended. Be quiet, get him an ice cream, no matter how old they are, & wait for them to bring it up. They always do at some point. It may be the next day. If you can't help yourself, start out pointing out something they did well & compliment their play or the teams play.

If you refrain from hammering them, the result will be a player who has no fear of the big moment. They know, deep down, that it will all be ok regardless of the result & will play tension free. There is no fear of your negativity based upon results. To excel at this game is incredibly difficult, never forget that.

Son is about 45 days away from the point you reference above.

About two years ago, one of the threads/posts referenced car rides.  At that time, I decided on next "car ride home" I would not say a word about baseball.  It's amazing how much my son talked about the game, how he saw it, what he was thinking.  It has worked ever since.

Freshman son (JV this season) was asked to join varsity for the playoffs as an emergency pitcher.  Won first series, son got to warm up at some point, didn't get in game.  Got him from practice yesterday.  We are only five minutes from school.  He didn't say much on the ride home.  I was thinking maybe he had a bad day, didn't get to do much as varsity readies for next series.  After getting home, he goes to his room.  Few minutes later, he pops his head out and says "Oh yeah!  I got to pitch against the varsity today.  Faced the starting line-up.  Struck out "Bob" on three pitches, fastball, slider and then he I knew he was looking for the slider again, I threw a fastball on the corner and he froze.  They only got one hit off of me.  Nothing hit hard.  Coach was behind me and said nice pitch to me several times.  And they let me play third in the scrimmage.  And the players have nicknames.  Second is BillyTooNice, CF is NoSwag, ...."  And on and on.

I agree that the car ride discussions or the college visits were a very special time while my kids were playing baseball.  But, it is also special on the other side when they are done with baseball.  Open discussions about friends, girlfriends, fiancees, careers, grad school, new hobbies, what former teammates/rivals are doing, and the good ol' times await you as supportive parents.  They'll remember all their baseball struggles and who was there to listen to them....Mom & Dad.  Letting them talk about their baseball game or anything on their mind is the best part of being a baseball parent.  JMO.

Now I feel even better about a decision I made yesterday.  I was swinging by the house to change into jeans before heading to the school to meet the other moms to decorate the baseball locker room for playoffs.  Kid was at home when I got there, by himself in the den eating a Sonic burger.  I knew I'd be late, but thought, "just how often do I get my kid to myself anymore?"  So I sat with him and we talked and laughed for about 20 minutes.  I was late, but don't regret it one bit. Now that he's driving I don't have nearly as much time with him, one on one.     

hshuler posted:

Twoboys posted:

Quoted from above:  "I think it's easy to paint with a wide brush and assume that because we're a part of a PM that we've somehow closed ourselves off from this great resource for information and some of people who can help navigate the process. It's just not the case."  

Appreciate that very much -- but I am not saying you all have closed yourselves off from this great site.  Just the flip side.  The PM 2020 group has closed THE REST OF US off from your great conversations.  

Those on here now, those on here in the future.  

I can't believe I am saying this but -- Make HSBW Great Again

(by having one site and not some private side conversations that include a whole bunch of people, not saying PMs should not exist, but not for a multitude like that).  

 

 

Obviously, we talk baseball but is the general population here really interested in hearing about any of the following....

Best Mother's Day gift ever

Spring football practice

Recipes for biscuits and gravy (picture included) and other fat generating foods  

Game by game updates from parents - good, bad & ugly 

Hawaiin traditions

Senior year (theatre, not baseball) plays

Flag football

My four year-old and her vivid imagination which includes her "friend" John, who lives in China.

...and other basic Tom Foolery?

Two boys here's the thing...  as Shu accurately summarizes we do talk some baseball.  And as I have said there are probably some nuggets in there.  But while it's not all Tom foolery...  it is certainly mostly Tom foolery!!  And in a way we are probably doing you a favor.  As we have joked many times on our PM it's impossible to hijack our thread cause it's hijacked all the time!  It goes in so many weird directions you can't keep up.  These things go 50 pages easy and usually more before being renewed monthly.  Sometimes Caco cuts them off and starts anew after two weeks cause it's just too much.  I am not sure how many here would want to navigate through all that nonsense to get to our very few nuggets!  But I do feel bad about not sharing my biscuits and gravy recipe.  Wife and son just requested last night  so will be making it soon.  I will make sure to take a picture and post the recipe here!  In the meantime try this really really good tamale casserole!  

Whether you have many sources on outside the boards is immaterial to me.  Pretty much every poster brings something to the table, and I find it sad that some think having a "safe place" is necessary.  It says a lot about the board right now. 

I agree that sometimes new posters do get hammered, and that is not a good thing.  Some of the blatant, rigid responses they receive for asking a question, drives them away, and honestly, I cannot blame them.  I do think most of us could work on our civility, and think twice when we get offended.  Even though some posters are quite rigid, they do mean well, and they do have a lot of good advice to offer.

Also, I have never been one to think that I have all the answers, and I did have a fellow poster reach out to me and lend a hand, when I was worried about Ryan's situation.  I am so grateful for his help, and even though it didn't work out, it was really cool that he contacted two D-1's and started a dialogue, visits, and even an offer. 

Someone saying that they would never look for advice on this site, because they know such and such, seems a little short sighted to me.  You just never know when someone may be able to lend a hand, offer great advice, etc.  I would urge everyone to have an open mind and not have that dismissive sort of attitude.  (As always, that is just my opinion.)

hshuler posted:

Twoboys posted:

Quoted from above:  "I think it's easy to paint with a wide brush and assume that because we're a part of a PM that we've somehow closed ourselves off from this great resource for information and some of people who can help navigate the process. It's just not the case."  

Appreciate that very much -- but I am not saying you all have closed yourselves off from this great site.  Just the flip side.  The PM 2020 group has closed THE REST OF US off from your great conversations.  

Those on here now, those on here in the future.  

I can't believe I am saying this but -- Make HSBW Great Again

(by having one site and not some private side conversations that include a whole bunch of people, not saying PMs should not exist, but not for a multitude like that).  

 

 

Obviously, we talk baseball but is the general population here really interested in hearing about any of the following....

Best Mother's Day gift ever

Spring football practice

Recipes for biscuits and gravy (picture included) and other fat generating foods  

Game by game updates from parents - good, bad & ugly 

Hawaiin traditions

Senior year (theatre, not baseball) plays

Flag football

My four year-old and her vivid imagination which includes her "friend" John, who lives in China.

...and other basic Tom Foolery?

Shu is right about all those things being discussed, but even just on the baseball front, the most common thing on the PM is what is highlighted above -- what happened in the game? How'd he do? How's the team doing? Good luck in your playoff game! My son is dealing with an injury. Here's a video clip of some highlights. Is he getting called up to varsity? Etc., etc., etc. I don't think it would be a good fit for the big board. And I mean that in both directions -- I think y'all would be bored out of your minds, and I think the public nature of the big board would inhibit sharing.

In general, I think 2020 hit the nail on the head when he said ". . .if you want to be heard, really heard and want people to pay attention then you have to be just a little kinder." I tell my kids all the time: be kind. If that viewpoint is interpreted as "soft" or not meeting Coach Robe's standards, or whatnot, then I don't know what to tell you.

rynoattack posted:

Whether you have many sources on outside the boards is immaterial to me.  Pretty much every poster brings something to the table, and I find it sad that some think having a "safe place" is necessary.  It says a lot about the board right now. 

I agree that sometimes new posters do get hammered, and that is not a good thing.  Some of the blatant, rigid responses they receive for asking a question, drives them away, and honestly, I cannot blame them.  I do think most of us could work on our civility, and think twice when we get offended.  Even though some posters are quite rigid, they do mean well, and they do have a lot of good advice to offer.

Also, I have never been one to think that I have all the answers, and I did have a fellow poster reach out to me and lend a hand, when I was worried about Ryan's situation.  I am so grateful for his help, and even though it didn't work out, it was really cool that he contacted two D-1's and started a dialogue, visits, and even an offer. 

Someone saying that they would never look for advice on this site, because they know such and such, seems a little short sighted to me.  You just never know when someone may be able to lend a hand, offer great advice, etc.  I would urge everyone to have an open mind and not have that dismissive sort of attitude.  (As always, that is just my opinion.)

Ok we are closing the gap.  I feel real progress here.  We just need to talk about that dismissive label.  Everyone has a different comfort level with different issues.  I can talk politics all day long and not hate the other person at the end.  Its fun for me.  For others its a nightmare.  I have posted my personal information here.  I think if everyone were so transparent maybe we wouldnt have some of these issues.  But others would be very uncomfortable with that.  Some are comfortable asking veritable strangers for advice thats not me.  Just because I am much more comfortable with those that I know when it comes to something serious like that doesn't make me closed minded or dismissive!!  Just the way I deal with things.  One of my dad friends who has a son in the 2020 clsss also has a 2018 who just committed to a big ten for football.  I have talked quite a lot to him about the process and how it works.  I have talked quite a bit to one of our PM guys I feel I have come to know and trust about his football recruiting experiences.  Obviously I have talked to the high school coaches about it.  A former high school coach who is father of one of my sons travel teammates.  Now I am in a holding pattern til we see how he does as a likely varsity starter sophomore year.  If he does well and the future looks bright I will talk to more folks.  But for stuff like that I just like to talk to people I know and trust one on one.  Thats just my MO.  And I think thats what some have to get over.  Its not some sort of deep insult that some don't want advice.  Its just people doing things the way they are comfortable.  

rynoattack posted:

Whether you have many sources on outside the boards is immaterial to me.  Pretty much every poster brings something to the table, and I find it sad that some think having a "safe place" is necessary.  It says a lot about the board right now. 

I agree that sometimes new posters do get hammered, and that is not a good thing.  Some of the blatant, rigid responses they receive for asking a question, drives them away, and honestly, I cannot blame them.  I do think most of us could work on our civility, and think twice when we get offended.  Even though some posters are quite rigid, they do mean well, and they do have a lot of good advice to offer.

Also, I have never been one to think that I have all the answers, and I did have a fellow poster reach out to me and lend a hand, when I was worried about Ryan's situation.  I am so grateful for his help, and even though it didn't work out, it was really cool that he contacted two D-1's and started a dialogue, visits, and even an offer. 

Someone saying that they would never look for advice on this site, because they know such and such, seems a little short sighted to me.  You just never know when someone may be able to lend a hand, offer great advice, etc.  I would urge everyone to have an open mind and not have that dismissive sort of attitude.  (As always, that is just my opinion.)

I agree with everything you said.

With 75 people there are many different personalities and belief systems.  We can't all be treated as one, we aren't even close to one, and one does not speak for all.

RJM posted:

BOF posted:

I agree with you PG, I really miss TRHit. (I can't believe I am typing this after some of the raging battles we had GotWood is a huge loss for completely different reasons. I could resurrect some of my PGxxxx  posts, I think I have the drafts someplace) xxxx = toddlers, oldfarts, etc. With some luck Tim the Enchanter could spice things up, however I know he has been rather busy teaching his flint and tinder classes. 

As long as it does not get too personal, I am a believer that 'through conflict come clarity"  

Did you ever meet TR? Typically, people have an idea of what a person might look like. I was surprised when I met TR. Think Paul Williams circa 1970 in a baseball uniform. He could be grumpy online. He was very cordial in person.

Yeh, you had to have met him in person to truly get his very unconventional style of communication. In fact, I had been reading this board for quite a while before I realized who he was and that I had known him back in Nashville a couple of decades ago. I didn't know him real well back then, but enough to know that a lot of what he said had a tongue-in-cheek purpose and riling people up was what he enjoyed doing.

- Be easy with me. Oh God why are they so mean!

- I think I can handle you being straight forward but be gentle.

- It's not going to matter because I don't have a freaking clue anyway.

- Hey I'm  a freaking nut job so say what ever you want.

- I just want to be loved. So be kinder with me.

- I have thick skin so bring it. And by the way I will bring it right back at ya! But I'm not offended. I always go off when I'm not offended.

- Yeah that's right M-?er ---- CAUTION

- Whatever I agree!

- Old Timer - I know it all and if you don't believe me just ask the other-

- Flush whatever this guys says. And don't touch it because it will stink.

I suggest when a member comes on board they are put through a stringent application process and they are assigned one of these. Current members can be assigned one of these based on their posting history to date. There I solved all this  for you.

Maybe one day we will all have the same icon and we will live in perfect freaking boring harmony!

 So get to steppin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The process does not end with the NLI or college commitment. It begins at that point, in my view.

- Infieldad

I've told many people getting the NLI is just step one. Now the player gets to compete with 35 players who believe they are just as good and deserving to be among the 18-20 who earn the right to contribute during the season. Half will be wrong. 

Some kids have no idea what they're getting into with college ball. The don't understand the challenge, the time commitment and the coach stops smiling once recruiting is over. Some coaches tell parents they will be a dad away from home. They're just as likely to be the kid's worst nightmare (in his mind).

Think it's important to have your eyes wide open during recruiting? It's even more important the kid have his eyes wide open once he arrives at college fall ball. In one fall and maybe spring a player he has to be able to recognize if he made a good decision or a mistake and decide his next move. There's about a fifty-fifty shot the kid made a mistake at the D1 level. 50% of D1 players finish their baseball careers at a college other than their first. 

No one here has all the answers. Not all journeys are the same. But collectively I believe you can find all the answers on this board.

Coach_May posted:

- Be easy with me. Oh God why are they so mean!

- I think I can handle you being straight forward but be gentle.

- It's not going to matter because I don't have a freaking clue anyway.

- Hey I'm  a freaking nut job so say what ever you want.

- I just want to be loved. So be kinder with me.

- I have thick skin so bring it. And by the way I will bring it right back at ya! But I'm not offended. I always go off when I'm not offended.

- Yeah that's right M-?er ---- CAUTION

- Whatever I agree!

- Old Timer - I know it all and if you don't believe me just ask the other-

- Flush whatever this guys says. And don't touch it because it will stink.

I suggest when a member comes on board they are put through a stringent application process and they are assigned one of these. Current members can be assigned one of these based on their posting history to date. There I solved all this  for you.

Maybe one day we will all have the same icon and we will live in perfect freaking boring harmony!

 So get to steppin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coach!  I am ready to assign myself (and a few other posters an icon ) I especially need the toilet.  Where do I find the super secret key to creating them?  [Feel free to assign me the one who does not have a clue]

Lol. I believe I have deserved every single one of these at some point and time.

You expect us to trust a Midwesterner with a Mexican food recipe?

OK, seriously.  The OP is about civility.  Point taken.  I enjoy a good debate now and then and I have seen many debates on this board result in some constructive and informative dialog.  I have also seen some get out of hand.  In fact, I have probably been one of the offenders in a few of those.  I think Swampboy, with his OP, was trying to remind us to keep things along the lines of the former instead of the latter.  I would hope that a good debate is still welcome.   So...

I have respectfully disagreed with some of the POV's of 2020 on a few topics and will likely continue to do so...  2020, I am going to reference a few of your comments to illustrate some of the points I am trying to make.  You and I have had civil debate before, so you know there is no disrespect meant.

This site is a lot of things baseball (and not baseball) and I hope we can get back to the variety, humor and heated but usually civil debate environment that we had in the past.  But, we also have to keep in mind what this site is MOSTLY about.  It is the single best resource for helping people navigate the years of baseball leading up to HS and the recruiting process for playing beyond HS.  The pool of participants and contributors is unreal - players of all ages and levels, coaches across all levels, RC's, umpires, trainers, scouts, pitching instructors, hitting instructors, MLB/MiLB folks, parents of players that have experienced every possible scenario at every level, baseball/sports industry folks, people who run the biggest recruiting events in the country, alumni from colleges across the nation, and on and on.  There are folks from each sector ready and willing to provide helpful insight.  We often get asked here if there is a HSBBW for soccer or football or any other sport.  There isn't.  This site is truly special and unique and worth preserving.  So, while someone like 2020 may "not give a rats ass" about the help he may be able to get here and may see little value due to all his other connections, that does not diminish the value of the site to the vast majority of others.  So, some of us feel it is worth while to protect what this site is about.

Sure, it is fine that there is a specific "2020ish" PM.  But there is value in the opinion those stating that it would be a shame that current and future posters will not benefit from any experiences that may be shared behind a private screen.  That shared info is the heart of the site.

Sure, I get that similar age groups want to share experiences and can, in some instances, relate to each other better.  There is some validity that things are different today than they were even five years ago.  But there is also validity in that there is still so much they can learn from those who have gone before them.  It also works both ways... when the newest crowd of folks in the middle of the process shares what is happening in today's environment, it is insightful to those who are a few years removed and helps them keep perspective with their guidance. 

Sure, I get that some have a hard time with the harsh responses to newbies.  But, the fact of the matter is that there is usually purpose to that approach.  One of the biggest issues with the whole recruiting process is that players and parents don't realize how hard it can be... to find the right school, to find the right travel team, to have a good recruiting plan, to balance college and baseball, to stand out among other players, etc., etc.  So often, parents put too much pressure on themselves and their kids at a young age.  Many things tend to seem so important at age 8, age 11, age 14 until their kid reaches 16 or 18 or 22 and they realize how unimportant some of the things were at the younger ages.  Parents are used to being told by friends and other parents "your son is so good", "he is going to be a great xxx player", blah, blah blah.  Often, with these situations, a hard dose of reality is REALLY what is most needed.    Is it overdone at times?  Sure.  Can things be worded more PC?  Yeah.  Will it have the same effect?  Not always.  I agree that sometimes people will be less inclined to post or will leave when they get a harsh response but are they are still getting a valuable message that is perhaps just what is needed?  What they do with it is, of course, up to them.  I know of several contributors here (myself included) who have experienced some harsh response, taken the blow, learned from it and latched on to the value of the site and it's community.  Realize it or not, without the direct approach and methods of those such as TPM and TRHit, this site would be less effective in helping those truly seeking it.

"The recruiting process is not rocket science"  Well, I've been around competitive sports my entire life, including coaching at the HS and travel level the last many years.  I have been in the industry and exposed to high level college and professional athletes quite a bit. Yet, I find so may aspects of the process quite difficult to navigate.  Each player has his own unique set of circumstances, skill sets, personality, career aspirations, perceptions of college, financial situation, support cast, timing, health, luck, etc.  There is the small percentage of top prospects that will get plenty of attention (and even they have their challenges).  For the rest, it can be a whirlwind of a process, even with very good guidance.  Most never get that guidance and can only wish they had accessed the resource that is HSBBW earlier.  Maybe it's not rocket science but there are a hell of a lot of tricks and pitfalls.  The consequences of making the wrong move can be quite costly.  And, if HSBBW did not exist, I would absolutely recommend a player/parent pay a reasonable fee to a reputable service to help guide them through the process.  But, HSBBW DOES exist!!!!   Let's keep it awesome.

PS - I am not discounting that the 2020 group has done a good job explaining why much of there dialog may not be suited for the larger group.  There are other ways to set this up without losing valuable information.

RJM posted:

The process does not end with the NLI or college commitment. It begins at that point, in my view.

- Infieldad

I've told many people getting the NLI is just step one. Now the player gets to compete with 35 players who believe they are just as good and deserving to be among the 18-20 who earn the right to contribute during the season. Half will be wrong. 

Some kids have no idea what they're getting into with college ball. The don't understand the challenge, the time commitment and the coach stops smiling once recruiting is over. Some coaches tell parents they will be a dad away from home. They're just as likely to be the kid's worst nightmare (in his mind).

Think it's important to have your eyes wide open during recruiting? It's even more important the kid have his eyes wide open once he arrives at college fall ball. In one fall and maybe spring a player he has to be able to recognize if he made a good decision or a mistake and decide his next move. There's about a fifty-fifty shot the kid made a mistake at the D1 level. 50% of D1 players finish their baseball careers at a college other than their first. 

 

Which is why I think it's wise to take your time, not rush and make as many visit as possible to schools under consideration. 

IMO, a UV which includes a trip to a football game is not a realistic depiction of campus life. I want my son to see the school on a normal day. I want him to watch practices to understand what the coaches are like.

This may sound cheesy but I want my son to play for a good man first and also a good coach. If he can play for a coach who truly cares about him as a person and has his best interest at heart, I'll be satisfied. That's doesn't mean that the coach is not tough because I want someone who can also get the best of his ability out of him. 

Coach_May posted:

- Be easy with me. Oh God why are they so mean!

- I think I can handle you being straight forward but be gentle.

- It's not going to matter because I don't have a freaking clue anyway.

- Hey I'm  a freaking nut job so say what ever you want.

- I just want to be loved. So be kinder with me.

- I have thick skin so bring it. And by the way I will bring it right back at ya! But I'm not offended. I always go off when I'm not offended.

- Yeah that's right M-?er ---- CAUTION

- Whatever I agree!

- Old Timer - I know it all and if you don't believe me just ask the other-

- Flush whatever this guys says. And don't touch it because it will stink.

I suggest when a member comes on board they are put through a stringent application process and they are assigned one of these. Current members can be assigned one of these based on their posting history to date. There I solved all this  for you.

Maybe one day we will all have the same icon and we will live in perfect freaking boring harmony!

 So get to steppin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This made me spit my coffee!  Very funny!