College coaches - Integrity

Great topic, Texan. I hope people include in and out of state colleges...

Dean Stotz - Stanford

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
Not just a listing of reputations obtained third hand.

Not to take away from the topic, but what an ironic statement coming from you.

KG, I guess you are just incapable of providing any useful information. What a shame.

I guess I'll spend my 2000th post to say....

You two are better than this.

Some folks complain about not having constructive, baseball pertinent threads. Then someone starts one and what happens? Very little participation (thanks are due to dbg, however).

Of course, one of the thread hijackers steps in, though...

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:
KG, I guess you are just incapable of providing any useful information. What a shame.

Guess so, shame on me.

Actually, give me your name and your son's as well. I will give you both a plug the next time my phone rings from one of those coaches with integrity. Need to return some calls as we speak.

PD,

I agree with you. I have lately stooped to a level that I shouldn't have.

But on my first post with this thread, again I speak nothing but facts. As Texan's only know-all about me is "third-hand" information. I've grown tired of his comments towards me.

If he disregards my thoughts or opinions, I can handle that. I am educated enough to realize he won't be the only one.

But when he makes assumptions on third hand information and posts them, I will not stand for it.

Finally, if Texan wishes to clear anything up that he might feel need for, he can surely contact me and I will be more than glad to meet with him in person to discuss anything he needs answers on.

Steering the thread back to its original course, so far we have:

Dean Stotz - Stanford
Mark Johnson, SHSU

others?

Rob Childress, Matt Deggs....Texas A&M.

Dave Jorn....Arkansas.

All the Baylor coaches impressed me as 'straight up' guys.

Tony Baldwin - Michigan State
Chuck Hazzard - Pepperdine
Mik Aoki - Boston College

None of these guys are unique in the industry. Just as in any vocation, actions taken by a small minority can affect the reputation of many.

I think this is a terrible topic. Unless a person has played for a respective coach, knows him personally, does a tremendous amount of research, I don't think they sould be making a judgement on someones integrity; especially behind some monikor on a message board.

We have spent some time around Aaron Weintraub, the pitching coach from Cedar Valley. I can't speak for the program there but Coach Weintraub is a stand up guy and his input helped my son make some tough decisions that appear to have been good ones. He also spoke to college coaches on my son's behalf. Great guy.

Ditton Krace4:
From my experience w/Coach Weintraub he is in baseball for the right reasons and has helped a lot of players on and off the field.

In fact, Coach Weintraub is in the process of publishing a book on the mental approach to baseball, I along with several others have had the opportunity to preview the rough draft of this book and it is GOOD STUFF!

quote:

Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
I think this is a terrible topic. Unless a person has played for a respective coach, knows him personally, does a tremendous amount of research, I don't think they sould be making a judgement on someones integrity; especially behind some monikor on a message board.

This is not a negative thread. Not asking for who is lacking integrity.

From the origin of this thread:
"...who are the college coaches that have demonstrated good integrity? Not just a listing of reputations obtained third hand. Rather who are coaches with whom posters have fairly close knowledge that have a track record of honesty and uprightness in their dealings?"

How can that be terrible? I don't understand how someone saying something positive about a college coach can be terrible. Please explain.

quote:

Not just a listing of reputations obtained third hand.

I think you adequately explained yourself in your original post, Texan. At least, I didn't get the impression you were looking for bashing BUT praise to those that deserve and have earned it.

Others?

I'm not sure I have "any-hand" knowledge on a college coach. If I do, it's by chance.

But, congrats on number 2000 PD!

Texan,
To answer your questions about why I think this is a bad topic.

I just think that you have to know a person very well to be able to comment about his integrity one way or another good or bad.
In addition just because a person or recruit has a good or bad experience one way or another may have nothing to do with the coaches integrity.

How about we bring the topic closer to home and add "local parents, high school coaches, select coaches, who have demonstrated integrity and have a track record of honesty and uprightness in their dealings" to the discussion.

Do we assume if a person is not mentioned that he has no integrity?

I don't think that that was the intent of your topic but I have seen so many topics end up so "off topic" and ugly that this one justs seems to me to be a ticking timebomb waiting to go off.

Lastly I don't think ANYBODY is qualified to voice an opinion about a persons integrity, good or bad, if they don't have the b*lls to do so under their own name.

JMO

H & U,

Agree with your entire post.

Note- I am very close with the coaches I mentioned.

This particular topic and topics of late... including all of the negativity associated with them... have FINALLY succeeded in making me realize that I am wasting way too much time in the Texas Forum and maybe on the Internet in general.

It's off to the Recruiting Forum... General Items Forum... maybe a little CNN.com for a while. Too bad since I have made some really great friends in the Texas Forum and have learned a LOT from some of you!

In my opinion, the idea that one has to use his/her real name to post with credibility is off-base. There are people here that do not use their real names but their posts are always above board -- 100% of the time. Because some hide behind nicknames to spread....stuff....should not imply that it is a universal trait. Making that judgment reflects a bias that you are arguing against, Tom.

I think it is safe to assume that the names posted on this thread represent men that have demonstrated integrity in dealing with at least some kids. Obviously, we don't know whether they vote democrat or what movies they rent. But they have shown a degree of integrity, or they wouldn't be mentioned. Also, no one should look here for a comprehensive list of men with integrity --- it is simply a way to communicate positive experiences to those that are involved in the recruting process. Many great men will not be mentioned --- rather than assume the worst, I assume that posters here simply have not had recent contact with all coaches.

I like knowing ahead of time that Coach X has been upright, honest, and fair with some of you.

JMO.

-Randy

Leaving the message board may be a good move for some. Some have already left -- many are & will be missed. The bottom line is....do you find information here that will help your family during the recruiting process? Or...is it a hobby/entertainment for you? I know many get tired of the....stuff (there's that word again)....but I think I'll hang around, waiting for people to come to their senses. At least for a few more years!

PD,

You always seem to discuss things with a clear thought process. I respect that.

Hopefully you don't hold anything against me for using this board as a pure time waster though. Entertainment of sorts.

But I can say I simply comment on facts through experience and never assume while posting.

And always come with a real name just in case.

It can be both .....informative and entertaining....some days more informative than others and some days are more entertaining than others....

If it was all informative it might get boring...if it was all entertaining then it would be uninformative.

I can honestly say that I have learned something from each and every active poster. There are definitely different "styles of delivery" but lots of good information none-the-less.

quote:

Originally posted by cheapseats:

If it was all informative it might get boring...if it was all entertaining then it would be uninformative.

Yogi Berra couldn't have said it better.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Guthrie:
PD,

You always seem to discuss things with a clear thought process. I respect that.

Maybe you have a future as a sports psychologist.

I said a long time ago that this place is a hobby for me....and entertainment....we should all confess to using it as a time-waster on occasion. I'll be the first to acknowledge that of my 2000+ posts only 1 or 2 might be considered worthwhile.

Who's she calling old????

hook, line and sinker......

PD,
When you have people on here slamming kids, their parents, their high school coaches, in post after post on various unrelated topics, I just thought that this topic was a bad idea. JMO.

You say that if someone is not mentioned that you would not assume the worst but assume that posters on here have not had recent contact with those coaches. I would say that everybody may not be as rational as you. Heck on one topic recently some were concerned that people may not patronize a certain local baseball establishment because they didn't like or had a distate for what an employee or employees might post. Not very rational thinking in my opinion.

It wasn't my intent to make this a negative topic. If my posts have done so then sorry. I'll just simply skip over this topic when browsing for reasons previously stated. No big deal.

h&u, if someone has demonstrated integrity in their dealings with me, I am glad to tell other people about that experience. It doesn't mean they are perfect. In fact, we all know that no one on this earth is perfect. So do we say that no one has integrity? I think not.

Is asking that question on this forum going to give perfect results? Of course not.

But some of us have boys who are, or will be, in the recruiting process. And it would be nice to know if someone out there feels that Coach X has shown integrity.

If you don't feel comfortable saying something positive about a coach because you haven't known him intimately all your life, then don't. That is okay.

I am not concerned about adding parents or HS coaches to this, because that isn't pertinent to my reason for starting this thread. If someone wants that info, then let them start another thread.

If we have reached the point that we can't say nice things about people...

Texan I have a question and this is for discussion only. If an excellent academic and baseball school offered say your son 80% but the integrity of the coaching staff was not beyond approach, what would be your actions keeping in mind there are excellent programs out there but the staff might not meet the elements of your initial question.

H&U -- I know your motives are straightforward. Just for the record, my previous "irrational thinking" was more an interpretation of the ongoing discussion concerning DBAT. I too think the business-impact concern is a relatively minor issue.

And you're right to the extent that some will look for a name in this discussion and jump to conclusions if it is absent.

SWAC - There are a couple of programs where I would not want my son to go, regardless of the offer, because of things the coach has done in the past. What good is an 80% offer (if there ever was such a thing) the first year, if the coach is going to set it to 0% the next year?

Is there any way possible to keep this positive?

I'll turn this around. Texan son gets an absolutely incredible offer (50%) from a school. I'm not that familiar with the coach. But I find some folks that say he is a person who has demonstrated integrity. Will that help Texan son make a better decision?

Texan,

The recruiting process will afford you enought time to get to know the coaches well enough to make the right decision.

That's what the official visit is for. The visit is usually structured so that you and your son will meet the coaches, academic advisors, other players, players in other sports, etc.

If they are interested in your son playing for them, they will try to show you all the benefits of their program and school.

But, get ready, they will talk with your son more than you.

From my experience, the decision to cut the scholly from 80% to 0% the next year is not because the coach is the demon so commonlhy portrayed on these forums.

It is most likely because the player did not make the contribution that was anticipated.

Contribution does not mean only effort. It means wins and K's for pitchers, hits and rbi's for hitters. Results, in other words.

In college your son will be judged on performance and rewarded accordingly.

And, the standard will be shockingly, high.

A sobering fact for some..............

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:
In college your son will be judged on performance and rewarded accordingly.

Look forward to that. And couldn't ask for more.

I believe on the theory of don't always believe what you hear or read................

In that case, make judgements for yourself.

There are several people that were portrayed as "good guys" with the Rangers organzization. After spending personal time around them I believed the complete opposite. And visa versa.

People have agenda's and support who has supported them. Doesn't mean it will most likely happen in your particular case.

Again, try to judge things such as integrity on your own experiences if possible.

JMHO.

quote:

In college your son will be judged on performance and rewarded accordingly.

A sobering fact for some..............

That is the bottomline truth. You have at best a 1 year evaluation and that's it. If you get that.

As for the rest of this topic, this board is what it is...a message forum. Nothing more and nothing less. Personally, I've learned to seperate the wheat from the chaff on this board. Speaking of integrity, I've learned just from my few years, who has it and who doesn't on this board.

As for college coaches with integrity, you have to do you homework.

FO- I think your post is a great point. It shows why we as the students and the baseball players need to find a situation that fits us academically, athletically, socially, etc. I know this may get people going-which is never my intent- but take this hypothetical. If a kid gets a full ride to a baseball powerhouse, but the school is not up to par academically; socially; etc, what should he do? In my situation I'd find a fit at a school that if I walked onto the field one day and tore a ligament in my arm, I'd be fine for the rest of my life. I've heard many stories dealing with kids that go to upper level baseball schools and all they do is transfer from one to another each year. I personally couldn't live like that. This (the importance of finding a school that truly fits you or your kid) could go for all sports. I truly feel that if a kid has the drive, ability, and a little bit of luck, the pro scouts will find him... no-matter where he goes to school.