This past spring, I paid $1,800 for a cheap uniform (just a cap and pull over shirt) and 6 tournaments - to play on an academy team (meaning paid coaches) based in NJ. (Granted, the tournaments were all nice venues.) Is that on the high side, reasonable, or low - based on your experience? Related, what would you be willing to pay to play - and what are your expectations in terms of what you are getting for your money?
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What age? How many kids on the team? When you say "academy", does that include winter training & practices.....or did you just show up at the tourneys, play then head home? Typically I'd think you'd get a couple hats and jerseys and at least a pair of pants. If the paid coaches were qualified (meaning HS or college coach) the $1800 probably isn't ridiculous, if it includes some training. If not, I'd say it's probably a little steep
What level of team? Sound like the run of the mill travel team. Im in Chicago but thats in the ballpark price wise. Does the fee include anything else like off season training, a training facility, etc. If it does I would say pricing is right. If it only includes the cheap uni's a couple of in season practices and the tourney's your probably on the high side. IMO if its only the tourney's and uni's price should be around $1,200.
I will say that I found the higher you get in travel ball (ie showcase teams vs travel teams) the pricing actually goes down some. A few reasons for this, sponsorships, lower level teams funding the upper level teams, etc.
Buckeye 2015 posted:What age? How many kids on the team? When you say "academy", does that include winter training & practices.....or did you just show up at the tourneys, play then head home? Typically I'd think you'd get a couple hats and jerseys and at least a pair of pants. If the paid coaches were qualified (meaning HS or college coach) the $1800 probably isn't ridiculous, if it includes some training. If not, I'd say it's probably a little steep
14U this year. And, 14 kids on the team. This does not include winter training. But, it does include one team practice each week. Basically, it’s the cost of playing the tournaments and having one experienced coach running the team during the game.
In my mind, I saw this as $600 to play the tournaments, $85 for the cap and shirt, maybe $350 going towards coach’s salary and the rest (around $750) going towards the facility as profit and helping to keep their lights on. (It’s a big facility in terms of space.) These are all just guesses on my part.
Your breakdown of the cost is probably accurate. This is the reason we stay away from academy teams. Why not try to find a team that won't have all those fees going towards the facility/owner's pockets?
I never paid that much. From 13u to 16u four of us (former college players/two pro) coached our kids and the team not looking for profit. The big draw was the pitching coach made it to AAA. At 17u the showcase team was heavily subsidized.
PABaseball posted:Your breakdown of the cost is probably accurate. This is the reason we stay away from academy teams. Why not try to find a team that won't have all those fees going towards the facility/owner's pockets?
That's the rub. We (both my son and myself) feel that the group he's aligned with is a perfect fit in terms of instruction and culture. We've been at other places and feel that no one else offers what we're getting there. Also, the facility is located where it's not a hardship for us to get there several times a week during off-season training.
Based on what you posted, I'd say you're paying too much. Why would you want to help fund the academy's facility if you get no benefit. With 14 kids, 1 cheap hat and jersey and 6 tourneys, I'd say $1200 would be a good figure...and even at that maybe a little high with only one paid coach....unless he is VERY qualified. Curious why an academy team wouldn't use the academy facilities?
Buckeye 2015 posted:Based on what you posted, I'd say you're paying too much. Why would you want to help fund the academy's facility if you get no benefit. With 14 kids, 1 cheap hat and jersey and 6 tourneys, I'd say $1200 would be a good figure...and even at that maybe a little high with only one paid coach....unless he is VERY qualified. Curious why an academy team wouldn't use the academy facilities?
We still train at the facility in the off-season. It's just not included in the $1,800. We pay separately for the off-season.
Buckeye 2015 posted:Curious why an academy team wouldn't use the academy facilities?
agreed. most the teams who play for academy teams around here have full and free access to their facilities.
Francis7 posted:That's the rub. We (both my son and myself) feel that the group he's aligned with is a perfect fit in terms of instruction and culture. We've been at other places and feel that no one else offers what we're getting there. Also, the facility is located where it's not a hardship for us to get there several times a week during off-season training.
what is the rub? maybe you are paying a hair on the side but...and this is a big but - your son is comfortable and your opinions are "it is a perfect fit" plus it appears to be convenient for you to get there hmmmm
listen I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion but what you described for what your thoughts are on the program it seems like a good fit. You move somewhere else, drive farther, not be as satisfied and save 400 bucks - I hope the sarcasm is clear there.
if your son is any good and you live in the NJ market this amount of money is not going to be overly relevant to the overall cost of what you are going to spend.
old_school posted:Francis7 posted:That's the rub. We (both my son and myself) feel that the group he's aligned with is a perfect fit in terms of instruction and culture. We've been at other places and feel that no one else offers what we're getting there. Also, the facility is located where it's not a hardship for us to get there several times a week during off-season training.
what is the rub? maybe you are paying a hair on the side but...and this is a big but - your son is comfortable and your opinions are "it is a perfect fit" plus it appears to be convenient for you to get there hmmmm
listen I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion but what you described for what your thoughts are on the program it seems like a good fit. You move somewhere else, drive farther, not be as satisfied and save 400 bucks - I hope the sarcasm is clear there.
if your son is any good and you live in the NJ market this amount of money is not going to be overly relevant to the overall cost of what you are going to spend.
I hear exactly what you are saying and understand it. But, eventually, there has to be a line. (That's why I was asking if people thought it was too much and how much to they pay...)
this group will skew to the cheap side of what it costs, plus you are in NJ that is not on the cheap side of cost of living. For better or worse you are living in an expensive area(unless you are in the middle the pine barrens or possible the northwestern corner), the same people who think you paying to much for baseball would be dumbstruck by your property tax bill!!!
I think once you get to HS you don't need to do winter training with the travel team. It is high school time. The school will train as a team and instead of going to that second team practice, work on your own time (lessons, cages once a week, throwing, etc). Leave the travel ball in the summer/fall
On that note, if you are paying for an academy team you need to have free access to that facility 7 days a week. That's part of the inflated cost of playing for the academy - you don't have to pay for winter training/cages because it is already included in the cost. They don't have the rent the facility so they shouldn't be charging extra.
As for the coaching, once you get into the HS travel scene, there should be a reasonable expectation that every coach is experienced/qualified. Daddy ball ends in HS. Sure some are better than others and have more connections, but they're almost all good (or at least experienced) coaches as you start moving up the ladder.
If you think this program is the right fit and see them getting your son to where he needs to be as far as recruitment/development then you are in a fine spot if you're ok with the price tag.
old_school posted:the same people who think you paying to much for baseball would be dumbstruck by your property tax bill!!!
LOL. Amen!
PABaseball posted:I think once you get to HS you don't need to do winter training with the travel team. It is high school time. The school will train as a team and instead of going to that second team practice, work on your own time (lessons, cages once a week, throwing, etc). Leave the travel ball in the summer/fall
I disagree, this is completely individual school related. it depends on the HS coaches, demands and program. They vary greatly.
On that note, if you are paying for an academy team you need to have free access to that facility 7 days a week. That's part of the inflated cost of playing for the academy - you don't have to pay for winter training/cages because it is already included in the cost. They don't have the rent the facility so they shouldn't be charging extra.
This I do agree with to some level, not free and not 7 day a week but some access and pretty liberal access for a winter fee. IMO opinion a structured winter training with the Academy team is far superior to the HS for about 500. That typically is twice a week for 1 hour or 1.5 hours.
As for the coaching, once you get into the HS travel scene, there should be a reasonable expectation that every coach is experienced/qualified. Daddy ball ends in HS. Sure some are better than others and have more connections, but they're almost all good (or at least experienced) coaches as you start moving up the ladder.
Agreed
If you think this program is the right fit and see them getting your son to where he needs to be as far as recruitment/development then you are in a fine spot if you're ok with the price tag.
I don't know what part of PA you are from but I am very familiar with the Eastern part of the state and NJ. What the OP is quoting is slightly high but not out of line at all and not even close to the top of the market.
old_school posted:Francis7 posted:That's the rub. We (both my son and myself) feel that the group he's aligned with is a perfect fit in terms of instruction and culture. We've been at other places and feel that no one else offers what we're getting there. Also, the facility is located where it's not a hardship for us to get there several times a week during off-season training.
what is the rub? maybe you are paying a hair on the side but...and this is a big but - your son is comfortable and your opinions are "it is a perfect fit" plus it appears to be convenient for you to get there hmmmm
listen I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion but what you described for what your thoughts are on the program it seems like a good fit. You move somewhere else, drive farther, not be as satisfied and save 400 bucks - I hope the sarcasm is clear there.
if your son is any good and you live in the NJ market this amount of money is not going to be overly relevant to the overall cost of what you are going to spend.
Yeah, I think this is key... good fit in terms of instruction, culture, comfort, convenience... already compared to other local alternatives... if it's in the budget, sounds like a great option for now.
Similar question came to mind for me as others, though... you said he pays extra for facility use during off season. How about during the season in question? Can he make use of it other than the one day a week practice? That would be the clear value add that would make it a no-brainer from a value standpoint.
Your breakdown is probably pretty accurate. You can probably shop and find non-academy/facility related options that are a bit cheaper but you'd have to weigh the cost benefits each way.
I live in NJ and I don't find this cost to be expensive at all...there are others that are much more. However it sounds like you like the facility and the instructors, and the team isn't that great. Why not de-couple the training from the team...train there and play for a team that is not associated with an academy. There are plenty of good ones in the area.
CABBAGEDAD, K9 - that's an option (train there and play somewhere else). But, it's costly. They charge $2,400 a year (on a contract) to train there IF YOU PLAY ON THEIR TEAM. If you don't play for the team, it's $2,900 a year (on the contract). If you want to go month to month, they will charge you $365 a month (which is INSANE, IMO.) So, if you want to train there and play somewhere else, you really need to find a team who will just charge you to play and not also force you into a training package.
I had my son stop after 13U when fees went from $2300 to $3500. He went back to travel ball this past summer, where it cost $1700 for PO. I gotta get out of CT!!
I get the impression neither his travel team or high school program competes. Part of growing as a player involves being placed in competitive situations.
Maybe it’s time to look for the best team he can play, the best catching instruction you can afford and the best hitting instruction you can afford. It might mean a different place for each solution. Maybe the current facility is part of the equation.
Both my sons played for an academy team that is a high end organization in both quality and college connections midatlantic region. We played at the same places as Frances7 I would assume - Diamond Nation, PG, Baseball Heaven, Maple Zone, Dynamic - well respected organization
Winter training 2x per week - 5-1 player coach ration - 550.00
Summer - coaches, 8 tournaments, one showcase, 2x week practice 1600.00
Fall - 5 tournaments, 2x week practice - 1100.00
Uni with pants and hat was 100 or something.
Individual lessons extra if you wanted them, you could always schedule time indoors to work alone of with other players with short notice unless something odd was going 7 days a week.
So basically for $3,300.00 you had 9 months of baseball / training 2x a week or more depending the time of year.
This was not cheap nor was it the top of the price point. It was high quality and worth the money IMO.
old_school posted:PABaseball posted:I think once you get to HS you don't need to do winter training with the travel team. It is high school time. The school will train as a team and instead of going to that second team practice, work on your own time (lessons, cages once a week, throwing, etc). Leave the travel ball in the summer/fall
I disagree, this is completely individual school related. it depends on the HS coaches, demands and program. They vary greatly.
On that note, if you are paying for an academy team you need to have free access to that facility 7 days a week. That's part of the inflated cost of playing for the academy - you don't have to pay for winter training/cages because it is already included in the cost. They don't have the rent the facility so they shouldn't be charging extra.
This I do agree with to some level, not free and not 7 day a week but some access and pretty liberal access for a winter fee. IMO opinion a structured winter training with the Academy team is far superior to the HS for about 500. That typically is twice a week for 1 hour or 1.5 hours.
As for the coaching, once you get into the HS travel scene, there should be a reasonable expectation that every coach is experienced/qualified. Daddy ball ends in HS. Sure some are better than others and have more connections, but they're almost all good (or at least experienced) coaches as you start moving up the ladder.
Agreed
If you think this program is the right fit and see them getting your son to where he needs to be as far as recruitment/development then you are in a fine spot if you're ok with the price tag.
I don't know what part of PA you are from but I am very familiar with the Eastern part of the state and NJ. What the OP is quoting is slightly high but not out of line at all and not even close to the top of the market.
Originally from PA, NJ now.
In NJ, the HS coaches cannot coach their players after summer ball ends. So for winter training many HS coaches have the guys at these facilities train their players. Usually a 2 hour session on the weekends. Going under the assumption that the academy guys will be doing the training, there really isn't a need to train at a separate facility. Especially when the HS will charge 200-400 for probably 8-10 sessions
When I say access to the facility I mean there should be a deal where you can rent a tunnel for an hour once or twice a week. I don't think they should have 24/7 access either, I just meant they should have access on any of the days as long as it isn't booked.
As for the price, I still think it is expensive. When I say expensive, I mean expensive to play on an average team. The cost itself isn't all that bad. I will get ripped for saying this, but I don't think many of the academy teams are very good or do a ton for their kids in recruiting (exceptions obviously). I also think many of the good academy teams will bring in a whole new group of players at 16/17/18 and have the A team play for small costs while the younger and lower level teams pay heavy fees for the top teams.
Makes sense. Top teams will have committed players. Those players can be posted on the site bringing in the parents of younger players who wish to play college ball.
RJM posted:I get the impression neither his travel team or high school program competes. Part of growing as a player involves being placed in competitive situations.
That is a concern. When it's very expensive, you lose players. Then, what happens is that you end up with people who can afford it rather than just having the most talented players. Some people will pay anything to say their kid plays for "elite travel program" because that's the only way they will ever get on that team. And, when you have part of your roster who are there because they bought their way on, and for that reason only, it's hard to compete with the teams who have a roster full of talented players.
I'm in NY, that price seems reasonable to me. For my 2020 PO we are paying more for the 2019 summer season. It's been worth it for us, coach has college contacts. The organization has a good amount of kids that go on to play in college each year. We play a few PG events, and mostly college showcases. Glad this will be the last year for that.
1800 sounds like the going rate, but not having winter training included strikes me a little odd. My 2018 played for two teams throughout his travel time and both included winter training and summer ball in their cost (1600-2200)...the later team that he played on during the last few years of HS provided 2-3 practices during the week in-season in addition to any extra hitting he felt he wanted to have (t-work and then slip in the cage for soft toss or machine)...winter training was also about 3 days per week, but they could attend more if wanting too(hitters only)...he also volunteers at a baseball camp once a year (past two) and gets to go hit either with other age groups or by himself whenever it is open. He's back for break and going on Friday to get some hitting in.
Bottom line is that if you feel comfortable with the coaches and they are TRULY there to see your son make it to the next level (and there are indications that your son can play at the next level), then a few extra dollars will not hurt...
My kid is electing to go with a local new travel program. Actually I made him choose, the budget: spend 3K for a known academy team or go with the more economical local team with lots of practices and I will fork the extra cash on training and pay for a self serving showcase to see if he can qualify for those big name showcases. I reminded him either way there will be no college offers so choose wisely. He made the correct choice imo
Francis7 posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:What age? How many kids on the team? When you say "academy", does that include winter training & practices.....or did you just show up at the tourneys, play then head home? Typically I'd think you'd get a couple hats and jerseys and at least a pair of pants. If the paid coaches were qualified (meaning HS or college coach) the $1800 probably isn't ridiculous, if it includes some training. If not, I'd say it's probably a little steep
14U this year. And, 14 kids on the team. This does not include winter training. But, it does include one team practice each week. Basically, it’s the cost of playing the tournaments and having one experienced coach running the team during the game.
In my mind, I saw this as $600 to play the tournaments, $85 for the cap and shirt, maybe $350 going towards coach’s salary and the rest (around $750) going towards the facility as profit and helping to keep their lights on. (It’s a big facility in terms of space.) These are all just guesses on my part.
The tourney prices are listed on the websites. I can say that some fall tourneys were as much as $2500 for a team to enter. Split 14 ways that's $180 for that one tourney. Check the prices of the tourneys, and get a breakdown of costs from the coaches on what went to what.
CaCO3Girl posted:The tourney prices are listed on the websites. I can say that some fall tourneys were as much as $2500 for a team to enter. Split 14 ways that's $180 for that one tourney. Check the prices of the tourneys, and get a breakdown of costs from the coaches on what went to what.
Maybe things are different in other parts of the country but the method I am familiar with is you get XYZ tournaments, coaching, field time etc for X amount of dollars for a set period of time. I have never heard of anyone asking for a breakdown or of any organization providing one.
When you buy any product do you get a breakdown of cost, overhead, transportation, marketing and so on? Nope you pay a cost for a service or goods, you accept it and purchase or don't and move on. it is pretty simple.
There are a few programs that either don’t charge or charge for minimal expenses. They tend to be the National teams with sponsorship and with b and c level teams to financially support the elite team.
Folks should understand that a lot of travel teams will bring in players for tournaments that you have never seen at a practice..never seen on a roster..who will have their travel, hotel and meals paid for by the team treasury...will start while your boy rides the bench..and the fee you have paid will subsidize all of that..saw that on so many travel teams..ask questions of the coach before joining any team and writing that check..it's a damn disgrace what goes on..and take charge of your son's recruiting...don't depend on any HS or travel coach.
PS..And that goes for the 8000 dollar travel teams and the 1200 dollar ones...they all do it.
CatcherDadNY posted:Folks should understand that a lot of travel teams will bring in players for tournaments that you have never seen at a practice..never seen on a roster..who will have their travel, hotel and meals paid for by the team treasury...will start while your boy rides the bench..and the fee you have paid will subsidize all of that..saw that on so many travel teams..ask questions of the coach before joining any team and writing that check..it's a damn disgrace what goes on..and take charge of your son's recruiting...don't depend on any HS or travel coach.
I only know of this practice with heavily subsidized teams. However, it does not make it right.
There are different flavors...On my son's team last year there were no guest players as a rule. However when the starting SS went down, the coach went out and got a guest starting caliber shortstop to replace him....much to the chagrin of the backup MIF.
