Curveball @ 9 yrs.

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Rocket,

I read this topic with great interest. It has come up many times before - but is always interesting.

The only question I have is - what exactly is the motivation for (and desired result of) having a 9 year old throw a curve ball?

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What is the motivation for and desired result of
having a 9 yr old thorow a fastball?

To learn how ro picth.

Rocket,
I do believe that you have some very valid points. I believe also that the curve ball should always be taught but not necessarily as the third pitch, try it as the fourth, fifth or sixth pitch! True, we really don't know what breaks down the pitcher's arm eventually. 9 is just too young to worry about the cb.
In my son's case, they just felt that developing good mechanics, working on one's fastball and learning the change up over time was more important. And he too was very limited in throwing those breaking balls. Of course he had a change up, he threw it more in bull pen (after 15 on) and learned more to rely on his other pitches. He never felt that he was unsuccessful, in fact he loved having a good time with his different fastballs and then fooling them with the off speed rather than the curve. I believe that conditioning helps, but my son was very lazy with that concept, so I can never say he was the best conditioned on the team, that is why he remained healthy. He did work constantly on rubber bands and long toss, long toss, long toss.
The other kids who relied on the curves more often because they had a hard time with their fastballs just never made it due to sore arms, major injuries, just as some have stated here. Was it a coincidence, maybe, maybe not.
My son's pitching coach in college needed to work with him on his curveball more than any other pitch he had, due to the fact that I think, he just never relied on it that much.
Also during fall practice, the curve was very seldom used. One, they wanted the ball in play, and two, just no need to throw them in practice.
I don't know if you have a son or not, we are just trying to give advice that worked for us.
There are lots of parents here whose sons are playing beyone HS, would be interesting to know how the curve came into play when their boys were younger.

I'm totally against curve balls at this age, I would say until the age of roughly 15-16 they shouldn't throw them. How much of a benefit is it to throw a curve ball at 11 years old? The majority of any breaking action is just plain old gravity. The problems of long term health you can cause is huge. A player at that age has so much growing to do with tendons, ligaments, and growth plates to be putting undo stress on them. I coach a 18 u national team and still there are to many players that can't locate their fastball and throw a good change up. I think younger players should be more concerned with learning to hit spots and changes their fast ball speeds. They have plenty of time to throw a curve ball, but the damage they can start at such a early age sometimes can't be irreversible. Learn to hit spots and change speeds rather then adding a curve or trick pitch to the repertoire.

FWIW, I started throwing a curveball when I was 9 years old. I pitched in High School, made all-conference my Senior year, and had the opportunity to pitch in College. Go figure!

One thing I'm definitely sure about is that kids today don't throw the ball as much as they should. Certainly not as much as I did when I was younger.

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CADad,

One thing I noticed about the California teams in the LV tournament this past weekend was that they could really hit the curveball. Most of those teams still struggled with good fastballs though.

Jason

This has been a great post. I know that I have learned/reconsidered a few things. I still believe that a curveball gets a bad name for some reason. I have actually seen a player brake his arm throwing a fastball, but no one ever mentions these injuries. You only hear about the injuries that are blamed on the curveball with absolutely no evidence that it was the result of a curveball. I am not making this up, it happened to me. I mentioned it earlier in this post. My injury would have occurred without throwing a curveball(they initally blamed it on a curveball). I doubt I would have this much love for the game had I not thrown a curveball. Why? I wouldn't have had the same success without it. I wouldn't have the memories of throwing a perfect game or 3 no hitters. I never pitched a game in high school because of my injury. My point is, your son may hurt his arm without throwing a curveball before he even gets to high school. Why not let him have as much fun as possible, instead of planning his future in the Major Leagues? You never know when he is going to get injured, or just decides to quit. Most kids at the 12 and under level will never play baseball in high school. It isn't because they get hurt, it is because they don't like it(aren't good enough). Most people's life on the baseball field is short, why not make the most of it!


This is just my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

I have enjoyed discussing this topic. I hope everyone learned something from it. I am now offically out of things to say regarding this issue.

Thanks for your time.

Take care. I'll talk to you on another subject.

CADad-
Really? I saw more curveballs from them than I see at the HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, and most H.S. kids these days REALLY love the deuce!

Once again I say this:--visit a good orthopedic sports doc and see what he tells you--all we can offer here is opinion-- docs can give your the real info

Coach Knight,
I saw mostly fastballs from the pitchers throwing high 60s and above. The better teams in the LLWS had at least one of those. We've faced the #2 pitcher from Conejo Valley a couple times recently, mid 60s at most, and he threw mostly fastballs, saving the curve for key situations. The most recent time we faced them I told my son to be aggressive and hit the fastball early in the count. It worked for him.

You get a fair amount of curves in HS but you generally get more in college based on my limited observations.

Flipp,
I've been surprised that the kids tend to have problems against the kids throwing 70 and above even at 54'. I've noticed that a couple of our kids are just feasting on the pitching now that we've moved to 54' but many of them are not hitting any better than they were at 48'.

rocket - I enjoyed the discussion too.

I do agree to a certain extent to "enjoy the moment" you are in and you are correct that most youth players will not play HS ball. I do think most people come to this site though trying to figure out how to increase their sons' chances of playing HS ball and beyond. Most of my comments in this thread were based on that assumption.

Have a good weekend.

phillyfan - Sorry but I just don't buy that a 9-year old "learns how to pitch" by throwing a curve ball. Actually I strongly believe that it is the opposite that occurs when 9's throw such a pitch. JMO.

So far, it is interesting to see no real responses to my question.

Here is the question again:

What exactly is the motivation for (and desired result of) having a 9 year old throw a curve ball?

Only one person has responded - (and the response was another question - not an answer).

Its...IGNORANCE...sorry, you asked. This topic is not even a reasonable question.

Phillyfan...throwing a curve ball is not learning to pitch...not even close.

Savannah...as a youth coach you have a responsibility to the kids...I hope you practice it. Do whatever you want with your own kid if you can't accept the experience that has posted in the negative.

Good Luck!

Show me a pitcher who has learned how to locate his fastball, throw 2 and 4 seamers, and change speeds, and I'll show you a pitcher who has learned how to pitch.

Anybody can throw a bad curveball to mediocre little league aged players (remember that most of the hitters will never play HS baseball, either) and make them look silly. That doesn't mean that they are learning how to pitch.

From article in "Collegiate Baseball":

"Dr. Joseph B. Chandler, chairman of the Major League Baseball Medical Advisory Committee, interviewed 30 major and 71 minor league pitchers in 2002 to determine their pitching history. High pitch counts and reports of arm injuries were uncommon and most first threw a curveball at 14 and a slider at 18 years. Year round baseball was uncommon and most played other sports during the year. Professional pitchers reached their elite status without following the excess practices of today." (July, 2004)

grateful,

I said I was done with this topic, but you posting that article raises some questions(for me at least).

Thanks, that is very interesting.

My oldest started throwing a curve ball at 9 or 10 and had great success with it. He won many games and was always an Allstar selection. He continued through Minors, Majors and into high school. He had such an outstanding curveball that he made the Varsity team as an 8th grader. His success contined all through high school and everyone thought from early on that he would play college ball...

The problem was that his curveball was 74-75MPH and his fastball was 75-79 and his change was 72-74...not very good. And while his curveball was excellent and he piled up the wins with it, he just never developed anything else. So dispite his success, he was not recruited and he had to learn after high school how to throw a fastball.

Ultimately, he took some time off after high school and developed a fastball and ended up walking on and getting a scholarship at a JC, but Holy Cow, what a learning experience!!

My 11 year old knows how to throw a curve ball and I let him throw it some, but 90% of his pitches are FB and the majority of the rest are change-ups. The curveball stays on the shelf for the most part.

My 2 cents.

R.

Callaway, thank you for the honest post.

I hear and read a lot about arms getting hurt from throwing the curve ball.
Does anybody have any articles, or know of any that exist on getting the arm hurt throwing the fastball?

First of all I do not see how learning how to throw a curveball teaches one how to pitch

Another aspect which never seems to pop up is the different mound to plate distances the kids pitch at--every time you move the rubber back the kid has to klearn how to throw the curve all over again. Why not wait til you get to the 60 ft 6 inch distance ?

Thirdly as Callaway noted his son never learned how to pitch--having three pitches all at the same approximate speed does not a pitcher make

At 9 years of age the boy should be learning proper mechanics; location and throwing his fastball with various grips to give the ball different movement.

The problem most kids that are throwing curveballs run into is that they fall in love with it and neglect the fastball. Developing your fastball should ALWAYS be priority #1. I don't believe that should ever change regardless of your age.

I'm not about to tell someone whether they should or shouldn't have their 9 year old throw a curveball. The only thing I will say is to make sure fastball development doesn't take a backseat.

Jason