D1 probable redshirt...should he stay or should he go?

Move on.  This happens all the time.  As many others have said, "Go where you are loved."  It doesn't appear like your son is experiencing love, so I would try to find another opportunity.

I don't know how strongly this player feels connected to the school and/or otherwise desires to go there.  So, we are unable to factor that important aspect in.  Aside from that, I have to agree with Ryno... the new coach saw him and told him no fit going forward.  There is almost always multiple factors, multiple pieces moving with this type of thing.  It's not just the player.  It is other players they have in mind for the spot, maybe other players who they gave $ to.  So the player has a particularly difficult hill to climb in which the chips are not stacked evenly on the table.  It is likely that even if he does well, it does not end well.  He would have to do extremely well for a consistent period of time to change his lot with this particular school.  It can be done but it may be something that is beyond the player's control even if he did his part.

Feel badly for the student athlete here.  That is tough on a young person who thought he had a good home and opporutnity.  I would favor Option 1.  Getting the second coach to reconsider will be difficult - he felt strongly enough to come out and let the SA know, and it is human nature to rationalize and stick with his initial decision versus later changing course.  Not impossible but seems improbable.  Also, as difficult as it will be switching gears now and finding another opportunity in the next few months, it may be as or more difficult transferring from the current mid-major with no playing experience.  I'll be interested to hear others' opinions.

      I don't know how strongly this player feels connected to the school and/or otherwise desires to go there.  So, we are unable to factor that important aspect in. 

                                 The player is excited for the opportunity but I wouldn't say he feels any real connection to the school since he has yet to attend.  It is out of state...has a rich history etc.  Not going to this school will not break the players heart as much as not playing D1 baseball.  

Jhcccc posted:

      I don't know how strongly this player feels connected to the school and/or otherwise desires to go there.  So, we are unable to factor that important aspect in. 

                                 The player is excited for the opportunity but I wouldn't say he feels any real connection to the school since he has yet to attend.  It is out of state...has a rich history etc.  Not going to this school will not break the players heart as much as not playing D1 baseball.  

Good.  BTW, son is coaching in WV at the NAIA level and it might make sense to connect the two if your son gets past the non-D1 part.  PM me if that might be helpful.  Heading to a game and it will probably be tomorrow before response.

To the OP:  this is where it can be extremely helpful to have a few very trusted advisors that can steer a kid in the correct direction.  Often this can be a Travel Ball coach or a hitting/pitching instructor or a trusted friend who is a scout or college coach.  Someone who can tell you guys the truth, even if the truth is tough to hear.

Either the kid is not a good fit at this particular D1, or just not D1 material at all.  I like the JUCO route, because it can open up the recruiting again to D1's after a year or two and it can give time for further development.

It is important for this kid to understand that this sort of thing happens fairly frequently.

Another Option

Hopefully your son has developed good relationships with other schools during the process. If he did, I would start by putting a list together of potential other options and contacts from the process.  Draft is coming so some schools may have potential holes to fill...Maybe they would still be interested....Tricky though....They cant talk to you while under the NLI...So first step....You may want to get out of NLI with the school ASAP. Go to your travel ball and high school coach. They can help to message out for you! Go luck!

3and2Fastball posted:

To the OP:  this is where it can be extremely helpful to have a few very trusted advisors that can steer a kid in the correct direction.  Often this can be a Travel Ball coach or a hitting/pitching instructor or a trusted friend who is a scout or college coach.  Someone who can tell you guys the truth, even if the truth is tough to hear.

Either the kid is not a good fit at this particular D1, or just not D1 material at all.  I like the JUCO route, because it can open up the recruiting again to D1's after a year or two and it can give time for further development.

It is important for this kid to understand that this sort of thing happens fairly frequently.

      Thanks...I will be consulting with our inner circle over the next few days.  I have learned so much on these boards that I wanted to get your input as well.  He may not be D1 material...only time will tell.  We were told by many evaluators that he was a mid major D1 prospect.  Talented kid with a good bit of upside.  It has helped me to read on this board how often this happens.  I was disappointed to say the least when I received the call from the head coach.  Your comments are very helpful.  Thanks!

JHCCC, PM me regardless... I have other info that will also be helpful.  Not suitable for public forum.

This is a way for the coach to say get lost. 

so assuming the kid moves on and gets a release from NLI ... AND another D1 wanted him, could he go the D1 route immediately since he didnt enroll at first school?

How long ago did he commit?   Did he have other D1 offers or at least serious interest?  If yes, then I'd assume he can find a spot at a D1....considering he's now probably at least a year older (and likely stronger) than when he was initially recruited.  Whether it's right away or after a year at a smaller school is up to him.   I'm not an expert, but I think he can be released from his NLI due to the coaching change, but I'm not sure if it qualifies that it was an assistant, not the HC.   I can tell you that at my son's mid-major, being a redshirted as a freshman would make it really, really hard even if it he was redshirted as a recruit they really wanted, which you have said isn't the case.  "Proving a coach wrong" is basically impossible.  He's already said there isn't a spot for your son the following year, so he's recruting for that year based on that expectation leaving no spot for your son even if the coach did somehow change his mind.   Tough situation, but I think I'd just move on and hope for the best elsewhere

Buckeye 2015 posted:

How long ago did he commit?   Did he have other D1 offers or at least serious interest?  If yes, then I'd assume he can find a spot at a D1....considering he's now probably at least a year older (and likely stronger) than when he was initially recruited.  Whether it's right away or after a year at a smaller school is up to him.   I'm not an expert, but I think he can be released from his NLI due to the coaching change, but I'm not sure if it qualifies that it was an assistant, not the HC.   I can tell you that at my son's mid-major, being a redshirted as a freshman would make it really, really hard even if it he was redshirted as a recruit they really wanted, which you have said isn't the case.  "Proving a coach wrong" is basically impossible.  He's already said there isn't a spot for your son the following year, so he's recruting for that year based on that expectation leaving no spot for your son even if the coach did somehow change his mind.   Tough situation, but I think I'd just move on and hope for the best elsewhere

He committed at the end of last summer...signed his NLI during the early signing period.  Just finished his senior year of high school baseball and is playing in a collegiate summer league in Florida starting in June.  He had other D1 interest but not offers.  The head coach did not change...the assistant coach that recruited him changed.  The head coach has indicated that he will release him from his NLI.   

FriarFred posted:

so assuming the kid moves on and gets a release from NLI ... AND another D1 wanted him, could he go the D1 route immediately since he didnt enroll at first school?

I think the answer is "yes" since he never actually participated under the intitial NLI...however, the chances of landing at another D1 this late in the game is probably slim.  If we decide to look elsewhere (which seems to be most peoples opinions on this thread) we will start called the other D1 schools that showed interest to see if they have a need that my son can fill.  If not we will work D3 and JUCO...

3and2Fastball posted:

To the OP:  this is where it can be extremely helpful to have a few very trusted advisors that can steer a kid in the correct direction.  Often this can be a Travel Ball coach or a hitting/pitching instructor or a trusted friend who is a scout or college coach.  Someone who can tell you guys the truth, even if the truth is tough to hear.

Either the kid is not a good fit at this particular D1, or just not D1 material at all.  I like the JUCO route, because it can open up the recruiting again to D1's after a year or two and it can give time for further development.

It is important for this kid to understand that this sort of thing happens fairly frequently.

Good point and I will share with him that this is not personal even though it most likely will feel that way.  Over the years we have always sought outside opinion in order to help keep expectation real and not inflated by hopes and and dreams.  He has been evaluated by people who know baseball from Virginia to Florida and I have followed their guidance regarding where he fits.  

What position does he play?  If he's an infielder and can field a  ground ball and get a batter out, my son would probably try to pull some strings to get him into his school   Nothing a pitcher hates more than getting an easy ground ball that turns into an E, costing him pitches or worse

Did he do a Perfect Game Showcase?  You certainly don't need to reveal his his grade but if he received a 9 or a 10 he is most likely D1 material.  An 8 or 8.5 doesn't mean he's not D1, just that he might not be a slam dunk D1 candidate.

Some of the best advice repeated here is "go where you are loved" and I would add "go where you can get on the field and contribute".   If a kid loves playing Baseball it is not as much fun sitting on the bench for 4 years.

Others will correct me if I'm wrong but from my years working in travel organizations that did get players onto high level college programs, I'm pretty sure it is much more rare for players to go from D3 to D1 than it is to go from JUCO to D1.   If your son is determined to play D1 and his advisors are telling him that he is still D1 material, then betting on himself at a JUCO makes sense.

I would 100% take up CABBAGEDAD on his offer to help.   He definitely knows a lot.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

What position does he play?  If he's an infielder and can field a  ground ball and get a batter out, my son would probably try to pull some strings to get him into his school   Nothing a pitcher hates more than getting an easy ground ball that turns into an E, costing him pitches or worse

He played SS most of the time...has moved to 3B over the past couple of years and this year he played in both positions depending on who we had on the mound.  He can play any infield position.  Has a really good glove and was recruited based on his bat.  Are you talking about BGSU??  I grew up in Toledo...  

3and2Fastball posted:

Did he do a Perfect Game Showcase?  You certainly don't need to reveal his his grade but if he received a 9 or a 10 he is most likely D1 material.  An 8 or 8.5 doesn't mean he's not D1, just that he might not be a slam dunk D1 candidate.

Some of the best advice repeated here is "go where you are loved" and I would add "go where you can get on the field and contribute".   If a kid loves playing Baseball it is not as much fun sitting on the bench for 4 years.

Others will correct me if I'm wrong but from my years working in travel organizations that did get players onto high level college programs, I'm pretty sure it is much more rare for players to go from D3 to D1 than it is to go from JUCO to D1.   If your son is determined to play D1 and his advisors are telling him that he is still D1 material, then betting on himself at a JUCO makes sense.

I would 100% take up CABBAGEDAD on his offer to help.   He definitely knows a lot.

He played for Evoshield Canes Florida which is now just Canes Florida...Perfect Game, Wilson Premier, and Prospectwire events over the years.  Has a PG profile but not an actual grade.  Was selected as Perfect Game 2018 All Region HM for Florida.  2 star rating from Prospectwire which indicates a low to mid level D1 potential.  He was selected for the South Florida USA Baseball NTIS team during his junior year summer.  Played up in Cary representing South Florida.  

He has a pretty good baseball resume...

Sounds like a ballplayer to me!  The Canes folks should be able to help get him situated.  That is (in part) what you paid them for.... D1 openings do come up in June after the draft when a player or three expected on campus signs with an MLB team.  A late opening like that, combined with a good JUCO in place as a backup plan, would likely be my approach.

Hopefully your son is feeling more than a little angry about all this.  A talented player with a chip on his shoulder can be a good thing.  If he can carry that forward and dominate in the weight room and the practice field this can help as further motivation.   

3and2Fastball posted:

Sounds like a ballplayer to me!  The Canes folks should be able to help get him situated.  That is (in part) what you paid them for.... D1 openings do come up in June after the draft when a player or three expected on campus signs with an MLB team.  A late opening like that, combined with a good JUCO in place as a backup plan, would likely be my approach.

Hopefully your son is feeling more than a little angry about all this.  A talented player with a chip on his shoulder can be a good thing.  If he can carry that forward and dominate in the weight room and the practice field this can help as further motivation.   

Our annual baseball banquet is tonight...I chose to not tell him yet.  Will talk to him after the banquet.  I didn't want to ruin his senior baseball banquet.  I thought the same thing regarding a chip on his shoulder.  I know he will be angry but in the end if channelled properly, that may work out in his favor.  

The given is he's not wanted at the school he signed. Convincing the coach he belongs is a long shot with consequences (transferring issues) if he fails to do so. 

I would sit down with the travel coaches for advice. They may be able to make some calls on his behalf. He may have to red shirt for a year due to lack of roster space. Or maybe he plays JuCo for a year with a D1 verbal for the following year. 

Good luck.

Just wanted to say, that stinks.  Sorry your kid has to go through that.

Cabbagedad, 

You have a pm.

FriarFred posted:

so assuming the kid moves on and gets a release from NLI ... AND another D1 wanted him, could he go the D1 route immediately since he didnt enroll at first school?

Yes

Sorry to hear about your sons situation. I think you are getting excellent suggestions from the HSBBWEB board, and I hope your son gets some options to chose from.  This may be a blessing in disguise given the head coach's recent attitude and actions.  I've seen events like this put some serious motivation in a young man.  Good luck!

fenwaysouth posted:

Sorry to hear about your sons situation. I think you are getting excellent suggestions from the HSBBWEB board, and I hope your son gets some options to chose from.  This may be a blessing in disguise given the head coach's recent attitude and actions.  I've seen events like this put some serious motivation in a young man.  Good luck!

Thank you.  This board is invaluable.  I have been reading it for a couple of years and have learned an incredible amount regarding recruitment etc.  A great asset to us baseball parents.  

Jhcccc

did you son attend a Area Code tryout? Do you have a pro team near?

who is your pro scout?

Bob

Consultant posted:

Jhcccc

did you son attend a Area Code tryout? Do you have a pro team near?

who is your pro scout?

Bob

He has not attended an Area Code tryout.  The closest pro team would be either Miami or Tampa.  There are a number of associate scouts in the area but I am not sure when you ask who is your pro scout...

Ask the Associate his opinion. Do you watch games in the Minor Leagues?

Can you meet the Minor League players for their evaluation and opinion?

Bob

Consultant posted:

Ask the Associate his opinion. Do you watch games in the Minor Leagues?

Can you meet the Minor League players for their evaluation and opinion?

Consultant posted:

Ask the Associate his opinion. Do you watch games in the Minor Leagues?

Can you meet the Minor League players for their evaluation and opinion?

Bob

I will do that...one of them was his coach so we are fortunate to have had his counsel in the past.  

This:

"Or maybe he plays JuCo for a year with a D1 verbal for the following year."

I have seen this right much.  The D1 wants him, but just not right now due to roster space.   

keewart posted:

This:

"Or maybe he plays JuCo for a year with a D1 verbal for the following year."

I have seen this right much.  The D1 wants him, but just not right now due to roster space.   

 

Right...the mid major he is signed with has indicated possible interest in that regard.  Not so much a verbal but a "we will keep him on our board" approach.  Not sure that is how it will unfold but that has been indicated if the player progresses properly.  Of course any JUCO player that becomes desirable falls in that category.