D3 Help

Well, your experience at the hoosier camp must not have be a total bust. Congrats on the letters. My advice would be to answer every single letter and complete every single questionaire that is sent. You just "never know" where a coach may be down the road.
With this in mind, certainly don't lose sight of a D-I dream.

Great advice by JT!

quote:

Originally posted by gametime24:
I have received numerous letters this pat week from the d2 and d3 schools that were in attendance at a camp I was at, and I honestly feel I am D1 material but should I respond to these coaches letters just so I have something to fall back on?

gametime, adding on to JT's. You definitely want to create interest by having as many school options as possible. With asst. coaches changing jobs at the end of a season, one of the first things I would do if I was them was to hold to all recruiting info I could. My son had 2 different coaches that were recruiting him change schools and was then recruited by the new schools.

Also like most players you want to play at the highest level possible, but there are some very strong programs at all levels.

Gametime, there are a few ways I could interpret that information. One way is that the DII and DIII coaches feel you are a DI potential talent who might slip through the DI recruiting cracks and they do not want to miss you. Another way, if there were DI's at the camp, is that the DI's, based on that performance, have a different view of your skills at this point than they do.
It is great to believe in your talent. You only have to find one DI coach to believe in it also. But if that does not happen, and they do make mistakes and miss players, then you need to capture the best education and baseball experience by fully investigating the DII and DIII avenue. Personally, I would not look at the DII's and DIII's as something to fall back on at this point. Unless and until you have serious interest from a DI, look at these as the best options and if things change with DI interest, that will be a huge bonus.

Just being a D1 school doesn't mean its a better baseball program than a D2 or D3 school.
There are D1s and then there are D1s! Check out the schools that have contacted you..you may be surprised.
Conratulations

Got a letter from a D1 school in the MAC Conference today. I am trying to reply to every single letter I get because if the coaches are taking time out of their day for me the least I can do is fill out a questionnare and send my test results and grades.

gametime

What year of HS are you in--I assume you are junior from your posts but not sure

I like your attitude --if you want to seek direction or just chat about your situation please feel free to phone me anytime

Tom Rizzi
Consulting Dirtector
College Select Baseball
800-782-3672

Money talks. If a D2 or D1 offers you money, no matter how little, you can be assured that they are sincerely intersted in you. Since D3 has no money, they will tell you what they think you want to hear to get you, especially if you are D2 or D1 material. All D3's over recruit and when you show up in the fall they will have 70 players competeing for 30 roster spots.

sqeezeplay

Wrong again !!!!

Perhaps you heard what you wanted to hear in making your decision

Squeezeplay is painting D3's with a broad brush and in my experience is dead wrong. D3's do not have athletic money. But they do have money. My son received some D3 offers far better (financially) than the D2 athletic money offered.

As far as over recruiting is concerned I know of some D3's who do, but then again if you look at the roster of many high profile D1's you will see the same thing........ Thats where doing your homework comes into play.......trust me on that....

To piaa_ump,

If your son received money or any other form of compensation directly from the athletic department of a D3 program then the program is in violation of the NCAA rules.
Any financial offers received must have come from the academic department.
Only D2 or D1 can offer athletic scholarship money.

To TRhit,
When it comes to D3 coaches you can only relate to what they tell you since there is no money for athletic scholarships. In reality, there is no "recruiting" in D3, only an invitaion to "try out' in the 4 week fall period allowed under NCAA rules.
On the other hand, if the athletic department of a D2 or D1 program is willing to part with some athletic scholarship money on behalf of a player, then that player can be assured of a roster spot.
This is actual "recruiting". By having the player sign a letter of committment as a condition of receiving the money, the program in turn commits a roster spot to the player.

Squeezeplay,
I believe I stated that the school my son signed with was D3 and did not have athletic money, however the academic scholarship monies offered was more than some of the D2 athletic monies that he was offered....

No the $$$ werent from the athletic department, but quite honestly, we didnt care.....$$$ is money regardless of who is booking the expense..........

As to your assertion that there is no recruiting in D3, I again disagree....there may well be an open tryout for the sport, but in my son's team's experience, no one other than those recruited came out......

A agree with PIAA_ump. My son is heading to a D-III that has guaranteed a spot on the roster. This school does NOT over-recruit, so we took the coach at his word (and I know enough to know his word is good). Other D-III's in fact, did recruit him with the opportunity to tryout. So, it's all a matter of researching the school and the coach.

Sqeezeplay....think you are off base as far as D3's go....many times academic money is far more than athletic.....and I don't care if it's a D1, D2, or D3....don't ever think you will be assured a place on the roster....you will still have to work hard over the summer, do well in Fall ball....and stay healthy.

might as well throw my two cents in...D3 does recruit, and many of us do not over recruit...that is one broad brush that is being displayed. We are a mid-level D3, on the way up, we target to bring in 10-12 players each year. our roster settles out between 27-32 each year. Remember, all d3 offers of money are academic, which come with a 4 year gaurantee (provided GPA is at a certain level) where any money from an Athletic Department is a 1 year renewable scholarship and can be stripped for numerous reasons, including injury and don't think D1's and II's don't "over-recuit" either...love the "recruited walk-on" story. With 11.7 full scholarships, and most schools in this vacinity having far less do your homework. As JT said, if you do your homework on a program and coach you will get a better feel regardless of what level your playing at.

I've been thru the D3 "recruiting" process. My son turned down top 25 rated D2 athletic money because he wanted attend to a school close to home. This D3 school is a perennial contender rated in the top 25 nationally every year and every bit as good as any of the D2 and D1 programs in the mid Atlantic region. He is on the team but we feel that the word "recruiting" in D3 is an inappropiate term.
To JT: Let me say that if the D3 school your son is headed to does not over recruit by inviting and having 70 or more players attend the fall try out and has guaranteed him a roster spot then it can't be a contending program and must have trouble attracting players. No offense intended but you need to qualify your statement as to why this particular D3 is different from the top 25 D3 schools.
VJC Baseball's post is a perfect example of this. It is a very small private college that is $8,000/year more then the top rated D3 schools in the mid Atlantic area and will guarantee a roster spot because they have trouble attracting competative talent.
To PIAA_UMP: There is nothing to "sign" to play D3 except an injury waiver that protects the school from liability if he gets hurt. As far as money goes D2 and D1 will "put their money where their mouth is" with athletic scholarship because they can. If your son is receiving academnic money from a D3 he most likely could have gotten the same deal from a D2 or D1 in addition to athletic money if they really wanted him for baseball.

squeeze, unfortunately, I feel you are continuing a banter that is overly broad and quite inaccurate on both the DIII side and on the baseball scholarship side. Your last post even includes a fair amount of, in my view, unnecessary contentiousness flavored with what I interpret to be some "elitism" type thinking. Hope I am wrong.
Our son played for a "top ranked" DIII as you like to call it. Rated as high as 3rd in the country his senior year. He was recruited by a coach who is honest and forthright with his players and recruits. The coach provided explicit ideas and committments to our son and included how he would try and improve every aspect of his baseball/academic experience. The committments even extended to summer leagues/placement and exposure. Are there vagaries in DIII because a NLI cannot be used? Absolutely. Sometimes coaches end up with 20 players in the Fall, 5-8 of whom he never talked with before and sometimes they end up with 10-12, even though 18-20 committed and actually deposited. The DIII my son attended never ended up with 70, or anywhere close to that number, in the Fall but did have a significant increase in interest because of the schools academics and success in baseball. Your experience at one school does not, in my view, translate into or support any type of general statements or standards for DIII as you have narrated them. Your suggestion that you have some "special" knowledge of the recruiting standards for "top DIII's" nationally just does not have any substance. You may want to check. Over the last 3 years, the DIII CWS was won by two West Coast schools and one from Wisconsin. Top DIII baseball is national in scope, whether you want to believe it or not.
On the DI/DII side, the value of a "scholarship" can vary from program to program. Scholarships are renewable annually. If you research DI/DII, which it does not seem you have done, you will find "scholarship" players in the Fall who are neither on the roster in the Spring, they aren't even at that school. That is because the coach made it clear to the player that he would not be playing or taking a roster spot and that the scholarship may not be renewed, either.
Personally, I think you are wrong and continue to show how wrong you are the more you post with broad generalities. The suggestion you have reliable information to apply to all "top DIII's" does a disservice. The optimism you provide to someone on scholarship at a DI/DII is equally wrong, IMO.

Squeezeplay......

You may call D3 recruiting what you wish......

All I will say is that across the final schools that "recruited" my son .....2 D3's 1 D2 and 2 NAIA the only difference was he actually worked out at the NAIA schools........and the monies offered by scholarship (athletic or academic) were different....


They all sent him letters
They all called the house
They all came to see him play
They all had him come to visit
They all offered an overnight visit with the team
They all sent postcards from Florida trip
They all offered him scholarships....

I'll call that recruiting.........you are free to call it what you wish....


I will leave it at that and agree to disagree.....

PIAA

Very well stated

Infielddad,

No need to get personal

Remember, I'm talking the top 25 nationally ranked D3 schools. Lower D3's take what they can get.

These are the facts and I would encourage any prospects to contact past or present players of any schools they are considering to verify them. The college baseball experience is just a primer for the real world of sports should anyone have asperations beyond college.

1) All Top 25 D3 programs invite as many players as the can to the 4 week fall try outs because of the caliber of players they are seeking, mostly regional all stars within a 4 hour driving radius who also have the grades to get in (look at the rosters). These players can play D2 and D1 in a lot of cases but may elect to consider a top D3 because it is close to home or for other reasons beside baseball, ie. money, academics, etc. However, many prospects on the D3's wish list verbally commit to a D3 only as a "backup" plan in case the D2,D1 falls thru. D3's know that if everyone they invited showed up there would be 100 or more players at the tryouts

2) It is in the best interest of the D3 program to have as many of the best prospects as possible show up for the fall tryout to get the best roster. Who wouldn't want 35 pitchers, freshmen as well as upperclassmen, competing for 12 roster spots on a team that will get you a lot of wins? The coach will trim the team as he sees fit. If you have a good fall tryout you make the cut. If not, regardless of your class status, your not there. This is the distinction between D3 and D2-D1 where athletic scholarship money is committed. When there is a LNI signed by the player and the school due to scholarship money awarded, the prospect can be assured a roster spot unless he violates terms of the agreement. They're not going to waste their limited money by recruiting and then cutting a player.

"To JT: Let me say that if the D3 school your son is headed to does not over recruit by inviting and having 70 or more players attend the fall try out and has guaranteed him a roster spot then it can't be a contending program and must have trouble attracting players."

Gosh squeeze, if I were the parent of that player, I might interpret your comment as getting awfully personal, amongst other things!

"Remember, I'm talking the top 25 nationally ranked D3 schools. Lower D3's take what they can get."

"All Top 25 D3 programs invite as many players as the can to the 4 week fall try outs because of the caliber of players they are seeking, mostly regional all stars within a 4 hour driving radius who also have the grades to get in (look at the rosters)."

So I assume you can tell everyone how Linfield and George Fox College in Oregon, Chapman, Pitzer and LaVerne in CA, and TLU, Trinity and others in TX recruit? You, or your son's, experience does not equate to "all." I have no problem if you want to suggest something that might be hidden on the DIII side that you have experienced. When you apply it to "all," you lose all credibililty with me.
BTW, since my post referenced a team ranked as high as 3rd, I assumed that would be included in the "top 25."

May I add that each D-3 school may do things a bit differently than another--I know that Northeast D-3 programs cannot do what some of the southern and western schools do in terms of money-- state schools cannot do what the private schools do.

squeeze-- I agree with infielddad that one or two experiences do not give the feel of what the others can do

I would also have to believe that the Top 25 programs are doing things a bit differently with their "recruits" because they are winning and others are not

Squeeze,

Let me add only what I personally know of 2 "top notch" D-3's, one currently with a top 15 ranking and the other not ranked but went to World Series twice in past 5 years, which would fit my definition of "top notch": neither has 70 players come in to try out, both identify and recruit their relatively precise needs, and those recruited are guaranteed a roster spot their freshman year, but obviously have to earn their playing time; both have open tryouts at which typically anywhere from 20-35 kids show up, but the track record is that at most 1-2 players make the team from those tryouts.

There are cattle call recruiting schools, and if a player goes in with his eyes open and knows that, fine; it's when players are a bit deceived as to their prospects that I have issues. If the coaches are straight up with however they do it, by invitation or by cattle call, or anywherein between, that's all one can ask of them.

If we are going to talk about my school, lets make sure we've got the facts straight...we have about 2500 students...not very small private by anymeans...we play schools that are are 800 students...we are not too large either. Our cost is actually more like 25K per year. Hence the reason we do not over-recruit. The schools whose cost are closer to 12-13 can attract many more players. As for our caliber, there is not one team we have played that #1 will intimidate us or #2 can blow us out of the stadium! I could probably tell you where your son goes, and the bottom line is if the homework is not done you might be in an unfortunate situation. However, not all D3 schools and coaches work the same! My goal is to bring in 10-15 kids each season. With our current team, we've had 1 guy move on to play proball, and 3 on our current roster that have had private MLB workouts and have generated interest. Where that will lead to no one knows, but we do not have problems bringing in talent! Most kids think they are recruited because the coach sent them a letter! Just because your experience has not been good, does not mean you are the know all about D3.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
" So I assume you can tell everyone how Linfield and George Fox College in Oregon, Chapman, Pitzer and LaVerne in CA, and TLU, Trinity and others in TX recruit? "

I also copied this comment from another thread Infield Dad.

"Jim Page at Millsaps is such a coach.
I am told Coach Cleanthes at Rhodes is another.
Coach Scannell at Trinity is a 3rd.
Coach Thomas at Hendrix and Coach Iwasaki at Austin College (Now at Norhern Colorado) are also reported those types of people/coaches.
Will they please everyone? Surely not."

Infield Dad,

I asssume that these D3 schools do not over recruit?

To the rest of HSBBW,

Since these thread has been 5 years old, Any other thoughts on D3 Colleges that don't over recruit and has coaches who has attained a good amount of integrity that you would trust their words.

Would it be considered significant interest if DIII/NAIA colleges has called early in July about extending invitations for visits ( I have read somewhere that they don't start calling until Sept/Oct when DI/DII are done with their initial recruiting interest)

Our main geographical areas of interest are Southwest, Northwest,Pacific, Great Plains,Midwest and maybe Northeast.

Thanks.

The relative timing of one school versus another can be different. However, with many D3 schools the recruiting process heats up in the fall of one's senior year. This is what we have learned over the past 5+ years.

The summer is spent "developing a recruiting list." Recruiting directors really start the process of making contact and developing a dialogue in the fall. There is continued follow-up at key events to follow kids that they hope to recruit and to broaden the number of prospects.

The real recruiting begins after the November D1 signing period. What happens is that many kids that hope to be recuited realize they may not be recruited to a D1 program. As such they start focusing on the reality of finding a school that makes sense where they can play baseball.

From November into the spring (and even into the summer) the focus is finding kids that want to attend the school, fit the academic profile and can make and contribute to the team.

The schools that you have listed and many others are focused on recruits meeting their academic profile, having the means to attend the school and from a coaches prospective the ability to contribute to their team.

I hope this helps.

Fall tryouts, what are those? haha

So how do you then gauge D3 schools making initial contact in July talking about visits in August?

New to this game so any input will be greatly appreciated.

dazed.

Any school contacting you in July is seriously interested in you, regardless of level.

Ryanrod23,
the point of my response to sqeezeplay was that it is very hard to make over generalizations at the D3 level, on a National basis, on who does/does not over recruit.
I am confident schools like Pomona Pitzer and Trinity U do not and cannot over recruit. I don't know about Linfield and Chapman but have never heard of it being an issue.
As a general rule, schools with demanding admissions and academics, which are also nationally ranked in baseball usually don't over recruit. They cannot. They cannot get enough players through admissions, with adequate financial aid.
Normally, programs of that type only get a portion of the players admitted who are recruited, even though they might prefer to have more admitted.
On the other hand, competition is what college baseball is all about. The better the program, the better the depth and competition for playing time/innings. Programs which do not over recruit will look to bring in highly talented players in the next recruiting class. Coaches want the best players they can recruit and have admitted. They want each season to be one where every player is constantly challenged and pushed to improve, whether they are a freshman or senior.
Teams do not get better when the players do not.
As for players getting called and invited in July by D3's...congratulations.
That was not our experience other than one early call where the TU coaches expressed interest, said they expected DI's to recruit our son, but to know their interest wouldn't change if the DI didn't materialize.
In general, top D3's are looking at players with some DI skills. They normally identify these players during the Summer/Fall after the junior year.
For many D3's with limited recruiting budgets, it just does not make economic or resource allocation sense to start in July. They wait until they are reasonably sure which potential recruits attracted DI interest and have that option and which don't. That is October/November. These coaches also know, for some of their top recruits, they will be battling all the way to the start of school the next August. The reason is many of these types of players get late DI interest in the Summer after their senior year. Sometimes the player opts for the late DI and sometimes not.
However, not all coaches/staffs do this in the same way. Anyone getting contacted by D3's at this point should appreciate it is likely genuine interest. It might reflect programs which are willing to recruit head to head against DI and DII's, it might reflect a coach who views the player as a likely D3 level player, or it might suggest they recruit from a very big pool of players.
The fact players are getting recruiting calls/visit invitations in July from D3's is further evidence that there is no one right/wrong way. If the calls are coming from D3's which are nationally ranked and successful year in and year out, the staff knows what works best in their situation.

BOF, thank you for the response and you also infielddad.

It is actually my son who got the calls. He also has another D3 coach that has sent him written letters and one after July 1st (no call though).

Seems the D1's are always the emails to come to their summer camp. Once he explains he can't afford to go (which is true for our family at this time) interest seems to drop.

One of the great growing experiences for my son in the whole recruiting process was “getting the wheat from the chaff”. He would get all kinds of these emails “come to my camp” etc etc. If he had real interest in a school I would have him call the coaches and ask them point blank where he was on their recruiting list, was he number 1 or number 10 or number 100, or just on their camp mailing list? Your son will grow a lot by doing this and it will give him a sense of how serious a program is. Just as a FYI if a school is really serious they will allow for him to come into a multi day camp for one day at a pro-rated cost so they can see him and he will not have to stick around for the whole camp.

Good Luck!

Son told one D1 program that he was only able to attend 1 day of a 2-day camp because he had a baseball obligation with team on the first day. D1 coach told him that it was against NCAA regulations to prorate or discount a camp for any player for any reason. Now, that could have been just a line from the coach. In any event, son didn't attend for the one day (and didn't get further calls from this coach either - which told us that he was a camp $$ interest only).

Thanks for all your responses guys (ILVBB,BOF,IF DAD)! It gives us a better understanding of D3/NAIA interest. We have come to realize that as long as it is the right fit, it won't matter if our son go to DI,DII,DIII, NAIA, JUCO. Just have to be open to all possibilities but definitely need to narrow down before the end of the year.

I appreciate it.

gamefan, i have recently seen camps that offer a discount if attending only one day. The difference may be that these schools are offering the option to EVERYONE, not favoring or giving the discount to only one player.

gamefan- I'm glad to hear you and your son didn't pursue that school. I wouldn't want to play for a coach who doesn't respect a commitment to a team either.

I can relay my son's D3 process, which may help some people. As background, my son, a 2011 HS grad, decided during his junior year that he wanted to target attending a smaller, high academic school. Therefore, he decided to tailor his baseball activities during the summer prior to his senior year to maximize exposure to head coaches from these types of institutions. If by chance D1 interest came about as a by-product of this strategy, fine (some did, but not a fit, he was not interested in pursuing), but that was not the main objective. The centerpiece was to attend the Headfirst Camp in August in Long Island New York. Prior to the camp, we as a family researched the schools attending the camp, and my son created a "wish list" of about 15-20 schools, scattered throughout the country. He emailed the coaches of these schools prior to the camp, introduced himself, told the coach he would be at Headfirst, etc. Every coach quickly replied via a personal (not form letter) email.

He did well at Headfirst, I believe every coach he reached out to, made the effort to watch him play, and he met face-to-face on his own with most of the guys as well, including others who sought him out.

After the camp my son had more phone conversations with coaches, further researched the schools, and 5 stood out for him. They ranged from a NESCAC school, another in the upper mid-west, and California and Pacific Northwest. Each coach was pretty aggressive, calling him throughout the month of August, urging visits, etc. For better or worse, my son really narrowed his focus down, and ended up visiting three of the schools, stay in the dorm with a player, etc.

Each coach was selling hard for my son to apply Early Decision, which the coaches stated gave them the most leverage to sponsor his application through the admissions process. (2 of the 3 schools were definitely "stretch schools", relative to admissions.) Son applied Early Decision to his first choice (a school where the mid 50% SAT range hits 2200 - not Ivy standards, but close) The coach was very active in the admissions process. Son was accepted Early Decision. Hard to say if he would have been accepted as a non-recruited athlete, regular decision applicant, as his academic stats were solid, but not "elite". Son is ecstatic.

It is extremely evident, given several conversations with the coach, and how the roster has proven out over the last two years, that there is no over-recruiting at this school.

Furthermore, reiterating Infielddad's post, given the combination of factors, like a tuition + room/board that runs just North of $50K a year, the selectivity, and that academic/FAFSA money is awarded by Spring application deadlines, there is probably a near zero chance that impact athletes will show up unannounced/unbeknown to the HC come Fall, it just wouldn't make sense.

Anyways, long story, but it's ours, maybe it will help some folks here.

Like2rake, Almost word for word of what my son went thru except for an impact player showing up unannounced (if my som falls under that heading).My son`s school choice was very late and the first time he had any contact with the coach was when he arrived on campus at the start of the year.There is no fall ball in the NESCAC either so it was a long wait until spring.