I got a question from a brother umpire.
Situation: fair hit over third base and down the line towards dead ball territory. The fielder goes into dead ball territory, with both feet, and picks up the ball lying in foul ground. The umpires that had the game ruled live ball. I have Dead Ball Two Bases Does anyone have a NFHS rule on this with a fielder, who has both feet in dead ball territory handling a live ball?
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Rule 5.1.k.1
Rule 5 Dead Ball - Suspension of Play SECTION 1 DEAD BALL ART. 1 . . . Ball becomes dead immediately when:
k. a balk or an illegal pitch is committed; or
l. a batted, thrown or pitched ball touches a designated media area or anyone or anything that is entirely or partially in the designated media area.
The award table shows 2 base award when ball is out of play except when thrown by the pitcher from the rubber. Since it was a batted ball... two bases are awarded from time of pitch. A thrown ball out of play is awarded from time of throw.
FYI ... here is a link to a 2017 version of the NFHS rules. It is a 2017 version, so the rule # may hace changed slightly... but the rule is the same.
A dead ball is a dead ball once it's called dead...whether or not the OF picked it up isn't important. Problem is the umps didn't call id dead for going into dead ball territory....so again, whether he picked it up or not isn't important. In your case, the ball is live....OF needs to play it that way. If there's an argument after and the ruling is changed so be it
Agree Buckeye.. I read the OP differently... I read it as the ball remained in playable territory while the fielder was in dead ball area. I see an open field with a white line parallel to the foul line... ball stays on field side of boundary while player circles into dead ball territory to pick up and throw. This is a had to be there to see what happened, but play needs to continue until a call is made.
NewUmpire posted:Agree Buckeye.. I read the OP differently... I read it as the ball remained in playable territory while the fielder was in dead ball area. I see an open field with a white line parallel to the foul line... ball stays on field side of boundary while player circles into dead ball territory to pick up and throw. This is a had to be there to see what happened, but play needs to continue until a call is made.
This is how I visualized it... so live ball, right?
NEWUMPIRE that is the situation "ball stays on field side of boundary while player circles into dead ball territory to pick up and throw" So since both his feet are in DBT I have dead ball two bases BUT he was not in the Designated Media area, so I am looking for a rule to cover DBT.
NewUmpire posted:Agree Buckeye.. I read the OP differently... I read it as the ball remained in playable territory while the fielder was in dead ball area. I see an open field with a white line parallel to the foul line... ball stays on field side of boundary while player circles into dead ball territory to pick up and throw. This is a had to be there to see what happened, but play needs to continue until a call is made.
Now that you say that and I read it again, maybe that's what happened 
I see designated media area and DBT as the same. It is an area where if entered, bounced through, the ball is dead. If the player or any part of the player is on the ground in DBT ... Dead ball - 2 bases. Think about the inverse ... player in playable territory, ball in DBT. Player firmly grounded in playable territory but reaches across the boundary and catches a HR / Fould ball...... no one would question that the catch is an out. the opposite is then true.. player in DBT ball in play ... dead ball.
To anticipate the next question ... a ball in fair but player in foul ... the ball dictates the call because both are still in playable area.
First define the field ... then the playing field / dead ball territory.
The the penalty for stepping into dead ball territory with both feet.
SECTION 2 THE FIELD ART. 1 . . . A diamond (or infield) shall be a 90-foot square. When measuring the distance to first base and third base, measure from the apex of home plate to the back edge of the base. The outfield is the area between two foul lines formed by extending two sides of the diamond as in Diagram 2. The infield and outfield, including the boundary marks from home plate to first and third and their extended foul lines, are fair ground. All other area is foul ground.
SECTION 42 PLAYING FIELD The playing field includes both fair and foul territory. Any other areas beyond the playing field are defined as being outside the playing field (dead ball area). Any wall, fence, barricade, rope, wire, marked or imaginary line is -considered a part of the playing field. Any areas beyond those boundaries are outside the playing field.
SECTION 1 DEAD BALL ART. 1 . . . Ball becomes dead immediately when:
i. a fielder, after catching a fair or foul ball (fly or line drive), leaves the field of play by stepping with both feet or by falling into a bench, dugout, stand, bleacher, or over any boundary or barrier such as a fence, rope, chalk line, or a pregame determined imaginary boundary line; or
NewUmpire posted:SECTION 1 DEAD BALL ART. 1 . . . Ball becomes dead immediately when:
i. a fielder, after catching a fair or foul ball (fly or line drive), leaves the field of play by stepping with both feet or by falling into a bench, dugout, stand, bleacher, or over any boundary or barrier such as a fence, rope, chalk line, or a pregame determined imaginary boundary line; or
I don't think this applies....the OP said the fielder went into dead ball territory then picked up a ball laying on the ground in foul territory not past whatever marked dead ball territory. I think that in this case, it's a live ball,as it was fair when it crossed the bag making a fair ball that ended up in foul territory. I'm not sure that the fielder being in dead ball territory then picking it up makes it a dead ball. It would seem that by doing that he could have gained an advantage....say maybe taking away a triple or an inside the park homer. I'm thinking it's a fair ball and play continues even after he picked it up since he didn't have the ball in his possession BEFORE he went into dead ball territory
Buckeye 2015 posted:NewUmpire posted:SECTION 1 DEAD BALL ART. 1 . . . Ball becomes dead immediately when:
i. a fielder, after catching a fair or foul ball (fly or line drive), leaves the field of play by stepping with both feet or by falling into a bench, dugout, stand, bleacher, or over any boundary or barrier such as a fence, rope, chalk line, or a pregame determined imaginary boundary line; or
I don't think this applies....the OP said the fielder went into dead ball territory then picked up a ball laying on the ground in foul territory not past whatever marked dead ball territory. I think that in this case, it's a live ball,as it was fair when it crossed the bag making a fair ball that ended up in foul territory. I'm not sure that the fielder being in dead ball territory then picking it up makes it a dead ball. It would seem that by doing that he could have gained an advantage....say maybe taking away a triple or an inside the park homer. I'm thinking it's a fair ball and play continues even after he picked it up since he didn't have the ball in his possession BEFORE he went into dead ball territory
So is it two bases from where the runner is at when the ball is picked up? If he is on his way to second does he get second and third. Or is it from when the ball is hit?
BishopLeftiesDad posted:So is it two bases from where the runner is at when the ball is picked up? If he is on his way to second does he get second and third. Or is it from when the ball is hit?
It depends. 
If the ball has come to rest (or nearly so), then it's two bases from when the ball is picked up.
If the ball had enough momentum on its own that it would have gone out of play (even if the direction meant that the ball would not go out of play), then it's two bases TOP.
Thanks. That helps a lot. This discussion makes more sense to me.
"If the player orany part of the player is on the ground in DBT ... Dead ball - 2 bases." This is not true. If any part of the player is touching live ball territory, the ball remains live. If the ball was in/over live ball territory and fielder picked it up, maybe the umpires ruled part of the fielder was still in live ball area and that's why they kept the ball live.
