Developing players, developing none...playing to win?? Nope.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

Our V team brought along a JV OF (Freshman) who had been playing well to join the team for games when the JV had no conflict game. He got in to pinch run the first couple games but did not play. The V coach asked him if he liked being along with the V team & what did he think. Apparently he told the coach that he was not all that interested to be there if he was not going to play. He has not been seen since in the V dugout.

That was the kid's bad!  Not the same as a varsity coach having a kid sit the bench for a whole season to pinch run in lieu of him playing on JV,  

Who suggested it was the same?

Steve A. posted:

What he & others fail to recognize is that it is an audition. He got to take BP on the field prior to the game. He got to take IF / OF & make throws pre-game. He had an opportunity to display the goods & win a shot at a spot. If, as a player, you are in this spot, you need to treat BP & IF as the game. Then, be positive & wait for a chance. You are there because someone liked you for some reason.

blah, blah, blah...coaches rationalization.  In the end all a coach did (for like 95% of the kids they did this to) is take away 1 of 4 years of getting to play baseball for their school from a kid. 

Probably one of the last 4 years of their life.  Congratulations!  Someone like you!  Your reward is to watch others play baseball!! 

SSBuckeye posted:

The primary goal of the freshman and JV teams is to develop future varsity players.  Building a winning culture at the younger ages should also be a top objective, but not at the expense of the primary goal.  That can make for a couple of frustrating years, but it is what it is.

Exactly! This should be communicated to players and parents prior to season. As a coach, I tell parents all the time that the most difficult year/s for a player in just about any HS sport is soph and sometimes junior year. This is largely due to the goal of many sub-varsity teams/coaches and that is to develop players. If sub-varsity coaches are good and have talent, they can often accomplish development while also winning games. However, I don't know a varsity coach who would be willing to sacrifice development at lower levels just to win games to make players/parents happy.

If we, as adults, just take the time to relate some of these experiences to the real world, we find that similar things happen in our career fields. My son is probably so tired of hearing me relate his experiences in HS sports to working in the business world.

Steve A. posted:

Our V team brought along a JV OF (Freshman) who had been playing well to join the team for games when the JV had no conflict game. He got in to pinch run the first couple games but did not play. The V coach asked him if he liked being along with the V team & what did he think. Apparently he told the coach that he was not all that interested to be there if he was not going to play. He has not been seen since in the V dugout.

I kind of agree with the kid.  My son said he wanted to play on JV if he wasn’t pitching, which is all he is allowed to do on Varsity. What’s the point of rotting all year if you could be playing and improving on a lower team? My son definitely feels like his game has gotten worse this year.  I don’t care at all about playing to win on JV, but playing is nice.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

What he & others fail to recognize is that it is an audition. He got to take BP on the field prior to the game. He got to take IF / OF & make throws pre-game. He had an opportunity to display the goods & win a shot at a spot. If, as a player, you are in this spot, you need to treat BP & IF as the game. Then, be positive & wait for a chance. You are there because someone liked you for some reason.

blah, blah, blah...coaches rationalization.  In the end all a coach did (for like 95% of the kids they did this to) is take away 1 of 4 years of getting to play baseball for their school from a kid. 

Probably one of the last 4 years of their life.  Congratulations!  Someone like you!  Your reward is to watch others play baseball!! 

Dude. Get a grip on yourself.  We are talking about 2, yes 2, total games. The V actually played a Spring Break tournament. The kid in question missed ZERO JV action. The coach probably wanted to take a look & the kid punted. Nobody stole a year of his baseball life but he may have just earned an extra year of JV misery as you describe.

Steve A. posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

What he & others fail to recognize is that it is an audition. He got to take BP on the field prior to the game. He got to take IF / OF & make throws pre-game. He had an opportunity to display the goods & win a shot at a spot. If, as a player, you are in this spot, you need to treat BP & IF as the game. Then, be positive & wait for a chance. You are there because someone liked you for some reason.

blah, blah, blah...coaches rationalization.  In the end all a coach did (for like 95% of the kids they did this to) is take away 1 of 4 years of getting to play baseball for their school from a kid. 

Probably one of the last 4 years of their life.  Congratulations!  Someone like you!  Your reward is to watch others play baseball!! 

Dude. Get a grip on yourself.  We are talking about 2, yes 2, total games. The V actually played a Spring Break tournament. The kid in question missed ZERO JV action. The coach probably wanted to take a look & the kid punted. Nobody stole a year of his baseball life but he may have just earned an extra year of JV misery as you describe.

Wasn't talking about this kid.  In general, happens all the time.  Kids lose a whole year.  

baseballhs posted:

Steve A. posted:

Our V team brought along a JV OF (Freshman) who had been playing well to join the team for games when the JV had no conflict game. He got in to pinch run the first couple games but did not play. The V coach asked him if he liked being along with the V team & what did he think. Apparently he told the coach that he was not all that interested to be there if he was not going to play. He has not been seen since in the V dugout.

I kind of agree with the kid.  My son said he wanted to play on JV if he wasn’t pitching, which is all he is allowed to do on Varsity. What’s the point of rotting all year if you could be playing and improving on a lower team? My son definitely feels like his game has gotten worse this year.  I don’t care at all about playing to win on JV, but playing is nice.

I don't disagree at all. Obviously, you want the kid to want to play & the kid definitely wants to be in there. My example is a situation, and I'll try to make this crystal clear again, where the kid in question is NOT MISSING ANY JV ACTION, and instead, sitting on the bench for V.

If the choice is flat= Play for JV or sit for V, I say play JV 100%. No doubt agree. 

Steve A. posted:

baseballhs posted:

Steve A. posted:

Our V team brought along a JV OF (Freshman) who had been playing well to join the team for games when the JV had no conflict game. He got in to pinch run the first couple games but did not play. The V coach asked him if he liked being along with the V team & what did he think. Apparently he told the coach that he was not all that interested to be there if he was not going to play. He has not been seen since in the V dugout.

I kind of agree with the kid.  My son said he wanted to play on JV if he wasn’t pitching, which is all he is allowed to do on Varsity. What’s the point of rotting all year if you could be playing and improving on a lower team? My son definitely feels like his game has gotten worse this year.  I don’t care at all about playing to win on JV, but playing is nice.

I don't disagree at all. Obviously, you want the kid to want to play & the kid definitely wants to be in there. My example is a situation, and I'll try to make this crystal clear again, where the kid in question is NOT MISSING ANY JV ACTION, and instead, sitting on the bench for V.

If the choice is flat= Play for JV or sit for V, I say play JV 100%. No doubt agree. 

If you aren’t missing JV, 100% take the opportunity.

Stev

I don't disagree at all. Obviously, you want the kid to want to play & the kid definitely wants to be in there. My example is a situation, and I'll try to make this crystal clear again, where the kid in question is NOT MISSING ANY JV ACTION, and instead, sitting on the bench for V.

If the choice is flat= Play for JV or sit for V, I say play JV 100%. No doubt agree. 

I personally think your scenario is an amazing opportunity for the kid and would love to see more of it.  I would love to see our program do it for hot hitters for a game or two even if they have to miss a JV game to maybe PH for a game for varsity.  Just a single AB even and then go back down.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Stev

I don't disagree at all. Obviously, you want the kid to want to play & the kid definitely wants to be in there. My example is a situation, and I'll try to make this crystal clear again, where the kid in question is NOT MISSING ANY JV ACTION, and instead, sitting on the bench for V.

If the choice is flat= Play for JV or sit for V, I say play JV 100%. No doubt agree. 

I personally think your scenario is an amazing opportunity for the kid and would love to see more of it.  I would love to see our program do it for hot hitters for a game or two even if they have to miss a JV game to maybe PH for a game for varsity.  Just a single AB even and then go back down.  

Right! So here is how it would have played out, almost without a doubt, if he had been all in for this "opportunity." As soon as we played a week opponent or it was a blowout, he definitely is in there. Then, based upon what happens maybe someone gets hurt or is just really struggling & he gets a shot. Then you take advantage, do some damage & you are in there.

As opposed to kicking rocks at the end of the dugout with a rotten attitude. Then you can have all the JV you never wanted & more. 

Half of development is mental.  How does a player handle different kinds of adversity?  Situations when he isn't called in to pitch when he wants to go in or he gets called in to pitch when he doesn't think he's ready.  Getting taken out when you're pitching or hitting well just to have a kid inferior to you take your place.  Taking 120 batting practice swings the day before a game, with your coach fixing every little part of your hitting mechanics and then he doesn't even put you in the game (sucker!).  

What is the goal? The players ultimately become the best players they can become. Your team is the best team it can be. Your program assists with the development of each player.

This is just my opinion and the way I have always approached it. The JV is used to indoctrinate the player into your culture. It is used to teach and develop. It’s where we start the fire. It’s where we give them a game plan and road map to where they need to go. 

We have never won a JV championship. Usually around .500 ball. I make sure everyone plays and plays multiple positions. We win the conference almost every year in varsity. 

There are 8 months in the off season to work to get better. We put a big emphasis on this time and what they do. I have had complaints over the years that the JV doesn’t win. I have heard complaints that we don’t play our best guys enough. All I can say is I could careless who the best players are coming in. I’m only concerned with making sure their all the best they could be before they leave.

hsbaseball101 posted:

Half of development is mental.  How does a player handle different kinds of adversity?  Situations when he isn't called in to pitch when he wants to go in or he gets called in to pitch when he doesn't think he's ready.  Getting taken out when you're pitching or hitting well just to have a kid inferior to you take your place.  Taking 120 batting practice swings the day before a game, with your coach fixing every little part of your hitting mechanics and then he doesn't even put you in the game (sucker!).  

Can the player or parent control any of the above actions? No. All you can really do, as a player, is train, work & prepare to the full extent of your ability. Then, when given an opportunity, any opportunity, you go out there & kick some a**. If you continue to kick said a** on a consistent basis, your coaching complaints somehow incredibly vanish because you are in there ALL THE TIME!

Golfman25 posted:

joes87 posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

3and2Fastball posted:

Meet with the Town Board or the AD about the JV team?   Pretty funny.  This has gotta be another satire thread, right?  

At any given time 2/3rds of the baseball players are playing on JV or freshman...not varsity.  Are you saying a school or community should only care about 1/3rd of the players?

We have a pretty successful athletic program at our HS.  From Football to Badminton to Baseball.  Any yep the focus is always on the Varsity teams. No one cares about the Frosh or JV teams, unless you are playing on them or a parent of a player on one of those teams.  Its just the way it is.

Actually that's not true.  The varsity coach should care because that is the feed stock to his/her program. 

Don't you think the varsity coach cares in the same way that a college coach cares about a HS player?

It's a chance to see the kid play--see his attitude, whether he's self motivated, whether he cops an attitude while losing, and how he responds to coaching and instruction or the lack thereof?

It's partly can the kid play, and partly, can he play well enough to be worth putting up with? Tons of those kids won't survive JV, guessing the coach only cares about those who will.

I can just imagine being the coach of the JV, and having a board member come and say that some parents are complaining that you aren't playing to win. In the unlikely event that I didn't quit on the spot, and I changed things so that I only played the best players at certain spots, I guarantee you that a board member would come down sometime later and say that some parents are complaining that their kids aren't getting enough playing time.

There are always parents who know better than the coach. Funny how one of their "ideas" never involves sticking their kid on the bench.

Steve A. posted:

baseballhs posted:

Steve A. posted:

Our V team brought along a JV OF (Freshman) who had been playing well to join the team for games when the JV had no conflict game. He got in to pinch run the first couple games but did not play. The V coach asked him if he liked being along with the V team & what did he think. Apparently he told the coach that he was not all that interested to be there if he was not going to play. He has not been seen since in the V dugout.

I kind of agree with the kid.  My son said he wanted to play on JV if he wasn’t pitching, which is all he is allowed to do on Varsity. What’s the point of rotting all year if you could be playing and improving on a lower team? My son definitely feels like his game has gotten worse this year.  I don’t care at all about playing to win on JV, but playing is nice.

I don't disagree at all. Obviously, you want the kid to want to play & the kid definitely wants to be in there. My example is a situation, and I'll try to make this crystal clear again, where the kid in question is NOT MISSING ANY JV ACTION, and instead, sitting on the bench for V.

If the choice is flat= Play for JV or sit for V, I say play JV 100%. No doubt agree. 

My son played JV freshman year. He was a varsity starter soph year. Given he played fifty high level 16u travel games the summer following JV I would have been fine with him practicing with the varsity every day and not playing JV.

Isn't it weird how much easier it is to run a program from the bleachers?

to answer your question from me.  It is my job as a varsity coach to do what is best for the varsity first at the present, then prepare for the future.  If I bring a kid up and he misses a few jv games, but does not get to play other than run a few times and it makes my varsity better then I have done my job.  I do not agree with putting a player on varsity who is never going to play rather than jv but I may do it for a game or two or more if it helps my team, some times just in case.  I was actually referring to a parent whose kid was moved up and did not get to play but was there just in case.  The parent said I lied to the kid by getting his expectations up.  Guess what?  I didn't bring him up again.  So be careful what you ask for as a parent.  Some times, parents keep kids from succeeding.  I had a college RC and HC that told me that they did not offer a teammate of my son's because we don't want to hear that dad for four years.  He acted like summer ball was high school ball and it was all about winning and losing.  (There's a thread that needs to be started before showcase ball starts this year)

RJM posted:

Steve A. posted:

baseballhs posted:

Steve A. posted:

Our V team brought along a JV OF (Freshman) who had been playing well to join the team for games when the JV had no conflict game. He got in to pinch run the first couple games but did not play. The V coach asked him if he liked being along with the V team & what did he think. Apparently he told the coach that he was not all that interested to be there if he was not going to play. He has not been seen since in the V dugout.

I kind of agree with the kid.  My son said he wanted to play on JV if he wasn’t pitching, which is all he is allowed to do on Varsity. What’s the point of rotting all year if you could be playing and improving on a lower team? My son definitely feels like his game has gotten worse this year.  I don’t care at all about playing to win on JV, but playing is nice.

I don't disagree at all. Obviously, you want the kid to want to play & the kid definitely wants to be in there. My example is a situation, and I'll try to make this crystal clear again, where the kid in question is NOT MISSING ANY JV ACTION, and instead, sitting on the bench for V.

If the choice is flat= Play for JV or sit for V, I say play JV 100%. No doubt agree. 

My son played JV freshman year. He was a varsity starter soph year. Given he played fifty high level 16u travel games the summer following JV I would have been fine with him practicing with the varsity every day and not playing JV.

Every scenario is unique & different. Mine is a Freshman. Made V as a Freshman & got 2 Mound starts early but did not play field. He got IF work & BP & quality practice with V. CF got hurt. They moved 2B to OF & he has started MIF ever since when he is not on mound. Was he a better player than some of the Srs. Jrs. starting? Yes. Did he like sitting for those games waiting for an opportunity? No. Did he bitch about it? No. Did I tell him to be patient & continue to work hard & he will eventually get a shot? Yes. Did he play hard & take advantage of the opportunity? Yes. Will he see the bench again in a meaningful game? Probably not. Do I have any control over it if he does sit? No.

Did I consider complaining to anyone when he sat for 5 games? No. Have I said more than hello to the coach? No. 

I've said it before and will say it again:  if you don't like it, find other options.  An internally motivated athlete can get a ton of work done in 2 hours time if they have a dedicated Dad to hit them Grounders and throw BP.  A hundred ground balls, 6 rounds of BP, sprint work, fly balls and more can be done in 2 hours instead of going to team practice.  Leaves plenty of time for weightlifting & homework.  Multiply that by 5 days a week for several months, that is development prior to summer ball.  Even better if there is a Spring Travel league 

You are choosing to have your son play High School Baseball.  It is a choice.

Most young athletes don't want to work like that though.  They don't love the game enough to do that.  They just want to play games.

Bottom line is you aren't going to change a program.  Venting about it online won't change it either.

There are always exceptions, but for the most part this is what you find in JV baseball : kids with not enough talent to be on varsity, coaches that don't know enough about baseball to teach anything, and parents that cant keep their mouths shut.  It is a recipe for disaster!

I think the OP (and the rest of us!) would be wise to read each of Steve A's posts 3 or 4 times.

The most I ever say to a coach is "thank you" or if there is an injury to discuss involving my son.  Other than that, his team his decisions.  And I wouldn't go behind a coach's back to try to get him fired or to try to get him to run the program differently.  Not my circus not my monkeys.

We live in an ever evolving world when it comes to Youth Baseball.  Everything from sending your kid to IMG in Florida or to the Carlos Beltran Baseball Academy in Puerto Rico to never spending any money other than high school & summer legion fees and in between.

Tons of choices & options out there.

So let me throw one more log on the fire here. Our Summer / Fall travel coach has been around. He is the kind of guy who has a contact list in his phone about a mile long of Div 1 thru Juco coaches.

He told me recently that basically, the first thing these Coaches ask him is this when discussing a prospect for their Program: "We know the kid can play, "Tell me about the parents. Are they a pain in the ass or not?" If there is hesitation or a "well, there may be an issue there," that is the end of the discussion.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted: If the coaches actions displayed any indications that he was trying to "develop" players I would be fine with that. In fact if the coaches actions indicated any direction at all that would be promising.  

I don't agree this has to be 100% at the expense of also attempting to win some games.  There is no logic to each game in the 5th inning to start to give 7-10 at bats to players who have no chance to play on varsity.  Players who put in no outside work.  Who have no chance of catching up to 80 MPH much less 85 since they have ridiculous swings and don't work at it.  This is inhibiting development of future varsity players, not enhancing it.

The coach had an opportunity to put in a pitcher (any actual pitcher) in a close game against a good opponent and challenged him to not let in runs, pitch a few meaningful innings in a close game. He blew that developmental chance and inserted someone who does not even want to pitch and frustrated all the players.  

I doubt that anyone would call me an apologist for baseball coaches, but in this particular case I see an ignorant parent who does little more than whine and complain, likely causing or adding to a heck of a lot of unrest. Unless you go to every team meeting or practice, are privy to all the communications between the VHC and the JVHC, have discussed your observations and concerns in depth with the HC, know for sure which players do outside work and how much, all you’re doing is running your mouth and very likely causing problems for the coach.

After watching amateur baseball for many years, I’ve found out that the players have a far higher tolerance than parents for things they don’t understand or think should be done differently. With the pitch count requirement hanging over their heads, coaches often make moves people don’t understand.

I’m sorry if what I said comes off as being too critical. But over the years I’ve heard similar stories over and over again from people who believe they know better than the coaches, and it really gets irritating. More often than not there are things going on the people in the stands and the players know nothing about.

OP is putting way too much stock in the HS experience. It is what it is, unless you can change it , meaning the caliber of play before they ever get to HS. Most if not everyone here is highly vested in  travel ball and you can't compare them. Both(HS/Travel) have totally different interest with one having no skin in the game beyond student /athlete...........the other depends on your cash and advancement to college and would cease to exist if one or both don't occur.

My son's HS program isn't good but it also has not held him back. You see, he has a choice to be a leader and compete no matter the circumstances. That attitude and perseverance got him recruited by multiple D1's.  Most do not get to choose who and where they play for at the HS level, some do exercise their ability to change schools for baseball.......in my findings, a player will find a way through adversity and be a heck of a lot stronger for it. Baseball is a tough cruel world, you might as well do your best prepping them for the trials and tribulations to come. Too many folks wanna chew their players food for them, let them do it themselves.

My sons HS coaches are pretty average baseball guys and very good people with character. As Steve A suggests, my sons HC was indeed contacted and asked "What am I getting?". Thank goodness I had the sense to not be "That GUY!", at the same time I know it's not about me and never was. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

What he & others fail to recognize is that it is an audition. He got to take BP on the field prior to the game. He got to take IF / OF & make throws pre-game. He had an opportunity to display the goods & win a shot at a spot. If, as a player, you are in this spot, you need to treat BP & IF as the game. Then, be positive & wait for a chance. You are there because someone liked you for some reason.

blah, blah, blah...coaches rationalization.  In the end all a coach did (for like 95% of the kids they did this to) is take away 1 of 4 years of getting to play baseball for their school from a kid. 

Probably one of the last 4 years of their life.  Congratulations!  Someone like you!  Your reward is to watch others play baseball!! 

This is a HORRIBLE take.  

RJM posted:

How is the herd at the water cooler today? 

Can't get a thing done. They keep crowding me in my cube.  One co-worker has boundless energy, but can't focus.  Another worked up over some issue with his high energy co-worker, he won't say exactly, just whines a lot.  Perhaps he is upset I brought in a younger worker and is concerned for his position.  "It's for planned growth!  We talked about it in the staff meeting!"  Another is just a few months shy of reaching retirement.  Seems glad to just be around.

That looks like some kind of performance art. Kinda brilliant. How long did it take you to set up?

If your 3 months of JV baseball ruins your chances of being a player you never had a shot any way. Of course if your looking for excuses that’s as good as the next.

smokeminside posted:

That looks like some kind of performance art. Kinda brilliant. How long did it take you to set up?

Would you say it’s a real Norman Ruffwell?

My contribution to the newly trending art form: Ruffwells On Parade. 

Coach_May posted:

If your 3 months of JV baseball ruins your chances of being a player you never had a shot any way. Of course if your looking for excuses that’s as good as the next.

ARGHHHH!!!  I did not say anything about ruining any chances or future or blah blah blah.  My son's post high school potential future (or not) is all done outside of high school.  Outside work, travel / showcase team, recruiting site, etc.

So many, including you are sooo defensive.  It is possible for a program to not be good and for people to want to make it better for all.  This whole....JV is just not good so accept it is such a cop out.  

rynoattack posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Steve A. posted:

What he & others fail to recognize is that it is an audition. He got to take BP on the field prior to the game. He got to take IF / OF & make throws pre-game. He had an opportunity to display the goods & win a shot at a spot. If, as a player, you are in this spot, you need to treat BP & IF as the game. Then, be positive & wait for a chance. You are there because someone liked you for some reason.

blah, blah, blah...coaches rationalization.  In the end all a coach did (for like 95% of the kids they did this to) is take away 1 of 4 years of getting to play baseball for their school from a kid. 

Probably one of the last 4 years of their life.  Congratulations!  Someone like you!  Your reward is to watch others play baseball!! 

This is a HORRIBLE take.  

ahhh...reality...

Backpick25 posted:

My son's HS program isn't good but it also has not held him back. You see, he has a choice to be a leader and compete no matter the circumstances. That attitude and perseverance got him recruited by multiple D1's.  Most do not get to choose who and where they play for at the HS level, some do exercise their ability to change schools for baseball.......in my findings, a player will find a way through adversity and be a heck of a lot stronger for it. Baseball is a tough cruel world, you might as well do your best prepping them for the trials and tribulations to come. Too many folks wanna chew their players food for them, let them do it themselves.

My sons HS coaches are pretty average baseball guys and very good people with character. As Steve A suggests, my sons HC was indeed contacted and asked "What am I getting?". Thank goodness I had the sense to not be "That GUY!", at the same time I know it's not about me and never was. 

 

 "Did you ever know you are my hero..."

 -  Bette Midler

 

I doubt that anyone would call me an apologist for baseball coaches, but in this particular case I see an ignorant parent who does little more than whine and complain, likely causing or adding to a heck of a lot of unrest. Unless you go to every team meeting or practice, are privy to all the communications between the VHC and the JVHC, have discussed your observations and concerns in depth with the HC, know for sure which players do outside work and how much, all you’re doing is running your mouth and very likely causing problems for the coach.

I’m sorry if what I said comes off as being too critical. But over the years I’ve heard similar stories over and over again from people who believe they know better than the coaches, and it really gets irritating. More often than not there are things going on the people in the stands and the players know nothing about.

these posts never cease to make me laugh.  People draw and make up ridiculous conclusions based on nothing more than imagination.   Then apply generalities to a specific situation they have literally no knowledge of or exposure to.  

Statements like "all you’re doing is running your mouth and very likely causing problems for the coach."  

The coach and I have never spoken more than hello.  Well, I guess that is not true.  The game before last I was drinking coffee and it was cold and he came up to me asked me if it was ice or hot coffee.  We then discussed it was gonna warm in the next few days.  It is possible he took my comment about "warming" as a dig that his team needs to "heat up" their performance.  hmmm...maybe I have gone too far.  

No need to apologize, you are probably right.  There is no way a football coach trying to coach baseball for the first time can be over his head.  

PitchingFan posted:

to answer your question from me.  It is my job as a varsity coach to do what is best for the varsity first at the present, then prepare for the future.  If I bring a kid up and he misses a few jv games, but does not get to play other than run a few times and it makes my varsity better then I have done my job.  I do not agree with putting a player on varsity who is never going to play rather than jv but I may do it for a game or two or more if it helps my team, some times just in case.  I was actually referring to a parent whose kid was moved up and did not get to play but was there just in case.  The parent said I lied to the kid by getting his expectations up.  Guess what?  I didn't bring him up again.  So be careful what you ask for as a parent.  Some times, parents keep kids from succeeding.  I had a college RC and HC that told me that they did not offer a teammate of my son's because we don't want to hear that dad for four years.  He acted like summer ball was high school ball and it was all about winning and losing.  (There's a thread that needs to be started before showcase ball starts this year)

 

I have no issue with this and I think moving kids up here or there is good for both the program and the kid.  Regardless of playing time.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Coach_May posted:

If your 3 months of JV baseball ruins your chances of being a player you never had a shot any way. Of course if your looking for excuses that’s as good as the next.

ARGHHHH!!!  I did not say anything about ruining any chances or future or blah blah blah.  My son's post high school potential future (or not) is all done outside of high school.  Outside work, travel / showcase team, recruiting site, etc.

So many, including you are sooo defensive.  It is possible for a program to not be good and for people to want to make it better for all.  This whole....JV is just not good so accept it is such a cop out.  

Your son has a choice.  Ride out the season or walk away.  But then he's probably giving up his chance to play varsity.  

It's JV.   Most JV teams are not expected to win.  Strive to win, yes, but development is the main thrust.  Some coaches are better at it than others.  Seems to me the coach is trying to develop the players.   Maybe he isn't making the best decisions in your eyes, but he is the coach and it is his decision, not the parents.

In our region our JV seemed to win a lot including playing for the district championship - while the JV doesn't have "playoffs", the top two teams would play for the "JV District Championship".  Then when those kids got to varsity, the winning ways didn't seem to happen.  A lot of parents questioned, "What happened?  They are playing the same kids."   Well,  not so fast.  Turns out the other teams would pull all their best players up to varsity and leave the lesser talented players on JV for further development.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

No need to apologize, you are probably right.  There is no way a football coach father trying to coach navigate high school baseball for the first time can be over his head.  

 

 

Fixed that for you.

As I said in your other thread, if you have it all figured out why don't you apply to be a coach? I'm sure someone with your knowledge of the proper course of development of JV baseball talent would be a boon to the program.

I'll say this with complete sincerity - you are coming here not for advice, but for confirmation.  When the answers you seek aren't forthcoming your attitude becomes defensive and you circle the wagons.

You are not unique. Your experience is not unique. Your "specific situation" IS a generality when it has been seen dozens of times. Many of us have been in the same position. Most of us have kids that successfully navigated high school baseball despite the coaching challenges. Some of us have players that dealt with coaching situations far worse than what you are facing.

Rob T,   

This reminds me of baseballson's experience ...Freshman year, V Coach calls him to help scrape the mound after a JV practice...Says to son, "Time to get a pair of White Spikes"...(meaning he was moving up to V).  A couple weeks later, a JV "mom" had a word for Coach, after game..."We're losing since you moved P up. We NEED him back on JV!"...Coach said..."We're WINNING on Varsity. He's part of that....Those WINS are why they pay me to coach Varsity!" 

She was highly insulted...but got the message...

 

Fixed that for you.

As I said in your other thread, if you have it all figured out why don't you apply to be a coach? I'm sure someone with your knowledge of the proper course of development of JV baseball talent would be a boon to the program.

I'll say this with complete sincerity - you are coming here not for advice, but for confirmation.  When the answers you seek aren't forthcoming your attitude becomes defensive and you circle the wagons.

You are not unique. Your experience is not unique. Your "specific situation" IS a generality when it has been seen dozens of times. Many of us have been in the same position. Most of us have kids that successfully navigated high school baseball despite the coaching challenges. Some of us have players that dealt with coaching situations far worse than what you are facing.

 

Well, if they could pay me like an SEC coaches salary I would consider it...otherwise not worth the money...

I was seeking people who had experienced before and first-hand accounts of what they did or did not do and why.  Some provide that and it is valuable.  Others provide critique.  I take both in and will use to decide any action to take or not.  The fact that people get offended if someone does not take their opinion as gospel is their issue and not mine.  Good decisions and knowledge is gained through vigorous debate. 

And AGAIN, this is not about my son.  He was has already been pulled up and played again for varsity yesterday. That does not mean I don't want a strong overall baseball program for those to come next.  Coaches and AD don't get a free pass and are not exempt from evaluation.  My employees get evaluated, my customers evaluate me.  No one is exempt from it.  

As I have said before I will join and get involved when my son is not on the team and there is not a conflict of interest.