Developing players, developing none...playing to win?? Nope.

Yesterday our Varsity and JV teams traveled to a local away game(s).  The team has adjacent varsity and JV fields.  Our varsity lost and the JV team won, but that is not what was significant.  We experienced a program working in complete unison.  

The varsity team sent down 3 players to get two at bats each on JV.  When they finished the two at bats they packed their bags and walked over to the varsity field to see if they would be needed for some role at the end of the varsity game.  Their freshman team was there with the JV team (I guess was off).  The coach of JV worked their performing players into some JV reps.  The JV players who had been performing and were the players needing work and development still got their reps.  

Well structured and organized.  We have never experienced anything close to that in our program.  Of course it is possible that parents of JV players complained that freshman got reps over under-performing JV players and that is why they lost, but the program can clearly explain they were executing a plan for the betterment of the entire program.  The plan was obvious and continuously executed.  The goal I am speaking of.  

The last season a kid plays a sport, is always the hardest on the parent, and the kid.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

Fixed that for you.

As I said in your other thread, if you have it all figured out why don't you apply to be a coach? I'm sure someone with your knowledge of the proper course of development of JV baseball talent would be a boon to the program.

I'll say this with complete sincerity - you are coming here not for advice, but for confirmation.  When the answers you seek aren't forthcoming your attitude becomes defensive and you circle the wagons.

You are not unique. Your experience is not unique. Your "specific situation" IS a generality when it has been seen dozens of times. Many of us have been in the same position. Most of us have kids that successfully navigated high school baseball despite the coaching challenges. Some of us have players that dealt with coaching situations far worse than what you are facing.

 

Well, if they could pay me like an SEC coaches salary I would consider it...otherwise not worth the money...

I was seeking people who had experienced before and first-hand accounts of what they did or did not do and why.  Some provide that and it is valuable.  Others provide critique.  I take both in and will use to decide any action to take or not.  The fact that people get offended if someone does not take their opinion as gospel is their issue and not mine.  Good decisions and knowledge is gained through vigorous debate. 

And AGAIN, this is not about my son.  He was has already been pulled up and played again for varsity yesterday. That does not mean I don't want a strong overall baseball program for those to come next.  Coaches and AD don't get a free pass and are not exempt from evaluation.  My employees get evaluated, my customers evaluate me.  No one is exempt from it.  

As I have said before I will join and get involved when my son is not on the team and there is not a conflict of interest.  

 

I was going to go back, find a specific post and attach the following line to another post of yours. But this one will do ....

You don’t even know what it is you don't know. At best most people here are getting a chuckle out of your ignorance. 

There isn't a high school baseball coach anywhere who is in it for the money. Even less so at the sub varsity level. They don’t coach for financial reward. They coach out of love and respect for the game. 

What people like you do is drive coaches away from the high school game. They decide parents like you suck the passion out of the game.

SultanofSwat posted:

The last season a kid plays a sport, is always the hardest on the parent, and the kid.

This is often the case with part time playing sophs on JV.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Well, if they could pay me like an SEC coaches salary I would consider it...otherwise not worth the money...

 

 

Guess what makes it "not worth the money" to a lot of guys?

 

You don’t even know what it is you don't know. At best most people here are getting a chuckle out of your ignorance. 

There isn't a high school baseball coach anywhere who is in it for the money. Even less so at the sub varsity level. They don’t coach for financial reward. They coach out of love and respect for the game. 

What people like you do is drive coaches away from the high school game. They decide parents like you suck the passion out of the game.

Just out of curiosity, who does know what they don't know...

and, I have met multiple coaches who do it for the extra stipend on top of their teachers pay.  Hell, my mother's husband was one of those. He coached soccer.  He liked it, but did it for the extra money.   I am sure many don't though, but obviously your generalization that "their isn't a coach out there" is ridiculous.  

By people like me, you of course mean people who have never had a conversation with a coach about their team, but then have discussions about it online.  Naturally.  

 

 

 

Guess what makes it "not worth the money" to a lot of guys?

hmmm...clay stains making laundry annoying? 

I thought this quote was special & applies to this discussion & wanted to share it. My HS coach is retiring after 50 years. He has the state record for wins at over 600. This is what he told me recently; " I try my best to show the passion the game of baseball deserves. Players who play with that passion paint a beautiful picture as they play the game. That has been my goal." 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

 

 

Guess what makes it "not worth the money" to a lot of guys?

hmmm...clay stains making laundry annoying? 

Your coaches wash your kids uniforms?

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Yesterday our Varsity and JV teams traveled to a local away game(s).  The team has adjacent varsity and JV fields.  Our varsity lost and the JV team won, but that is not what was significant.  We experienced a program working in complete unison.  

The varsity team sent down 3 players to get two at bats each on JV.  When they finished the two at bats they packed their bags and walked over to the varsity field to see if they would be needed for some role at the end of the varsity game.  Their freshman team was there with the JV team (I guess was off).  The coach of JV worked their performing players into some JV reps.  The JV players who had been performing and were the players needing work and development still got their reps.  

Well structured and organized.  We have never experienced anything close to that in our program.  Of course it is possible that parents of JV players complained that freshman got reps over under-performing JV players and that is why they lost, but the program can clearly explain they were executing a plan for the betterment of the entire program.  The plan was obvious and continuously executed.  The goal I am speaking of.  

My biggest question... so, what do you think changed?

A few side notes...  

While this type of movement is similar to what we do, realize that there is now a subset of parents that are further maddened by this.  You started with your group of 19 on JV, added 3 from V and some from the freshman team for your JV game, so there were about five additional players taking yet more reps, AB's and time away from the group that wasn't getting enough as it was.  So, in this instance, it satisfied the direction you are looking for but turned others involved in the program in a quite different direction based on their perspective.  Point being that no matter what direction the coach takes, there will be many that are unhappy and think it is the wrong direction from their perspective.  Now, you have a JV coach trying to juggle about 24 players into a game.  

Mostly unrelated - I've heard this type of same-day movement is allowed in some states but not the case here in Calif.  You can play only at one level on a given day.   So, our movement has to be for the whole day or more, at least based on Southern Section rules.

 

My biggest question... so, what do you think changed?

A few side notes...  

While this type of movement is similar to what we do, realize that there is now a subset of parents that are further maddened by this.  You started with your group of 19 on JV, added 3 from V and some from the freshman team for your JV game, so there were about five additional players taking yet more reps, AB's and time away from the group that wasn't getting enough as it was.  So, in this instance, it satisfied the direction you are looking for but turned others involved in the program in a quite different direction based on their perspective.  Point being that no matter what direction the coach takes, there will be many that are unhappy and think it is the wrong direction from their perspective.  Now, you have a JV coach trying to juggle about 24 players into a game.  

Mostly unrelated - I've heard this type of same-day movement is allowed in some states but not the case here in Calif.  You can play only at one level on a given day.   So, our movement has to be for the whole day or more, at least based on Southern Section rules.

Interesting rule in Cali.  Sorry, if I was not clear.  It was our opponent that had the players switching around, not us.  They carry a JV roster of just 13.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

Yesterday our Varsity and JV teams traveled to a local away game(s).  The team has adjacent varsity and JV fields.  Our varsity lost and the JV team won, but that is not what was significant.  We experienced a program working in complete unison.  

The varsity team sent down 3 players to get two at bats each on JV.  When they finished the two at bats they packed their bags and walked over to the varsity field to see if they would be needed for some role at the end of the varsity game.  Their freshman team was there with the JV team (I guess was off).  The coach of JV worked their performing players into some JV reps.  The JV players who had been performing and were the players needing work and development still got their reps.  

Well structured and organized.  We have never experienced anything close to that in our program.  Of course it is possible that parents of JV players complained that freshman got reps over under-performing JV players and that is why they lost, but the program can clearly explain they were executing a plan for the betterment of the entire program.  The plan was obvious and continuously executed.  The goal I am speaking of.  

If you said that this happened then I will have to believe it.  However, how large was that roster that this JV coach turned in?  It has to have the names of varsity, jv and freshman players all on that list.  If the JV has 19 players then the math is amazing.  Would that roster list then be like colleges with about 30 names on it?  

I've been around for a while as both a HC and as an AC.  I've been fortunate enough to have been in over 800 wins in one fashion or another in baseball and then 300+ in softball.  As I said, I am old.  The key in developing a program is to have consistency.  What you outlined is not consistent.  If your statement is correct, there are approximately 10-12 players on that jv roster who received little or no playing time.  In our society today, parents such as yourself who are upset about the treatment of their child and of whom readily complain would be in the AD's office the next day.  We participate in a very tough JV tournament that is JV in name only as all but seniors of the 8 teams in the tournament show up to play.  My team took a couple of varsity players but we played every player on the jv roster in every game.  Still, my AD received phone calls even though I sent out a letter to every player's parents on what would transpire in the tournament including a history of the tournament stating that this tournament is, in a way, a way for many teams to assess their teams for next year.  

Finally, I know very few coaches who coach for the money.  I have not had a day off in 3 weeks.  We have had 4 hour hitting sessions every Sunday during that span of time and host a big tournament this week.  Sunday will be my first day off in what seems like forever.  I get paid my school's minimum despite my experience.  Yes, it makes me angry but I really coach because I love coaching and being around the players and other coaches.  Next year will be my last.  In my time, I've been the HC of 4 sports.  I've had one losing season in any of those sports.  I am known to almost all coaches in my area.  Heck, one coach asked me to give a quick hitting lesson to one of his players after a game last week while another asked me to work with one of his pitchers.  In all of this time, I would estimate that only 4 or 5 of all of the coaches I know do so for the money.  

CoachB25 posted:

N

 

If you said that this happened then I will have to believe it.  However, how large was that roster that this JV coach turned in?  It has to have the names of varsity, jv and freshman players all on that list.  If the JV has 19 players then the math is amazing.  Would that roster list then be like colleges with about 30 names on it?  

I've been around for a while as both a HC and as an AC.  I've been fortunate enough to have been in over 800 wins in one fashion or another in baseball and then 300+ in softball.  As I said, I am old.  The key in developing a program is to have consistency.  What you outlined is not consistent.  If your statement is correct, there are approximately 10-12 players on that jv roster who received little or no playing time.  In our society today, parents such as yourself who are upset about the treatment of their child and of whom readily complain would be in the AD's office the next day.  We participate in a very tough JV tournament that is JV in name only as all but seniors of the 8 teams in the tournament show up to play.  My team took a couple of varsity players but we played every player on the jv roster in every game.  Still, my AD received phone calls even though I sent out a letter to every player's parents on what would transpire in the tournament including a history of the tournament stating that this tournament is, in a way, a way for many teams to assess their teams for next year.  

Finally, I know very few coaches who coach for the money.  I have not had a day off in 3 weeks.  We have had 4 hour hitting sessions every Sunday during that span of time and host a big tournament this week.  Sunday will be my first day off in what seems like forever.  I get paid my school's minimum despite my experience.  Yes, it makes me angry but I really coach because I love coaching and being around the players and other coaches.  Next year will be my last.  In my time, I've been the HC of 4 sports.  I've had one losing season in any of those sports.  I am known to almost all coaches in my area.  Heck, one coach asked me to give a quick hitting lesson to one of his players after a game last week while another asked me to work with one of his pitchers.  In all of this time, I would estimate that only 4 or 5 of all of the coaches I know do so for the money.  

Sounds like you are a great coach.  Congrats on your career and your retirement!  It was actually the other team that did this and they carry a JV roster of 13.  To be fair I only score our team in detail (game changer) and I did not even score this game since I was watching the varsity game where my son was playing.  Fields are next to each other so popped back and forth a little.  

Someone else scored it for me and I can't say for definite how many of their freshman batted versus played in the field. I just know they played and for a few innings were the whole infield.  

Well I'll say this.  I think all coaches should read Sacred Hoops by Phil Jackson.  I thought the guy sucked as a coach, until I read it.  Then I completely understood him.  The main take away was winning those NBA championships wasn't as much about the Xs and Ox (he had Tex Winter for that).  Instead, it was about managing the egos.  Getting players to understand their roles and how to play as a team.  In my experience, there are few high school coaches who are good at that.  You see, most people just want to know what is going on  --  How are you running things, what are decisions based on.  If you explain it to the parents at the parents meeting, and let the kids know as the season progresses, much frustration will be avoided.  Of course you won't please everyone, but nobody can claim ignorance.  It's when decisions are made that make zero sense, and zero communication, that things get out of wack.  

You can play to win and develop talent at the same time.  The best programs do it.  Loosing begets loosing.  If you're loosing at the lower levels, chances are you're not winning at the higher levels.  

And coachB25, you are a rare breed.  You're dedicated and you care.  You probably weren't an expert in all the sports you coached when you started.  But you took the time and probably some lumps.  If our coaches where 75% of you, life would be good.  But unfortunately, they are not.  We have been mercy ruled several times.  The last one, the game was so fast, we still had 1.5 hours of light left.  One would think it would have been a good time to get some practice in -- as we have way too many infield errors.  Did we?  Nope.  Clean up and go home.  Think we are out there 4 hours on Sunday hitting?  Heck sometimes we don't even hit before a game.  

So while Bunt may be over the top sometimes, I can definitely feel his pain.  

SultanofSwat posted:

The last season a kid plays a sport, is always the hardest on the parent, and the kid.

Sometimes. But I have noticed many, many times that parents have been watching their kids play their last games without knowing it. 

  Think we are out there 4 hours on Sunday hitting?  Heck sometimes we don't even hit before a game.  

So while Bunt may be over the top sometimes, I can definitely feel his pain.  

This one struck me as amusing.  JV has never practiced on a Sunday.  They have hit before the game maybe half the home games.  For away games the kids get dismissed from class early with Varsity. Then varsity goes into the gym and we have a drop-down cage they use for pre-game BP.  JV is not allowed to hit before games, they stand outside and wait for varsity and then they get on the bus together.  The coach brings no tee for kids to take a swing before away games.  You step up and hit. 

Interesting - by VHSL rules (Virginia), no varsity or JV games or practice are permitted on Sunday.  There is an exception for Varsity playoffs if there are time constraints due to games missed because of weather.

Golfman25 posted:

Well I'll say this.  I think all coaches should read Sacred Hoops by Phil Jackson.  I thought the guy sucked as a coach, until I read it.  Then I completely understood him.  The main take away was winning those NBA championships wasn't as much about the Xs and Ox (he had Tex Winter for that).  Instead, it was about managing the egos.  Getting players to understand their roles and how to play as a team.  In my experience, there are few high school coaches who are good at that.  You see, most people just want to know what is going on  --  How are you running things, what are decisions based on.  If you explain it to the parents at the parents meeting, and let the kids know as the season progresses, much frustration will be avoided.  Of course you won't please everyone, but nobody can claim ignorance.  It's when decisions are made that make zero sense, and zero communication, that things get out of wack.  

You can play to win and develop talent at the same time.  The best programs do it.  Loosing begets loosing.  If you're loosing at the lower levels, chances are you're not winning at the higher levels.  

And coachB25, you are a rare breed.  You're dedicated and you care.  You probably weren't an expert in all the sports you coached when you started.  But you took the time and probably some lumps.  If our coaches where 75% of you, life would be good.  But unfortunately, they are not.  We have been mercy ruled several times.  The last one, the game was so fast, we still had 1.5 hours of light left.  One would think it would have been a good time to get some practice in -- as we have way too many infield errors.  Did we?  Nope.  Clean up and go home.  Think we are out there 4 hours on Sunday hitting?  Heck sometimes we don't even hit before a game.  

So while Bunt may be over the top sometimes, I can definitely feel his pain.  

Well, by our HS regulations, we are not allowed to practice after a game on the same day and not allowed to practice on Sunday... 

... and I'm pretty sure that Phil Jackson did not communicate regularly with the parents of his players 

Luv ya, golf 

I'm of the belief, "It's not about the X's & O's, it's about the Jimmy's & Joes!" 

Yep, no Sunday practices or games allowed here, and also BTW, other than whiffles, no batting practice allowed on site before games.

Also agree with Coach May -- our JV program is .500 at best, but V wins league about 50% of the time.

One thing, though. Hard work is hard work, and talent is talent.  I've been trying to coach this girl up but it's just never going to work.  But she enjoys the game.

cabbagedad posted:

... and I'm pretty sure that Phil Jackson did not communicate regularly with the parents of his players 

Luv ya, golf 

Actually, it was worse. He communicated with the media and the fans.  Who can be worse than the parents.     And one name for you -- Lavar Ball.  

Not that it matters but I should clarify that our Sunday "practice" is player driven and no one has to show up.  Typically, I let them know when I will be there if they want to hit and then, we get a list started.  We only ask of them a few things.  If they show up, they have to be there for 30 minutes.  They have to be focused when there so no phones.  Finally, they have to help break stuff down at the end if they are there.  We set up 2 front toss stations, a machine, 4 tee stations and one station where the hitter throws the ball up to themselves and hits it into a net.  We are averaging between 12-14 players every Sunday.  One or two will be there the entire time.  Oh, and yes, their parents can come and watch.  I don't have any secrets.  

JCG, we bought my daughter a Cavapoo after she got her teaching job.  That puppy is now 7 months old.  I am amazed at the amount of things it can do including, shake, sit, stay, high five, walk on its back legs, speak, heel, ... and it know the difference between its toys by name.  The one bad thing is that the puppy figured out right away how to open its cage.  So, we have to use a bolt snap to keep the door closed.  

Golfman25 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

... and I'm pretty sure that Phil Jackson did not communicate regularly with the parents of his players 

Luv ya, golf 

Actually, it was worse. He communicated with the media and the fans.  Who can be worse than the parents.     And one name for you -- Lavar Ball.  

Hahaha... yeah, as you can imagine, not one of my most favorite people in the world.  

cabbagedad posted:

Golfman25 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

... and I'm pretty sure that Phil Jackson did not communicate regularly with the parents of his players 

Luv ya, golf 

Actually, it was worse. He communicated with the media and the fans.  Who can be worse than the parents.     And one name for you -- Lavar Ball.  

Hahaha... yeah, as you can imagine, not one of my most favorite people in the world.  

Lavar Ball just had his kids call in sick to a game in Lithuania. Then he put them on a plane to the US before the team would know they are gone. Classy move! < sarcasm

Lonzo has already made a statement he’s his own man. The advice to make this statement probably came from an older NBA star. 

The middle kid was a mid major prospect at best. Lavar has probably ruined the youngest’s NBA chances. 

  The dude on the left will play some short for BP but you will not get the balls back. Gal on Right is a non prospect but likes to watch.         

I sent an email to my son's Varsity coach who he has played for the past two years. First time I've ever done it- was partially inspired by this thread.

I thanked him for holding my son out of the past couple of games, and looking out for his health. He had a nagging injury, and even though he could have been used on the field, the coach determined that playing him before it healed could make things worse down the road. 

   It never would've occurred to me to email at all, till I wondered about how many negative/cajoling/flattering emails he's had over the years. Thought I'd balance things out....I was very careful not to say anything about baseball.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted: these posts never cease to make me laugh.  People draw and make up ridiculous conclusions based on nothing more than imagination.   Then apply generalities to a specific situation they have literally no knowledge of or exposure to.  

Statements like "all you’re doing is running your mouth and very likely causing problems for the coach."  

The coach and I have never spoken more than hello.  Well, I guess that is not true.  The game before last I was drinking coffee and it was cold and he came up to me asked me if it was ice or hot coffee.  We then discussed it was gonna warm in the next few days.  It is possible he took my comment about "warming" as a dig that his team needs to "heat up" their performance.  hmmm...maybe I have gone too far.  

No need to apologize, you are probably right.  There is no way a football coach trying to coach baseball for the first time can be over his head.  

You prove my point by not understanding that the only problems someone like you causes aren’t from direct confrontations with the coach. I’m only a lowly scorer, but I sit in the bleachers where I hear a great many things, bitching about the coach among them. If you’re willing to come to a forum like this one and go on ad nauseam the way you have, I’d be willing to bet large sums your son has heard you say something derogatory about the coach or the program, and I’d bet even larger sums that during games or conversations with others having some kind of interest in the program, you’ve done the same thing. I hate it when people are called cancers because they somehow destroy a team from inside, but you sure seem like the poster boy to me.  

You may think you aren’t causing anyone any kind of problems, but trust me, we all have at one time or another. What makes the difference is, if it’s chronic or something done in the heat of passion or frustration. With all due respect, you come across as a chronic complainer.

Stats4Gnats posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted: these posts never cease to make me laugh.  People draw and make up ridiculous conclusions based on nothing more than imagination.   Then apply generalities to a specific situation they have literally no knowledge of or exposure to.  

Statements like "all you’re doing is running your mouth and very likely causing problems for the coach."  

The coach and I have never spoken more than hello.  Well, I guess that is not true.  The game before last I was drinking coffee and it was cold and he came up to me asked me if it was ice or hot coffee.  We then discussed it was gonna warm in the next few days.  It is possible he took my comment about "warming" as a dig that his team needs to "heat up" their performance.  hmmm...maybe I have gone too far.  

No need to apologize, you are probably right.  There is no way a football coach trying to coach baseball for the first time can be over his head.  

You prove my point by not understanding that the only problems someone like you causes aren’t from direct confrontations with the coach. I’m only a lowly scorer, but I sit in the bleachers where I hear a great many things, bitching about the coach among them. If you’re willing to come to a forum like this one and go on ad nauseam the way you have, I’d be willing to bet large sums your son has heard you say something derogatory about the coach or the program, and I’d bet even larger sums that during games or conversations with others having some kind of interest in the program, you’ve done the same thing. I hate it when people are called cancers because they somehow destroy a team from inside, but you sure seem like the poster boy to me.  

You may think you aren’t causing anyone any kind of problems, but trust me, we all have at one time or another. What makes the difference is, if it’s chronic or something done in the heat of passion or frustration. With all due respect, you come across as a chronic complainer.

If you think a 17-18 year old kid who has played baseball since he's been in diapers needs his dad to tell him what to think I have a bridge to sell you.  These players, many of which play for good travel organizations, know good coaching and good baseball.  They can spot a phony.  They don't need dad to tell them.  

I went from Head Coach and Assistant Coach to dad sitting in stands.  I will admit that I have questioned a few things and had discussions with a few other dads.  But I have also been very supportive of the Head Coach.   They don't get it enough.  It has been tough when you were the one making decisions and had everyone else questioning your logic to having no control.  I don't think we say thank you enough to high school coaches.  I have coached every sport at some point as a lay coach.  Our coach missed his own's son game the other night to coach my son in District Championship.  I know he loved it because we won but I also know he hurt because he was not there for his son. 

Don't get so caught up in the fact that coaches are in it for the money.  I believe that is 1% of all high school coaches.  They are in it for the love of the game and the kids.  Don't forget to say thank you to the men and women who invest in our kids.  Maybe we can offset some of these that are always complaining. 

Thank you coaches on here who love on kids and teach the game.

Can I get an Amen?

Golfman25 posted: If you think a 17-18 year old kid who has played baseball since he's been in diapers needs his dad to tell him what to think I have a bridge to sell you.  These players, many of which play for good travel organizations, know good coaching and good baseball.  They can spot a phony.  They don't need dad to tell them.  

 It isn’t that players don’t know a good coach for a bad one! It’s that hearing adults chirping in the background gives credence to the thought. And for that matter, would you trust the judgment of a 17-18 YO in such things? But the real problem comes from the dissention created in the stands. Not every parent can tell the difference between a good coach or a bad one, so the loudmouth in the stands will often be believed whether s/he’s right or wrong.

Golfman25 posted:

If you think a 17-18 year old kid who has played baseball since he's been in diapers needs his dad to tell him what to think I have a bridge to sell you.  These players, many of which play for good travel organizations, know good coaching and good baseball.  They can spot a phony.  They don't need dad to tell them.  

I agree when you're talking a good coach versus a piss poor coach. But a lot of times at home its a simple as second guessing. If I send a kid and he gets thrown out, or make a pitching change that backfires, or bunt a kid and we don't score a run, or DON'T bunt a kid and we don't score a run, if when the kid gets home he hears "man, I can believe your coach did that!! That was stupid. Here's what he should've done." It erodes a kids confidence in the coach, because everyone is right about whatever decision after the fact. And believe me, these second-guessing parents aren't praising the coach at home when the in-game decisions did work out.

So while a parent can't make a good coach seem bad or vice versa, I do believe they can impact the kids perceptions of a coach in a lot of small instances, which add up over 4 years.

You guys never cease to amuse me.  Coming up with these scenarios.  Parents at home poisoning kids to a coach.  Parents in the stands destroying a team. 

Do any of you believe for even a second that 15-17 year olds need a parent involved for them to decide on their own if to judge or not judge a coach. A decision.  A scenario.   If they think a switch should or not have been made or a runner sent or a batter subbed.  

You can take every parent on earth and gag them for the entire year and the kids will judge and bitch and complain on their own.  This happens no matter what.  Just like they do about teachers and us as parents when not around.  Kids know which coaches are good and which are not and they have minds of their own to make judgments.  I know my son and I have debated strategies multiple times, sometimes I agree with coach strategy and sometimes he does.  They do it with their teammates as well, cause they care. Because it is human nature.  

This is so hypocritical. On one thread you will jump up and down that these kids are going to college and they need to own the recruiting process, be adults. On the next they are 5 year olds whose entire perception of the team is poisoned by a parent questioning something.  Eroding perception of a coach.  

When the player steps on the field it is up to the coach to manage them.  If the player is disrespectful or does not listen they deal with it.  My son and I can disagree with everything a coach does, says and thinks outside the lines. If my son ignored or disrespected that coach or any teacher he would have hell to pay with me and he knows it.  Not that he would anyway.  

 

You prove my point by not understanding that the only problems someone like you causes aren’t from direct confrontations with the coach. I’m only a lowly scorer, but I sit in the bleachers where I hear a great many things, bitching about the coach among them. If you’re willing to come to a forum like this one and go on ad nauseam the way you have, I’d be willing to bet large sums your son has heard you say something derogatory about the coach or the program, and I’d bet even larger sums that during games or conversations with others having some kind of interest in the program, you’ve done the same thing. I hate it when people are called cancers because they somehow destroy a team from inside, but you sure seem like the poster boy to me.  

You may think you aren’t causing anyone any kind of problems, but trust me, we all have at one time or another. What makes the difference is, if it’s chronic or something done in the heat of passion or frustration. With all due respect, you come across as a chronic complainer.

Next you will tell me that fans in the stands at Fenway are ruining the Red Sox or the newspapers should't write articles that are critical of coaches because players read and degrades the team or Stanton's slump is because.

Part of sports is second guessing.  I rarely agree with our beloved president...but he is right about one thing...people are tooooo sensitive.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

You guys never cease to amuse me.  Coming up with these scenarios.  Parents at home poisoning kids to a coach.  Parents in the stands destroying a team. 

Do any of you believe for even a second that 15-17 year olds need a parent involved for them to decide on their own if to judge or not judge a coach. A decision.  A scenario.   If they think a switch should or not have been made or a runner sent or a batter subbed.  

You can take every parent on earth and gag them for the entire year and the kids will judge and bitch and complain on their own.  This happens no matter what.  Just like they do about teachers and us as parents when not around.  Kids know which coaches are good and which are not and they have minds of their own to make judgments.  I know my son and I have debated strategies multiple times, sometimes I agree with coach strategy and sometimes he does.  They do it with their teammates as well, cause they care. Because it is human nature.  

This is so hypocritical. On one thread you will jump up and down that these kids are going to college and they need to own the recruiting process, be adults. On the next they are 5 year olds whose entire perception of the team is poisoned by a parent questioning something.  Eroding perception of a coach.  

When the player steps on the field it is up to the coach to manage them.  If the player is disrespectful or does not listen they deal with it.  My son and I can disagree with everything a coach does, says and thinks outside the lines. If my son ignored or disrespected that coach or any teacher he would have hell to pay with me and he knows it.  Not that he would anyway.  

 

I don't think that was the point Stats was trying to make.  He wasn't saying that kids don't have their own thoughts, but rather, parents' negativity can do the following:

• Increase/Add/Create negative thoughts regarding the coaches/program
• Provide kids with an excuse
• Validate negative behavior and thoughts
• Drive a wedge between player and program
• Drive a wedge between parents and program
• Be a Cancer

They say one should not be "that guy", but whether you know it or not, you are acting like "that guy".  I personally don't believe you believe half the stuff you're spewing.  I think you are just yanking everyone's chain.  It doesn't seem possible that there could be so many good pieces of advice, and you have pretty much dismissed all of them.  At some point, I would have thought you would have had that "Aha" moment, but surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be registering. 

It's really sad that you are going to spend the majority of your kid's HS career with a poor attitude towards the experience.  Trust me, you will regret it later.  I had plenty of negative thoughts about son's program, and I still believe some things should have been done differently, and my son was in a great HS Program.  It's never going to be a perfectly, optimal situation.  There is always going to be something that bothers you.  No coach is perfect.  No program is perfect.  If Bobby Cox can be questioned, than any manager can.  

As many have stated, you are not in the private coaches' conversations.  You do not know everything that is going on.  Why did coach remove the best player?  Why is he pitching this kid? Are you kidding me, Little Johnny is on the bench again.  These kinds of questions can be asked frequently, and you will just ruin your experience if you put too much stock into it.  I used to have sleepless nights thinking about this stuff.  It 100% is not worth it.  It really DOES NOT matter!  Your kid will be fine, and you will have so much more fun and memories if you give it a rest.  Relax!  It will be fine.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

You guys never cease to amuse me.  Coming up with these scenarios.  Parents at home poisoning kids to a coach.  Parents in the stands destroying a team. 

Do any of you believe for even a second that 15-17 year olds need a parent involved for them to decide on their own if to judge or not judge a coach. A decision.  A scenario.   If they think a switch should or not have been made or a runner sent or a batter subbed.  

You can take every parent on earth and gag them for the entire year and the kids will judge and bitch and complain on their own.  This happens no matter what.  Just like they do about teachers and us as parents when not around.  Kids know which coaches are good and which are not and they have minds of their own to make judgments.  I know my son and I have debated strategies multiple times, sometimes I agree with coach strategy and sometimes he does.  They do it with their teammates as well, cause they care. Because it is human nature.  

This is so hypocritical. On one thread you will jump up and down that these kids are going to college and they need to own the recruiting process, be adults. On the next they are 5 year olds whose entire perception of the team is poisoned by a parent questioning something.  Eroding perception of a coach.  

When the player steps on the field it is up to the coach to manage them.  If the player is disrespectful or does not listen they deal with it.  My son and I can disagree with everything a coach does, says and thinks outside the lines. If my son ignored or disrespected that coach or any teacher he would have hell to pay with me and he knows it.  Not that he would anyway.  

 

Haha. You're really good for this board and I appreciate it. 

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

You prove my point by not understanding that the only problems someone like you causes aren’t from direct confrontations with the coach. I’m only a lowly scorer, but I sit in the bleachers where I hear a great many things, bitching about the coach among them. If you’re willing to come to a forum like this one and go on ad nauseam the way you have, I’d be willing to bet large sums your son has heard you say something derogatory about the coach or the program, and I’d bet even larger sums that during games or conversations with others having some kind of interest in the program, you’ve done the same thing. I hate it when people are called cancers because they somehow destroy a team from inside, but you sure seem like the poster boy to me.  

You may think you aren’t causing anyone any kind of problems, but trust me, we all have at one time or another. What makes the difference is, if it’s chronic or something done in the heat of passion or frustration. With all due respect, you come across as a chronic complainer.

Next you will tell me that fans in the stands at Fenway are ruining the Red Sox or the newspapers should't write articles that are critical of coaches because players read and degrades the team or Stanton's slump is because.

Part of sports is second guessing.  I rarely agree with our beloved president...but he is right about one thing...people are tooooo sensitive.  

Are you really equating professional sports with high school sports?  

I deleted the rest of this post that I worked a very long time typing.  The fact is that it just doesn't matter.  I will say this, if parents want to get off the porch and run with the big dog, be prepared for the big dog to bite.  In my case, I am about to take a chuck out of someone and I bite hard.  

 

 

They say one should not be "that guy", but whether you know it or not, you are acting like "that guy".  I personally don't believe you believe half the stuff you're spewing.  I think you are just yanking everyone's chain.  It doesn't seem possible that there could be so many good pieces of advice, and you have pretty much dismissed all of them.  At some point, I would have thought you would have had that "Aha" moment, but surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be registering. 

It's really sad that you are going to spend the majority of your kid's HS career with a poor attitude towards the experience.  Trust me, you will regret it later.  I had plenty of negative thoughts about son's program, and I still believe some things should have been done differently, and my son was in a great HS Program.  It's never going to be a perfectly, optimal situation.  There is always going to be something that bothers you.  No coach is perfect.  No program is perfect.  If Bobby Cox can be questioned, than any manager can.  

As many have stated, you are not in the private coaches' conversations.  You do not know everything that is going on.  Why did coach remove the best player?  Why is he pitching this kid? Are you kidding me, Little Johnny is on the bench again.  These kinds of questions can be asked frequently, and you will just ruin your experience if you put too much stock into it.  I used to have sleepless nights thinking about this stuff.  It 100% is not worth it.  It really DOES NOT matter!  Your kid will be fine, and you will have so much more fun and memories if you give it a rest.  Relax!  It will be fine.

 

So, as far as the advice.  Basically, I got how dare I as a parent question a coach and if I complain I likely know nothing and I am a cancer.  Oh, I also got JV is just gonna be bad, so deal with it.  I saw a JV program with a purpose and a strategy and execution of that strategy the other night and I want that for my town.  I just don't see that as crazy and if when my son graduates I can help make our town program better for the next group of kids to me that is a win.

As far listening to these posts.  I have read MANY posts here and I find the wisdom and experience in the recruiting process provided by others past experiences amazing and invaluable.  I have learned a ton and have educated my son with that info and taken steps based on it.  

The rest of your comments I appreciate.  I like to debate and I like to challenge conventional thought, please don't take that as not listening.  One thing I can promise you is I am thoroughly enjoying my son's high school baseball and baseball experience in general.  I love it.  I lose zero sleep over what I can't control and the conversations in our house are 90%  about mechanics or looking at a piece of video or strategy.  10% about the other nonsense.  My son really struggles with the slow fastball velocity in JV compared to travel or varsity.  A lot of work into patience at the plate.  

When he is gone I will miss all of it incredibly. 

When my son was a freshman the JV won a lot, everyone played and parents bitched. His following three years the varsity came in second and two firsts with a new coach after seventeen losing seasons in twenty years and the parents bitched. The parents of older players never got past the new coach was 11-31 with 14 one run losses his first two years. Part of those 14 losses were lack of talent. Part of it was lack of head coaching skills and experience. Once the coach turned it around during my son’s years the team came in first five times in eight years and the parents bitched.

As a successful travel coach I was constantly asked if i would have done this or that differently. Would I start this kid or that kid. Would the team win more if I was in charge. There were issues about the coach. But to a baseball person it was easy to see he was learning and growing. 

I would see the coach glaring in my direction when parents approached me. In my mind the answers to all these questions was yes. But I only had two answers. I’m glad he's the coach. I don’t want the job. And second, regardless of how I would do things there’s usually more than one correct option to get the job done. 

The parents bitched, and bitched and bitched about the coach. They went to the AD. I could see the personality flaws. But it wasn't worth complaining about. One night at dinner I asked my son if the players bitched about the coach. He said only the kids you would expect based on their parents complaining since LL all stars.

The coach once did something I thought was very unprofessional to my son. I was still pissed off three days later. My son informed me I shouldn’t be pissed off longer than he, so get over it. It took him until he fell asleep the night the coach did what he did to get over it.

My experience with high school sports is why after it’s obvious the original poster doesn't get it in these kinds of threads I just mostly read and laugh. My son’s baseball journey was just one of six high school sports situations with two kids.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

 

 

They say one should not be "that guy", but whether you know it or not, you are acting like "that guy".  I personally don't believe you believe half the stuff you're spewing.  I think you are just yanking everyone's chain.  It doesn't seem possible that there could be so many good pieces of advice, and you have pretty much dismissed all of them.  At some point, I would have thought you would have had that "Aha" moment, but surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be registering. 

It's really sad that you are going to spend the majority of your kid's HS career with a poor attitude towards the experience.  Trust me, you will regret it later.  I had plenty of negative thoughts about son's program, and I still believe some things should have been done differently, and my son was in a great HS Program.  It's never going to be a perfectly, optimal situation.  There is always going to be something that bothers you.  No coach is perfect.  No program is perfect.  If Bobby Cox can be questioned, than any manager can.  

As many have stated, you are not in the private coaches' conversations.  You do not know everything that is going on.  Why did coach remove the best player?  Why is he pitching this kid? Are you kidding me, Little Johnny is on the bench again.  These kinds of questions can be asked frequently, and you will just ruin your experience if you put too much stock into it.  I used to have sleepless nights thinking about this stuff.  It 100% is not worth it.  It really DOES NOT matter!  Your kid will be fine, and you will have so much more fun and memories if you give it a rest.  Relax!  It will be fine.

 

So, as far as the advice.  Basically, I got how dare I as a parent question a coach and if I complain I likely know nothing and I am a cancer.  Oh, I also got JV is just gonna be bad, so deal with it.  I saw a JV program with a purpose and a strategy and execution of that strategy the other night and I want that for my town.  I just don't see that as crazy and if when my son graduates I can help make our town program better for the next group of kids to me that is a win.

As far listening to these posts.  I have read MANY posts here and I find the wisdom and experience in the recruiting process provided by others past experiences amazing and invaluable.  I have learned a ton and have educated my son with that info and taken steps based on it.  

The rest of your comments I appreciate.  I like to debate and I like to challenge conventional thought, please don't take that as not listening.  One thing I can promise you is I am thoroughly enjoying my son's high school baseball and baseball experience in general.  I love it.  I lose zero sleep over what I can't control and the conversations in our house are 90%  about mechanics or looking at a piece of video or strategy.  10% about the other nonsense.  My son really struggles with the slow fastball velocity in JV compared to travel or varsity.  A lot of work into patience at the plate.  

When he is gone I will miss all of it incredibly. 

Second guessing etc. is a part of the expected from parents.  After all, it is a norm of life.  The difference then, and in my opinion, is when that second guessing, complaining, bad mouthing, ... all are from ignorance and stupidity.  For example, complaining about the innings your child pitches and saying that your child is the best and deserves the most innings when the opposite is the truth.  Then, offending every parent around who has any sense of reality as said parent continues to whine and complain to anyone and everyone in sight.  That then gets passed on to the child and can jeopardize their career.  I especially don't appreciate it when it is done behind my back.  Expect for me to show up and give you that chance to do it man to man, face to face.  The notion that coaches are some wimp teacher who can't do anything else and so, teaches and coaches is far from the truth.  Then, naturally, there are those who can't stop themselves and so attack other players on the team in order to build their child up.  How pathetic they are!

 " I saw a JV program with a purpose and a strategy and execution of that strategy the other night and I want that for my town.  I just don't see that as crazy and if when my son graduates I can help make our town program better for the next group of kids to me that is a win."

What you describe is clearly developed prior to ever setting foot on a HS field. The HS coach simply assembles the puzzle of players. 

All HS baseball players, unfortunately, do not have the same motivation or the same end goal. Most share the love of the game, some, more than others. Some workout consistently, eat clean, hit on their own, pitch on their own, field on their own, ect............Some are only willing to simply put in the required practice it takes to be on the HS team.

The game does demand a high level of commitment and "extra" is part of the game that most players are not willing to dish out. For some it's just not of the same importance as it may be to a motivated player seeking an opportunity beyond HS. For others, it could be college/career interest, girls, trucks, fishing, mission work.....you name it.

These are all observations from my perspective as I have watched my sons go through the process in hockey and baseball. I have an infield, pitching tunnel/cage at my home ( yes, a rink/flood pond in the winter) . My sons have reached out to teammates many times through the years to hit, workout, throw..........the ones that have participated consistently through the years I can count on one hand. It cost no money to participate, nor does it cost to dream. The cost is hard work, sweat, perseverance and saying no to things that are not in your best interest. To me, EXTRA is the basis of the purpose, strategy and execution you are craving for others. It comes from within.

Start up FREE clinics at the youth level, maybe you can get the community behind it. You will likely find most will show up but a time or two. I myself, doubled back to coach youth baseball  locally to teach fundamentals of the game after years of coaching at an academy. I have about 3 or 4 that attend every practice out of 13. The other 9 or so parents and players have little respect or skin in the game and are distracted by other activities.