Dirtbags Baseball

one problem with legion baseball is,, there isn't enough teams. at least not in our area. Take a look at the dirtbags website and see what they say about their organization and their alumni. I wonder if all those alumni know how they are deceiving people now. At the time the dirtbagsa advertised tryouts on other websites they said you was trying out for a showcase team then they said it was a 14u team. There wasn't even any such thing as a dirtbags instructional or scout teams. They knew all along they were lying to the parents and the players. That's what has me so peeved off. If they told me the tryouts wasn't tryouts but sign ups and that every player that showed up would be on the team, as long as they paid the money, then I'd feel different about it. Please don't take this wrong but there are several players on these "scout teams" that couldn't even make the high school team. I'm sorry to say this,,, but sometimes a young man just isn't going to be a baseball player. If we tried out and was told that we wasn't good enough to play for the dirtbags then, sure my feelings would be hurt, but then we would have knew they told us how they felt and we would of moved on. I've been lied to and deceived by the dirtbags and impact baseball and it's going to cost a couple thousand dollars and I'll live with it, who knows something good might come from it.(only because of the young man that it would hurt if I took further actions).

First of all, I will not profess to be an expert on "travel ball".  Nonetheless, I am around it, surrounded by young men who play it (at various levels), and routinely talk with parents and/or coaches of it.

Here is one man's observation:

a) Travel ball at the younger ages (perhaps 14U and below) is viewed as a better aternative to Little League (and the like).  Less politics, better competition, coaching etc.  It is at this level where a parent might expect their child to receive the "coaching and development" that they hope for.

b)  "SHOWCASE" baseball is different.  This is typically what "travel ball" is called once a kid is of varsity age.  There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of such teams across the country.  The players on these teams will not be "developed", per se.  They will be "showcased".  ie, they are designed to provide the young man exposure.

As has been referenced, some such programs have layers of teams at each age group.

I think the responsibility is that of the parent to best understand, and effort to perform the right due diligence prior to committing to such a team.  The hard truth is this:  Many parents do not fully understand what type of talent is required to play college baseball.  Most parents think that their son is going to get a "full ride" to a Division 1 school because he was the best kid on his Little League All-Star team three years ago!

It would pay huge dividends for parents to attempt to fully understand what their sons realistic prospects are, and then tailor their development and playing needs accordingly.

The issue at hand is not whether "travel ball" is better or worse than "American Legion".  The issue at hand is knowing where your son is best served based upon his skill set, or lack thereof!  While not always the case, the young man's high school coaching staff is most likely where he will receive the majority of his best instruction, along with more intimate college baseball camps.

While I understand and empathize with the posters on this thread, and their frustration...in simple terms, I would liken this to looking for love in all the wrong places.

It looks like people have two choices: 1) follow Go Heels excellent observations and move on or 2) continue to bltch and moan and be unhappy while accomplishing nothing.

Polkey ... First, from 13u to 16u I ran my own not for profit team with four dad coaches who were former college players. When it was time for showcase ball I investigated (or had already heard) about all the showcase teams of interest. Just by being involved in the game as the parent of a budding player I heard a lot. I knew which programs to avoid or what to look for within those programs. I also asked a lot of questions of other parents. My son made a good choice with my input. I did the same regarding college recruitment.

From what I know of the Dirtbags had we lived in NC and my son had been asked to play for the Dirtbag's A team we would have jumped all over it. Any program who would have a class act coach like Kenny May (Coach May on this board) is where I would want my son playing.

polkey - I’m sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience, but it sounds like you are learning and it sounds like you are learning a little late in the game (no pun intended). 

Things to think about and reflect on:

1.  Know your sons ability, if you are not able to sufficiently understand his abilities and where he fits against competition in his peer group, seek a third party for non-biased advice. 

2.  It sounds like your son has been placed on a development team for a large organization.  That’s not a bad thing at all and actually its a good thing.  You see it as him being placed on a "lesser" team with one coach running a two dug out scrimmage.  In reality, if he is with a development team large enough to intersquad against each other while the coach is able to see all the players on the field at once, to include providing instruction... its not a bad thing at all.  He will get better if he has an open mind.

3.  I’m not sure how old your son is, what grade he is in, or if he has played for his HS.  But if you don’t "buy into" the program (mentally, not monetarily), it will never work for your son or you.  To include HS, College, etc.  If you can’t handle it, go elsewhere.

4.  Have you talked to the coach, owner, team coordinator, etc.  Better yet, has your son?  What does your son think about all of this?  Is he learning, getting better?  Does he enjoy the team, coaches, and players? 

5.  Go watch one of the 17U teams or one of the scout teams play in a tournament.  Then ask yourself where your son belongs...

Everyone needs a sounding board every now and again and if you are posting here to vent, have at it.  But i would caution you to keep your emotions away from your son.  Full disclosure... I have no idea who the dirtbags are as I am on the west coast, so this advice is from the outside looking in.  Relax. 

This is key for every parent and every player.  My son's not at the showcase age yet, but I've peeked in on a few tri-state area teams over the past couple of years.  Hopefully we'll make a well-informed decision.

GOHEELS,

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I do think you've missed the point of this thread. Yes, it did get off on a more broader subject, but the main point is there are "showcase" travel team organizations out there are deceiving parents or just plain out lying about what the $1875 is paying for. Its not about little johnny not being as good as his parents think he is and he got put on a D team. If the travel team organization was the real deal, little johnny would not have made any team if he doesn't cut the mustard. The Dirtbags was once a great travel team organization, with only about 3 teams (17U, 16U, & 15U). They had the best of the best players. It was difficult to get on those team's rosters. But greed took over. The organization is deceiving parents just to get the $1875. In my experience, I was told my son would be one of 3 middle infielders. I was told we would have a coach that had many years of experience coaching baseball. I asked a lot of questions and my son did cut the mustard. I asked about each and every player currently being considered for the team. I specifically asked about a kid that we had heard was going to make the team. He was only in the 8th grade. All the other players were high school sophomores. The owner told me the kid was "recommended" to him by Josh ?.... the MLB player who plays for the Texas Rangers that struggled with a drinking/drugs problem..... can't remember his last name. Anyway, we later leaned that the kid's older brother who was 17 at the time, was playing on the owner's 17U team and that is why he made the team. And, we know what travel ball is all about because my husband coached one for 5 years. When we showed up for the first game of the season, the roster had increased from 14 to 18, with 6 middle infielders instead of 3. Our coach had never coached baseball. He volunteered to coach; therefore, he was not being paid. What we found out, was that our team was the funding team for the other16U team, which the owner coached. But in order to get my $1300, I was told a bold-face LIE, several of them. I wasn't the only parent lied to. Three kids quit with no refund. Aside from the team fee, hotel and gas expense was just too much when only playing an inning here and there. Meanwhile, the team owner had $3,900 extra in his pocket. The Dirtbag/Impact Baseball organization is rumored to have profited over $200K last year. Sounds like this season they have took on even a greater number of kids. I don't know for sure, it may just be coincidental, but the Dirtbag owner is building a brand new facility in Burlington. Do the math, based on the number of teams the Dirtbags had last year (three each for 17U/16U/15U/14U/13U and 20 kids per team), just on team fees alone, the owner would have pulled in over $550K. This does not include the money Impact Baseball team makes.

It's definitely sad to hear of parents who have been lied to or deceived.  I personally don't tolerate dishonesty.  That's bad joo-joo, and also bad for business. 

That in itself has raised a couple of questions in my mind.

1)  With such a great reputation, why would someone jeopardize all they have built (the organization) by lying to hundreds of parents.

2)  Having multiple age groups with multiple teams suggests that there may be as many as 300-500 young men associated with the organization.  That would also suggest that there are several hundred parents of these young men involved in the organization.  With that many people involved, I am surprised at the level of complaint.  (a whimper, if you will)  That tells me that, relatively speaking, there are not that many parents who feel this way.

For the benefit of everyone involved, I certainly hope that a good resolution is found.

in this country there are millions of people that are against the way our current government officials conduct business and how many of those millions ever speak up. You will hear whispers here and there about their dissatisfaction but only a few will really speak up and say what they believe in. This forum group has only a few members and I'll bet out of the parents of these players only a few of them know about this forum. I stated in an earlier post if anyone doesn't believe what I'm saying just go to one of these "scout teams" games and watch it and ask the parents what they feel about it. All I do is stand around and listen to their comments. The only place I've discussed any of this is on this forum. I've only talked to a few parents about it, but I've listened to several and hear their comments. I've never discussed it with the player that I take to the games, because I don't want him to have it on his mind. I think our young people have enough to deal with without me giving them more problems. I also stated that this is just my opinion. You say that you "don't tolerate dishonesty" when was the last time you stood up and spoke your mind about dishonesty. We as a public get ripped off daily at the gas station, the grocery store, the IRS, personal property taxes, I can go on and on with examples of getting ripped off and it's because of greed. So GOHEELS when was the last time you stood up and WHIMPERED about getting ripped off. At least I've got the personality to inform others of a scam and don't set around and whisper about it behind someones back.

I don't know anything about what goes on at the lower levels, so I can't comment on that. What I do know for a fact is that at the highest level the Dirtbags are one of the top programs in the country.  They have had many players become early draft picks and college All Americans.  They even have some in the Major Leagues.  They have won some of the top championships in travel baseball.  This is an extremely talented team and they conduct themselves with a lot of class.

Is it possible that hundreds of players and their parents want to take a shot at being on this team that creates great results for their players and then become disappointed when things don't work out that way.  Getting lots of exposure only works for those that possess the necessary talent.  Now if what is happening is DI and/or draft caliber kids are not getting in front of colleges and scouts, then that is a problem.  Maybe the goal should be to improve to the point where you are placed on the right team and at the right events. After all, they surely aren't going to hide the kids that have the most ability. Maybe the lower teams are for developmental purposes.  Have any players moved up with in the system?

the bottom line... I doubt many who have played on the Dirtbags national teams complain about anything or make accusations. On a national level this is a very well known top program.  Every opportunity in baseball is there for the player with the required talent.  Every player has the opportunity to be on or make that team.  If a player develops that ability, they are going to put on the national stage. If the player is not ready for that stage it makes no sense putting him in that situation.  Players do develop, sometimes quickly, if that happens it might be beneficial to be involved with a program that can put that player on the national map.  If it costs too much and you don't think it is possible, go do something else. It is not the IRS, you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to. I have to believe, be it the Dirtbags or any other of the nations top programs, they would absolutely love to see a player in their program develop into a college or pro player.  But that only happens when the player is actually ready for that next level.  They don't recruit you just because your on the field or on a roster.

one last thing... Parents are the very worst at evaluating their own sons.  I have known scouts that I consider among the very best evaluators of talent, but they think their own son is three times as talented as he really is.  It's because we love our sons and can't see straight when we judge their ability.  We don't see the player, we see our son!

PG,

Thank you for your post. I hope that those following this topic will read your reply over several times.

Same complaints regarding other top travel teams have occured here from time to time, or on other sites, about how big travel teams (also known as businesses)  tend to "screw" kids over and make lots of money in doing so. How does anyone know who made what and what their profits were? Does anyone have any CLUE how hard it is to run this type of business. And always keep in mind that it is a BUSINESS. People are in business to make money.  It's their business how they generate that profit and no one knows how unless they opened up their books and read their tax reports.

10 years ago my son joined a travel team, it was 3000 for the summer, that was TEN years ago. Included everything from soup to nuts and great exposure.  However, not everyone got the recognition from top college programs that their folks thought they deserved, and therefore the program wasn't worth the money they paid and didn't do their job. The complaints were endless, game after game. The shame of it was the kid was a really nice kid.  But I think that it was that as players that came from smaller private HS programs and dominated, they had trouble dominating against some of the better travel teams in the state let alone in the country. 

Now here we are 10 years later with some of the same type of complaints, which BTW,  I only see from a few, and most likely the same situation, the player just may not have been as good as the parent views the player.   That's not to say that I myself have not worn those rose colored glasses on occassion, but I don't ever remember placing blame and posting anywhere my son got the shaft, even the few times he did.

Maybe placing your son in the APPROPRIATE program is the key. 

FWIW, I know the negativity in this topic has bothered some and I am glad that PG has posted the above, because he is not alone in what he has conveyed.

If I had to do it all over again, I would do the same, with slight adjustments as to the year. We didn't bother with those high profile travel teams until son was in HS. Yes he had some very good skills, but those skills can only be developed when you play on a regular basis. We were in one such situation in middle school where only one or two teams in the organization played tournaments, and beleive it or not, mine wasn't even on the "best" team. That was kind of reserved for the owners "favorites" and some of the older more dominate players.  Did we care, no, son was playing every game in any position. The one time he was chosen to play in a tournament on the "better" team as a pitcher he sat. 

You do not have to  and it is not necessary to pay mega bucks for your 6th, 7th, 8th or even 9th grader to play. The only way you get better is playing and cost in summer or fall can be managed.  Yes, you could have spent that money sending your son to those ACC camps in hopes they would notice them, but ask yourself, at this point and time does your player have the skills for those programs to be noticed?

Most players do not.

The problem is that nowadays most folks think that they have to do what everyone else is doing, you know, that's keeping up with the Jones! 

Excellent back to back posts! Travel Ball at the highest levels require players that are capable of playing at the highest levels.  

Our experience and expense matches TPM's. Many a day goes buy when I look back and wish we could do it all over again. Not because we would change anything, but because we had such a great time.

The key always remains, go where they love you, and properly assess your talent so you can be a contributor right away. I know if my son had been riding the pine, our experience would have been much different.

PGStaff,

I appreciate your comments, but again, the main point of this thread is missed. Its easiest to chaulk this up to parents thinking their kid is better than they really are and that is why they are dissatisfied with a particular travel team organization.

This is much bigger than that. Its deception from the get-go.

I agree with you about the Dirtbags having great players that have gone on to make the rosters of D1 teams and MLB teams. But, showcase ball has become a huge revenue generator for some owners. They charge between $1300 and $1875 for one season of ball and provide absolutely no developmental instruction. Yes, showcase ball is all about "showcasing" your talent, so the fees would justify the means. But its screwed up now. The talent most likely does not pay the higher fees if any at all. The kids not on a "A" team are providing the dollars for owners to "showcase" the kids with the talent. The Dirtbag owners are taking advantage of the parents that are just overwhelmed with the thought of their kid "making a Dirtbag team". They don't know any better, even if you tell them what's in store for 'em.

The Dirtbags have "invited" this one kid to play this season. I have seen this kid play ball many times. The kid is not athletic enough to play baseball at the high school level. He certainly does not have the talent to play at D1/D2/D3 level. The Dirtbag staff has to know it.

No one wants to see it, but it is reality. The 'ole mighty dollar has taken hold and the lesser talented kids are paying the price.

They are offering opportunities, no one is forcing anyone to pay anything.

Should they just tell the folks that your kid is just not good enough to play for us, don't waste your money.

Please don't tell me that you are that naive to think that this just happens with the Dirtbags!

A local D1 held 7-12 age group baseball camps in our town park each summer. My son would go as an alternative babysitter to regular day camp. He would also attend college sponsored soccer and basketball camps at the park.

In a conversation with the coach he told me the camp pays a good portion of their spring trip. I asked if parents of 7-12 year olds ask him if their kid has college potentional. He tells the parents if their kids practice hard there's no telling how far they will go. He commented, am I supposed to tell parents their preteen stinks and they're wasting money? There are parents who actually take the "no telling" comment to heart and start loading up on private lessons.

If a kid isn't on a 17u team he's not on a showcase team. He's on a developmental team. If a kid is going to be on a developmental team expect the organizarion to take the parent's money. It's important to ask up front what's involved with the team. Make zero assumptions.

Whattoknow -

When my son played Travel Ball, we paid the same as you are quoting. There was virtually NO Instruction, nor did I want my son to really receive any from the programs he played for. We did not play travel ball for instruction, we played travel ball for opportunities to play against talented opposition and for exposure to College Recruiters and Professional Scouts.

When we wanted instruction, we hired personal one on one instructors to teach the finer aspects of the game to our son.

If you conflate instruction with exposure, you will be disappointed.