Dirtbags Baseball

True showcase teams often have large rosters.  Some larger than 17.  Showcase teams will put players in their primary position for a few innings and swap them out with another player.  Same goes for at bats.  Showcase teams are not meant to really focus on developing players and getting them maximum playing time.  They are for showcasing their players.  If that's not what you were expecting, or what you are looking for this summer, you may want to talk to the organization to have your son moved to another roster or another team all together.  Of those 17, how many are pitchers only?

For what it's worth, my sons showcase team has 18 players.  They play 9 inning games and will play all summer at various locations.  Every player will see the field and get a couple of at bats each game.  It's up to the players to perform with the few innings they get.  Others on the bench deserve their time on the field, in front of scouts too.

Last but not least.  You are from Chicago and posting in there North Carolina forum.  So if your goal is to bash a Chicago organization, it probably isn't getting a whole lot of tracktion here.

IMO 2k is solid in the middle of the road, it depends somewhat on amount of practice time and if that is included with the cost.

 

Is 17 on a roster to many? I think it depends how many pitcher only kids they have.

 

you may or may not be in a bad spot, i agree you should have asked some questions before you agreed to play but it is not always black and white.

Senior summer my sons travel showcase team had 28 on roster.  Everyone played and most everyone got some type of college scholarship. That was 10 years ago, and the cost was 2500-3000 BACK THEN.  

Not really sure what your problem is.

James - Responded to your PM...

 

I didn't see this before, but $2K is about right for HS travel ball around here.  Did that include uni"s?  Our fees were very similar.  Just a little less and that included indoor practice facilities and cages in the winter, fall baseball, some instruction and uni's (3 shirts, 2 pants per kid).  We also spend an addition $200 or so for a private showcase at the end of the seasons, and a couple hundred for a camp but those are optional expenses.  

$2000 is, from my experience, standard as to what a good showcase team costs. Considering that most quality tournaments range from $850-$1500 that fee is not that far out of whack. Also, there is a difference between a travel team and a showcase team. Travel teams generally start after little league and play local events that cost less to register for. They try to play kids equally and are more winning oriented. Showcase teams typically are for for 16U-17U that are supposed to play at higher level tourneys in front of scouts, college coaches. Kids playing time depends on what kids the scouts are there to see. Of course these days more and more 13-17 yr old teams label themselves "showcase" but are really just travel teams and there in lie the problem. Parents just need to educate themselves and do more research as to what they are getting themselves into. Just bc a team labels themselves "elite" or "showcase" doesn't mean that they are. And just bc your kid was a stud in little league and had some success at 13 doesn't mean that parents should blindly spend $ on an elite/showcase team.

Originally Posted by TPM:

TPM,

Its been a long while since I have visited this forum, since June 2013 I believe. I returned today just to unsubscribe because I am still receiving emails from this forum when someone posts a comment to this thread. However, I did scan through the comments just out of curiosity. I don't believe I saw your response to my last post back in 2013 or I would have seen my response back to you. I included your response to refresh your memory.

 

Even though its been 2 years, I feel strong enough to make one last comment about the subject of this thread, but more specifically, to your remarks to me back in June 2013. You made a lot of assumptions about me in your posts that I unfortunately feel the need to rectify. I hate this about me, but I care what people think of me, whether its over the internet or in person. My posts back in June 2013 were not "sour grapes" as you commented. Its crazy, but people always think when someone posts something different from what they think, they are "sour grapes". Myself and most of the others that posted their negative experiences with travel ball teams were doing just that, posting our negative experiences. And another crazy thing, people that have not had negative experience with travel ball teams think those that have is because their sons suck at baseball. Even though you stated you were "not here to argue", you were here to ridicule. Your remarks were very condescending.

 

You insinuated that I was not familiar with some of the more important venues in college recruiting and scouting because I could not name the PG Wood Bat Tournament. Well, at what point are we all suppose to know these things? Maybe we were not at that point yet. See, here lies the problem. Not everyone wants or cares if their son is ever recruited to play college ball. Not everyone thinks their son is going to be the next best thing in baseball. Speaking for myself, I was simply posting about my family's negative experience with a travel/showcase team. And I do not think negatively of PGStaff, I do not believe PG is involved in this scam.

 

Now on to your schooling of me regarding the cost of tournaments. I am well aware of the costs of tournaments. As I stated in earlier posts, my husband created, managed, and coached a travel ball team for 5 years. We know what it costs to hold tournaments as well as we have organized and managed multiple tournaments. I actually grew up working tournaments as my father was always sponsoring all kinds of tournaments including semi-pro baseball tournaments. He loved baseball but was not very athletic so he got his fix by providing the funds for others to play. The only reason we got involved with a travel ball team was because my husband could no longer dedicate the time necessary to coach and manage a team. And just so you know, we have played tournaments at all times and in many undesirable conditions. We've played in sleet and 100 degree heat. And, while playing in a tournament held at ASU, we played in the early morning mountain fog. And yes, we have played into the early morning hours due to rain delays and because of extra inning games. These games are my best memories of playing baseball. Again, you are missing the point. And to school you a little bit since your son must not have ever been on the "D" team, when playing for these teams that exist only to provide funding for their A team, when it rains, the teams don't always play in the rain because they are usually cancelled, not worth the cost of umpires I guess. That causes most to want their money back. Your condescending remarks about times not being suitable for me provides no substance to this thread's purpose.

 

I am well aware that colleges hold camps to help fund their programs. I'm all for that. College baseball does not get the same level of funding as basketball and football. Maybe its different where you are, but colleges also have "elite" camps, several names are used, and they use these camps for recruiting. They actually invite players. Why are you asking what results I got? Are you wanting to hear that they told my son he was not D1 material?

 

Again you want to portray me as someone who does not know baseball because I could not remember Josh Hamilton's last name and by stating that "everyone who knows and follows baseball knows who Josh Hamilton is". I "follow" professional baseball through which ever team I am interested in. As I've said, my dad was a huge baseball fan. I watched many Atlanta Braves games with my dad. We made many trips to Atlanta to see them play throughout the 1980s. He passed away in 1993 after battling cancer for a few years. While pursuing my career and tending to children, I no longer had time to watch professional baseball or read tabloids while sitting around the pool, which is how some people know who Josh Hamilton is. In the last 10 years, I spent more time listening to my husband teach kids how to keep their bat in the strike zone longer, when to get that secondary lead off 1st base, and learning how to read a pitcher because some will forecast the type of pitch they are about to throw. But maybe that's not "following" baseball. 

 

You again make this thread personal by saying things like if I don't get the results I want I demand my money back. Again, you're making the worst kind of assumptions about someone and something you do not know anything about. This kind of thing happens when you make a debate personal. My son did not play for the dirtbags nor did he ever tryout for them. We were ripped off by a different showcase team. Only one team ripped us off since you are counting. Wanting my money back had nothing to do with not getting the results I wanted. We were lied to plain and simple. There was no contract or fine print to read. We had no aspirations for our son to be recruited by playing with this team. Our son was just a rising 9th grader. We put our son on this team because my husband could no longer coach a team. Our son did not tryout for this team either. He was approached by the team's owner at one of the last tournaments my husband coached. Lets just say we were told our son would get plenty of playing time at multiple positions. That's all we were looking for. We were told many lies as were other parents. I asked for my money back before the first game the team played was over.

 

We didn't need to attend a PG showcase to get an honest evaluation of our son. Our son was getting lessons from a sometimes Triple A/sometimes MLB player during his off seasons. We just wanted our son to play ball and to play with and against competitive ball players. You can't always get that in the local little league.

 

You seemed to be focused on my lack of knowledge of the recruiting process, or your perception that I lacked knowledge. I agree this site has some very knowledgeable people and who know how to debate an issue without personal insults. You keep insinuating that we needed someone to tell us that our son was not D1 material so that we would not spend money on showcase teams. You ASSUME that since I said we were ripped off by a showcase team, that our son was not as good as we wanted or thought him to be. We simply wanted our son to perform at his potential, not just at baseball, put anything and everything he involved himself with, especially academics. We are not the parents you are thinking we are. And if I needed help with recruiting, we had what we needed.

 

Trust me, even my pea brain knows you can be recruited to play for a team outside your home state or your home state NCAA league. I think pretty much everyone knows that.

 

OK so what happened with my son? Drum role please...... He went on to play for a showcase team in Va during his sophomore and Junior year of high school. Its coach was an assistant coach at a private D3 school. We paid $650 which included 2 complete uniforms. It also included great coaching and mentoring!!!! The team was capped off at 15 players with mostly pitchers sitting on the bench. My son was 10th (academically) in a class of over 500. He was bound for engineering of some sort. He was a 4 year starter (only freshmen to make Varsity) during his high school BB career. He was miserable that year because he was not with his buddies on JV. See, our son did not eat, sleep, and sh*t ball. He loved baseball but mainly because he loves the sport and because he loved playing with his friends who had all been together since elementary grades. We were approached by a coach from a small D1 school during a showcase tournament. Bottom line, our son could have played D3 or possible D2 ball. He could have gone to a JC just so he could continue to play BB. But that is not what he wanted. He is attending an out of state school that has one of the top engineering programs in the country. He left his baseball shoes on his high school BB field and never looked back. He is just happy that he still gets together with those same friends when they all come home for summers and holidays.

 

Now, that is what we as parents were looking for, for our son. Yes, we complained about anything that was not on the up and up or things that kept our son from achieving his potential. You just have to get over the fact that not all kids playing baseball actually want to be a MLB player. As I said, we know a MLB player and it isn't always fun. And don't assume that someone on this post that complains about a travel ball team has a son that isn't all that good of a ball player. And for the rest of the folks on this thread, there are travel ball team owners out there that will put a "spin" on what they are offering. There is no fine print, only a mom and/or dad taking a man for his word.

 

Congrats on your son playing "professional baseball". If that is what your son wanted then he succeeded. My son isn't playing professional ball, but I consider him to be just as successful as your son.

 

Take Care!

 

There's life after baseball!

 

 

 

There's no such thing as an excessive price for travel ball. It's part of the free market system. The cost is what the market is willing to bear. What you charged when you ran a team is irrelevant. I ran 13u, 14u and 16u (for fifteen year olds) teams for $500 for ten tournaments. 

 

A fifteen year year doesn't need to showcase unless he's on the verge of becoming one of the jaw dropping, top shelf, 1% studs. If your son is a D1 prospect chances are teams will be coming to him. My son played on a subsidized showcase team and a free scout team.

 

The problem is you may not have a business plan. You're helping spaghetti off the wall to see what sticks. Make a plan. It may be hard for a 15yo. You may have to wait a year To properly evaluate his college potential. 

 

Go watch college games at each level in person. Make an honest assessment of your son. Make a list of colleges conferences he could compete (not the ones you dream about). From those conferences decide which schools are an academic, social and cultural fit. Write to the coaches. Ask how to get in front of them. Then create a plan that includes the right showcases and team.

 

Large rosters on showcase teams is normal. By then some players are pitchers only. My son's team had either regulars and four part time pitchers for longer tournaments.

RJM, I am sick and tired of your condescending remarks like, "you have no business plan", bla bla bla. Bottom line is that these "so-called" showcase teams are nothing more than glorified travel teams, period. I don't think it is worth the $$ if you don't play enough EVEN though I know my son is as good as the rest of them. IT IS POLITICS PURE AND SIMPLE. Go ahead defend your travel scam buddies all you want, but I am here to yell at top of my lungs. RUN RUN RUN FROM THESE SO-CALLED SHOWCASE TEAMS. This is my last year doing this, no matter how well my son does on this team. The lady who just posted the long post is right, $650 is what the cost should be more like, not $2000. And by the way, I found 2 other showcase teams at $1500 with a smaller roster (11-14). But it is too late, I got scammed into this one thanks to RJM and his TRAVEL SCAM buddies.

James ... Get mad at whomever you wish. It's obvious you don't have a plan. It's obvious you have very little knowledge of the travel world. You only have a bad experience to lean on due to your ignorance. 

 

First off, do you even know what is a showcase team? 15u teams are not showcase teams. College scouts aren't looking at 15u games. A 15yo that is talented enough to be scouted by a college is likely on a nationally known 16u team or a 17/18u showcase team.

 

i really don't get the part about my travel,scam buddies. I ran a team from 13u to 16u (for 15yos). All four coaches played college ball. Two played pro. Between the four of us we had a pitching coach, catching coach, infield coach and outfield coach. The focus was to prepare talented players for high school who had a desire to eventually play college ball. The cost per player was $500 for the summer. We played in ten tournaments and practiced a couple of times per week. I ended up losing money. I paid about $500 out of pocket for extras. 

 

When end these kids were all sixteen they were varsity high school players as sophs. They were all invited to play for 17/18u showcase teams that varied in price. My son's was partially subsidized. The scout team he played for was free. If your son has talent he teams will come to him.

 

My daughter played showcase softball (18u Gold) starting at fifteen. Before that she played for their 16u and 14u teams. It was a subsidized program. They came to her for her talent.

 

Many people have stated in this thread 2k is not unreasonable for a showcase team. Do you understand how much it costs to get a team to East Cobb and stay for a week? You might be better served if you come here to learn rather than rip travel baseball due to your ignorance. Ignorance isn't bad. It just means you haven't learned. Stupid is bad. That's an inability to learn. Of course there's also stubbornness. That's the refusal to listen and learn from those with experience.

 

However you go about the process, good luck. You may need it.

RJM you have made my point. You charged only $500, this team charged $2000. See a bit of difference here?? I agree, this 15U team is NOT a showcase team, which I've already stated. But they market themselves as one. That is part of their SCAM which you seem to have no problem with, but many parents on this site do. My goal is to WARN parents away from them. By the way, the tournaments we play in cost the team $500-850/each, NOT $1500 as some suggested. So believe me they are pocketing big cash and NOT helping to develop players. Yes, if my son gets better at 16 and 17 then I'll start going to showcases at Colleges where multiple College Coaches attend.

 

Please stop with your condescending comments on my so-called ignorance. It shows what type of person you are.

 

Gosh darn-it! I hate I let myself get involved in this debate again! But I can't stand it when people insult my intelligence. As for what these travel/showcase team owners are charging, lets take what I know for sure, which is the team (not the DB) that ripped me off. They charged $1300 for what they called summer ball. They charged $750 for Fall Ball. So basically, they were charging $2050 a year. That included 2 pants and 2 jerseys. We had to purchase the 2 caps, socks, and belts. The team my son was on had approx. 17 players. This particular travel ball organization started with 2 teams, a 15U & 16U. We started in the Fall so paid $750. We played mostly Impact tournaments which in 2013 were between $650 and $800 per team. We played maybe 6 tournaments between August & November. Parents paid all other expenses such as hotel fees. This organization did not host any tournaments. Do the math, 2 teams with approx. 17 players each, I'll use $800 for tournament fees for both teams (34 players @ $750 per player = $25,500 minus the cost of 6 tournaments x 2 teams @ $800 = $9600, so the team owner is left with $15,900 for 4 months.

 

The summer season rolls around. The organization now has 4 teams, two teams for 2 age groups (2 A teams & 2 B teams). If your son is asked to come back and play the summer season, you get to pay $1300 for roughly 10 to 12 tournaments between end of March to July. No uniform is included if you played the Fall season. Its my understanding new players had to pay more because of uniform costs, but I never confirmed that. The number of players per team increased as well. Didn't know it until the first game. I don't know what was charged the other teams. I can only assume 2 of the 4 teams were charged approx. $1300, at least that is what my son and several other on the team were charged. So, the 2 B teams brought in roughly $46,800. Tournament fees at $800 = $19,200. So, this put roughly $27,600 in the owner's pocket for 5 months. This does not include what the 2 A teams were charged, if charged anything.

 

The Fall season was OK acceptable. But the owner got greedy and had to lie to hide what he was doing. He deceived many parents. I talked to the owner in between the Fall and Summer seasons. It was about a 45 minute conversation in January before I wrote that $1300 check. I got all the reassurances I needed. About 4 practices were held and 2 work out sessions. Yeah I saw a new face or two during this time, but I let it go. Show up for first tournament and WTH?!?! There were 20 players there and dressed in uniform. The number of MIF doubled from the last practice to first tournament. And the owner was a no-show. Only his coaches were there. The number of players was not the only issue either.

 

As for the DBs, I know a considerable amount about them because I have a friend whose son played on the A team, the FOUNDER OF THE DBs team. I also have a friend with a son who was on one of the C teams of the DBs. My son's team played against the gold and black DBs, but never the A team. See, my friend whose son was the A player was flown to Florida to play in tournaments while my friend's C player was at some high school field in the middle of no where. The A player ended up at a D1 school. The A player had to pay a fee but I never got a definite amount, but I did get a definite grin when I asked. But the air fare was free. The C player was charged the $1875 fee.

 

Everything was fine before these B & C teams and younger age teams were started. Any yes, they are classifying these teams as "showcase". It needs to go back like it was. These high priced showcase organizations should only have recruitable-aged teams, a 16 & 17 age team. The younger ages should play "travel" ball (AAU or USSSA or whatever they may be called now). If a kid tries out for the DB 16 or 17 age group team and isn't D1 material (in their staff's opinion), then he doesn't make the team and therefore, does not get ripped off.

 

There is blame to be placed on these showcase team owners, its not all on us ignorant parents. Ask questions you tell us. If we were given truthful responses, then this thread would not exist because no parent would pay $2000 if they knew what they found out at the first game.

 

Parents need to know that their kid can be recruited without being on a "showcase" team. Find a cheap travel ball team that plays a lot of tournaments to get more playing time. And these college coaches need to know that the next big thing in college BB may never be found because his parents don't have the means for their son to play on a showcase team. What was that movie where a recruiter traveled to these one horse towns and found a great pitcher????  That's what BB is all about. Why are so many trying to ruin it?

 

 

 

you can't fix fix stupid just seems to jump to mind...JamesB enjoy the legion season next summer and everyone will be happy!

+100

Same goes for wantoknow. 

Folks, travel baseball is expensive at at any level. If its not for your son or doesnt fit your pocketbook, find sometning else to do. Do yourhomework and dont always assume...thats on you. When we signed up son for a travel team that was very expensive, I talked to parents and in turn parents asked us for advice years later.

James, let me explain one last thing you don't seem to understand. When I ran a travel team seven to nine years ago I wasn't in it for the money. But if a program is a business they are. $2,000 for a travel team that is a business is very reasonable. Your paying for professional coaches and professional facilities plus the profit margin. The kids who played for us where fortunate we had quality coaching skills without being professionals. But when it came time to showcase I cut the kids loose. Showcase teams are about exposure and contacts, not coaching.

Want ... The next big thing will always be found. if he doesn't have money chances are he's playing free for a high level showcase team. It's everyone below the next big things who need to showcase unless they want to play for the local college (assuming they have the ability). My son was all conference, all county and all metro. He was listed from his soph year on as a college prospect to watch. I classified him as one in a group of about 500-1000 talent wise. Showcasing created some separation.

 

What two of you consider condescension from posters is an attempt to provide education. Many people have come here with open minds and benefitted. No one here is defending all travel programs. But there are many good ones. If you decide the world is one way based on one experience your sons lose out.

My point is this. I think 15yr. old HS Freshman shouldn't be playing for a showcase team most of the time. They are simply too young for College coaches to even care about. You can always market yourself. You don't need a "showcase team" in my opinion at all at this age. This is what I've concluded. My problem is the whole marketing of it by these high priced programs. It is not worth it if there are 17+ players because you simply cannot get enough playing time. I have coached baseball since for the last 7+ years. I coached a 13U and 14U team. I coached a High School team this past spring. I had some 17 and 18yr olds on my HS team that SHOULD showcase their talent because they are just that good. But you don't need a high priced showcase team to do it. Just get a skillshow video, it is then online, attend a few College showcases, PBR, etc. call College coaches, email them, bug them until they see your video or you personally in action. That is what I have concluded is the ideal way for them to see you. Maybe the College coaches go to a few 17 or 18U showcase/travel games, but even if they do, what do they see, 1 or 2 at-bats, 1 or 2 innings in the field and the ball may or may not be hit to the player. I don't see how that can help the player. I'd rather pay for a private evaluation by a College coach or bunch of coaches, such as at these 1-2 day showcases. That is my point.

Get your playing time where you can get it, Legion or Park or HS summer baseball.

jamesb - best of luck to you and your son.  Sounds like the showcase thing wasn't what you were looking for nor what you desire.  Sounds like you have a pretty good plan in place in order to move forward and that's what I would recommend at this point.. .move forward.  So if you coached 13u, 14u, and recently HS baseball this last spring, maybe you should start a 15u team.  You would probably enjoy it.  Your son might not, but it sounds like you would. 

I guess its everyones own money and they can spend or make it anyway that suits them. None of my business.

 

But this whole For Profit business model of travel baseball has become a haven for dream sellers and scammers and marketers to take large sums of money from hopeful parents. Its become a business model that preys on the emotions, dreams, egos, must-haves, must-dos, or fear of risking your player falling behind of highly marketed similar player.

 

I personally find it a disgusting turnoff to the whole process. I personally have disdain for these For Profit promoters who have inserted themselves between high school and college as the "Baseball Gatekeepers".

 

Where is the honesty? Where is the integrity? And flipside where is the objectiveness of the parents? Which make the question turn back full circle to what was the unwary parent "sold" and what were they led to "believe".

 

These B, C, D, Silver, EliteOrange, etc teams have some players on them that have a hard time playing in high school. Why are "top nationally recognized" showcase teams taking their money? Obviously these professionals know the player running a 7.9 60dash, throwing 72 across the field, and batting .120 with no power and long swing is not going to make it. Why continue to sell the dream other than pure profit based on what you can lead someone to believe? Does it make it OK that you have a willing paying customer to knowingly deceive them to keep their dream alive and money flowing until the bitter end?

InterestedObserver,

 

I mean this in a very positive way, but what country do you live in? I live where people can make an informed decision on what they buy and when, and it is up to the purchaser to decide if they want or don't want a product. Are these coaches running these teams supposed to do this for your kids enjoyment? Using your logic PG would be in that category, but they have probably done more for college baseball recruiting than any other organization in the US and yes they are a for profit organization, good for them.

 

There are good teams and probably bad teams and coaches and the beauty of this site is to give parents and players information to make informed decisions. If the parents are so stupid (or willing) to spend lots of $$ on players who will likely never have a chance to play college baseball I say caveat emptor. 

The problem here is on one hand we are discussing the difference from one team to the next and on the other hand travel teams are being bunched together.  I have never seen this thing called showcase teams.  Not sure what that is?   I do know that the majority of the best and most scouted teams play in our tournaments.  We don't consider them showcase teams, they are just teams.  

 

The math used in the posts above is incomplete.  Does anyone really believe the only cost a team has is tournament entry fees?  Are coaches expected to work for nothing and pay their own travel expenses.  What about equipment and baseballs and insurance?

 

Without mentioning any specific program here is how some operate.  Some people know this and some don't.  The very best players/pitchers are being recruited, even at a young age by the top travel teams.  If one of these talented kids can't afford to pay, there are numerous teams that will pick him up.  

 

Is that fair?  Depends on what you're looking for.  That one player could be responsible for his teammates getting seen by a ton of recruiters and scouts.  So that one player adds a lot of value to everyone.  Could be that 15 players end up paying a little extra to cover for one player.  Bills still have to be paid!

 

i realize that this is a bit off the topic, but don't think for a minute that baseball is only for rich kids.  The only advantage that rich kids have is those that have no talent can still pay to play.  All kids that have enough talent, rich, poor, or in between, will be recruited by someone, long before they get involved in college recruiting.  Some will have no problem paying the team fee and for them it is money well spent.  Others simply can't pay the team fee, but if they are talented enough, there are many teams that will cover them. And it's actually a benefit to everyone on that team.

 

One reason that we got involved in holding tournaments was it was a way for us to help talented kids that didn't have the resources to get the exposure they deserved.  The NCAA rules make it very difficult to help these kids.  Give them a pair of shoes, buy them a meal, give them a ride, etc., all violate NCAA rules.  However, teams can operate under these rules without worrying about violating rules.  So these days when we know of a very talented young kid who can't afford to travel or get the exposure he needs, we can do something to help.  We have the highest level of travel teams from coast to coast playing in our events.  These teams are the most scouted and produce the most draft picks and DI players.  These teams truly care about results because those results are their life blood.  Sure they are a business, but their business depends on the results.  They often pick up extra talented kids and they want those kids to benefit, because in the end it helps everyone.  So if we know of a kid that has the talent but lacks the resources, we simply contact the teams and almost always there is someone out there that will help.

 

I do understand that this is different from the original discussion.  However, there were some comments made that I wanted to address. Mostly that if we are talking about college recruiting or professional baseball, those opportunities aren't worse these days, they are much better for kids with or without money.  Some people just don't want to believe that for some reason.  But each year when there are nearly a thousand scouts, college coaches, and agents at a tournament, no one is talking about the players wealth or poverty. It is all about talent!

 

All the above said, I know there are travel teams out there that are in it for just the money.  We all know there are people out there who will lie or cheat.  

I'm missing something in these responses.  The OP continues to assert that he was told one thing about games, comepetition, ... and not only was that not true, it appears that even the instuction promised was substandard.  Another assertion was that these teams where parents were mislead are funding the teams where players/parents are receiving what was promised.  This has noting to do with parents thinking that their son was better than what he was.  I've heard the same from some programs in my area.  I don't know the "truth" in this situation but can any of you assert that his practice is not happening all across this country?

PG has brought up a good point about coaches being paid.  I know that my son will be coaching a team in Atlanta this weekend.  His expenses are covered and he is also obligated to work practices and give pitching lessons for free plus chaperone . Its nice money but for all he has to do I say not enough, but the experience is worth what he could be making.  That could be the same said for the players.  If you cannot find that your players cannot learn anything from the experience, dont sign them up.  

Young HS players do not need to showcase themselves, but if the parent feels they want them to have experience before it counts, than thats their perogative.

 

Do parents think that the coaching staff and everything else comes for free?

 

As far as 17 kids on a roster,most likely less would mean you pay more money.

 

Parents, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Make sure you understand what you are paying for.

 

Why are there only a few who complain about these "scams"?

 

Maybe those in this topic with complaints should do some exploring of past topics. No one has ever said that expensive travel "showcase" teams are for everyone.

Sounds like the Dirtbag organization is living up to its name.  lol

So you are coming to that conclusion because a few people felt it wasnt for them?  Or are you just trying to be funny..again?

Another classless post!

Dirtbag alumni

 

http://thedirtbags.com/index.php/alumni

 

Don't wear your finger out scrolling to the bottom.

How do you know it was a few?  I'd suggest that in any program where you are told one thing and given another that more than one or two are disgruntled.  It is entirely possible that others have decided not to voice their concerns and/or are not members of HSBBW.  Without saying to much more, I know more than a few in my area that believe that they were mislead with the programs that their sons participate in.  Of course everyone can deny that and I won't name names so ... 

 

BTW, this trend is no different in softball.  These "academy teams" are notorious for some of this. 

RJM,

They'll probably tell you that you made this up.

What people fail to realize is that top travel teams are like minor league teams.  Everyone is good but the majority make up the team for the top prospects.  And you do need reserves.  Funny thing is I know of lots of kids who got great opportunities because of who they were playing with on the team.  But as we are reading, everyone wants their kid on a team and to start every game.  That doesnt happen in HS, college or in the pros.

And enough of this, "I have a friend whose son played on a team so I know this to be true".  Thats baloney.

Really coach?  Are organizations out to screw everyone or do parents only see what they want to see?
It is a persons responsibility to do their due diligence.  All types of programs over recruit to find the best talent to win.  Sports have become competitive.  Some folks dont get that.  Yes, its income and yes people get greedy..all of the time!
I am not in favor of organizations not being 100% accurate, but does this allow lionbaseball to post what he did, or a parent whose son never played in the organization call them out because they "heard" this is what happened.
Lots of sour grapes.
FWIW, I never signed son up on a team for instruction, but rather to provide an opportunity to play.  And because he pitched, that was only every 5th or 6th game and we paid the same as the folks whose sons were everyday starters.  I guess if I wanted to that might be a valid complaint?
These folks need to stick with no fee baseball teams...because nothing will ever make them happy for spending money they probably should save for college.

TPM, you mention "due diligence" often in this thread.  What are parents to do?  They attend an organizational meeting, go to a tryout, are told certain things and you suggest that they are the ones at fault for being lied to.  You suggest that they are the ones who are at fault for trusting the people running the organization to which they paid a couple of thousand dollars to, and, according to this OP, to play the same teams over and over and not in real events seen by college coaches. You go further to suggest that these are parents of kids who have no talent and so, they should stick to local baseball.  How do you know the talent level of these kids? 

 

OK so you say this doesn't happen.  Go on and believe that.  However, I know it does happen, have coached kids who had it happen to and so, I'll go ahead and tell the truth as I know it.  The kids I know had talent and did go on to play in college.  I've seen it in both baseball and softball.

 

I'll go ahead and weigh out on this.. Believe what you want to believe. 

 

Darrell

My son played for me through age fifteen. Then I looked at the 17/18u teams recruiting my son. I talked to parents whose sons had played in the organization. I looked at the team history. I looked at whose in charge and considered what kinds of contacts they would have. I looked at their alumni lists. In one case I saw something strange on the alumni list of one team. I saw several players who were not from the area. Two of them happened to be Vanderbilt players where I had played with their dads in Legion or college summer ball. The dads told me the organization snagged their kids and the Uptons for one major tournament. They threw their own paying  players under the bus for that tournament. That's not what I was looking for In a team. I ruled them out.

 

With my daughter she came up through an organization from 12u to 18u that came highly recommended. They couldn't be all that bad. They hired me to be the hitting coach. I was paid a lot of smiles, high fives, thanks plus travel expenses.

Does it really count if a player played with four other organizations that developed him prior to a brief stint in Florida with a Dirtbag team? I mean you know the list is nice, but its just a list. What is the story behind the list?

 

And all those commitments? Looks great. What is a certain college gonna do with the 74 commits they have listed for the next 3 years. A college that the Dirtbags for example place kids at. I mean I guess a local Babe Ruth team could say they have another 10 committed to that college. It would all mean about the same. The player is committed, the college not so much.

 

Got a list on National Letters for players who played Dirtbags for more than 6 tournaments or events? That might tell a better story......................

Have no issue with travel teams but have seen these type of lists get very creative...I have seen my son's name on lists when all he ever did was take a few lessons as a 12 year old but he shows up on their alumni list.....which is not a lie but I do think you need to take a some caution with some of these lists...I have seen a local high school coach that is not a big fan of travel teams and a strong supporter of legion ball do the same thing with his legion team. He touts that kids do not need to play travel that they should play travel and they can still get exposure to colleges. The problem is that the players he touts as examples of his theory all played for travels teams and if you talk to those players and parents you find out that the travel teams are the teams that got them the exposure not the legion team. So my only point is the "lists" can take on a life of their own.

Darrell, 

 

You silly goose.  This thread would go a lot easier for you if you just assume TPM is right about everything.  

Having been around the travel baseball game for several years now I can tell you the "dirtbags" have a pretty good reputation, they have multiple teams at every age group, the rosters and schedules are posted on the web site...I would find it hard to believe that a parent had no idea of what they were getting into and if they didn't it is probably on them because it really isn't hard to find out.

FWIW,

 

I scanned the list of DirtBag alumni.  Just checking the drafted players I can assure people that most all of them played full time for the DirtBags.  That includes most all he first round picks and MLB players.

 

I have no idea how the program works for younger or less talented kids.  I can say that the highest level DirtBag teams would be a top 10 National program in most years. In fact, they have won many highest level tournaments including the WWBA World Championship in Jupiter.  And that team is usually the same team they play with all summer.

 

Knowing that they want the best possible program and they have a track record of choosing the right players, maybe the lower programs are some type of feeder system.  I would think they have proven to be good at evaluating players.  Just like everywhere if the player shows ability or improvement, he moves up the ladder. BTW, this approach is used by some of the top programs in the country.  It's not just a DirtBag thing.

 

Once again, I honestly don't know about all these other teams.  I really only know about their top teams. And they are about as good as it gets.

The mistake I saw made in our area is parents thinking their kids would automatically pass through thr system from 13u to 17/18u and play college ball. When my son played 13u to 16u almost all of the better teams were created by dads who played and knew the game. Other than Arsenal the academy teams from 13u to 16u were loaded up with mediocre players. Very few of them "graduated" to 17/18u. The academies recruited legitimate college prospects for the showcase level teams. Fillsfan (if I have the name right) told me even on Arsenal only four kids from the dominant 13u team his son played were around and made the 17/18u team.

 

In between games at an ECTB/USSSA tournament I was watching a bit of a 10u game. The dads were all intense. The circle I talked with told me their kids are going to play D1 college ball because they're playing for 10u Arsenal. They were paying $3,600 per year for instruction plus team fees for a delusion.

 

i don't believe travel baseball organizations lie to parents. I believe they paint a rosy picture the parents buy hook, line and sinker because they want to believe it. And the parents are inexperienced and uninformed.

Note to PG: In our area a 17/18u team that gets players in front of colleges coaches and scouts in prominent tournaments are typically referred to as showcase teams.

Parents with kids with better talent very often DO NOT complain.  They may feel slighted for somethings, but most realize that the cream always rises to the top.

Dont think for one moment that there are not people here that feel their kids have gotten the short end of the stick, but they understand a lot more how it works than the few who come here to complain.

 

A shout out to Batty67, who deleted his comments to me, tell me why I or anyone else needs to listen to second hand info that occurred years ago?  

When a parent puts up numbers of how much a promoter has made, without knowing how much they put out, it makes me wonder what the real issue is.