This thread is starting to give me the creeps. I get the feeling that in a post-apocalyptic future, when only robots play baseball because the air is so toxic that the remaining humans are forced to live underground, and a guy who looks very much like Tom Cruise leads a doomed but courageous band of rebels against the corrupt oddsmakers who have rigged the betting on Robot Baseball to favor the leaders of the oligarchy, and the internet as we know it has long been banned, even then furtive members of the super-secret Al Gore Society, using cobbled together Commodor Vic 20's, will surreptitiously revive HSBASBALLWEB to discuss the Dirtbags and some long-dead parent's beef about playing time, cost, or whatever.
Lol
Originally Posted by old_school:
Originally Posted by CoachB25:
I'm missing something in these responses. The OP continues to assert that he was told one thing about games, comepetition, ... and not only was that not true, it appears that even the instuction promised was substandard. Another assertion was that these teams where parents were mislead are funding the teams where players/parents are receiving what was promised. This has noting to do with parents thinking that their son was better than what he was. I've heard the same from some programs in my area. I don't know the "truth" in this situation but can any of you assert that his practice is not happening all across this country?
Having been around the travel baseball game for several years now I can tell you the "dirtbags" have a pretty good reputation, they have multiple teams at every age group, the rosters and schedules are posted on the web site...I would find it hard to believe that a parent had no idea of what they were getting into and if they didn't it is probably on them because it really isn't hard to find out.
This thread was started back in 2013. That spring\summer the Dirtbags had at least 6-8 teams that they called their "scout" teams. These teams did not play in any "Showcase" tournaments. They played all summer but only played against the other scout teams. The parents of kids on these teams paid the same fees as the kids on the "Showcase" teams. The thing is, no one ever bothered to tell the parents that their son was slotted to be on a scout team until after the fees were paid and the season was about to start. With that said, the 4th post on this thread from Polkey, and the post a little latter from baseballmom2 are dead on accurate. Go back and read those posts and as hard as it may seem to believe, they are true.
Honestly, the kids that were placed on a scout team probably didn't have the talent to start on most JV teams and they absolutely lacked the talent to make a varsity team. But, they were strung along and made to believe that they made a real team and this is where the issues came from.
But even with all of that, the Dirtbag organization hasn't missed a beat as they now have 14 15-17U teams. Their main "All Blacks" team is loaded with very, very talented players and their "B" teams are pretty good too.
Why would the parent of a JV level caliber player believe their kid made some elite team? Of course it starts with the high school coach is a moron. 
Maybe it's the parents who are morons.
You don't feel bad when you die. Only the people around you are hurt. The same is true with stupid.
Originally Posted by RJM:
Why would the parent of a JV level caliber player believe their kid made some elite team? Of course it starts with the high school coach is a moron. Maybe it's the parents who are morons.
You don't feel bad when you die. Only the people around you are hurt. The same is true with stupid.
There are plenty of delusional parents that will be suckered in to big promises such as the purported dirtbag organization using these kids to fund the true showcase teams. In the end the integrity should fall on the organization that should know better.
There was some complaints by parents of the local jr American legion team that their funds were being used to fund the Sr. American legion team's weekend trips out of town. Personally I didn't care because all I had to pay for my son to be on the Jr. Amercian Legion team was $350 for the summer which is extremely inexpensive.
I agree with RJM.
I also believe that they create teams for players who will most likely never make a varsity team but need a place to play to possibly better. This may be misleading and wrong but claiming fraud is pretty bad.
I also believe that they create teams for players who will most likely never make a varsity team but need a place to play to possibly better. This may be misleading and wrong but claiming fraud is pretty bad.
A year after sons travel coach retired from the 18U South Florida Pokers and turned it over to someone else, parents continued to pay the same high fees but this guy spent much of it before the summer ended. He claimed that he never charged enough money.
This resulted in players arriving in towns with no place to stay or some fees for tournaments not paid.
Now thats fraud and he was ordered to pay back money or go to jail.
Anyone have a worse story?
This resulted in players arriving in towns with no place to stay or some fees for tournaments not paid.
Now thats fraud and he was ordered to pay back money or go to jail.
Anyone have a worse story?
Originally Posted by TPM:
A year after sons travel coach retired from the 18U South Florida Pokers and turned it over to someone else, parents continued to pay the same high fees but this guy spent much of it before the summer ended. He claimed that he never charged enough money.
This resulted in players arriving in towns with no place to stay or some fees for tournaments not paid.
Now thats fraud and he was ordered to pay back money or go to jail.
Anyone have a worse story?
This resulted in players arriving in towns with no place to stay or some fees for tournaments not paid.
Now thats fraud and he was ordered to pay back money or go to jail.
Anyone have a worse story?
Yes. Disappeared 12u Cooperstown funds.
Originally Posted by InterestedObservor:
I guess its everyones own money and they can spend or make it anyway that suits them. None of my business.
But this whole For Profit business model of travel baseball has become a haven for dream sellers and scammers and marketers to take large sums of money from hopeful parents. Its become a business model that preys on the emotions, dreams, egos, must-haves, must-dos, or fear of risking your player falling behind of highly marketed similar player.
I personally find it a disgusting turnoff to the whole process. I personally have disdain for these For Profit promoters who have inserted themselves between high school and college as the "Baseball Gatekeepers".
Where is the honesty? Where is the integrity? And flipside where is the objectiveness of the parents? Which make the question turn back full circle to what was the unwary parent "sold" and what were they led to "believe".
These B, C, D, Silver, EliteOrange, etc teams have some players on them that have a hard time playing in high school. Why are "top nationally recognized" showcase teams taking their money? Obviously these professionals know the player running a 7.9 60dash, throwing 72 across the field, and batting .120 with no power and long swing is not going to make it. Why continue to sell the dream other than pure profit based on what you can lead someone to believe? Does it make it OK that you have a willing paying customer to knowingly deceive them to keep their dream alive and money flowing until the bitter end?
InterestedObservor,
Well said!
Originally Posted by JCG:
This thread is starting to give me the creeps. I get the feeling that in a post-apocalyptic future, when only robots play baseball because the air is so toxic that the remaining humans are forced to live underground, and a guy who looks very much like Tom Cruise leads a doomed but courageous band of rebels against the corrupt oddsmakers who have rigged the betting on Robot Baseball to favor the leaders of the oligarchy, and the internet as we know it has long been banned, even then furtive members of the super-secret Al Gore Society, using cobbled together Commodor Vic 20's, will surreptitiously revive HSBASBALLWEB to discuss the Dirtbags and some long-dead parent's beef about playing time, cost, or whatever.
LOL!
There's got to be a movie in there somewhere!
The real truth. Be honest with what your eyes see, go to all tryouts and see how you compare. Just because you make every catch and hit good like everyone else doesn't mean that you as good as them. Your parents will make you feel like you are but thats their job, make you feel like your the best, not a bad thing. You will know if you good enough inside or you will know inside and hear yourself say wow I have work to do, these guys are great. There are many ways the scouts, coaches look at players. Their foot work before catching ground ball, their arm slot, how their ball carries, their current weight and height as well as their projected height and weight. There bone structure, can they gain man weight and still run as fast 3 4 10 15 years later. Are they quick not just fast do they know the game and play hard every play even at a tryout, you better dive for at least one. Do they care about the others guys, respect them and do look the coach in the eye when spoken too. Do the follow instructions the first time. Do they carry their own bat bag and have their water bottle before tryout starts. Do they have the will, the love, the heart and the smarts to fail, over and over and still want to playing another day. My opinion is Travel ball is water down to the point that now that some good mid major and d2 college potential players get missed or never seen because their off playing at a high school field and not getting infront of the college scouts or there coaches are not promoting them, so If you are on a travel team and Im being real, be on the main team of a Major team like The Dirtbags, EVO Canes, Orlando Scorpions, Texas Banbedos, East Cobb, etc. Now be real too, this goes back to the tryout when you saw they other players, you have to be good, is some luck involved, must be a top 10 player in the state at your position. Each one of these top travel ball Organizations are in this to make money no doubt, so get over that fact quickly, if you feel like they are not being fair, move on quickly, they don't want you as a player on their main team, your just as a advertisement, walking playing billboard. So move to where you can play, you will see other teams during a tournament that needs a player at your postions and would treat you like gold. May not be the Canes but could be a team the Canes play all the time at the college fields to show off in front of. There are ways to get see. But the truth if your not on one of those main teams your chances go way down as far as the travel curcuit. As far as the main team, these coaches and owners want to put the best product on the field everytime and they listen to scouts, college coaches, high school coaches and they know the best of the best by the time they enter the 10th grade. To be cont..
Some of these programs have such depth in talent, that the quality players can not all fit on one "main team." I know of at least one showcase organization that yes, has a "main team" at the 16u and 17u level that are loaded with not only high D-1 talent but kids who will be drafted out of HS. Because they pull from multiple states their talent pool goes beyond just the 20-25 kids to fill their "main" roster. So they spill over onto their "secondary" teams big time.
Often these "secondary" teams go deeper in major tournaments than the "main" team. So I would really make it a point to say it all depends on what showcase/travel organization you are playing for and how deep their talent pool is and the how large the region is they draw from.
If you play on one of these secondary teams and are solid you will get plenty of exposure. Most college coaches have no reason to watch the 17u main team play as they are usually all committed kids, unless they are checking up on one of their recruits. It's pro scouts who follow those teams. If you are a college coach looking to fill your roster still you will follow the teams that have QUALITY uncommitted players. The 16u main team will have a few kids left uncommitted but the biggest pool of uncommitted kids will be found on the "secondary" teams. AGAIN, THIS WILL BE TRUE AS LONG AS THERE IS A DEPTH OF TALENT IN THE SHOWCASE ORGANIZATION. Each one is different. For some, yes, there is a big drop off after the "main" team is filled.
As for being on the "main " team of an organization, I can only speak to how we, the EvoShield Canes, do it. In 2015, we had over 100 kids sign Division I scholarships.
Obviously, we cannot fit them all on 1 main team. Some kids on our Regional teams have offers from UVA and other top ACC & SEC schools. Additionally, our "second" and "third" teams have not only made the playoff s at WWBA but made very deep runs.
The value of the EvoCanes is not just in the top team but in the exposure you get on our teams, the quality of coaches we have and the relationships we have with colleges. I feel confident putting our "second" and "third" teams up against anyone's top team.
Your correct about the 2nd and 3rd teams in the larger organizations and retract my comments about using the main team as my example.
My son (2015) played 17U in the summer of 2014 with an organization that had 3 teams. They were a #1, #2 and #3 based on talent. They have 47 kids playing college baseball at some level from those 3 teams. Team #1 has 19 D1 commits....Team #2 (son's team) has 10 D1's and Team #3 has 2 D1's. My son's team benefitted a lot from being in the same organization as Team #1...as we played a lot of the same organization as team #1 as we played at all the same events. 10 Team #1 kids committed to D1's before anybody from my son's team...but once it started, my son's team got 10 in a matter of weeks.