DMN Leaderboard Stats

Hillcrest is listed this week -- FM remains absent. Statistical accuracy is impossible to achieve.

Kirk,
Thanks for the kind words about Tant.
By the way, he has gone 0-6 the past 2 games so his average is now back below .500. Also, he is not the only FM player not listed that could be, as they have a number of players having pretty good seasons this year.

I'm not sure why the DMN doesn't have their info as well as that of some of the other schools. For some reason FM players are listed in the Ft. Worth Star Telegram but not the DMN.

I agree with you that coaches should make an effort to get these things reported properly so that the kids can get their time in print. After all, they are high school kids only once.

Concerning PD's comment on statistical accuracy; he is correct on his statement that it is impossible to achieve. Depends on who's keeping the stats, who's reporting the hits and errors, who's deciding to report or not, etc.

Many times the box scores posted on team websites and/or reported are not an acurate reflection of the game or games anyway as errors seem to be forgotten, hits embelished, etc. at times.

Still is nice to see kids that you know and play with and against in the summer listed in the paper though.

I'm pretty sure the reason FM stats aren't listed in the DMN is a northern FM conspiracy involving much disdaining...what do you think OBN?

What do you know? FM leaders are now posted on the DMN. I guess our guys over here can't be consider slackers anymore!

The pony express, from Flower Mound, went to Ft. Worth Star Telegram first and then the DMN.

IMO, why are all you guys (from FM) so concerned about seeing a stat in the DMN? Is this the first time you have ever seen your sons name in the DMN H&U? Sorry to be so blunt but yet again it appears that someone (kirk) is posting your sons name to get further exposure for him. We all know who he is already....did he play varsity last year? (Never ask a question you dont know the answer too)

IMO...parents try to get too involved with their sons career and college coaches see right through it. If you think posting a name or having someones name mentioned by your friend is going to help get a scholarship/drafted you have issues. Let the kid perform on his own and good things will happen if they are good enough.

Not butt kissing here but IMO the BEST/UNBIASED and HONEST replies I have ever read come from the DBAT GM (no we wont switch summer teams)and his knowledge of the game/politics is high. I like your posts and spirit too funneldrill!!

Regarding comments made about

quote:

Many times the box scores posted on team websites and/or reported are not an acurate reflection of the game or games anyway as errors seem to be forgotten, hits embelished, etc. at times. Its a judgement call by a coach (I know I have said enough about your coach)but don't fault a coach for a questionable call (hit or error)they are human too. Maybe he should hit the ball out of the ballpark everytime so there are no questionable calls!

The replies will be interesting as I expect FM faithful (and friends) to come out swinging

SUMMER BALL WILL BE SO MUCH FUN THIS YEAR.....

train....I am confused...I follow this website just like you do but never did I read into it that the FM people were concerned about seeing their stats in the DMN...am I missing something?

I think Coach S stole his girlfriend in high school. (I'm kidding, Train)

Sorry... I'm with Train on this one. It certainly does appear to me that player promotion happens on this message board. Obviously only a few... but it certainly does happen!

Whoa whoa -- would someone please cut and paste a post where H&U mentioned his kid -- other than the case where he was expressing thanks for someone else's post???? We have entire threads for "kudos" and "congrats" --- is that player promotion also? We have had numerous discussions here about statisics. In my humble opinion, H&U is not overly concerned with his son's exposure.

As a natural course of frequent interaction, some kids names will come up. Those whose kids are no longer on the high school scene generally visit less frequently....other than coaches and former coaches, GM's, and what have you. Like other posts, if you aren't interested in the discussion, ummmm, feel free to skip it. If I recall, some have been concerned about "missing" stats -- and have asked about the DMN process.

momandcpa -- you recently participated in a discussion concerning stats and your worries related to their accuracy. I hope you don't think I'm targeting you here, but I disagree with Train's assertion that this discussion is self-promoting.

Holy Cow! He tells us his son went 0-6 the last 2 games...is that tooting his own horn? I don't think so...sounds honest to me.

(BTW, I don't have a dog in this fight...my inital impression was that I liked Coppell's program better than FM's...guess I need to re-think that..)

cs -- I thought you loved us best.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
cs -- I thought you loved us best.

I like that you all have held your heads high and remained positive (apf excluded) during tough district play...so yep, PESH is at the top of my list right now (unless they play cs son's team)

As expected PD is coming to the rescue....I expect a few more of his friends will too.

MomandCPA are you interested in dating...hahahh

CS...our program is better and we will show you soon in the playoffs!

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
but I disagree with Train's assertion that this discussion is self-promoting.

My personal comment was in reference to other discussions and threads... not to this one.

AND... while we're on the subject. Everyone had convinced me NOT to worry about the stats. NOW, it seems like I should be worried about the accuracy of the stats...

Couple of things.

1. I know H&U son, mine has played with him and his Dad wasn't self promoting. Doesn't need to. IMHO.

2. I agree with Train and parents do NEED to let the players make their name. There is some shameless plugs for some on this website. But, like Train said most can see right through it.

Bottomline, the player has to perform and put up the numbers, and let the rest take care of itself.

Agree Longtoss. Anyone who knows H&U or his son knows they don't self promote, don't have to. I'm glad DMN picked up stats so the rest of the world can see how well ALL YOUR SONS are doing.

quote:

Still is nice to see kids that you know and play with and against in the summer listed in the paper though.

quote:

Is this the first time you have ever seen your sons name in the DMN H&U?

I hope it is.

I hope it ain't the last.

For this kid, whovever he is.

For everykid on the FM team.

For everykid on the PESH team.

And for every kid that plays in our area, I wish that they and their parents could all experiece having their son's stat's and accomplishments in the paper.

Success

To laugh often and much;
to win the respect of intelligent people
and the affection of children;
to earn the appreciation of honest critics
and endure the betrayal of false friends;
to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others;
to leave the world a bit better,
whether by a healthy child,
a garden patch
or a redeemed social condition;
to know even one life has breathed easier
because you have lived.
This is to have succeeded.

Widely attbributed to Emerson, the bold emphasis was added by me.

Train,
I refuse to let someone like you bait me in to a discussion that has nowhere to go but downhill on a public message board.

I'm not really sure why you have such a chip on your shoulder for me, my son, the FM program, or life in general. I don't know if I really care.

I will though send you a PM with my cell phone number that you can call me on if you really want to know what I think about your post. I'll be more than happy to give you my honest and unbiased opinion.

Won't hold my breath expecting you to call though.

quote:

Originally posted by Longtoss:

1. I know H&U son, mine has played with him and his Dad wasn't self promoting. Doesn't need to. IMHO.

2. I agree with Train and parents do NEED to let the players make their name. There is some shameless plugs for some on this website. But, like Train said most can see right through it.

I also agree, Longtoss. My comments were in NO way directed to H&U or his son.

momandcpa -- you don't need to worry about stats -- I don't think that is the point of this discussion. We all like our kids (by blood or other means, right KD?) to be recognized for their achievement. Concerning promoting our own, I too agree that it is inappropriate here. If anyone thinks I do that -- please contact me in private because I want to know if I come across that way. I do not feel uncomfortable however, recognizing other kids when they deserve it, whether I know them or their families. I would probably give appropriate kudos to Train's kid if I knew who he is --- at this point, I have to speculate. And CS, if our teams do play, please find me and introduce yourself.

As a final word (in this thread), I want to reiterate that I agree with those that do not consider HS statistics to be a major concern. I do not belive that college coaches rely on them to recruit and I do not believe that their decisions depend on an RBI total or final ERA. If your kid can play, there will be opportunities for him at the next level.

Peace.

-PD

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
We all like our kids (by blood or other means, right KD?) to be recognized for their achievement.
-PD

Dang straight.

Let's not forget the kids that for whatever reason don't start, don't get much district game time, don't get their names and pictures in the paper, don't have their stats reported, don't get mentioned by name anywhere outside the program, yet work just as hard and are just as committed to their teams as the stars.

Krace4,
Couldn't agree with you more. That is why it is called a TEAM.

Also why the team with the most stars doesn't always win IMO.

Krace4

Totally agree on your post......

I hope we never get to the point on this forum that we can't congratulate a fellow posters son on a job well done, that would be a huge shame. You see, I have to admit I love Wednesday and Saturday morning's when I get the Sports Section out, look at the linescores and scan for names of HSBBweb sons.

The first words out of my mouth when I see a poster's sons name listed is "way to go" and then the second thing I try to do is run to the computer and post an "attaboy" on this site. Up until now, I have never viewed this act of posting as "promoting" and hopefully I never will.

In my simple mind that is what I believe we are suppossed to do, we are here to support, we are here to teach, some are here to learn and most of all I hope we are enjoying watching our young men do something they love to do-PLAY BASEBALL and when they are successful in the game they deserve a pat on the back.

In regards to Self Promotion: If it is as simple as putting player's names on this website to garner college scholorships or draftability then I say, heck lets just start one master list, post it on this site, with all the names of kids we know and then sit back and watch the offers roll in...... ......wow what an easy way to get this accomplished, and to think all these years we have had it all wrong. .........

quote:

Originally posted by ballboy:
I'm pretty sure the reason FM stats aren't listed in the DMN is a northern FM conspiracy involving much disdaining...what do you think OBN?

There is much to much disparagement on this website....

ballboy,
Our scores made it fine in the Ft. Worth paper not sure why they didn't make it in the DMN? Your guess is as good as mine.

quote:

Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
Concerning PD's comment on statistical accuracy; he is correct on his statement that it is impossible to achieve. Depends on who's keeping the stats, who's reporting the hits and errors, who's deciding to report or not, etc.

Many times the box scores posted on team websites and/or reported are not an acurate reflection of the game or games anyway as errors seem to be forgotten, hits embelished, etc. at times.

It's refreshing that someone finally admits that coaches embelish stats. Unfortunately, it appears to be for a "chosen" few. I would think that it would lessen the honor of being on the list when coaches embelish for some on the team but not all. I have difficulty understanding why a coach would not want his entire team to look good statistically. Maybe it's their way of justifying certain players in the line-up. I'm not sure which team this quote was in reference to. Maybe it's state wide!

YBS,

I been doing this for a while now.

I never had the thought that a coach would embellish the stats, particularly for one player and not another or even at all. (But, I will confess to having one or two bad thoughts about high school coaches, especially in the areas of bunting and calling pitches in like football plays (there is something about that that just bothers me) ))

Now, I have known of dads of pitchers/hitters that keep the books and are generous with their decisions about how to record a base hit.

I have not seen many coaches actually keeping the book.

Maybe another player, and like I said, a dad or a mom, more recently, the coaches wife, and that now famous high school girl with the tight T-shirt.

For the most part, high school coaches play to win. And they are gonna put the batters in the lineup that can hit first and play defense second.

quote:

Unfortunately, it appears to be for a "chosen" few. I would think that it would lessen the honor of being on the list when coaches embelish for some on the team but not all. I have difficulty understanding why a coach would not want his entire team to look good statistically. Maybe it's their way of justifying certain players in the line-up.

I would encourage you to keep reading and observing because the opinion that you have formed here could be very frustrating for you in the future.

Get a scorebook and keep the stats yourself. It's a great learninig process and you might learn that those with the appropriate stats hit in the correct position in the lineup.

And, by the way, in your quote by honest and unbiased, I don't see where it says the high school coaches do the embellishment.

Where did you get that?

YBS,
My comment wasn't directed at or referencing any particular team. I just meant it as a general comment that many times hits, errors, etc. are in the eye of the beholder and that sometimes they are skewed one way or another for various reasons.

There are a few of our fans at games that keep stats on their palm pilots(I am not one of these people by the way) and when they are deciding between hits and errors for instance many times there are differences of opinion. I sometimes add to the discussion in good humor with a question like: Are we talking summer ball hit or error or high school hit or error?

With all the other stuff the coaches have to be concerned with during a game, and with many times high school kids or a parent or both trying to keep stats, there are bound to be some errors. Not really that big a deal.

I know that there is a runaway Train on here that really doesn't believe me, but I don't think stats are that important as they don't really provide an accurate assessment of how a player is performing in many cases. Stats don't reflect what kind of pitches a 3 or 4 hole hitter is seeing vs a 8 or 9 hole hitter. They don't reflect how many hard hit balls were caught vs how many bleeders got thru. They don't reflect the level of competition that you play as the better teams will typically make better plays in the field thus affecting batting averages and pitching stats. I could go on and on.
Somebody recently told me that worrying about batting average was a waste of time. He said that the emphasis should be on quality at-bats instead, as there were many ways to have a good at-bat but negatively affect a batting average.
I agree with that line of thinking.

Disclaimer: This opinion should not be misconstrued to diminish any stat posted or not in any newspaper in the country. Also I am not saying that any player hitting in the 3 or 4 hole is a better hitter than an 8 or 9 hole hitter, or that players in strong district are better than those in a weak district. Also please note that I have not used any players names in an effort to get them recruited.

YBS, I agree that you may have misinterpreted the discussion in a few areas. I think most people would agree that scoring can be much different from one team to the next -- even opposing books at the same game. But I do not think coaches "cook" books in favor of one player over another --- not drastically anyway. (If one were to look at the Coppell team stats on the DMN site, one might disagree with my comment. )

I think the point is....don't read too much into the leaders, etc....some scorers do not completely understand the rules of scoring and they take an approach that favors their kids, whereas some scorers are very impartial and keep more of a "neutral" book. Our web-site scorer does everything he can to be fair to both teams, often checking with multiple sources for varying opinions -- and his decisions do not always agree with the book kept in the dugout. That's ok too. I think the category that is most difficult to score -- and where we see the biggest *cough* exaggeration is ERA, then BA. Home runs are pretty simple to score, eh?

In any case, if a coach purposely favors one player on his team over another when it comes to scoring --- he should be counseled.

-PD

H&U -- nice disclaimer!

Well, I think that about covers it.

The redundant discussion on redundancy?

There is way too much time between Tuesday and Friday. Well, thankfully Friday is almost here and we can get back to the games at hand.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
I think most people would agree that scoring can be much different from one team to the next -- even opposing books at the same game. But I do not think coaches "cook" books in favor of one player over another --- not drastically anyway. (If one were to look at the Coppell team stats on the DMN site, one might disagree with my comment. )

PD - I just checked out the Coppell stats on the wfaa website and I am ROF LOL

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highschools/l...eamleaders-1105.html

Do they only have one batter and one pitcher?

I just checked out wfaa as well, guess it is easy to have accurate stats when you are only keeping track of 2 players.

Oldbat...those are good players to track (oops did I say that). We only show the leaders it makes the others try harder.

So, without the other seven, how do we know those two are the leaders?