Do players Honestly know they are pro prospects or not

Maybe they think they are the next Greg Maddux.

84-85 mph could be very good speed in HS, if the scout detect room to improve on mechanics or physically (Late growing kids). Dennis Martinez used to throw 79 mph in HS. At major league he reached 91 mph, and had a terrific big leagues carrear. Figuring the prospect's potential is one of the skills that a good scout needs. If those kids walked on to that work out with out invitation, they showed courage and positive actitud, that also is needed to be successfull in baseball. It is not their job to know if they are prospects, that is the scout job, but if they don't show up, there are not chances at all.

Maybe we should just look at who plays in the major leagues today. Despite what some may think not every player was a 1st round draft pick. If our lives were dictated by what other people thought and standards and we just bowed to their whims there are a lot of successful people that would be left behind.

Will,

Greg Maddux when he signed out of HS threw 88-92 mph with fastball that moved 18 inches and had pin point control of 4 pitches.

How many pitchers at the MLB level have Maddux stuff, not many that why he is a hall of famer


alot of players who threw 84-85 mph in hs went to college and improved and became much better. Bily Wagner and Roger Clemens to name a few.

Dibble,

Read Racab's post - a few times.

Hopefully - at some point - the wisdom in that post may actually sink in.

Martinez did not throw 79 mph when he was signed. he was signed in 1973.

Dennis Martinez

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/dennis_martinez.shtml

They did not have radar guns then. First testing device at the mLB level was used at 1974 on Nolan Ryan and the JUgs gun started around 1975.

And according to the above reasoning ever hs player should have crashed PG pre draft showcase.


MLB scouts have open tryout camps, attend them.

Dibble,

Simply put - you do not have the qualifications - nor do you have the authority -to make such statements.

If uninvited players are allowed to attend the various events - then I hope that many of the young men with dreams and some skill do just that.

If uninvited players are not allowed to attend - then they will be turned away.

Your "advice" is nothing more than blather and drivel IMO.

I know of many univited young players - who were drafted. From the late 70's up to last year.

If those young men took your "advice" (derision) - perhaps they may have never had the experience of playing professional baseball.

IMO - You should keep posting the links and the wacky funny stories - and stay away from serious stuff.

Just my opinion.

dibble
I never said that Dennis was signed throwing 79 mph, what I said was that in HS he was throwing 79. He didn't played HS baseball in this country, but in his native Nicaragua. I don't know if you have met Denis, I did and his son played HS and Collegue with one of my kids. What I said, he told me, if you know more than him self, my excuses, you know more than everybody.

First post was do players honestly know if they are pro prospects or not.

MLB scouts have invite only Pre Draft Workouts for A REASON

If you think they missed on you attended an open tryout camp.

Read the posts, players did not show MLB tools but were totally convinced they did and they did not. Be realistic about your ability and relize you are being rated on MLB standards not HS or college level.


one of the uninvite players was good, threw 91 mph.

Racab,

I have mentioned this once or twice before in the past few years, but I just wanted to say again: I really appreciate what you add to this forum. Your posts are always thoughtful and often make me stop and think as well. Thank you!

quote:

one of the uninvite players was good, threw 91 mph.

That pretty much tells everyone all they need to know about this discussion and the opinion that throwing 91 is the only thing that makes one "good".

Big et al ...

Amen !!!

Mn-Mom

Thanks, you are so kind.

Do they know?

I certainly hope they do not know or care, only "enjoy the game"and learn, learn, learn from each AB, each pitch, each loss or victory.

During my 19 years with the Area Code games, the pro scouts cut players in tryouts, who later become 1st round drafts and Major League players.

Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Adam LaRoche,
Andy LaRoche and Bobby Bradley all were recommended by non-pro scouts for a Area Code team and played in the games.

There are two areas where scouts cannot evaluate in a one day tryout.

1. The heart [make-up]
2. The "bat"

If Pete Rose wanted to "walk on" to our tryout, he would receive the opportunity.
My son, Robert and I in 1997 conduct a tryout in Beijing, China and everyone "walk on".
It was a great experience.

Bob Williams

Recab said:

quote:

Figuring the prospect's potential is one of the skills that a good scout needs.....It is not their job to know if they are prospects, that is the scout job

My son called today and we talked about his team being selected to participate in the NCAA regional at Tallahassee, FL. During our phone conversation he said; “I’ve been so tied up in baseball that the draft has really sneaked up on me; it’s less than a week away”. I know how much he wants to move into pro ball this year so I thought for a second and said basically what Recab says....Here’s what I said to my son... ”Don’t worry about the pro draft or things you have no control of, if you play your game to the best of your ability, everything else will take care of itself.”
Fungo

Thank God we have posters with COMMON SENSE who offset the DRIVEL of DIBBLE


Andy May (DIBBLE/DRIVEL) stay around for 'comic relief" but nothing else please--you know what you speak of--

quote:

Originally posted by Dibble:
Greg Maddux when he signed out of HS threw 88-92 mph with fastball that moved 18 inches and had pin point control of 4 pitches.

How many pitchers at the MLB level have Maddux stuff, not many that why he is a hall of famer


alot of players who threw 84-85 mph in hs went to college and improved and became much better. Bily Wagner and Roger Clemens to name a few.

Maddux threw only three pitches in High School...fastball, curve and change. He was 90-95mph and the fastball and change both had a nice tail, but did not move 18". He did have very good control however.

quote:

”Don’t worry about the pro draft or things you have no control of, if you play your game to the best of your ability, everything else will take care of itself.”

Amen, Brother.

TR be nice I never point out your lack of coaching experience at any level like high school, college, NCAA summer league or profesional ball and how you always refuse to answer that question.

How did your HS Showcase in California go a few years ago and how come you dont do anymore in the land of the Governator. ( hint hint)

Any of you who think that you have to throw 90 plus to be a great pitcher let me just throw this out to you. Prepsters son was 1st team ALL ACC this year. I had the priveledge of seeing him pitch in person several times this year and on TV as well. He is a pitcher. He has command of three or four pitches and battles his heart out. He is a stud. He is not an overpowering guy. He just gets people out and knows how to pitch at a very high level in an outstanding league. There are a few guys on that staff at UNC that throw low to mid 90's and they are very good pitchers. But prepsters son was the most effective pitcher on that staff throughout the entire season eventually earning a spot on the starting rotation from the bull pen as a long reliever. Prepster let me just say this I enjoy watching your son pitch. He is everything in my opinion a pitcher should be. He had an outstanding season and I wish him all the luck as well as his teamates in the Gainsville regional this week end.

DRIVEL

Point out whatever you want-- I dont think coaching at the levels you speak of makes you a better baseball man--and I never refused to answer--read my profile--that is why it is there

As for the WEST COAST , hint hint, it didnt work out --plain and simple--as they say """" Happens !

In closing DRIVEL speaking of not answering----have your heard from Angelfire yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Dibble:
Greg Maddux when he signed out of HS threw 88-92 mph with fastball that moved 18 inches and had pin point control of 4 pitches...

If Maddux threw 88-92 with pinpoint control and 18" of movement, why would he back off the mphs? Your post, as usual, makes no sense.

In any business, you try different things. Some work, some do not. Having the courage to try is important. That takes us back to the original ignorant post and comments. If the kids want to show up and try out and try to chase their dreams. What does it hurt? The scouts could say no. They didn't. (Obviously you would have, but we all know that you aer a lurker and have no say so) They looked and evaluated. Any good scout would look. Telling everyone not to try is weird for someone who is a scout wannabe like you. Maybe that is why you are a wannabe and not a scout? Hmmmm.

I admire the kids for trying. It only takes one guy or one good day for a scout to see something. It hurts nobody to try your best. Why do you resent that so much?

Bighit

Obviously you dont know DRIVEL--there is no logic in his thinking

I too agree that kids are to be commended for trying to follow their dreams---any good scout worth his salt will take a look at every kid he can because you never when you find an "unknown gem" especially if the scout is already there to see other players

"It only takes one guy or one good day for a scout to see something."

There is a ring of truth to that statement, and I can personally testify to that.

I fully respect the guys who are the, "can't miss" players. Those are the easy ones for scouts and everyone to pick out. It's the kid who really does have what it takes and has not fully developed yet that is intriguing. The players who have that fire burning inside of them to get it done no matter how many people tell them they can't. These are the guys that make a great scout great. And, IMO it is what makes the game so great. "Persistence is Omnipotent." There are many examples. A couple of my favorites are guys like Mike Piazza, or Marcus Giles.

Having said this, the players must have a certain skill set, but these border line guys with a lot of heart and desire are the more fascinating stories to me.

First of all there are proper places like open tryout camps and showcases for players to be seen. That is the whole point of them.

Just showing up to an INVITE ONLY PRE DRAFT uninvited. For one thing is not gonna make any scout happy. They have spent alot of time and money scouting and screening the invited players and want one last look before submitting their draft list.


TR How many hours do you average a day online???
Does not it strain yours eyes???

quote:

For one thing is not gonna make any scout happy.

How would you know? Furthermore, believing in yourself enough to show up shows me guts and determination. Those are pretty good mental tools and if I am a "good scout", I am going to look. If you want to go home, go ahead. Then you can be one of the many bad and lazy scouts.

I would think that if it was in fact "an invite only" predraft showcase, then the scouts would have a list of names who were invited. If your name wasn't on the list, i would think you would have been turned away? Just a thought.

Coming from someone who had over 140 players drafted or signed to affialiated or independent league contracts in the last 3 years in tryout camps I have run. Someone must think I know what I am doing.


Bighit, it takes talent plus determination to be a pro player.

quote:

Bighit, it takes talent plus determination to be a pro player.

How would you know?

Wouldn't showing up to a showcase uninvited be a sign of determination? At least one of the uninvited had talent AND determination by your own admission. So wouldn't that alone make it worth it to see as many players as humanly possible?

quote:

Originally posted by Dibble:
First post was do players honestly know if they are pro prospects or not.

MLB scouts have invite only Pre Draft Workouts for A REASON

If you think they missed on you attended an open tryout camp.

Read the posts, players did not show MLB tools but were totally convinced they did and they did not. Be realistic about your ability and relize you are being rated on MLB standards not HS or college level.


one of the uninvite players was good, threw 91 mph.

So...if the on univited player threw 91 mph why wouldn't he think he was pro material. Especially since 90 mph is the magic number. Guess he was right to show up.

Dibble.....just wondering.....of the 140 players who attended your camps and were signed......how many would have been signed if they had not attended your camp?

I have actually coached several players who were drafted and/or signed.......it wasn't because of me that they advanced to the professional ranks; it was due to their abilities and skills. None of them ever had to pay me a cent, either!

grateful

when a play succeeds it is due to all of a number of factors:

Just to name a few and DRIVEl take heed because the "Old Man" Speaketh !!!

01-- his God Given Talent
02-- his work ethic
03-- his coaches from LL thru hs/college--if he has the right situation in minors he MAY make it to the "bigs"
04-- his being in the right place at the right time in front of the right people no matter what the level of competition

Need I go on ?

There are tons of player that have ability and no one knows about them. Good example, a MLB scout was at ACC Game and someone in stands tells him hey there this guy that throws 90 plus on the schools club team.

Likley the 1000 time that year they hear a story like that.

The player came to a tryout camp I ran threw 89-91 mph. Invited him to a pre draft, he threw 89-93 mph. Offered minor contract on the spot. Decideds to transfer to another college , throws 94 mph, Comes to the pre draft again throws well. drafted 16 th rd and got a good bonus. Pitching very well in the midwest league now.


You need talent, but you also need to get seen in order to get signed

I also coached too in a NCAA Collegaite league and did everything possible to help the players get seen by MLB scouts. MLB scouts were all sent schedules, addresses,60 YD times, release times, MPH and stats from colleges, along with weekly stats and MPH times of every game they pitched during the summer.

There were mLB scouts at everyone of our games, despite the frequent 100 degree heat.
1/3 the team has already signed contracts in indy or minor league ball and the number will go up after the draft next week.

Dibble,

There are interesting conversations - and then there are inane - circular logical - carnival conversations.

This one - and most particularly your comments - fit neatly into the latter category IMO.

Post a link to a penguin tossing game or some other fun thing.

I like that stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Dibble:
...The player came to a tryout camp I ran threw 89-91 mph. Invited him to a pre draft, he threw 89-93 mph. Offered minor contract on the spot. Decideds to transfer to another college...

If he was a college player when he came to your 1st "pre-draft", how could he be offered a free agent contract?!?

Your logic fails and, thus, your story collapses as well. NEXT.