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21 replies

ejected for being right?????

A ARDE69Member
Posted July 14, 2009 02:57 PM Hide Post
I had issue with this durring this past weekends tournament in 11,12,13 year old league. During the first inning i observed every batter on the opposing team was taking initial position with their feet clearly closer than 6 inches and some as close as 1 inch to the plate. between innings I requested that the umpire look at the foot position and or make a ruleing. I do not teach my boys to stand any closer than the front line of the box, leaving a minimun of 6 inches clear in front of the foot to the plate. the umpire did not / would not make the other teams batters start with both feet within the box. middle of the second inning I asked about this again, at this point she stated that she was about sick of this and told me that if any part of the foot was touching the line that it was a legal starting position and that i needed to be quiet about it. she then went and asked another (official) about her ruleing. I commented about this fact that she made a ruleing without knowing the rules, this I should have kept to myself 20-20.....

when she stated that this was the rule i agreed to play by the ruleing, our head coach then had another question about late roster additions for a youth that had arrived late to the game, the other team, he was allowed to join the game at the end of the lineup and that is ok with me everybody plays rule.

he then asked me what my question was and i told him it didn't matter that i had been ruled wrong, this is when i was ejected from the game. I began to walk quietly to the dougout with out arguement or speaking to her at all. as i reached our dougout I informed our players and coaches that as long as the feet were touching the line we could also stand as close to the plate as we wanted.... this is when she ejected me from the grounds.

I contacted our towns local official and asked about this rule and to my shegrin was informed that this was the interpritation of the rule for the whole league. I can not agree

11, 12, 13 year old pitchers cannot comand their pitches to retake the inside of the plate when the batter is this close. they do not want to hit anyone with a pitch thus effectivly shrinking the strike zone by 6 inches..... after getting behind in the count the pitcher in order to throw a strike takes a little something off the pitch and bam a line drive hit.... I know that this was taught by the coaching staff certianly after having another team do the same to them....and getting the ruleing of our officials. I would like to after the season is over, maybe tonight, get with the officials and clarify this rule for next year. where do i find the documentation that will show the clarified rule.
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A Alex710+ posts
Arde, you're asking them to overturn the actual rules of baseball.

Rule 2-7-2 "The lines are part of the batter's box."

Rule 7-3-2 "A batter is out when he hits the ball fair or foul while either foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box or touching home plate."

The umpire was right that unless ALL of the foot is outside the lines, there is no infraction.

The batters on the other team were following the first rule mentioned here, and were not breaking the second rule. It's just good coaching.

You can counter it by teaching pitchers to pitch to both halves of the plate. If your pitchers don't throw hard enough to jam players who are that close to the plate...you'll lose Smile

Also, in regards to being hit by the pitch, the batters that close to the plate do run the risk of being hit by a pitch that's a strike, which will then still be called a strike without them getting 1st base.
Last edited by Alex7
A ARDE69Member
I agree that the lines are a part of the box and i understand the rule that the batters position isthat both feet are within the box prior to the pitch. I also understand that if one or both feet are at least touching the line and not touching home plate fair or foul is a legal position. you can not apply rule 7-3-2 to the batters starting position.

I would refer to rule 6.03
The batter's legal position shall be with both feet within the batter's box.
APPROVED RULING: The lines defining the box are within the batter's box.
jjkjjk500+ posts
quote:
I would refer to rule 6.03
The batter's legal position shall be with both feet within the batter's box.
APPROVED RULING: The lines defining the box are within the batter's box.


I would be hard pressed that anyone in this league could produce in black and white a league rule that say's "the batter may stand outside the box". I could be wrong, but..ask to see a copy..and please share it here.. I'll be the first to write my and your congressmen ;')

So ARDE69, next time, just request to protest this misapplication of the rules and let your "protest board" figure it out, and play on.

When it's obvious your not gonna change an umpires opinion, it's time to move on..period. No matter how right you might be it ain't gonna work on the field.
Your rule cite looks to be FED: but it's
absolutely right for any other discipline I've ever heard of.. Being within (including on) the lines governs only the batters taking their position in the box.

Hitting a ball is governed by
6.06 A batter is out for illegal action when—
(a) He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box.
Rule 6.06(a) Comment: If a batter hits a ball fair or foul while out of the batter’s box, he shall be called out. Umpires should pay particular attention to the position of the batter’s feet if he attempts to hit the ball while he is being intentionally passed. A batter cannot jump or step out of the batter’s box and hit the ball.
A ARDE69Member
jjk, thanks for both replys. I agree that once the call has been made on the field that the arguement is over, I just wanted it clarified loud enough for our coaches and fans to hear it so we could play by the same rules thus not needing to protest the game as I would have instructed our batters to do the same.....this brings it back to equal rules, no advantage.

as for the future of youth baseball and this rule in our rec league i believe that the batter needs to be within the box thus allowing these 13 and under pitchers to throw strikes without thinking too much about hitting the batter, I would rather see the kids swing the bats at the pitchers best pitches than force the pitcher to give up walks and softballs.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
I will freely admit when I am wrong. I will check with my partner if it is a play that allows it and I feel I need help. I will gladly discuss any ruling if asked. I will not have a coach come out and scream at me about something that he may or not understand.
In this case, umpires allowing batters to put toes against the plate is wrong. They may not understand the rule and so are doing it wrong. Go out and discuss it and protest if you can't agree.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
I was hoping to see FED do something similar (or identical) to what the NCAA has done with the batters box and the hit-by-pitch. Instead they are working on making sure we have to buy a lot of different equipment.... I guess if I was on the rules committee and getting all those free shirts, shoes, and jackets I'd be happier about it.


The difference between NCAA and FED only affect what happens AFTER a batter is hit by a pitch. No rule affects the batter getting hit by a pitch.

Buying extra equipment, also, is not dictated or necessitated by a rule, rather by a reaction to an event, which the rule, after the fact, addresses.
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
The College rule:

Hit by Pitch Rule. This rule has been clarified by the committee for this season. The batter must make an attempt to avoid the pitch. If a pitch freezes a batter and he is not able to avoid a pitch and the pitch is clearly in his batter’s box, first base is awarded. If a pitch hits the batter outside the vertical lines of the batter’s box and the hitter makes no attempt to avoid the pitch, the batter remains at the plate and the pitch is called a ball or strike.

Another way to look at this rule change, if a batter hits the ball with any part of his body by moving his body part towards the pitch, the batter will be kept at the plate and the pitch called a ball or strike, depending upon the pitch’s location. If the ball hits the batter as the batter is attempting to avoid the pitch, the batter is awarded first base. This guidance should assist umpires and coaches with the adjudication of this rule. `copied from some website about ncaa baseball

The high school rule makes no mention of the batters box (unless I am mistaken)... The point of the batters box is important and makes it easy on the umps. If the kid stands there and does not move and the ball hits him in the batters box; he gets first. If the ball is not in the box, it's a ball or strike and he's still up there.
(a few days ago a kid threw a breaking pitch behind my right handed hitter; he stood there and the ball hit him in the back of his right heel: the umpire says, "nope, stay right here he didn't make an attempt" )
Last edited by trojan-skipper
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
The College rule:

Hit by Pitch Rule. This rule has been clarified by the committee for this season. The batter must make an attempt to avoid the pitch. If a pitch freezes a batter and he is not able to avoid a pitch and the pitch is clearly in his batter’s box, first base is awarded. If a pitch hits the batter outside the vertical lines of the batter’s box and the hitter makes no attempt to avoid the pitch, the batter remains at the plate and the pitch is called a ball or strike.

Another way to look at this rule change, if a batter hits the ball with any part of his body by moving his body part towards the pitch, the batter will be kept at the plate and the pitch called a ball or strike, depending upon the pitch’s location. If the ball hits the batter as the batter is attempting to avoid the pitch, the batter is awarded first base. This guidance should assist umpires and coaches with the adjudication of this rule. `copied from some website about ncaa baseball

The high school rule makes no mention of the batters box (unless I am mistaken)... The point of the batters box is important and makes it easy on the umps. If the kid stands there and does not move and the ball hits him in the batters box; he gets first. If the ball is not in the box, it's a ball or strike and he's still up there.
(a few days ago a kid threw a breaking pitch behind my right handed hitter; he stood there and the ball hit him in the back of his right heel: the umpire says, "nope, stay right here he didn't make an attempt" )


Irrelevant both to my point and to your complaint about buying additional equipment.
Last edited by Jimmy03
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I'm with Trojan Skipper on this one in that the Fed rule could be better. I think it should / could be more in line with the college rule.

Side note and this is something I've brought up before is that at rules meetings the guy telling us about any rule change or interpretation change always says this is what the committee wanted and the committee is made up of coaches. Well I have yet to be asked my opinion, know how to voice my opinion if asked or not asked, serve on the committee, put my name to be eligible to serve on the committee or even vote on any kind of change. I'm not looking to blame anyone group (umps, coaches, FED) in particular. I'm just saying if the rule changes are what "we coaches" wanted then I want to be able to voice my opinion a little more.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm with Trojan Skipper on this one in that the Fed rule could be better. I think it should / could be more in line with the college rule.

Side note and this is something I've brought up before is that at rules meetings the guy telling us about any rule change or interpretation change always says this is what the committee wanted and the committee is made up of coaches. Well I have yet to be asked my opinion, know how to voice my opinion if asked or not asked, serve on the committee, put my name to be eligible to serve on the committee or even vote on any kind of change. I'm not looking to blame anyone group (umps, coaches, FED) in particular. I'm just saying if the rule changes are what "we coaches" wanted then I want to be able to voice my opinion a little more.


Contact your state organization. Many of them survey members asking for suggestions for rule changes. It's too late for next year, those are done already.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Thanks Jimmy - you are the first person to lead me in the right direction. Most of the time I just hear "not real sure but I will check on it." Then I never hear from them again or when I ask later they haven't gotten around to it yet.

I hope I didn't come across negatively because I love the rules aspect of any sport. I want to know what the rules are and do try to learn them as best as I can. I think this gives me an advantage over other coaches.

Thanks again and sorry for hijacking the thread.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
IMHO if FED adopted the College Rule, us parents would stop complaining about strike calls on pitches 12" off the outside part of the plate.

I'm just a parent and my son is a pitcher, but come on. There are hitters with 1/2 their body mass in the strike zone in AZ during HS games. There are umpires lined up with their left eye (right handed batter) over the outter third of the plate.

Sometimes I think the strike zone is an immaginary plate right next to the visible one...

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