Expectations for mid-sized HS baseball program?

I don't think you will find a consensus.  It depends on the coach and the time he has to devote to the program.  Some are coaching multiple sports and/or have other obligations and don't have the time or see it as their job to develop offseason.  Others feel it is the student's job to do it either through class or on their own.  Ours is the weight lifting coach so he makes sure players sign up for his classes but it is still up to them if they do the work. 

Big school, small school and in-between, development is on the player. 

Find good personal trainers (budget allowing), physical and baseball.

Sit on his academics - they will be as important to his chances as baseball. Meet with guidance counselor as early as you can get an appointment so the family can get to understand the college selection process (most rigorous cirriculum, rigorous, etc. levels and their meanings). Also, take in a few local college games so you'll can get a feel of the level of play needed and visit lots of various college campuses to get feels for different types.

Dont worry about size. Mine (LHP) was 5"3ish and 125 lbs heading into HS; some of his earlier blooming friends were seemingly twice his size. You cant control that; you can control grades and hard daily baseball related work.

Also, welcome to the site.

My sons attended different NorCal Division 2 schools in the same athletic conference, so I was pretty familiar with their programs, as well as with others in our conference and in some neighboring conferences.

I think you sort of answered your own question - overall, at most schools off- season conditioning is the player's responsibility.  Partly because, as you note, coaches are not paid to be full-time, year round employees, and partly because usage of school gyms and weight facilities has to be shared with other teams, and the in-season sports get priority.

You didn't ask, but as for off season practices and games, I would say it's all over the map. Some schools have robust fall ball programs  Some of those welcome a few players from nearby schools. Some have zilch.   Even those that do have programs are usually  missing key players to football, soccer, etc.  BTW these programs usually have fees that help the coaches make a little more money.

JCG posted:

You didn't ask, but as for off season practices and games, I would say it's all over the map. Some schools have robust fall ball programs 

Thanks for your reply. There is a fall ball program with practices and games, but my observation has been that the big gains in his play in recent years have come when he really gets into his calisthenics.

Goosegg posted:

Big school, small school and in-between, development is on the player. 

Find good personal trainers (budget allowing), physical and baseball.

Sit on his academics - they will be as important to his chances as baseball. Meet with guidance counselor as early as you can get an appointment so the family can get to understand the college selection process (most rigorous cirriculum, rigorous, etc. levels and their meanings). Also, take in a few local college games so you'll can get a feel of the level of play needed and visit lots of various college campuses to get feels for different types.

Dont worry about size. Mine (LHP) was 5"3ish and 125 lbs heading into HS; some of his earlier blooming friends were seemingly twice his size. You cant control that; you can control grades and hard daily baseball related work.

Also, welcome to the site.

 

This all makes sense to me. He is 5' 3" and 105 lbs BTW so any kind of (age-appropriate) physical conditioning he does has a big impact. At age 12 1/2, when he first got into calisthenics, he worked really hard at it for about 3 months. He gained 5 pounds and his velocity went up 5 MPH. Since then he has been inconsistent with calisthenics and his gains in velocity (inconsistent) have reflected that.

We would emphasize academics regardless. Neither my wife nor I grew up in sports families - was music/academics for both of us. So academics comes before sports in our family.

You imply that he's a PO, and if so, he should take a few months off from throwing each year, IMO, and fall is often the best time for that.

JCG posted:

You imply that he's a PO, and if so, he should take a few months off from throwing each year, IMO, and fall is often the best time for that.

He's not a PO yet (he has a good arm in right field and does fine at 1B) but clearly pitching is his strong point and his future, so PO will happen eventually.

He does take a minimum 3 months off from throwing each year - which is a big reason I'm not a fan of fall ball. I also religiously track pitch counts. An advantage of being small is that he has not been pitched excessively - that honor usually belongs to the big, early developers who throw hard.

Over the next couple of years your son’s improvement will come from growing and corresponding strength development. Optimize his strength development with workouts. 

Just because the baseball program doesn’t have an offseason program doesn’t mean your son can’t develop his own with a small circle of ball playing friends. 

Welcome to the posting side joeG.  I coached HS for many years in Calif. until very recently.  The stipend you mention is actually on the high side.  It is essentially volunteer work.  Your description is typical.  Most fellow coaches in the arena had some depth of experience with the game, usually at the college level.  Assistant coaches were more of a crapshoot.  Some had extensive playing experience, some not so much - it can be hard to find those guys who will do it for free and show up regularly for several months.  Often, HS coaches are working a regular job (sometimes at the school but not always) and then scrambling to fulfill their obligation to the HS baseball program.  Sometimes, you'll get a retired guy. 

With just about all public schools, budget is very limited - don't know if you are at a public or private.  The most important thing to keep in mind is that, no matter how good or bad they are, they are working with a team or program full of players.  So, during the normal course of those daily TEAM practices, one-on-one time is usually limited.  Therefore, even in the best of circumstances, the player must do supplemental work on his own. 

What is typical is that a player can count on an adequate number of defensive and offensive reps over the course of each week as well as working through situational stuff.  We were careful to have a specific pitcher bullpen schedule in place but that is not always the case.  We worked on conditioning but were limited in equipment and extra time when there was always so much baseball-specific work that needed to be done during the available practice hours.  We always stated that each player must do X amount of certain types of conditioning on their own.

The size of 1500 shouldn't really be a factor.  That is plenty to pull enough good athletes from.  And as far as organizing and managing the program, I've seen much smaller schools consistently succeed and larger ones fail miserably.

These days, most baseball players who go on to have successful college careers are playing HS ball, playing competitive travel ball and have some regimen for private training and instruction.

IMO, it is very important that the parent show full support of the coaching staff and program as to set the right example for the young man.  You won't find "perfect".   It is largely what you make of it.  The benefits and special experience that is HS baseball usually far exceed the shortcomings, assuming you put in the effort to make it that way.

cabbagedad posted:

 

The size of 1500 shouldn't really be a factor.  That is plenty to pull enough good athletes from.  And as far as organizing and managing the program, I've seen much smaller schools consistently succeed and larger ones fail miserably.

 

Thank you very much for your perspective, cabbagedad. I really appreciate it - exactly what I was looking for.

From what you describe - it sounds like our high school has a reasonable (average) baseball setup and I should express appreciation for that at every opportunity.

I agree that 1500 is plenty of students from which to draw enough good athletes. Turns out that the 2023 and 2022 age cohorts in our town happen to be way above average, so our school will likely win a lot of games a couple years from now.

The reason I started this thread was to get an understanding of what kinds of expectations are reasonable. Sounds like off-season group conditioning programs led by head coach of a HS baseball program are the exception, not the norm.

"You imply that he's a PO, and if so, he should take a few months off from throwing each year,"

A bit of thread drift, but I distinguished between throwing and pitching. My son threw virtually every day from the time he began rec ball all the way through college. Throwing conditioned his arm. We took time off from pitching each year (varying length). For him, long toss made his arm feel loose and strong; just always pay attention to form and be aware of fatigue (especially when young and mechanics are inconsistent).

Southern California puts teams into divisions based on performance, so Division 2 (2nd highest out of 7) means that the baseball team has been pretty successful, and probably made the playoffs but perhaps stopped short of a championship.  I point this out to suggest that you coach probably knows how to win and may very well be high-caliber, even if he's only paid $5k per year (which I believe is typical).  Perhaps he has a full-time job, or perhaps he's a teacher on a full-time salary, or perhaps he runs a travel program and gives lessons to earn a living.

As others have said, development is on you.  And though he probably knows how to win, he may or may not know how to develop a player.  One thing I've seen time and again is that most practice time is devoted to working on game situations - bunt defense, pickoffs, 1st and 3rd defense, cut-offs, etc.  Most higher-level players do extra hitting outside of HS practice and get extra defensive work in on weekends.  My son's coach was pretty good about managing regular and timely bullpens for the pitchers during practice (but he has a pitching background).

I'm surprised he doesn't have organized pre-season workouts.  These have become the norm in Southern California, along with a summer ball game schedule and fall ball game schedule, and in many cases pre-season tournaments.

Regardless, I would get him on a strength program and a good pitching coach now that the season is over.

I don't coach in Ca but have never received $5,000 as a head coach.  My school is 1,100.  When I was the HC, my state only had 2 classes and we were one of, if not the, smallest school in our class many different years.  Still, we managed to win our fair share of games and advanced our fair share in the playoffs.  

States differ so much.  We are not allowed to have coaches set up anything other than weight room workouts.  I did weight room and plyo program and we started at 6 in the morning.  Typically, I had 20 plus in a workout.  We could/can have open gyms but the coach can only sit in a chair and make sure that safety in the top priority.  My AD wouldn't allow open gyms until after the first of the year.  Time restraints are so tough in my school and everyone wants a part of the gyms.  People don't think about things like track having an indoor season.