favoring seniors

quote:

Originally posted by RedSoxFan21:

I disagree on this one. The high school senior who has no chance to play college ball, yet is good enough to be on the high school team over others who have tried out, absolutely should experience some favoritism.

College coaches are extremely unlikely to spend much if any valuable spring time looking at high school teams. That's where Legion, Travel, camps, and showcases come in for the next 'recruiting class'. It just does not happen for high school. So that part of the argument is out for me.

Now I'm not saying a player who is markedly worse than an underclassman should play, but I do think that if the skills are close to as good, then seniors rule. For many of them its their last chance to shine on the diamond, their last chance to be part of a sports team, their last chance to bask in the glory of high school before getting even closer to the 'real world'.

Call me soft, call me sensitive, or just don't call me. That's fine. But play the seniors and make the underclassman be lightyears better before they bump out an upperclassman.

+1! Good post. College/pro scouts simply don't come to HS games unless a HS coach gives them a heads up about a potential prospect.

My son's team happens to have a senior pitcher who is throwing in the low 90's at 17 yrs of age. The first scout to see him was actually there to see another player (this was his sophomore year). Up until that time, we rarely had scouts in attendance at a game. During his junior year there was still only a few scouts here and there. Last summer during Legion ball we suddenly noticed more scouts. And at his opener (as a senior) this spring there were 18 scouts in attendance.

If he's not pitching there's rarely any scouts.

Pretty much this is the exception, not the rule. If you want to be noticed you'll have to attend camps, Legion and showcases. Generally speaking scouts don't come to HS games.

As to seniors playing over underclassman, I feel the senior should get the nod assuming the players are equal. As noted, this is the last year on the diamond for the senior. One last chance for glory. Most HS players know they will probably not play organized ball after HS. However, if the younger player is significantly better, then yes, he should get the playing time.

The general consensus is that the seniors getting the nod over the underclssman with all things being relatively equal in talent, showing up for most or all the practices, putting the work etc.. and the underclassman getting the nod if he's cosiderably better than the next best senior at his position.

There's nothing wrong with putting out the best 9 on the varsity since the varsity level in high school is geared towards trying to win division, conference and state titles. If the coach feels the best 9 are his seniors even though a couple of underclassmen are potentially just as good of may be better down the road, then that's the way it goes.

The one thing I can't wrap my arms around though is playing a freshman or a sophomore over a senior because of "potential upside" If the senior is better at that given time but the soph will project to be better when he's a senior, then the underclassman should wait his turn and get his reps down on JV and when the senior graduaes, hw will be given every opportunity to take over that spot.

I've seen a new coach come in and cut a few Seniors. Guess they did not add much to the team, or could have been an attitude thing, who knows. I say good for him. You should have to work for your spot not have it given to you because you are a certain grade. Entitlements should not be present in sports. Play the best player for the position. In college they do that. UK basketball plays true Freshman because they are the best over the others. Playing time should be earned by skill level/effort given IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:

The one thing I can't wrap my arms around though is playing a freshman or a sophomore over a senior because of "potential upside" If the senior is better at that given time but the soph will project to be better when he's a senior, then the underclassman should wait his turn and get his reps down on JV and when the senior graduaes, hw will be given every opportunity to take over that spot.

This is exactly how my HS career ended. Coaching change in SR year and I was told by new coach that while I might be better than a couple of the Jr's and Soph's he was going to play them over me because it would "help the team down the line".

I asked politely if he was kidding. When he said no I then told him to F himself with as much disgust as I could muster. It was a Catholic school in the 70's so it caused a stir but I never regretted it.

Also major life lesson that the new boss cleans house. It's been that way in every job I've ever had.

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:

This is exactly how my HS career ended. Coaching change in SR year and I was told by new coach that while I might be better than a couple of the Jr's and Soph's he was going to play them over me because it would "help the team down the line".

I asked politely if he was kidding. When he said no I then told him to F himself with as much disgust as I could muster. It was a Catholic school in the 70's so it caused a stir but I never regretted it.

Also major life lesson that the new boss cleans house. It's been that way in every job I've ever had.

I would've done the same thing. It's a slap in the face to all the seniors who worked hard thru those four years and are finishing up their baseball careers in most cases.

Sure, the HC has every right to run his program his way but if he has the mentality of always playing "potential" with freshman and sophomores, he'll never keep hs players in the program because he'll get the reputation that he's ready to replace the upperclassmen as soon as the next freshman phenom comes along and they'll quit after sophomore or junior year and who can blame them. Personally, I think this is a bad way to run a program because you need older players to lead a team. Its one thing to rebuild or reload a team decimated by graduation but to sit better upperclassman players in favor of young inexperienced potential makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

And yep..it's a life lesson to be learned about the new sheriff in town cleaning house.

Scenario

You are 0-8 with seniors? What do you do?

you introduce them to the sophmores and juniors who will be taking their jobs.

As a father of a sophmore I think I have changed my attitude a little on this. This may be the senior's last time to play baseball, and the talented underclassman will have chances in later years and maybe in college. As the HS season comes to an end I think seniors should get more of a chance to play. Summer ball is more important anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Scenario

You are 0-8 with seniors? What do you do?

Look for a new job. It is nice to think that these guys are just there to help guide the boys through the "experience" as they move into the real world. These coaches need to win games, conference championships, and place in their state tournaments. That's how it is where we live.

Well the answer is I started playing the underclassmen. I was not a popular guy with the seniors and I heard through sources rumblings from the parents. I had to make a choice and I made it. Not to be cold but you have to do what is best for the program. What are You suppose to do. A senior can not get the job done you are suppose to keep him in there because he is a senior. that Junior or soph deserves a shot. It worked out. the underclassmen devoloped faster and we were good the next several years.

You play the best players.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Scenario

You are 0-8 with seniors? What do you do?

Give the sophomores and juniors a shot at the positions. The seniors have had their chance and aren't getting it done with nearly half the season gone. They certainly can't do any worse.

Generally speaking, I would always give the seniors the first shot assuming the sophomore/junior/senior are equal in skill.

If (and that's a big if) the underclassman is significantly better than the senior then the underclassman gets the nod and the senior either sits or maybe moves to a position he can handle better. I've only seen a few times where a underclassman was significantly better than a senior - it has to be noticeable.

Example - in his sophomore year my son made the varsity squad. He beat out the senior for his position (catcher). How? The senior catcher couldn't catch a curve ball. Had way too many passed balls and this was just in practice. He also out hit the senior. So who do you think the coach went with? Except for one game (a weak opponent) my son was the starter for the rest of the games and usually stayed there until the team built a significant lead.

There are many things that go into choosing the lineup. The obvious thing is talent… The best players play! But once in awhile the more talented player isn’t the best player or the best player for the team. Upper classmen can have an advantage in the coaches’ eyes. The upper classmen is more likely to know what the coach wants, how the coach thinks, understand the system. In other words there is an advantage in being a veteran. The underclassmen will have that same advantage later on. I think everyone would agree that the best player should play, but there will always be debate about who that best player is. Obviously if the best player is an underclassmen, he should be on the field, but I can see why a coach might value (trust) an upperclassmen more even when the underclassmen might have a bit more talent. Not saying a very poor upper classmen should be ahead of a very good underclassmen.

Think about it at a higher level… There are players in the minor leagues that are more talented than some of the vets in the Big Leagues. Nearly any scout in the world would say that Bryce Harper has more ability than many on the Nationals 25 man roster. Yet Bryce is young and he's not on that roster to start the season. Should we believe that this organization doesn’t know what they are doing? Should we think they are being unfair or playing favorites? Aren’t they interested in winning? After all, how can the young #1 prospect in baseball be left off the MLB club? Truth is, the same thing takes place with every club. Then after awhile everything seems to work out.

If they do it all the time in the Major leagues, why are high school coaches being questioned for doing the same thing? Of course, each coach and each decision is different. Not everyone is a great coach, but no coach will ever make everyone happy. Coaches are under a high level of scrutiny!

One last thing that might help people understand something. Coaches do have favorites! Everyone on earth has favorites. I always had favorites and I would tell the team that early on! It certainly had nothing to do with brown nosing. Some of my favorites were star players and some spent most of their time on the bench. It’s not difficult to be among the favorites. In fact, a player didn’t need to do anything other than work hard, learn, respect the game, and be part of a team. You actually had to do something to be a non favorite! And I will admit, that sometimes it was the parents who helped do that for their son.

None of this is directed at anyone posting here. I know every situation is different.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Scenario

You are 0-8 with seniors? What do you do?

The seniors had their shot. It's time to move on with better prospects for the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Scenario

You are 0-8 with seniors? What do you do?

At that point you start giving some younger players an opportunity if the seniors aren't getting it done. However it doesn't mean the seniors shouldn't get the nod until he proves he can't get the job done. There is that difference.