Mr. Shepster,
I may not know a whole lot about this adviser business, but I do consider myself a fairly decent businessperson. Your comments on here don't strike me as particularly good business. Among other things you don't have an important clients phone number with you. Sir, my three year old cell phone has nearly every clients phone number from the past five years at least. It is with me all the time. Frankly if I were baseballpapa I would be somewhat appalled that you need to post a comment on here to ask me, your customer, to call you. That sound both arrogant and lazy. I would be embarrassed to run my business that way.
You stated, "Many other families and potential prospects are affected by how I handle these issues with others when they arise" in your last comments. Well my family happens to fit that description, but I am not impressed with your behavior here and have made a note to beware if your company comes calling.
Good day Sir.
I'm still here wayback on the right coast and could probably be better served demonstrating the level of instruction that comes with the Shepster package. Appreciate the Encouragement WayBack. Maybe we can rekindle some old discussions on Rotational vs Linear hitting mechanics over the holidays.
Will talk soon, Shep
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
Shep:quote:No harm or ill-intent intended at all, I was being serious in wishing our boys the best.
Shep I believe you.
But let me explain something that everybody can understand.
You will not see me use this site as a way of self promoting my Son are any other Baseball Product.
In Fact I do not want my Son associated with any thing that the EH might say are do that could offend anybody.
That's why I try to keep as Anonymous as possible.
I try to use this site for fun and communication with some great baseball people.
Some we all know some we have not a clue?
It's a great place for Info.
And we can all learn something if we just Listen. EH
Shep,
EH is trying to help you. It might be better to communicate with potential clients some other way besides a public message board. There are certain confidentiality issues that affect players. Nobody needs to know who your firm is attracting. I certainly don't need to know. From my experience, scouts and advisors don't show their cards to everyone, but regard their clients or employers interests as their own. jmo
Dad04
I know that sometime's when the Banter start's, It's hard not to get caught up in it.
I like to protect myself also.
Not alway's the best thing to do?
I get my feeling's hurt, and want to say something.
But sometime's I just dig a bigger hole.
I should quit while i'm ahead.
I should go Mow the yard like She said,
But the second half of the OSU vs. Mich.
Game is coming back on. EH
quote:There are certain confidentiality issues that affect players. Nobody needs to know who your firm is attracting.
I know that sometime's when the Banter start's, It's hard not to get caught up in it.
I like to protect myself also.
Not alway's the best thing to do?
I get my feeling's hurt, and want to say something.
But sometime's I just dig a bigger hole.
I should quit while i'm ahead.
I should go Mow the yard like She said,
But the second half of the OSU vs. Mich.
Game is coming back on. EH
Quote by TPM>I'd like to know, who deleted most of the thread and why it jumps from August to November.
FYI, the thread was locked a few days ago, to avoid further discussion. Whoever unlocked it, should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Although ,most likely done in the best interest of everyone, still seems that we have the same thing going on, just gone about a different way.
GO TIGERS!
I think you have your threads confused TPM. Just thought you would like to know. Shep
FYI, the thread was locked a few days ago, to avoid further discussion. Whoever unlocked it, should have let sleeping dogs lie.
Although ,most likely done in the best interest of everyone, still seems that we have the same thing going on, just gone about a different way.
GO TIGERS!
I think you have your threads confused TPM. Just thought you would like to know. Shep
Interesting.
I see that another thread was brought back to top, and I did mistake it for this thread.
This thread was locked a few days ago, should have been left that way. JMO.
I'll leave it at that.
I see that another thread was brought back to top, and I did mistake it for this thread.
This thread was locked a few days ago, should have been left that way. JMO.
I'll leave it at that.
Got to get back to the stove in the kitchen. We are having boiled lobster and orange chicken prepared by Shepster the Chefster
Shep
TPM, Maybe thing's needed to be aired out.
And everybody can get back to a good baseball discussion.
OK?
EH.
And everybody can get back to a good baseball discussion.
OK?
EH.
In summary (and back on topic)...
Get someone you can trust. Don't listen to those who say you don't need advice.
Get advice from all of these posters, this is the best collection of baseball minds anywhere.
Research some of the older threads. There is really good advice in them.
Important though, and brought up by many. I am not a customer, there is no contract, loose or firm, I and my son (not just my son) are in a nonlegal relationship. There is no representation, just advice. To be honest I get advice from many in and out of the business.
This is a great website. I've learned a lot from everyones' perspectives.
Get someone you can trust. Don't listen to those who say you don't need advice.
Get advice from all of these posters, this is the best collection of baseball minds anywhere.
Research some of the older threads. There is really good advice in them.
Important though, and brought up by many. I am not a customer, there is no contract, loose or firm, I and my son (not just my son) are in a nonlegal relationship. There is no representation, just advice. To be honest I get advice from many in and out of the business.
This is a great website. I've learned a lot from everyones' perspectives.
baseballpapa,
Best of luck to your son. Sure I'm not alone on here in hoping things work out great for him in the future. Sounds like he's off to a great start!
Best of luck to your son. Sure I'm not alone on here in hoping things work out great for him in the future. Sounds like he's off to a great start!
bbpp.
That's right everybody's perspective.
I'm just not that sure how Complicated the process is??
I've bought and sold houses, Without a real estate Advisor.
And I've never had a Lawyer look at the contract.
Does that mean I know everything about real estate.
Not hardly.
If I was buying and selling Estate's that where beyond my Knowledge( out of my element ) then I would have an Advisor/Agent. Lawyer to cover my A$$est's.
EH
quote:This is a great website. I've learned a lot from everyones' perspectives.
That's right everybody's perspective.
I'm just not that sure how Complicated the process is??
I've bought and sold houses, Without a real estate Advisor.
And I've never had a Lawyer look at the contract.
Does that mean I know everything about real estate.
Not hardly.
If I was buying and selling Estate's that where beyond my Knowledge( out of my element ) then I would have an Advisor/Agent. Lawyer to cover my A$$est's.
EH
I'm just curious...could some of you list your top-3 attributes you'd look for in an advisor?
Next question, is it important that you like him/them?
And last question, are different advisors better at different situations? I.E. A 1st round pick may want one kind of advisor...and 3rd-5th round pick a different kind...and a 6th-10th round pick yet another kind? I could see that as a possibility.
Next question, is it important that you like him/them?
And last question, are different advisors better at different situations? I.E. A 1st round pick may want one kind of advisor...and 3rd-5th round pick a different kind...and a 6th-10th round pick yet another kind? I could see that as a possibility.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
I'm just curious...could some of you list your top-3 attributes you'd look for in an advisor?
Fiduciary Responsibility is something I value.
jbb, good post.
Your right, what one advisor could do for a 1st rounder,
Might hender a 5th or 6th rd. pick.
If you where a 25th rd. pick would you have Scott Boras in your corner??
And would he be able to help you are scare Club's away??
EH
Your right, what one advisor could do for a 1st rounder,
Might hender a 5th or 6th rd. pick.
If you where a 25th rd. pick would you have Scott Boras in your corner??
And would he be able to help you are scare Club's away??
EH
Fiduciary??
Trust me.
I had to look it up.
That's me a good hand shake and a done deal.
EH
Trust me.
I had to look it up.
That's me a good hand shake and a done deal.
EH
Hand shake done deals are fine. Can we just put it on paper, sign, notarize and record it at the court house, in case we both forget, or I get hit by a bus? Then, I don't need anyone else to know about it but do need my advisor working in my best interest.
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:
Got to get back to the stove in the kitchen. We are having boiled lobster and orange chicken prepared by Shepster the Chefster
***I prepared garlic crusted broiled lobster with ribeye and sauteed mushrooms and onions on the side***
JBB,
I am not really sure as I did not choose the advisor, son did.
He was recommended highly by son's college coaches, as they felt it was someone who he could trust and someone who would be beneficial for him IF he was drafted. So for him, I suppose that was it. Plus, they have had many conversations regarding the importance of the end result, which is not just to get drafted, get some money. It's about becoming a part of the system, how it works and what you have to do to get there. The emphasis is on the player and what he can do for himself as an amateur trying to become a professional. The conversation is not about what the advisor can do for him, because the player HAS to get there first, on his own. As an FYI, son spoke to advisor in HS for advice, but he was advised as a potential 6-10 pick, he would not become his agent. I thought this was rather picky at the time, but I understand that now.
Recently in conversation with him, I felt that he knew son extremely well, just as well as his coaches, so that was what was important to us.
He also represents only a few each year in the draft and we all liked that as well.
If son feels comfortable with all of the above, that's ok with us.
We all like the fact that son (or we) can choose an advisor for son. But in many instances, the advisor most likely is going to choose you as his client. Somewhere I read something about a comment made by Boras, that he gets 1000's of letters a year from parents asking them to advise their son. But he doesn't work that way. He picks and chooses who he wants. He can do that.
Some top companies will not advise or become agents for many HS players unless they are going to be first,second round picks. They will follow them though as college or minor league players and if they feel they have potential for MLB they will seek their business. The best advisor/agent who might be son's agent someday,IMO,is someone who will not make him money through the draft but later on, years down the road perhaps. In other words, the advisor/agent should be more concerned with your long term development, not just the draft, because in the end he will make more $$ from you as a MLB player.
JMO, we told son to stay away from anyone that promised him that he can get him lots of money, because that's not determined until after draft time. I also know that it's great to hear great things about one's son, but an advisor can't tell you what round you are going to fall in (not unless you are top prospect). He can though, right before the draft sit down with you to discuss the possibilities of pre draft scouting reports and their implications.
I think that, just like the recruiting process, everyone's situation is different and needs to be approached as such.
Some of this is personal information, but I feel it is important for parents to do their homework, just like you would for recruiting. This might be one of the most important decisions in your son's life.
I am not really sure as I did not choose the advisor, son did.
He was recommended highly by son's college coaches, as they felt it was someone who he could trust and someone who would be beneficial for him IF he was drafted. So for him, I suppose that was it. Plus, they have had many conversations regarding the importance of the end result, which is not just to get drafted, get some money. It's about becoming a part of the system, how it works and what you have to do to get there. The emphasis is on the player and what he can do for himself as an amateur trying to become a professional. The conversation is not about what the advisor can do for him, because the player HAS to get there first, on his own. As an FYI, son spoke to advisor in HS for advice, but he was advised as a potential 6-10 pick, he would not become his agent. I thought this was rather picky at the time, but I understand that now.
Recently in conversation with him, I felt that he knew son extremely well, just as well as his coaches, so that was what was important to us.
He also represents only a few each year in the draft and we all liked that as well.
If son feels comfortable with all of the above, that's ok with us.
We all like the fact that son (or we) can choose an advisor for son. But in many instances, the advisor most likely is going to choose you as his client. Somewhere I read something about a comment made by Boras, that he gets 1000's of letters a year from parents asking them to advise their son. But he doesn't work that way. He picks and chooses who he wants. He can do that.
Some top companies will not advise or become agents for many HS players unless they are going to be first,second round picks. They will follow them though as college or minor league players and if they feel they have potential for MLB they will seek their business. The best advisor/agent who might be son's agent someday,IMO,is someone who will not make him money through the draft but later on, years down the road perhaps. In other words, the advisor/agent should be more concerned with your long term development, not just the draft, because in the end he will make more $$ from you as a MLB player.
JMO, we told son to stay away from anyone that promised him that he can get him lots of money, because that's not determined until after draft time. I also know that it's great to hear great things about one's son, but an advisor can't tell you what round you are going to fall in (not unless you are top prospect). He can though, right before the draft sit down with you to discuss the possibilities of pre draft scouting reports and their implications.
I think that, just like the recruiting process, everyone's situation is different and needs to be approached as such.
Some of this is personal information, but I feel it is important for parents to do their homework, just like you would for recruiting. This might be one of the most important decisions in your son's life.
being the off season with spare time on your hands. read the book (a licence to deal). i think written by jerry crasnick.you wonder why any one wants to be an agent/advisor.
sons advisor/agent happens to be a dad of one of his friends he played ball with.and a family friend.who happened to be an agent.friend first.thinks about my son as if he was his son.and lord knows it's not because of the money.
trust,most important thing.the only thing we have to give,that really belongs to us.is our word .if that's no good?well you know. buy the book it's a good read.
sons advisor/agent happens to be a dad of one of his friends he played ball with.and a family friend.who happened to be an agent.friend first.thinks about my son as if he was his son.and lord knows it's not because of the money.
trust,most important thing.the only thing we have to give,that really belongs to us.is our word .if that's no good?well you know. buy the book it's a good read.
That book is about the sleazy side of the business.
I agree with you, why anyone would want to be in that business is beyond me, oh wait, I forgot, lots of BIG MONEY to be made!
I agree with you, why anyone would want to be in that business is beyond me, oh wait, I forgot, lots of BIG MONEY to be made!
tpm
you are right,but it's the possability of money.kind of like gambling.
i think behind the scenes it can be a somewhat sleazy business?now i don't meen everyone is sleazy.just that sleazy things happen. hopefully behind the scenes enough it doesn't effect the players.just my take on things.
and congrats to josh faiola,what a great start.
you are right,but it's the possability of money.kind of like gambling.
i think behind the scenes it can be a somewhat sleazy business?now i don't meen everyone is sleazy.just that sleazy things happen. hopefully behind the scenes enough it doesn't effect the players.just my take on things.
and congrats to josh faiola,what a great start.
The top 3 attributes our son looked for in an advisor/agent were...
1. Integrity. Did the guy and his agency have a track record of honesty, values, character? Did references back that up?
2. Experience. Did he have a good relationship with GM's, scouting directors, etc? Had he successfully negotiated MLB contracts and not just draft deals? Did he understand the ins and outs of MLB?
3. Support. Did he believe in our son's talent and future in MLB? Would he be there for the long haul, through the best and the worst of times. Did references back that up?
1. Integrity. Did the guy and his agency have a track record of honesty, values, character? Did references back that up?
2. Experience. Did he have a good relationship with GM's, scouting directors, etc? Had he successfully negotiated MLB contracts and not just draft deals? Did he understand the ins and outs of MLB?
3. Support. Did he believe in our son's talent and future in MLB? Would he be there for the long haul, through the best and the worst of times. Did references back that up?
The moms make this thread. Excellent posts TPM and TxMom!!
Great post TxMom. I especially like #3.
WOW!!! Just logged on and saw where I opened up a can of worms. Thanks TPM, Julie and others for having my back even though I started it. Sometimes when things (to use a safe word) happen, the only way some people respond is by getting personal. Sorry I baited you Shepster.
As for my son, I don't know if you know his agent or not. He's out of CA and they met when Josh played at the Cape. Josh is currently rehabbing after being diagnosed with shoulder impingement when he was at fall instructs. Hopefully he will get healthy again and continue his dream.
Glad we're getting somewhat back on topic.
Getting drafted as low as he was, his agent isn't getting a penny from him, yet see's something in him that he continues to work for him. Not sure how "lucrative" his equipment deal is, but for a senior sign 24th rounder, it ain't bad. I agree with TxMom's list and obviously #3.
As for my son, I don't know if you know his agent or not. He's out of CA and they met when Josh played at the Cape. Josh is currently rehabbing after being diagnosed with shoulder impingement when he was at fall instructs. Hopefully he will get healthy again and continue his dream.
Glad we're getting somewhat back on topic.
Getting drafted as low as he was, his agent isn't getting a penny from him, yet see's something in him that he continues to work for him. Not sure how "lucrative" his equipment deal is, but for a senior sign 24th rounder, it ain't bad. I agree with TxMom's list and obviously #3.
No biggie Frank It's not the first time I've taken the bait here 
peace
It's not the first time I've taken the bait here
TPM,
I agree with what you said… Most always the advisor finds the player, rather than the other way around. Unfortunately some contact players they’ve never seen play. I know one advisor that tried hard to get a player that he never seen play. This (agent/advisor) never told the player he had never seen him play. He actually used our reports to talk about what he liked about the player and where he saw him play. It was all sales BS!
I know because I caught him with a few simple questions. You know… What did you think of the wind blowing that day? He said… yea it was howling! Truth is there was absolutely no wind that day, but it did rain off an on all day. I asked him if he saw another player (good well known prospect) that day in the same game? Of course he said yes, and something about how good that player is. Well… that player was not at that event let alone in that game. Finally I said, listen why not just tell the truth, you weren’t there were you? Have you ever seen him play? He told me he had not seen the player play, but his firm had some good reports.
I had a small debate with someone (agent) on here about whether actually seeing the player was an important detail. He seemed to think that was not very important. His argument was that the player’s value to others is what’s most important. He doesn’t need to see the player to serve his best interests. (or something like that)
No matter what someone might think about all that, it IS important that the advisor is honest with you. In the case above… he was NOT!
For someone to understand the importance of honesty, loyalty, integrity, etc involved in this business… One has to understand the deals that are sometimes made. Some of these deals can be complete sell outs of clients in favor of sweeter deals elsewhere. I won’t get into that, but do believe that it has and will continue to happen.
Now THAT is some GREAT advice TxMom! These are absolutely the most important things. It’s pretty much what I tell parents and players when they ask. I think I’ll just copy your post and tell them that from now on!
Number one… Is number one… Without it… You’ll never know about number three until it is too late!
Funny thing is… the same attributes are important in the player! “Loyalty” is perhaps one word we could add to TxMom’s post. Actually number three is all about loyalty. Loyalty is a diminishing trait in professional baseball. When someone sees it, you tend to really appreciate it!
I agree with what you said… Most always the advisor finds the player, rather than the other way around. Unfortunately some contact players they’ve never seen play. I know one advisor that tried hard to get a player that he never seen play. This (agent/advisor) never told the player he had never seen him play. He actually used our reports to talk about what he liked about the player and where he saw him play. It was all sales BS!
I know because I caught him with a few simple questions. You know… What did you think of the wind blowing that day? He said… yea it was howling! Truth is there was absolutely no wind that day, but it did rain off an on all day. I asked him if he saw another player (good well known prospect) that day in the same game? Of course he said yes, and something about how good that player is. Well… that player was not at that event let alone in that game. Finally I said, listen why not just tell the truth, you weren’t there were you? Have you ever seen him play? He told me he had not seen the player play, but his firm had some good reports.
I had a small debate with someone (agent) on here about whether actually seeing the player was an important detail. He seemed to think that was not very important. His argument was that the player’s value to others is what’s most important. He doesn’t need to see the player to serve his best interests. (or something like that)
No matter what someone might think about all that, it IS important that the advisor is honest with you. In the case above… he was NOT!
For someone to understand the importance of honesty, loyalty, integrity, etc involved in this business… One has to understand the deals that are sometimes made. Some of these deals can be complete sell outs of clients in favor of sweeter deals elsewhere. I won’t get into that, but do believe that it has and will continue to happen.
quote:Posted By TxMom
The top 3 attributes our son looked for in an advisor/agent were...
1. Integrity. Did the guy and his agency have a track record of honesty, values, character? Did references back that up?
2. Experience. Did he have a good relationship with GM's, scouting directors, etc? Had he successfully negotiated MLB contracts and not just draft deals? Did he understand the ins and outs of MLB?
3. Support. Did he believe in our son's talent and future in MLB? Would he be there for the long haul, through the best and the worst of times. Did references back that up?
Now THAT is some GREAT advice TxMom! These are absolutely the most important things. It’s pretty much what I tell parents and players when they ask. I think I’ll just copy your post and tell them that from now on!
Number one… Is number one… Without it… You’ll never know about number three until it is too late!
Funny thing is… the same attributes are important in the player! “Loyalty” is perhaps one word we could add to TxMom’s post. Actually number three is all about loyalty. Loyalty is a diminishing trait in professional baseball. When someone sees it, you tend to really appreciate it!
PG...
I like the word "loyalty" so much better than "support" because it better defines the commitment needed for a strong relationship.
Thanks!
I like the word "loyalty" so much better than "support" because it better defines the commitment needed for a strong relationship.
Thanks!
quote:Some of these deals can be complete sell outs of clients in favor of sweeter deals elsewhere.
I never thought about this. It is kind of scary to think about.
PG,
That's a real interesting story, sort of like the college coach who signs up a player without seeing him play. JMO.
I think that loyalty and trust is 2 sided. Prospects like to look for an advisor/agent that they trust and advisors/agents are looking for individuals that will not run off someday to the next guy, provided that they are doing all they can for the player.
That's a real interesting story, sort of like the college coach who signs up a player without seeing him play. JMO.
I think that loyalty and trust is 2 sided. Prospects like to look for an advisor/agent that they trust and advisors/agents are looking for individuals that will not run off someday to the next guy, provided that they are doing all they can for the player.
Tiger Paw Mom and others;
The selection of an agent [advisor] is a major decision for a family without experience in dealing with the professionals and semi-professionals in the agent business.
The large firms have specialty "sales" type young man who can convince the client [player] that their firm will do everything that is necessary. Once a family has entered the 2nd phase of this "courtship" then the real fun begins.
A plan is developed with contingencies for
the draft position and for the specific MLB team which drafts the amateur. In my opinion, the ML team should introduce the player to the minor league instructors.
We have several former Goodwill Series players and coach, who are now agents and from my experience with these agents they were and still are gentleman. I respect their decision to enter this profession and have discussed the agency business the "good and bad". It is no different than any other business, if your eyes are "wide open".
"It is a service business"
Bob Williams
The selection of an agent [advisor] is a major decision for a family without experience in dealing with the professionals and semi-professionals in the agent business.
The large firms have specialty "sales" type young man who can convince the client [player] that their firm will do everything that is necessary. Once a family has entered the 2nd phase of this "courtship" then the real fun begins.
A plan is developed with contingencies for
the draft position and for the specific MLB team which drafts the amateur. In my opinion, the ML team should introduce the player to the minor league instructors.
We have several former Goodwill Series players and coach, who are now agents and from my experience with these agents they were and still are gentleman. I respect their decision to enter this profession and have discussed the agency business the "good and bad". It is no different than any other business, if your eyes are "wide open".
"It is a service business"
Bob Williams
Go USA Go!