Another piece of information, Eric was not the only player from DBCC given that option. How come that's not mentioned.
DBCC coach and Sully have known each other for years. If the players were so upset, wouldn't they have gone back to their JUCO coach for support?
And I agree with FBM, if this occured in the beginning of July why is it brought out now?
BTW, if you click on the link, the article can no longer be found. How come? If this was all true, that's surpressing news. Maybe it all wasn't so accurate.
For all you folks who are upset. If your son had a roster spot given by the former coach and he was cut because of a 44 man roster, YET, a new player arrived to take his place, how would you feel. These players had not yet set foot on campus. If an incoming coach has to abide by NCAA rules and cut back on roster size, who should be cut first?
What's your opinion?
It's an unfortunate situation, but if the former coaches did a better job at recruiting and developing their team, maybe they would still have their jobs and this would not be happening.
Why are you blaming someone who walked into a hornets nest?
I know for a fact, that when the NCAA came down on their new rules, during season, while still at Clemson Sully took time off to see each and every new player entering in 2007 and verbally committed for 2008 to explain what was going on. It wasn't about roster size (Clemson has 35) it was about new scholarship rules.
Those who really liked the new 25% scholarship limit are now seeing what all this will mean.
Blame the NCAA, and coaches who over recruited, not the ones who have to pick up the pieces.
I would like to know how many of those entering in 2007 and those committed for 2008 heard from their son's new coaches without making the phone call first.
It's hard to know what to believe. But, because the high school coach had his own kid involved, I tend to think Sully's story is more believable. And when I read the first article a 2nd time things just didn't add up. It was weird.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Once again not to cause more controversy, but that sounds a lot more like the Kevin O'Sullivan we know.
He has helped a lot of kids over the years who did not end up at Clemson. He is also one of the best talent evaluators in the business.
There is a webster here who asked me for Sully's new address when he became the new head coach. Sully told him when teh time came he would help him with the recruiting process.
Besides being a bit close to home, there are some folks here whose sons play for the program and some who want to attend the program. The article was not good for business.
I do think that UF bears the brunt of the responsibility for the situation by allowing the previous staff to operate w/XXL rosters. Their 3rd person response by the SID & PR staff was interesting & pretty slick as well.
O'Sullivan's recruiting record & roster size history speaks volumes for his ability to run a quality program and not stockpile.
But these discussions do have value & the credibility of this site would be diminished if we limited ourselves only to topics that are "good for business"
O'Sullivan's recruiting record & roster size history speaks volumes for his ability to run a quality program and not stockpile.
But these discussions do have value & the credibility of this site would be diminished if we limited ourselves only to topics that are "good for business"
Hear, hear!
.
Related questions I have:
With the APR requirements..
"Trimming" scholarship players from rosters has the potential to wreck havoc with program APR #'s?
Would this also apply to previously rostered but non-scholarship players?
44
.
Related questions I have:
With the APR requirements..
"Trimming" scholarship players from rosters has the potential to wreck havoc with program APR #'s?
Would this also apply to previously rostered but non-scholarship players?
44.
I've been following this story and weighing the fallout potential for the past couple of days. Like many others here, I was appalled at the first story, printed in the local paper in Gainesville. But I was certain there was much more to the story. I'm grateful to the UAA of UF for issuing a statement on the article to help clear things a bit. While it does nothing to change the realities of D-1 baseball as a business (...cuts, transfers, coaching changes, etc...) it settles the tremors of uncertainty for the new direction of the Gator baseball program which have arisen through this story.
I choose to believe the best in people, and I can't imagine how two accounts of these events could be so wildly different. I do feel for this coach/father and hope he finds closure with his son's move to another school. I also hope this first volley at Sully (for there are certain to be more if he fosters success in the program) does not deter him from his goals or hinder his progress.
Coach Mac is firmly entrenched among the top 10-15 men I have met in my life with regard to class and integrity. I am grateful to have had the opportunity to meet and chat with him, and follow his work at UF. While I will miss him, I acknowledge that the UF baseball program is moving on without him. All the best to Coach Mac, Coach Jones and Coach Parenton.
I have been cautiously optimistic about the coaching changes since they were announced in June because I do have a dog in this hunt. My son is one of the 44. He is one of 8 currently rostered catchers on the team. Those numbers (44 and 8) never made sense to me, but were simply part of the path my son chose. It was apparent that changes were coming. I am personally glad that this picture is being adjusted (...or corrected if that's your preferred position...). Although my wife and I have worried from time to time about the numbers on the roster and cuts being implemented, my son has embraced both. He's a firm believer in competition and its honing effect on one's abilities and concentration. "Iron sharpens iron".
I am very pleased with all I've seen and heard (second hand, through my son) regarding the new coaching staff. Genius #1 dropped in to meet them for the first time last week after his return from the Cape. Though he'd spoken with Sully a number of times through the summer, that first meeting, though brief and unscheduled, was quite positive. There is reportedly a great enthusiasm and optimism in the locker room among the players. ...and the coaches and staff. My son likes what he sees and hears so far from Coach Sully and his assistants. ...and the opportunity to be a part of helping the program achieve a higher level of accomplishment and respect in the state, and beyond, is a challenge he welcomes.
I am not wise enough to grasp all the implications of the pending NCAA rules changes. Certainly, the published intent of improving college athletics will have ripples of negative effects as well, at least in the short term. At the very least, there will be growing pains. Hopefully, the net effect of these changes will indeed be positive for baseball (...jury's still out...), and for the overall physical and character development of our sons. Ultimately, isn't what we want for our children? ...personal growth and development, and emergence outside the nest as men of integrity and determination. Baseball is a path to that goal. ...one of many. ...and college baseball is a step along the path. We all need to keep our eye on that goal and not get lost in the emotion of the moment. ...from the central players in this story, to us, the web posters with opinions.
Good luck Coach O'Sullivan.
Go Gators
I choose to believe the best in people, and I can't imagine how two accounts of these events could be so wildly different. I do feel for this coach/father and hope he finds closure with his son's move to another school. I also hope this first volley at Sully (for there are certain to be more if he fosters success in the program) does not deter him from his goals or hinder his progress.
Coach Mac is firmly entrenched among the top 10-15 men I have met in my life with regard to class and integrity. I am grateful to have had the opportunity to meet and chat with him, and follow his work at UF. While I will miss him, I acknowledge that the UF baseball program is moving on without him. All the best to Coach Mac, Coach Jones and Coach Parenton.
I have been cautiously optimistic about the coaching changes since they were announced in June because I do have a dog in this hunt. My son is one of the 44. He is one of 8 currently rostered catchers on the team. Those numbers (44 and 8) never made sense to me, but were simply part of the path my son chose. It was apparent that changes were coming. I am personally glad that this picture is being adjusted (...or corrected if that's your preferred position...). Although my wife and I have worried from time to time about the numbers on the roster and cuts being implemented, my son has embraced both. He's a firm believer in competition and its honing effect on one's abilities and concentration. "Iron sharpens iron".
I am very pleased with all I've seen and heard (second hand, through my son) regarding the new coaching staff. Genius #1 dropped in to meet them for the first time last week after his return from the Cape. Though he'd spoken with Sully a number of times through the summer, that first meeting, though brief and unscheduled, was quite positive. There is reportedly a great enthusiasm and optimism in the locker room among the players. ...and the coaches and staff. My son likes what he sees and hears so far from Coach Sully and his assistants. ...and the opportunity to be a part of helping the program achieve a higher level of accomplishment and respect in the state, and beyond, is a challenge he welcomes.
I am not wise enough to grasp all the implications of the pending NCAA rules changes. Certainly, the published intent of improving college athletics will have ripples of negative effects as well, at least in the short term. At the very least, there will be growing pains. Hopefully, the net effect of these changes will indeed be positive for baseball (...jury's still out...), and for the overall physical and character development of our sons. Ultimately, isn't what we want for our children? ...personal growth and development, and emergence outside the nest as men of integrity and determination. Baseball is a path to that goal. ...one of many. ...and college baseball is a step along the path. We all need to keep our eye on that goal and not get lost in the emotion of the moment. ...from the central players in this story, to us, the web posters with opinions.
Good luck Coach O'Sullivan.
Go Gators
BEE I agree The intent wasn't an attack on SULLY but the system and current rules that don't put academics first. The process incourages transfering and school hopping and how we need to keep pushing to make it better for all the athletes not just the draftable studs.
My thoughts, if I may:
I am not taking sides here:
What I see is still some LL/HS thinking on the parents part---college baseball is a business--I have had three of my own boys play college baseball and all with varying end results---regardless of the end result it made them better and stronger young adults ready to enter the "real" world--- they learned to be "TUFF"
If a boy wants to be part of a 8 catcher situation that is his choice--if he is comfortable with it, so be it---perhaps he thinks he can beat out the other 7 players---great attitude in my mind--I like those kind of players
Cuts and culling happen in college baseball especially when a new coach enters upon the scene. Every coach wants his "type" of player there---perhaps the kids in place upon his arrival do not meet his "game plan" ---some coaches want speed other want thunder in the lineup
I only know "Sully" by reputation, and it is a good one, and I think he will do fine---he has been a winner everywhere he has been and--- will be at UF as well---a coach has to do what he has to do to be a winner and keep his job---apparently the UF administrators are backing him which tells me something
Folks just sit back and relax---it will all come out fine in the end
I am not taking sides here:
What I see is still some LL/HS thinking on the parents part---college baseball is a business--I have had three of my own boys play college baseball and all with varying end results---regardless of the end result it made them better and stronger young adults ready to enter the "real" world--- they learned to be "TUFF"
If a boy wants to be part of a 8 catcher situation that is his choice--if he is comfortable with it, so be it---perhaps he thinks he can beat out the other 7 players---great attitude in my mind--I like those kind of players
Cuts and culling happen in college baseball especially when a new coach enters upon the scene. Every coach wants his "type" of player there---perhaps the kids in place upon his arrival do not meet his "game plan" ---some coaches want speed other want thunder in the lineup
I only know "Sully" by reputation, and it is a good one, and I think he will do fine---he has been a winner everywhere he has been and--- will be at UF as well---a coach has to do what he has to do to be a winner and keep his job---apparently the UF administrators are backing him which tells me something
Folks just sit back and relax---it will all come out fine in the end
Students should have the option and right to change schools and not lose eligibility for a year.
It is bad enough that most transfers cost credits that the new school may not accept.
Whatever reason the student athlete uses to make his/her decision to change schools should be all that is required and accepted for the transfer with no athletic penalty.
The one year loss of eligibility for the transfer student plays into the hands of poor coaches.
Can you see the effect that 'cleaning house' as at some other schools will have under the new rule?
It is bad enough that most transfers cost credits that the new school may not accept.
Whatever reason the student athlete uses to make his/her decision to change schools should be all that is required and accepted for the transfer with no athletic penalty.
The one year loss of eligibility for the transfer student plays into the hands of poor coaches.
Can you see the effect that 'cleaning house' as at some other schools will have under the new rule?
I had a chance to speak with Sully last night about the weeks events.
The meeting occurred back in July and the story was written out of context. I told him about the discussion going on here. He asked that I try to explain that it was just an unfortunate turn of events that occured.
The visit, unannounced, was an intent of the coach to speak to Sully regarding his son. Nothing more. Being a 3 year player who never played, his scholarship was NOT going to be cut, but Sully could not promise that he would grant the fifth year, due to large roster size and new NCAA regulations. With this explained and why, the coach was not happy. Also, his name was mistaken once, an apology was made, but after being spoken to as he was, by calling the coach Bill, a point was being made, as he was repeatedly being spoken to as if he were possibly an idiot (which he is not) And he did not mistake who his son was. The discussion about the other player (which, IMO, actually was none of the coaches business) occurred after the coach became upset. The article was poorly written and details not followed in order of events that took place.
Sully helped Smith to secure a scholarship at Samford and was thanked for his helped. This way, he was assured that he could use all of his eligibilty. He had no idea of the impending article until Monday and was asked by the SID not to comment. The story broke the day UF resumed classes. I do beleive (though not actually told) the SID felt that they did not need to be any comments made (hence no comment from the Head Coach) but after The AD read the article they felt that some clarification needed to be made and there was never any ill intent made towards any player or person, unlike the article.
BTW, cuts were not made because they were not his type of players, cuts were made because there had to be. Each player was explained in detail that if adjustments were not made now before the deadline, and they wished to transfer, they would need to sit out a year. With that, decisions were made to leave the program and with his help and the help of the DBCC players were helped in finding schools where they would most likely be successful.
He has been very distraught over the incident. Trying to develop a relationship with his players, a new team, new bosses under unusual circumstances (trimming a roster and compliance with NCAA), new fan base, the feeling being on UF's part, IMO,is that this article might have been intended to sideline good intentions.
IMO, and this is my opinion, seems to me a HS coach who has enjoyed many years of trying to be an influence in the UF program, no longer has the ability to try to manipulate a younger coach. And for the record that is my opinion.
A few months ago something was posted regarding another coach and immediately deleted. My concern over this topic, was that I knew that there were parents here whose son would be working under a new coach and there are some who wish to someday work under him. This puts the program, who have obviously made mistakes along the way and trying to get back on track, in a bad light.
I agree 100% with what TR has said. Those of you with opinions regarding what transpired are thinking in the LL/HS mode, college baseball is a business. And most importantly, if the administration is backing 100% that is a postitive sign the program is moving in a right direction.
On a positive note, Sully beleives even being in one of the toughest confereneces in the country, and what he sees so far from the players, UF baseball program will be ale to pull itself back into the competition and be able to participate once again year after year in NCAA playoffs, as this is the goal and should be for every major D1 program.
The NCAA does not allow other atheletes in other sports to tranfer without a sit out year. It was granted in baseball, due to large roster sizes and limited scholarships. This was an abuse on both parts, player and programs. In trying to get things back in line, improve APR which gets hurt when students transfer, most college coaches feel this is a step in the right direction towards balance in college baseball. The only major issue they had was how to spend their money. Most coaches are happy with the blending of 25%, I think these changes will be here for a long time. Eventually, there may be special circumstance rules placed into effect.
You all need to understand how the system works, go with the flow and help to find the right program where your son will flourish and be happy, in all aspects not just baseball. If you take the negative approach, you will only get negative results.
JMO.
The meeting occurred back in July and the story was written out of context. I told him about the discussion going on here. He asked that I try to explain that it was just an unfortunate turn of events that occured.
The visit, unannounced, was an intent of the coach to speak to Sully regarding his son. Nothing more. Being a 3 year player who never played, his scholarship was NOT going to be cut, but Sully could not promise that he would grant the fifth year, due to large roster size and new NCAA regulations. With this explained and why, the coach was not happy. Also, his name was mistaken once, an apology was made, but after being spoken to as he was, by calling the coach Bill, a point was being made, as he was repeatedly being spoken to as if he were possibly an idiot (which he is not) And he did not mistake who his son was. The discussion about the other player (which, IMO, actually was none of the coaches business) occurred after the coach became upset. The article was poorly written and details not followed in order of events that took place.
Sully helped Smith to secure a scholarship at Samford and was thanked for his helped. This way, he was assured that he could use all of his eligibilty. He had no idea of the impending article until Monday and was asked by the SID not to comment. The story broke the day UF resumed classes. I do beleive (though not actually told) the SID felt that they did not need to be any comments made (hence no comment from the Head Coach) but after The AD read the article they felt that some clarification needed to be made and there was never any ill intent made towards any player or person, unlike the article.
BTW, cuts were not made because they were not his type of players, cuts were made because there had to be. Each player was explained in detail that if adjustments were not made now before the deadline, and they wished to transfer, they would need to sit out a year. With that, decisions were made to leave the program and with his help and the help of the DBCC players were helped in finding schools where they would most likely be successful.
He has been very distraught over the incident. Trying to develop a relationship with his players, a new team, new bosses under unusual circumstances (trimming a roster and compliance with NCAA), new fan base, the feeling being on UF's part, IMO,is that this article might have been intended to sideline good intentions.
IMO, and this is my opinion, seems to me a HS coach who has enjoyed many years of trying to be an influence in the UF program, no longer has the ability to try to manipulate a younger coach. And for the record that is my opinion.
A few months ago something was posted regarding another coach and immediately deleted. My concern over this topic, was that I knew that there were parents here whose son would be working under a new coach and there are some who wish to someday work under him. This puts the program, who have obviously made mistakes along the way and trying to get back on track, in a bad light.
I agree 100% with what TR has said. Those of you with opinions regarding what transpired are thinking in the LL/HS mode, college baseball is a business. And most importantly, if the administration is backing 100% that is a postitive sign the program is moving in a right direction.
On a positive note, Sully beleives even being in one of the toughest confereneces in the country, and what he sees so far from the players, UF baseball program will be ale to pull itself back into the competition and be able to participate once again year after year in NCAA playoffs, as this is the goal and should be for every major D1 program.
The NCAA does not allow other atheletes in other sports to tranfer without a sit out year. It was granted in baseball, due to large roster sizes and limited scholarships. This was an abuse on both parts, player and programs. In trying to get things back in line, improve APR which gets hurt when students transfer, most college coaches feel this is a step in the right direction towards balance in college baseball. The only major issue they had was how to spend their money. Most coaches are happy with the blending of 25%, I think these changes will be here for a long time. Eventually, there may be special circumstance rules placed into effect.
You all need to understand how the system works, go with the flow and help to find the right program where your son will flourish and be happy, in all aspects not just baseball. If you take the negative approach, you will only get negative results.
JMO.
As a parent of a player, now a college senior, I have heard from time to time some irrational bitterness from other parents, regarding the coaches treatment of their child. I know that shocks many. 
The original article read like bitter baseball dad/coach hoodwinking the local beat reporter into doing a hatchet job on his kids (former) coach. jmo
The original article read like bitter baseball dad/coach hoodwinking the local beat reporter into doing a hatchet job on his kids (former) coach. jmo
Isn't this an example of the fall out of the new NCAA rules ?
I am not surprised that this is happening and I am not surprised the coach would be distraught and also help the player find a new place.
All the coaches I talked to over the recruiting process were very straight forward and helpfull.
I am not surprised that this is happening and I am not surprised the coach would be distraught and also help the player find a new place.
All the coaches I talked to over the recruiting process were very straight forward and helpfull.
quote:Originally posted by FloridaHokie:
Coach Mac is firmly entrenched among the top 10-15 men I have met in my life with regard to class and integrity.
FLHokie,
I fully agree with your assessment of Coach Mac.
Flahokie, good to hear your take on the story. You are a man of class and integrity, so I am sure you come clean as you can be.
High school coach in Gainesville has a good rep as a coach, but some in the know have said he liked his relationships with the past head coaches at UF and was probably just going in about his kid.
I hope H is doing well and I know he'll compete after seeing some of him this past spring.
As for the story, I have had the press write about me just 3 times in my life about varying subjects and they did get quotes from me. All 3 times they goofed up the story, turned it around, mis-quoted me and down right lied. These were not stories of a negative matter, just human interest, and they couldn't get those right.
Thats why I have such a high regard for those that cry daily about freedom of the press, but in doing so would like nothing better than take away our freedom of speech.
High school coach in Gainesville has a good rep as a coach, but some in the know have said he liked his relationships with the past head coaches at UF and was probably just going in about his kid.
I hope H is doing well and I know he'll compete after seeing some of him this past spring.
As for the story, I have had the press write about me just 3 times in my life about varying subjects and they did get quotes from me. All 3 times they goofed up the story, turned it around, mis-quoted me and down right lied. These were not stories of a negative matter, just human interest, and they couldn't get those right.
Thats why I have such a high regard for those that cry daily about freedom of the press, but in doing so would like nothing better than take away our freedom of speech.
quote:Bob Smith statement faxed on Friday
I would like to make an attempt to reconcile the differences in opinion between myself and the University of Florida baseball program, specifically Coach O'Sullivan. While I still disagree with the way things have transpired, this situation has spun out of control. It should have been handled more professionally. I have always taught our players to take the high road, and I failed to follow my own advice for this. I am truly sorry.
Both of my former players (Eric Thomas and Bo Smith) have relocated and have great opportunities to contribute to their new schools. My personal attack of Coach O'Sullivan will not help them in any way. I would hope that everyone (myself included) will give Kevin the chance he has worked so hard to attain. I wish him the best of luck. Anyone who knows me knows that this statement was not coerced. I am sorry for all of the trouble I have caused to Coach O'Sullivan, the UAA and John Patton of The Gainesville Sun.
The story is apparently rooted in an over reaction from the subject baseball parent, a rare occurence.
Coach Smiths Apology
According to a reliable source, JPatton never spoke with Eric or the DBCC coach. He could not get a comment from Coach O'Sullivan because he was advised not to by the Student Information Director who controls who speaks to who. After the article came out, they realized how damaging it all could be and then decided to make a statement. That was not the new Head Coach's fault.
JPatton, IMO, was used as a pawn by someone who waited about two months ago until his son left Gainesville because he knew there would be backlash. JPatton has received death threats on his life.
This was a very unfortunate incident with many people suffering consequences because one Coach Dad had some issues because he was not received in the new Head Coach's office as he is used to being received. IMO.
These events and some posts made in this thread show how people are quick to judge without hearing or knowing all of the facts.
Go to Baseball America and read about all of the transfers taken place this fall. I know it is not a complete list. I am sure most of these transfers took place after season discussions with Head Coaches and where those players fit in the scheme of things and teh new transfer sit out one year rule.
I find the whole thing rather sad.
JPatton, IMO, was used as a pawn by someone who waited about two months ago until his son left Gainesville because he knew there would be backlash. JPatton has received death threats on his life.
This was a very unfortunate incident with many people suffering consequences because one Coach Dad had some issues because he was not received in the new Head Coach's office as he is used to being received. IMO.
These events and some posts made in this thread show how people are quick to judge without hearing or knowing all of the facts.
Go to Baseball America and read about all of the transfers taken place this fall. I know it is not a complete list. I am sure most of these transfers took place after season discussions with Head Coaches and where those players fit in the scheme of things and teh new transfer sit out one year rule.
I find the whole thing rather sad.
It's a shame that the thread ran with the article rather than the point that some coaches 'clean house' for the sake of making an impact.
The best result of the way it ran is that Sully was shown to be a stand-up guy as any who have come across him agree.
The question still lies waiting to rear its ugly head when a new coach comes in under the new rule and decides to 'clean house".
The NCAA should re-examine the new rule.
The best result of the way it ran is that Sully was shown to be a stand-up guy as any who have come across him agree.
The question still lies waiting to rear its ugly head when a new coach comes in under the new rule and decides to 'clean house".
The NCAA should re-examine the new rule.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
It's a shame that the thread ran with the article rather than the point that some coaches 'clean house' for the sake of making an impact.
The best result of the way it ran is that Sully was shown to be a stand-up guy as any who have come across him agree.
The question still lies waiting to rear its ugly head when a new coach comes in under the new rule and decides to 'clean house".
The NCAA should re-examine the new rule.
"Cleaning House" has been in effect before the new rule. It's done several ways and by several methods. The standard line is "not sure how much playing time you will get in the future, I will be happy to speak to any school you are interested in, here's your release". Or the ones who didn't have teh guts to say anything just let some players sit hoping they would get the message.
So not so sure why all of you think that this rule has to re-examined by the NCAA. It should have been in place years ago.
I blame the NCAA for not changing things sooner. No roster caps meant schools stockpiled, and the same ones have done it year after year after year. And recruits not caring if they played on a team with a 45 man roster just made it easier for those schools to get away with it. Don't get me wrong, many players attended these programs because most of them were large state schools and it was afordable. Most D1 schools in the past 3-5 years HAVE cut their rosters.
Now coaches have the unpleasant task of trying to make adjustments and get slammed for it, that's not fair, don't care which coach it is.
'Cleaning house' now comes with a one year penalty to the student athlete under the new rule.
Excessive rosters should never have been allowed without at least a fantastic development program for up and coming players.
'Cleaning house' is not cutting rosters to meet NCAA standards, 'cleaning house' is usually the new coach getting rid of the previous coach's players to make the point that a new system is in place.
The NCAA has not been very kind to baseball over the years.
Maybe the ESPN money for the post-season will get their attention.
Excessive rosters should never have been allowed without at least a fantastic development program for up and coming players.
'Cleaning house' is not cutting rosters to meet NCAA standards, 'cleaning house' is usually the new coach getting rid of the previous coach's players to make the point that a new system is in place.
The NCAA has not been very kind to baseball over the years.
Maybe the ESPN money for the post-season will get their attention.
Coach Bob Smith of Buchholz HS who was involved in the aforementioned article and circumstance was fired today. Its a shame, he was a great coach.
http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070827/NEWS/70827007
http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070827/NEWS/70827007
What is the status of the reporter who did a hatchet job on his cross checking of the facts to this story?
Buchholz fires baseball coach
By JOHN PATTON
Sun high school sports editor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A week after publicly criticizing new Florida baseball coach Kevin O' Sullivan, Bob Smith was relieved of his duties as coach of the Buchholz Bobcats' baseball team Friday.
Continue to 2nd paragraph Smith had argued with O'Sullivan over what Smith described as O'Sullivan's handling of roster moves and scholarships of former Buchholz players, including Smith's son. O'Sullivan has denied both the description and tenor of the conversations through press releases issued by the UF sports information department.
When reached by phone Monday, Smith said he "didn't think last week helped, but from what I was able to gather, this was something going on for a while."
In a press release Friday, Smith didn't retract any of his comments, but did attempt to reconcile the situation between himself and O'Sullivan. O'Sullivan had no further comment.
Smith has coached for 27 years, the first three at Keystone Heights and the last 24 at Buchholz. He has more than 500 career wins, coached Detroit Tigers' starting pitcher Andrew Miller at BHS and said last spring he planned to retire at the end of the 2008 season.
He issued a statement regarding his dismissal.
On Friday, August 24 I was relieved of the head baseball coaching job at Buchholz High School.
I was hired here because of the way I coach and I am being let go for the same reason. While I don't necessarily agree with it, I respect (principal) Mr. (Vincente) Perez's decision � that it is for the good of the program. After spending almost half my life here at Buchholz, I, too, want what's best for this school.
It is almost unheard of for any head coach to work at the same school for more than 20 years, (and) for that opportunity, I am truly grateful. I have tried over the years to make decisions in the best interest of the entire team, some of them unpopular I am sure, but the success of the program year in and year out speaks for itself. The 67-percent winning percentage and top-10 rankings for the past 10 years in a row are truly a tribute to the talent of those young men who played for me.
I have stated repeatedly that the 2008 season would be my last. Unfortunately, that will not be the case. This year's team is loaded with talent and is a legitimate contender for the state championship. I will be their biggest fan because I know how hard they have worked and how much they deserve the title.
I would like to thank all players, parents, teachers, administrators and staff for their support over the years. Buchholz is the best high school in the state, and I look forward to continuing my career here as dean of students, working alongside other dedicated Bobcats. And a special thanks to my wife and three sons. They are my reason for living. I love them all dearly.
Perez also issued a statement.
Bob Smith has been a teacher, dean and coach in Alachua County for nearly 30 years. I have the utmost respect for coach Smith's passion and dedication to Buchholz High School. I met with coach Smith this past Friday to discuss the direction of the BHS baseball program. At the end of the meeting, I felt it was in the best interest of Buchholz High School to make that change. Coach Smith has been and will continue to be a valuable resource to our school.
When reached by telephone Perez said he would like the release be his only statement on the matter, but when asked said no timetable has been set for hiring Smith's replacement.
Buchholz finished 22-9 and as District 1-6A champions in 2007. The Bobcats reached the regional final, losing 3-2 to eventual state runner-up DeLand and pitcher Michael Main, who became a first-round pick in June's Major League draft. In 2008 Buchholz is scheduled to return all but two full-time starters from that team.
Smith said he turned down two college assistant jobs in recent years and is hoping to eventually catch on with a college program.
By JOHN PATTON
Sun high school sports editor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A week after publicly criticizing new Florida baseball coach Kevin O' Sullivan, Bob Smith was relieved of his duties as coach of the Buchholz Bobcats' baseball team Friday.
Continue to 2nd paragraph Smith had argued with O'Sullivan over what Smith described as O'Sullivan's handling of roster moves and scholarships of former Buchholz players, including Smith's son. O'Sullivan has denied both the description and tenor of the conversations through press releases issued by the UF sports information department.
When reached by phone Monday, Smith said he "didn't think last week helped, but from what I was able to gather, this was something going on for a while."
In a press release Friday, Smith didn't retract any of his comments, but did attempt to reconcile the situation between himself and O'Sullivan. O'Sullivan had no further comment.
Smith has coached for 27 years, the first three at Keystone Heights and the last 24 at Buchholz. He has more than 500 career wins, coached Detroit Tigers' starting pitcher Andrew Miller at BHS and said last spring he planned to retire at the end of the 2008 season.
He issued a statement regarding his dismissal.
On Friday, August 24 I was relieved of the head baseball coaching job at Buchholz High School.
I was hired here because of the way I coach and I am being let go for the same reason. While I don't necessarily agree with it, I respect (principal) Mr. (Vincente) Perez's decision � that it is for the good of the program. After spending almost half my life here at Buchholz, I, too, want what's best for this school.
It is almost unheard of for any head coach to work at the same school for more than 20 years, (and) for that opportunity, I am truly grateful. I have tried over the years to make decisions in the best interest of the entire team, some of them unpopular I am sure, but the success of the program year in and year out speaks for itself. The 67-percent winning percentage and top-10 rankings for the past 10 years in a row are truly a tribute to the talent of those young men who played for me.
I have stated repeatedly that the 2008 season would be my last. Unfortunately, that will not be the case. This year's team is loaded with talent and is a legitimate contender for the state championship. I will be their biggest fan because I know how hard they have worked and how much they deserve the title.
I would like to thank all players, parents, teachers, administrators and staff for their support over the years. Buchholz is the best high school in the state, and I look forward to continuing my career here as dean of students, working alongside other dedicated Bobcats. And a special thanks to my wife and three sons. They are my reason for living. I love them all dearly.
Perez also issued a statement.
Bob Smith has been a teacher, dean and coach in Alachua County for nearly 30 years. I have the utmost respect for coach Smith's passion and dedication to Buchholz High School. I met with coach Smith this past Friday to discuss the direction of the BHS baseball program. At the end of the meeting, I felt it was in the best interest of Buchholz High School to make that change. Coach Smith has been and will continue to be a valuable resource to our school.
When reached by telephone Perez said he would like the release be his only statement on the matter, but when asked said no timetable has been set for hiring Smith's replacement.
Buchholz finished 22-9 and as District 1-6A champions in 2007. The Bobcats reached the regional final, losing 3-2 to eventual state runner-up DeLand and pitcher Michael Main, who became a first-round pick in June's Major League draft. In 2008 Buchholz is scheduled to return all but two full-time starters from that team.
Smith said he turned down two college assistant jobs in recent years and is hoping to eventually catch on with a college program.
Look who wrote the article. He covered Smith's firing.quote:Originally posted by deldad:
What is the status of the reporter who did a hatchet job on his cross checking of the facts to this story?
Rhetorical!
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
What is the status of the reporter who did a hatchet job on his cross checking of the facts to this story?
I found that very interesting also. IMO, the reporter was irresponsible in teh way he went about getting teh stroy. He has never spoken to the other players involved or the coach from DBCC as well.
My understanding is that the Coach origiannly went to a different publication who wouldn't write the story, passed on to the gainesvillesun whose editor jumped on it and gave it to JPatton to follow up on. JPatton claims he was only doing his job, but IMO was not responsible. The reporter blamed UF for not allowing O'Sullivan an opportunity to refute Coach's statments. The reporter called on Monday and told them (the SID) story would break wednesday or thursday, I think UF felt backed against a corner and needed to get the facts before they made a comment, but they didn't move quick enough.
A sad situation for all involved.
Does anyone who has posted an opinion on this board about the situation have any feelings of guilt about contributing to the HS coach losing his job?
Does anyone who has read this post, feel that this post has contributed to the HS coaches firing?
Do not misunderstand me, I am not pointing fingers, I am asking for opinions, related to the power of internet blogs.
Does anyone who has read this post, feel that this post has contributed to the HS coaches firing?
Do not misunderstand me, I am not pointing fingers, I am asking for opinions, related to the power of internet blogs.
No guilt here.
I do not believe this thread has had anything to do with the coach being released. The articles in the Gainesville Sun certainly contributed to the coach's situation.
I do not believe this thread has had anything to do with the coach being released. The articles in the Gainesville Sun certainly contributed to the coach's situation.
I personally don't feel a tinge of guilt about posting on this topic.
The coach's firing was not based on this board but the published article that he initiated.
He exercised poor judgement in his role as a high school coach. Had he just been ranting as an angry parent he would have been ignored.
Sadly his apology did not garner him absolution as we have seen in other situations.
The coach's firing was not based on this board but the published article that he initiated.
He exercised poor judgement in his role as a high school coach. Had he just been ranting as an angry parent he would have been ignored.
Sadly his apology did not garner him absolution as we have seen in other situations.
quote:Originally posted by sluggo:
Does anyone who has posted an opinion on this board about the situation have any feelings of guilt about contributing to the HS coach losing his job?
Does anyone who has read this post, feel that this post has contributed to the HS coaches firing?
Do not misunderstand me, I am not pointing fingers, I am asking for opinions.
No. If you read the last article, must have been some other stuff happening as well.
I doubt that the Coaches boss came to the HSBBW and read our comments and decided to fire him.
Who is to blame is irresponsible reporting.
There has been a lot of finger pointing, no one was in the room that day when the meeting took place but two coaches. Reporting an incident after almost two months, people tend to forget what actually was said or how the conversation actually went down. If it was me, I would have made sure that I either had the facts straight from more than one person, especially from the DBCC player or waited until such time as I felt comfortable and understood ramifications of writing such an article. But it obviously seems like such a juicy story not to pass up. New coach meets up with coach of largest HS in Gainesville and they didn't hit it off so well. Reporter is familiar with the HS coach for years but has never met the new UF coach? Reporter reports O'Sullivan "no comment" when the no comment came from the SID whose job is to control what press goes in and what goes out.
I thought the hs press release was done well & it sounds like he's still teaching there
pehaps he shoulda worked in "finding Jesus" like Michael Vick did in his appologyquote:by Quincy: Sadly his apology did not garner him absolution as we have seen in other situations.
'll bet the headline sold some papers and got the story read.
Being a reporter is like being a lawyer. They can absolve themselves of anything negative simply by stating that these are the allegations as their client or source has supplied to them.
It is a business.
I see the Light, hallelujah.
Being a reporter is like being a lawyer. They can absolve themselves of anything negative simply by stating that these are the allegations as their client or source has supplied to them.
It is a business.
I see the Light, hallelujah.
Sometimes lose cannons roll overboard without assistance.
If you know Coach Sully or have ever met the man you would have waited for the whole story to come out before jumping on the bandwagon to beat him down. First class coach and first class man. You better wake up right now and realize with the new rules 35 man rosters there are alot of players that are going to be told to seek another place to play before the new transfer rules come into place. You will see alot of this at alot of places especially once the fall season takes place this year. I would much rather have a coach tell me up front that he did not believe I could play for him and give me the opportunity to seek another program than just release me after it was too late. There are a ton of programs that carry over 35 players. These programs must still recruit , plan for guys drafted and then maybe a projected draft pick decides to not go in the draft or does not get drafted at all. This story was one sided and I dont like that. Coach Sully is a great guy and a first class coach. The landscape has changed folks. From no restrictions on the amount of guys on a roster to a restriction of 35. I dont think people understand how huge and impact this is going to have on college baseball and most importantly the players. No one can guarantee you anything I dont care how good you are or high you are ranked coming in. If you do not perform and you can not help a program in the coaches eyes they are not going to fill a limited roster with guys that can not help them play. Like it or not that is where we are. Everything in a news paper is not gospel. And there is always more than one side to every story.
Coach May,
Question for RYNO who started this thread.
Are you a player or a parent?
Are you a player or a parent?
Did this thread lead to the firing of the High school coach?
I doubt it, but, the issues were aired on this thread in a much fairer and balanced light than by the newspaper article. I am impressed with the manner in which both sides of the issue were discussed in this thread. \
I think that this thread should be sent to the reporter and used to show him how to do his job.
I doubt it, but, the issues were aired on this thread in a much fairer and balanced light than by the newspaper article. I am impressed with the manner in which both sides of the issue were discussed in this thread. \
I think that this thread should be sent to the reporter and used to show him how to do his job.
quote:Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Who is to blame is irresponsible reporting.
I agree, and the editor shares some blame too. The reporter should have, at the very least, found corroborating evidence before submitting his piece. I can't understand how it ever got past the editor's desk.
quote:deldad posted: I think that this thread should be sent to the reporter and used to show him how to do his job.
He saw the thread Friday and commented to me via email. He was caught short by the Gators not letting Sully jump in a media mud puddle with Coach Smith, which was hardly surprising to anyone else.
In spite of the fact he had no confirmation of anything other than a meeting occurred in July, he felt Sully was "left twisting". Sully surely lands on his feet and moves on, which is more than Coach Smith can say. A sad tale, indeed. Bad idea to poke a gator in the eye without back-up.
RYNO,
Great post.
While the thread dwelled far too much on the initial story, it brought to light some of the issues facing students being recruited and after being recruited.
It brought to light that many student athletes have been given the opportunity to seek other venues if they wanted to pursue baseball in college under the new rules.
Secondly, it brought to light that some coaches make wholesale changes upon assuming a new coaching position merely to make an impact.
It informed parents and students that they have to consider the possibility that basseball may not be in their future. They may be better served to choose a college that they would just as happily seek to attend solely for the education as much as play for.
Great post.
While the thread dwelled far too much on the initial story, it brought to light some of the issues facing students being recruited and after being recruited.
It brought to light that many student athletes have been given the opportunity to seek other venues if they wanted to pursue baseball in college under the new rules.
Secondly, it brought to light that some coaches make wholesale changes upon assuming a new coaching position merely to make an impact.
It informed parents and students that they have to consider the possibility that basseball may not be in their future. They may be better served to choose a college that they would just as happily seek to attend solely for the education as much as play for.