Freshman Dad Needs Advice

At many schools the Freshman coach is an assistant Freshman or JV football coach and needs another sport to coach and not very knowledgeable about the game. I would address the pitch count and lack of stretching concerns with the varsity coach ASAP. Don't pass go, don't collect $200, go straight to the head coach. If you don't and your boy ends up damaging your arm, it's going to be hard to accept.

Most freshman teams need conditioning much more than wins so I can't argue with the mile exercise. If the arms are getting damaged then I would address that as a separate issue.

Stats
agree that conditioning is important but i
think the distance running should be done
in pre season and as a part of practice.

i've seen some goofy 'football-type' pre game
warmups for sure but most baseball people go
the stretching route.

agree with joedaddy. talk to the head coach.

coop

My two cents on this tough topic......

Teach your son to communicate with the coaches. Teach your son how to understand his abilities (pitch counts, ect.).

If communicated well, most likely the coach will understand. If he doesn't, well then go to the next level until you have exhausted all options. I would recommend a professional and positive approach from these players.

It is time for our youth today to learn to communicate for themselves. How they communicate is the key to selling their points and intentions.

This situation is a touchy deal I know, but it can be worked with. When my wife has a problem with my boss, she doesn't go talk to him......I do.

Peanut- Your advice well exceeds your age. I continue to be impressed with the advice you give on this forum. Most of the time disagreement is heard, it's because they have misread your intentions. Keep up the good work.
I agree--as parents we too often are sent in to "slay the dragon" when a little communication between player and coach might solve everything.

Thanks for the great advice, I am in agreement that we need to let the kids communicate for themselves. As a matter of fact, my son told me that he was going to meet with the varsity coach himself. Maybe there is hope for him!!!

Juice,

That is good news. There will be one of two things that comes from your sons conversation with the coach.

1. The coach will be receptive and take action accordingly.

2. Nothing will change.

Either way, your son will know what to expect and move on. If things don't change then he must accept what will happen but continue to respect the decisions made.

All of this is a learning experience for what will happen at the next level.....not only the next level of baseball but the next level of life. We all know we face things we don't like everyday that we can do nothing about. We do the best we can and move on. It's how you approach the situation and how you move on that makes the difference.

Good luck.

P.S. I'm pretty sure you and your son will look back at this one day a consider it a very minor detail in the grand scheme of things. Baseball and Life.

I agree with what is said here. However there is a 3rd option that CAN happen. if the coach isn't very receptive at all it could have consequences on your son's playing time or making varsity in the future. The coach may perceive it as whining and may take it wrong. It happens.

I suggest you do your stretching on your own before you get there and make the best of a bad situation.

Coop,

Yes, I do error on the side of freshman conditioning and 1 full mile is probably too much. But don't throw out the value of jogging/sprinting before a game. That sprint from the plate is an ideal hamstring breaker especially in these early cold days. In my HS days the 100 sprinters would jog a 1/2 mile, stretch, then do 8 100s (50% first 2, 98% last 2). This prepared them for the a single race.

This is tougher to do in baseball since you might sit three hours and then DH. Still, the idea of oxygenating the muscles pregame is important

A mile is probably too much especially if it is a "run" not a jog. But what is the right amount?

I suggest that the freshmen dads just survive the freshman year and only get involved to avoid injuries. Call coach or the trainer if you think your son will be injured. Jogging a mile before a game won't hurt him. Bench pressing your maximum amount before throwing 100 pitches is a crime.

bbrulz,

Your comment may be true and has been at times. But I think the important thing you may be missing is the way the player approaches his communication efforts.

There are many ways to express yourself and achieve a common goal. If a kid comes to me with a "matter of fact" attitude, chances are things won't work. But if a player comes to me with a true concern and a positive approach, things can be worked out. I may never agree, but I may grant the player something he thinks he is getting just to put more confidence in himself so he wont dwell on something he doesn't agree with.

It's a mind game folks. When you were a kid, you knew how to ask your mom for money didn't you?

juiceless -- Does your freshman son already know how to communicate effectively? If you have ANY doubts, I'd suggest being present if/when he talks to the varsity coach. Lots of parents, grandparents, and old coaches still have problems "speaking" and being "understood". This is not the time for trial and error or "communication practice" for your son!! Be present, let your son do ALL the talking, and open your mouth only if there is a misunderstanding. He needs to walk away feeling confident -- not crushed!! EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST TEACHER. (If he wants to play his junior/senior year, don't jeopardize this situation and send him alone!!) Coach Guthrie speaks from the select coaching perspective. The politics are a bit different at high school. However, I do agree with Ken's thought that the "youth today" need to learn how to communicate. It's a skill -- just like listening, but neither are learned easily.

Melynda,

Although I respect your opinions, I highly disagree with you.

Your son will never learn to communicate on his own if he is not forced to. With a parent present, it will do 2 things...

1. Put the coach in a different situation.

2. Put the player a different situation.

I do understand where your going with the high school vs. summer program comment but urge to to reconsider that excuse. There are politics in every aspect of life, not just high school baseball.

You mention communication skills are not learned easily. I agree with this. So much that I think the lumps a kid takes early in his communication errors will only benefit him sooner.

If a kid is suspect in playing during his junior/senior year because of a lack of proper expression, I suggest the child is either way behind in communication skills and/or baseball skills.

Put the child in a situation where he is forced to learn. If he is misunderstood, then he can try again. If that doesn't work, I think the proper approach was way off base to start.

And when your off the base, you have a chance to be picked off.

Ken -- I agree that our kids/young adults need to know how to communicate. I've seen first hand what happens when a parent does all the "talking". My son's father (custodial parent) scared every scout away that was recruiting him. It was heartbreaking! However, I still think a freshman may need some guidance and direction when discussing issues with a varsity coach. Just my opinion -- plus, I'm a mom. (.....and I've been picked off plenty!!)

Ken, I don't believe that I missed anything. I agree with your post. It is important to learn how to communicate the proper way. With some coaches it just won't make a difference.

I just want to point out that it CAN happen the way I described and I have seen it happen to my own son. I am not trying to be negative. I am just pointing out that you had better judge the situation before you open your mouth. Not every coach has the sensibities that you might have. Some guys just aren't as nice and do not want to be bothered by such things. That is just a fact of life.

"It's a mind game folks. When you were a kid, you knew how to ask your mom for money didn't you?"

Yes id did. The difference is that I grew up with my mother and knew what to expect from her. Your anaology would be more correct if you were asking me to ask my neighbor down the street for money. I didn't know him so well and did not know what to expect. Which makes my point. You better judge the situation before you speak.

Melynda and bbrutz,

Sorry to hear about your experience. Just another example of someone who did not know how to communicate I guess.

You have experience in something that I do not, that is raising a child. Hopefully my time will come. But what about this?

Lets pretend I am the freshman player talking to the varsity coach. Here is the dialog....
My vocabulary may change between characters...

Freshman player- "Coach, would there be a chance that I could talk with you in private?"

Egotistical Varsity Coach (just in case this is one)- "I ain't got time today son, but tomorrow might work if I ain't got football film sessions."

FP- "That would be great, I will look forward to it"

Footnote- now the player is thanking the coach and putting him in a situation to force the coach to talk......on forward.....next day, after practice

FP- "You must have been busy today, is there a chance we might talk now?"

VC- "I guess, what's on your mind kid?"

FP- "There is some stuff, um, that you know, I am worried about, you know, on the freshman team, yeah, um......"

VC- "What's the problem"

FP- "Well, we seem to be running a lot, which is great, but we don't seem to stretch much. Do you think it's important to stretch?"

Footnote- now you are seeing what the varsity coach knows and thinks about whats going on rather than disagreeing with anything........
on forward.......

VC- "Son, if you think I would put someone in charge that didn't know what was right, you are crazy. This coach is the best freshman football/baseball coach in the state. He is getting you ready for the big time baby. Varsity is where it's at. If you don't like it, you better get ready. Up here, we work till dark and run 2 miles for warm up."

FP- "I understand coach, thank you for your time. I will work hard to be ready for my chance"

Now just in case the coach was not egotistical here is where it might change......

VC- "Son, you guys run and don't stretch? I will have to look into that."

FP- "Thanks man, I mean coach. Our team is really excited and enjoy watching varsity games. Good luck this spring and thanks for your time."

Now your son is a shoe in for varsity as a sophmore and he thinks his parents are the greatest ever. You get promoted to the booster club president and make every personel dicision from now on. You fire the freshman baseball coach and the varsity coach starts your son. Son gets a scholarship to UT and is Big 12 player of the year. Gets drafted by the Dodgers in the 3rd round and signs for $500,000. Gets released in 3 years and becomes a summer ball coach. Now he has to teach his kids how to communicate but the parents won't help.

It's all a learning curve. Trust me, talking to a varsity coach is way down on the totem pole in important conversations. Most families just make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Ken Guthrie,

Since we don't share your exact opinion then our children cannot communicate? Thank you for that. lol I didn't realize that the advice I contributed so threatened you that there is no room for you to even consider that some coaches, or people for that matter, are difficult. I stand by my advice. Be careful and judge the situation. It is prudent advice. Sorry if you disagree.

Your failure to realize that sometimes there are unreasonable and mean spirited people shows your lack of experience as a parent and communicator. The reality is sometimes no matter how nice and articulate that you are some people are unreasonable. You are going to run into that in business, school and life. You can ignore that it is a fact of life if you want to.

I sense that it is more important for you to be right at all costs than it is for you to admit that some coaches can be unreasonable. So I will end it here and let you tell me how I cannot communicate and that you are right. We will let the people reading decide what good information is. That is the purpose of writing here. Isn't it?

P.S. I communicate fairly well. So does my son who plays for a D1, has straight A's, and scored a 1450 on his SAT. Maybe it was the coach.

bbrutz,

Sorry you have read my message and consturcted an opinion that I view your approach as a negative approach.

That was certainly not the intent.

Good luck to your ballplayer and those are impressive SAT scores.

quote:

Be present, let your son do ALL the talking, and open your mouth only if there is a misunderstanding.

juiceless -- This is still my advice for any parent of a freshman athlete who is approaching a varsity coach with an issue. (This would not be my advice to a senior, though.) By the way, talking to a varsity coach is NOT way down on the totem pole when you are in high school. Mr. Guthrie is a great baseball coach and knows his game..... but he is not yet a parent. Perspectives, advice, outlooks, etc. change when children come into the picture!! Good luck with your son. Take what you can use from these post but go with your gut feeling. You know your son better than any of us. However, a few of us have been there and done that.

Ok gang...I'm stepping back a bit...how did you all get beyond:

dad: "how was practice today?"
son: "fine"
dad: "what did you work on?"
son: "nuttin really"
dad: "how was school?"
son: "fine"
dad: "what did work on?"
son: "nuttin really"
dad: "so, ready for the district opener?"
son: "grunt"
dad: "so, ready for life?"
son: "grunt"

my exaggeration isn't that extreme, is it? And, I think BBRULZ ended a sentence with a preposition! (ok, just trying to keep it light)

Good luck to all during tomorrow night's district matchups.

Go Panthers!

-PD

Hopefully my son says this....

Me "So ready for district opener"

Son "Yes Sir"

Me "So ready for life"

Son "Excuse me sir?"

Hopefully I can put a little southern respect along with confidence in him. Then again, I may have a daughter who plays the symbols in band.

I suspect you will find something in between my exaggeration and your child's reality -- but good luck with all that -- our case may have something to do with his being 15. All reports (from others) are that his "southern respect" is fine....thanks.

Folks,

You are taking my posts personally. My stuff is a rationalization. No direct intent. I don't know you or your kids.

As a 15 year old would say....."Chill".

Juiceless,
Back to your dilemma. I think I would put limits on my son’s use as a pitcher and if your son can’t control his use (or over-use) I would step in and address it (no argument) one on one with the freshman coach. This is a health issue. The running/stretching issue should be left up to the freshman coach. Your son can do some stretching on his own. Jump in if you must, but stay out if you can.
As far as a freshman having an intelligent, constructive, productive, discussion with a high school athletic coach...well, I’m not sure that is realistic. Let me give you two examples of... been there done that.

1. When my son was a junior in high school he was approached by the football coach to play football. My son came home and informed me of the situation but said he didn’t want to play...The next day he came home and said he told the coach he didn’t want to play but the coach “convinced” him he should...but...he still didn’t want to. I told him he needed to be firm with the coach and say NO. He nodded his head yes to me and “tried” on the next day to say NO but again but the coach coerced him into agreeing to play. I got involved in the "debate" and to make a long story short...He played football his junior and senior year of high school.

THREE YEARS LATER

2. As a sophomore catcher in college and after catching the first 15 games of the season, the head coach asked him to pitch. He called me on the phone and said he really didn’t want to pitch. I told him to talk it over with the coach and remind him they had signed him as a catcher. He kinda chuckled on the phone and said...”I really don’t think that’s an option”...He pitched the rest of the season.
Fungo

Don't tell me its daytime when the stars are out.A smarter fellow than me once said "you can't argue with an idiot, he will fire you." FreshmanDad your son has to stretch somehow and also use rubber bands for rotater cuff strengthening on his own.There are some other strength and conditioning forums on HSBW that tell us programs and routines that we can point our players to.<(preposition)

Ken -- I'm certainly not taking anything personally -- I think your advice is a valid option and others are simply considering how communicating with HS coaches might work for their son.

I agree with Milk Mannorth and others that suggest that the freshman find a way to stretch on his own. Often times, there are enough "waiting minutes" before a game where he can stretch. Some go out into the outfield and run sprints, etc. My guess is that others will join him, which might lead to a larger team effort.

I often ride the fence on controversy -- I see both sides of the talk to the coach debate. I support direct conversation between the player and the freshman coach first, then escalation, if necessary. I also support a bit of a "practice session" with his parents if there is reluctance. Despite being criticized here for all manner of behavior, I think most coaches are reasonable with players that show respect and maturity.

In any case, I think a kid will survive running (even if it seems excessive)....but he/she needs to stretch as well.

-PD

Wow, never realized this question would create such a thread. I really appreciate everyone's advice. My son and I have discussed the situation, if he ever feels it necessary to go talk to the varsity coach, he is confident in his ability to do so. Unless I feel it is necessary (for health reasons) to step in, I will not intercede. This HS baseball stuff, even on the freshman level is a rude awakening.
Thanks again for everyone's advice.

I will repeat advice from my son's select coach: before you complain or go discuss anything with the hs coach, go to practice everyday for 2 weeks, rain or shine hot or cold and observe.

I think 1 week is probably enough for one to get the picture, though.

Why are we skipping directly to the varsity coach?? I have not read anything that suggests that the freshman coach is a complete jerk. Maybe he has some made some strange game decisions...But what is wrong with the kid going to his coach and simply asking his coach some obvious questions.
1). Why do you not believe in stretching? What has lead you to this decision?
2). Are we in that bad of shape that you believe we need to run prior to a DH.?
3). What is your (coaches) opion on pitch counts?

I'd think after he learned the answers to these questions he might have a better understanding of what his coach is thinking. Then, if needed, he might be better able to communicate with the varsity coach. That would be my first question of your son if I was the V coach... Why are you asking/telling me this? Have you talked with coach so-n-so about these issues.

Might really alienate freshman coach if he finds out your son has issues and does not ask him first???

Have been watching this thread for better part of the last week.

Last night at a freshman game, I watched a pitcher pitch into the 10th inning. Pitch count was in upper 90's through 9 innings so its not like the pitcher was struggling. However, in the 8 & 9th he began laboring a bit, leaving pitches up more, but still went out to pitch the 10th. Ended up getting the loss after allowing 2 hits in the 10th before being removed.

Kid showed alot of heart, but 10 innings?

i would like to post from a players stand point i hate when my parents think they need to get involved with my coaches cause it only makes it worse for me the player cause it is a privilege to play it is not pony or little league anymore where you have to pay to play if you dont like how the team is run o'well you have to tough it out making some comments on the way just to let the coach know how you feel but no parent involvement is needed

keaton,

I think you are probably a coaches dream.

Coaches out there- agree??