FWIW...

Matt Reiland posted:

JCG posted:

Sorry to admit that this is new to me. To clarify so I get it:

Kid #1:  6' 3",  160 lbs, very skinny, almost invisible from the side.

Kid #2:  5' 10", 190 lbs, has muscles but lots of babyfat too.

Kid #3:  5' 11", 165 lbs, very lean and ripped.

All 3 want to get to 200lbs.  All 3 need to consume 200g of protein per day?

Right?

Edit to ask also:  Do Kids #1 and #2 need to consume just 170g per day, as they need to get to 170lbs before they can get to 200 lbs?

There are many ways to get to 200 lbs, but my approach for any of your example kids (I'm assuming they are just made up examples?) would not include eating 200 grams of protein per day.

I would stick with 0.8 to 1.0 gram of protein per pound of CURRENT bodyweight, not what you want your bodyweight to be.  So the amount of protein per day will naturally go up as weight goes up.

Just my initial thoughts, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

OK that makes sense and I'm also guessing that's what Joe meant. As for these examples,  they are common types, but #3 is exactly my 2017.  It's harder for him eat more than is to get to the gym.

joemktg posted:

Just want to keep adding to the topic...regarding strength and speed...

A physical therapist is a valuable addition to the "team." But I'm not referring to the PT deployed post-injury. Rather, a PT used proactively to correct deficiencies. 

A PT with knowledge of the game should be able to perform a full diagnosis and point out the weaknesses that need to be addressed to (1) improve performance and (2) prevent injury. Let me give you an example of both:

1. joemktgson always had trouble with his first two steps out of a sprint. No matter what we tried, e.g., different weight training, various speed drills, technique, etc., nothing worked to improve those first two steps. It was as if everything was in slow motion out of the gate. So we hypothesized that perhaps its a physical issue, and we brought him to his PT for the examination. Sure enough, it was an issue of hip tightness, so he was given a protocol to follow to loosen the hips and strengthen supporting muscles. End result: his 60 dropped by more than .3 of a second.
2. A friend of ours took our advice regarding proactive diagnosis for his 2016 position player, and the exam exposed an imbalance between right and left shoulders, where the throwing shoulder was considerably weaker. A few sessions later, the lack of balance was rectified, and his throws across the diamond improved by 2-3MPH.

 

End result from proactive PT? Improved performance, greater ability to push/pull more weights, and a higher level of injury prevention.

Required? No. Understated importance? Yes.

This is one of those "investments" that may or may not pay off, and is certainly not provable without a control group. Having said that, the aforementioned examples seem to show a posteriori results.

Your call.

You're from GA, correct? If so, do you have a recommendation for a PT?

I just want to know what has happened to our cat.

Teaching Elder posted:

I just want to know what has happened to our cat.

Keep looking. You'll find kitty.

Elijah, local enterprising young boys + skinning = local Chinese place makes great profits

Elijah posted:

You're from GA, correct? If so, do you have a recommendation for a PT?

Not from GA. 

Is all of this kind of like how there are different ways to clean a fish?

Anyone know if there's more than one way to shuck corn?

JCG posted:

OK that makes sense and I'm also guessing that's what Joe meant. As for these examples,  they are common types, but #3 is exactly my 2017.  It's harder for him eat more than is to get to the gym.

Yes it is. There's a whole lotta selling needed. If your 2017 has a girlfriend, you may want to recruit her to support the issue.

Joe Would you please provide a brand name for these gels.  The only ones I know of are Carb based that I use for distance running and biking.  

• gels: if you're not familiar, think of a juice packet that contains a protein based gel

The gel packs you mentioned that are Carb based are highly recommended for players during multiple game days.  Easily taken by the body and provide what the body needs for energy to keep going.

My 2019 still thinks the only reason to eat is for pleasure.  

Any thoughts on Creatine?  Many of my son's football player friends take it, including one who has 2 MD's for parents, and he wants to follow them.   I don't see any red flags when Googling it, but I also can't imagine that it's anywhere near as useful as getting more protein to the kid's body.

Creatine supplement serves a specific purpose.  Do your homework and decide if you feel its good for your player.  Mine began using it when he went to college as directed by their nutritionist.

Great stuff Joe. Thank you for sharing.

Have you read or heard anything about athletes taking Right Stuff while taking creatine? I believe you retain water when taking creatine and since the Right Stuff is a hydration supplement, I was wondering if they address it at all or if you have any first hand info on it.

Thanks.

Agree with TPM.  Creatine is widely used and researched, but understand what it does and whether that fits into your nutrition plan.  Creatine is on a very, very short list of supplements that are actually beneficial.

CAVEAT - Get your nutrition in order before trying some "magic" supplement.  There aren't any magic (legal) supplements that will overcome a crappy diet.  You're wasting your money taking supplements on top of a standard high school kid's diet, so fix that first.

I like TPM's suggestions too, the breakfast egg muffins are great! Get those veggies and fruits in your boys too, I'm sure it goes without saying but some may not realize that with all that protein they take in they WILL be constipated.  Hydration plays a big part in keeping the GI moving too, and it will help so much with keeping their skin clear.  All this advice about hydration,  if it was already stated, forgive me, but refraining from what makes you dehydrated is another part, and the biggest culprit of that is sugar. Soda especially.  Ever drank pickle juice? It's  very hydrating.  Vinegar is the key. Vinegar, get ACV with the Mother, mix with honey and lemon as well.  Helps with electrolytes without Gatorade.  Fresh limeade is great, sweetened with stevia.  

If your son is feeling miserable on this diet of added protein then they will not stick with it.  I went on a high protein diet for a couple years, cut out all sugar and non veg carbs, so kind of know from experience of what can go wrong,  and how it feels, lol!  Macadamia nuts are another protein that helps with digestion. Do salads, like Taco Salad or Cobb Salad (loaded with turkey and bacon)! Those are good mixes of protein with veg.

Smoothies help my boys alot to get a variety of nutrients....Get bags of raw spinach, blend it all up in a blender and pour into ice cube trays and freeze and store in a gallon ziploc, then pop in a spinach cube every smoothie, it's quite flavorless! Whalah! Veggies! For easy access, I keep all smoothie items on the door of the freezer (blueberries, strawberries, mango, frozen bananas -(were about to turn brown before used and peeled and wrapped in saran), pineapple, peaches, coconut chips, etc.  Also, peanut butter POWDER is a great mix in for creamy flavored smoothies.

I bought a Ninja/Nutri Bullet single smoothie machine so my boys could use it - and will easily travel to college!  Buy a bulk pack of insulated to-go cups at Sams club or similar with lids, plus straws and smoothies on the run every day out the door, so easy!

Also, bone broth. Don't get me started. Love it. Fish . Mmm. Good protein sources.  Find meat sources that don't have tons of nitrites/nitrates/ additives.  I really don't want my boys to turn into some kind of he-man science experiment. My 16 year old is very fit, muscular/strong build and good skin.  To us, it's more of a marathon. Not a sprint. 

SDR posted:

Joe Would you please provide a brand name for these gels.  The only ones I know of are Carb based that I use for distance running and biking.  

• gels: if you're not familiar, think of a juice packet that contains a protein based gel

Go here to see a collection: https://thefeed.com/ 

Turn 2 posted:

Great stuff Joe. Thank you for sharing.

Have you read or heard anything about athletes taking Right Stuff while taking creatine? I believe you retain water when taking creatine and since the Right Stuff is a hydration supplement, I was wondering if they address it at all or if you have any first hand info on it.

Thanks.

 

 

 

Interesting thought: haven't heard anything.

If your son hasn't used creatine but desires to, be sure to run it by a nutritionist or similar professional (per TPM's recommendation).  Creatine puts stress on the kidneys.

A quick thought about the use of professionals to supplement your son's training...

Two kinds of professionals: one for on-the-field activity, and one for off-the-field.

If I had to prioritize given limited resources:

1. For POs: pitching instruction
2. For Position Players: hitting instruction
3. Strength training
4. For Position Players: fielding instruction
5. Physical Therapy (proactive, not reactive)
6. Nutritional guidance
7. Eye examinations
8. Speed training

Have we engaged with all of these professionals at one time or another? Yes. Consistently? #'s 2 and 3, and the others on an as-desired basis.

Are we made of money? No. Is there a money tree in the backyard? Haven't found it yet. So we've always been careful about how we budget for this, and making decisions based on ROI and what we could do on our own, given proper research.

Here's the big factor that mucks everything up: we're dealing with teenagers, and by definition, we as parents don't know crapola. Nature of the beast. He's going to listen to a trusted outsider before he listens to you. Two examples:

1) I'm very knowledgeable about nutrition, given my lifting background. But there was nothing I could say that would be taken as gospel, and after a while I just needed a professional to come in and lay down parameter, which by the way, was exactly the same as what I was saying! 

2) Acquaintance of ours played professionally, and is full of on-the-field baseball knowledge. Was he a source of expertise for his son? Nope!

Sometimes you have to pull in the big guns because you are you, and son is son, and that's just the way it is.

^^^^This!

Although it is getting better.

 On second thought.  He probably shouldn't listen to anything I teach about baseball.

I'd always say to joemktgson: "You practice to practice, and you practice to play."

Here's what I meant by that...

Team practices are generally insufficient for position player: too many players = not enough reps. As a result, a player cannot improve at the rate required to continue to grow and succeed because baseball is a game of repetition, e.g., number of swings, number of grounders/flies, number of throws, etc. The math proves this to be correct: assuming 7 infielders, a player will receive 1/7th the number of reps during X time vs. on their own for the same X. So if improvement is desired, it doesn't make sense to rely on improvement solely during practices when X time on your own yields a multiple of 7 more reps.

So what's the purpose of a team practice? Outside of team plays such as cuts, DPs, bunting plays, etc., the practice focuses on the individual and how the individual is performing relative to his peers. And why is that important? That's how the coach will determine playing time. As a result, it is paramount that the player goes into the team practice ready to perform at the highest level so as to secure playing time.

And how does your son perform at the highest level? PRACTICE! And that's practice on his own. The player practices on his own to be prepared for team practices, and the team practices will determine playing time.  "You practice to practice, and you practice to play."

I'll post practice options next time around.

Joe