FWIW...

I will print and give to my son.  Then encourage him to pick up his dirty socks and call his grandparents.

Seriously, very good and concise advice.

joemktg posted:

Some guidance for those looking to be recruited:

1. Consider the 4 S's: Skills, Strength, Speed, School. In other words, ahead of each quarter set goals, plan to attain those goals, include measureables that indicate achievement. Review at least once a month. If at all possible, employ professionals to assist. If not, then research what needs to be done.
2. Target your schools: Be specific. Start with 20-30, then narrow it down.
3. Create a digital presence, e.g., an online resume. And as a part of your digital presence, install Google Analytics so that you can track visitors. When you send emails, use an email tracking device so that you can see who opened and who clicked.
4. Showcase thyself: it allows you to see where you stand, how you compare, and based on that, improve. It also acts as content for your digital presence. PG is the leader in this space.
5. Communicate with RCs and HCs on a regular basis (HCs open and click more than RCs!!). Point them to your digital presence. Be sure that to use your HS and travel coaches as conduits for the RCs and HCs to reach you. Track everything.
6. Be a part of the best travel organization possible where you will play on a regular basis. 
7. Budget all of the aforementioned, and manage accordingly.

 

Joe

 

P.S. I reserve the right to add to this list. So there.

Thanks for your guidance JOEMKTG.  I, too, will make sure my son sees this list.

P.S.  I hope you do add to this list.  So there.

Excellent list.  Wish I had a time machine and could do some of this over.  Two things I would add to the list based on recent experience heading down to the final few months of this with my 2017:

1.  Only go to college-specific camps where you have a specific invite from the HC to attend.  The RC and camp coordinators send out invites based on access to lists from sites like PG, Baseball Factory and others, and their goal is to fill up the camp and maximize revenue for the program and coaches.  We've been to several in the hope of getting "noticed" and it became clear very quickly the coaches were focusing on a small, select group of players that they were already recruiting and wanted to see more closely in their camp.  By and large, the college-specific camps my 2017 has gone to have been a waste of time and money.

2.  Regarding Joe's point #2.  That original list of 20-30 should get reduced significantly heading into Senior year, but there may be 4-5 adds to it based on schools with coaches showing serious interest from showcases.  And if it becomes clear a kid is not being recruited by any D1 during the Summer heading into Senior year, the original list (that probably was filled with D1 programs) should be scrapped and a new list of D2, D3, NAIA and JuCo schools should be the focus during the remaining months.  Since many of these schools may be unknown to the recruit, time needs to be made to research the academics, explore the financial aid options (since many are very expensive), and do a campus visit to experience the campus atmosphere and meet the coach.  We are trying to focus on 5 programs and even that is a challenge with school soon back in session and many weekends already filled baseball-related activities, ACT/SAT retests, etc.

Here are a couple more ideas...

I heard an RC for a junior college tell a collection of HS baseball players "Get up on your own at 5:30 am and lift weights / work out.  When you get here as a freshman, I don't want that to be the first time."

Something about nutrition.

Go44dad posted:

Here are a couple more ideas...

I heard an RC for a junior college tell a collection of HS baseball players "Get up on your own at 5:30 am and lift weights / work out.  When you get here as a freshman, I don't want that to be the first time."

Something about nutrition.

Both of those ideas are folded into Strength (one of the 4 S's). Lifting...throughout the year...is a vitally important of building the requisite strength and size, but is absolutely incomplete without proper nutrition. For the nutrition newbies, start here: ingest 1 gram of protein for every pound of desired bodyweight; get rid of the fast good and junk snacks; and hydrate properly. BTW: take no more than 25g of protein at a time (your body will eliminate all the ingested protein when you exceed that amount). 

Are there any rules on "hydrating properly"?  My son has been inundated all summer with the phrases hydrate before, hydrate during, hydrate after, still better be hydrating....there have been a few kids this year that looked a bit wobbly on the baseball and the football fields who obviously didn't do this enough and one in football was hospitalized for OVER hydrating....any clear rules on this?  (I'm feeling a little bit like Goldilocks here)

http://www.collegesportsschola...-hydration-sport.htm

2forU posted:

http://www.collegesportsschola...-hydration-sport.htm

In addition:

• Start hydration about 24 hours before activity.
• Continuous, steady flow of liquids regardless of activity, not spurts of large quantities.
• Energy level is one of the first things to go. Energy stores are diverted to help with hydration, leaving less fuel for activity.
• Monitor the color of urine.

joemktgson is in Arizona, and they cannot stay hydrated, so they turn to this supplement to help: http://therightstuff-usa.com/ NSF approved. Not shilling, just pointing it out.

Any suggestions as far as the tracking of website clicks and opened emails?  There are a lot of crumby companies out there, and I would love to know whose worthwhile.  I'm sure some folks on here have had some experience with reputable groups.   

Bonus points if the service is free.

Thanks.

Good stuff.

The first part Joe's explanation to #4 is often overlooked.

Advice is sometimes offered on this site not to showcase until you have size, speed, strength, or skills worth showcasing. And it is generally sound advice--IF you already know more or less where you stand.

However, many aspiring college players do not know where they stand and do not realize how many good ball players they are competing against. Going to a showcase--even if it's before you think you're quite ready--can sometimes be as beneficial for seeing and learning as it for being seen.

Teaching Elder posted:

Any suggestions as far as the tracking of website clicks and opened emails?  There are a lot of crumby companies out there, and I would love to know whose worthwhile.  I'm sure some folks on here have had some experience with reputable groups.   

Bonus points if the service is free.

Thanks.

More than a few. Go to your Chrome Web Store and search email tracking. You'll find a bunch integrated with Gmail.

Just want to keep adding to the topic...regarding strength and speed...

A physical therapist is a valuable addition to the "team." But I'm not referring to the PT deployed post-injury. Rather, a PT used proactively to correct deficiencies. 

A PT with knowledge of the game should be able to perform a full diagnosis and point out the weaknesses that need to be addressed to (1) improve performance and (2) prevent injury. Let me give you an example of both:

1. joemktgson always had trouble with his first two steps out of a sprint. No matter what we tried, e.g., different weight training, various speed drills, technique, etc., nothing worked to improve those first two steps. It was as if everything was in slow motion out of the gate. So we hypothesized that perhaps its a physical issue, and we brought him to his PT for the examination. Sure enough, it was an issue of hip tightness, so he was given a protocol to follow to loosen the hips and strengthen supporting muscles. End result: his 60 dropped by more than .3 of a second.
2. A friend of ours took our advice regarding proactive diagnosis for his 2016 position player, and the exam exposed an imbalance between right and left shoulders, where the throwing shoulder was considerably weaker. A few sessions later, the lack of balance was rectified, and his throws across the diamond improved by 2-3MPH.

End result from proactive PT? Improved performance, greater ability to push/pull more weights, and a higher level of injury prevention.

Required? No. Understated importance? Yes.

This is one of those "investments" that may or may not pay off, and is certainly not provable without a control group. Having said that, the aforementioned examples seem to show a posteriori results.

Your call.

Swampboy posted:

Good stuff.

The first part Joe's explanation to #4 is often overlooked.

Advice is sometimes offered on this site not to showcase until you have size, speed, strength, or skills worth showcasing. And it is generally sound advice--IF you already know more or less where you stand.

However, many aspiring college players do not know where they stand and do not realize how many good ball players they are competing against. Going to a showcase--even if it's before you think you're quite ready--can sometimes be as beneficial for seeing and learning as it for being seen.

How about going to watch one? Or do you feel it's more informational to be on the field realizing you can hold your own or have no business being there? I watched a Big East program's showcase style camp. My son had just started freshman year. I could easily see he would have fit into the "other players" category. I saw four legit prospects. I was told they were invited after being seen at a PG event.

When my son was a 5'11" 135 post freshman I sent him to a $125 showcase style camp sponsored by a local D1. I reminded him it's probably all local players trying to get noticed by a mediocre A10 program. When it was over he realized how much stronger he had to get if he wanted to play in a better program.

Exact same thing with my son.  5'10" 135 and 74- 76 mph.  He was dwarfed by most.  He learned a lesson.

We did the same. Small community showcase that raised money for a memorial to a local player. Lots of coaches from Iowa d3 schools--told son his best baseball was in front of him. A good learning experience. 

joemktg posted:

Just want to keep adding to the topic...regarding strength and speed...

A physical therapist is a valuable addition to the "team." But I'm not referring to the PT deployed post-injury. Rather, a PT used proactively to correct deficiencies. 

A PT with knowledge of the game should be able to perform a full diagnosis and point out the weaknesses that need to be addressed to (1) improve performance and (2) prevent injury. Let me give you an example of both:

1. joemktgson always had trouble with his first two steps out of a sprint. No matter what we tried, e.g., different weight training, various speed drills, technique, etc., nothing worked to improve those first two steps. It was as if everything was in slow motion out of the gate. So we hypothesized that perhaps its a physical issue, and we brought him to his PT for the examination. Sure enough, it was an issue of hip tightness, so he was given a protocol to follow to loosen the hips and strengthen supporting muscles. End result: his 60 dropped by more than .3 of a second.
2. A friend of ours took our advice regarding proactive diagnosis for his 2016 position player, and the exam exposed an imbalance between right and left shoulders, where the throwing shoulder was considerably weaker. A few sessions later, the lack of balance was rectified, and his throws across the diamond improved by 2-3MPH.

 

End result from proactive PT? Improved performance, greater ability to push/pull more weights, and a higher level of injury prevention.

Required? No. Understated importance? Yes.

This is one of those "investments" that may or may not pay off, and is certainly not provable without a control group. Having said that, the aforementioned examples seem to show a posteriori results.

Your call.

This is excellent advice. 

joemktg posted:

Some guidance for those looking to be recruited:

1. Consider the 4 S's: Skills, Strength, Speed, School. In other words, ahead of each quarter set goals, plan to attain those goals, include measureables that indicate achievement. Review at least once a month. If at all possible, employ professionals to assist. If not, then research what needs to be done.
2. Target your schools: Be specific. Start with 20-30, then narrow it down.
3. Create a digital presence, e.g., an online resume. And as a part of your digital presence, install Google Analytics so that you can track visitors. When you send emails, use an email tracking device so that you can see who opened and who clicked.
4. Showcase thyself: it allows you to see where you stand, how you compare, and based on that, improve. It also acts as content for your digital presence. PG is the leader in this space.
5. Communicate with RCs and HCs on a regular basis (HCs open and click more than RCs!!). Point them to your digital presence. Be sure that to use your HS and travel coaches as conduits for the RCs and HCs to reach you. Track everything.
6. Be a part of the best travel organization possible where you will play on a regular basis. 
7. Budget all of the aforementioned, and manage accordingly.

 

Joe

 

P.S. I reserve the right to add to this list. So there.

Joe, this is great stuff. One question for you: when? To elaborate, did joemktgson have those quarterly goals (for skills, strength, speed, school) all through high school? When did he start lifting seriously? When did he create a digital presence (Sophomore year?) 

Everything you suggest makes perfect sense, just wondering about timing.

2019Dad posted:

Joe, this is great stuff. One question for you: when? To elaborate, did joemktgson have those quarterly goals (for skills, strength, speed, school) all through high school? When did he start lifting seriously? When did he create a digital presence (Sophomore year?) 

Everything you suggest makes perfect sense, just wondering about timing.

1. We started collaborating on goals, strategies, tactics and corresponding measurements when he was in middle school. It took late in his HS career until it rooted in his cranium.
2. Lifting started when he was 12, but the first year was focused on the correct lifting techniques (light, light, light), band work, and plyo work. It wasn't until he was 13 when weights were added, and even then we ramped up carefully. But because of this infrastructure, he was able to accelerate the amount of weight so that he was lifting with varsity players during his first freshman semester. That carefully planned lifting schedule worked.
3. Digital presence: right after his freshman year and before the summer season. There was sufficient content after his freshman year to warrant a digital mechanism.

Reps: a broad word...

"Reps" means more than just how many swings, grounders, pitches, etc., although it absolutely includes the accounting of activity. Reps represents a mindset of doing, i.e., getting in your reps regardless of the obstacles (real or man-made). It's a focus, a determination that separates players into two groups: those who've honed their skills, and those who are "raw."

Hey: raw gets attention. No doubt! Raw abilities are admired by the scouting community, as everyone thinks they can take that raw and convert it into productivity. 

But take two equal players: one who is committed to the reps v. one who gets by on talent alone. Who wins? Reps.

The mindset needs to be a drive to get in the reps, and as a result, find ways to get in the reps regardless of circumstances. It's raining: get two buckets done in the garage into a net, mattress, whatever. It's cold: bundle up. We know more than a few players who have exchanged work hours at a local indoor facility for cage time. Got a paper due? Why wasn't it done earlier? Pay the price: get in the reps and get the paper done.

Reps. It's a state of mind.

joemktg posted:

Reps: a broad word...

"Reps" means more than just how many swings, grounders, pitches, etc., although it absolutely includes the accounting of activity. Reps represents a mindset of doing, i.e., getting in your reps regardless of the obstacles (real or man-made). It's a focus, a determination that separates players into two groups: those who've honed their skills, and those who are "raw."

Hey: raw gets attention. No doubt! Raw abilities are admired by the scouting community, as everyone thinks they can take that raw and convert it into productivity. 

But take two equal players: one who is committed to the reps v. one who gets by on talent alone. Who wins? Reps.

The mindset needs to be a drive to get in the reps, and as a result, find ways to get in the reps regardless of circumstances. It's raining: get two buckets done in the garage into a net, mattress, whatever. It's cold: bundle up. We know more than a few players who have exchanged work hours at a local indoor facility for cage time. Got a paper due? Why wasn't it done earlier? Pay the price: get in the reps and get the paper done.

Reps. It's a state of mind.

 

^^^  This...is why I am on this forum. 

So about protein...

If you're unsure as to the role of protein in muscle building, please Google before continuing. And please Google the protein quantity in an egg, a piece of fish, steak, etc.

The player needs roughly 1 gram of protein for every pound, so if a player wants to hit 200 pounds, he'll have to take in 200 grams of protein a day. And anything over 25 grams of protein per serving gets eliminated from the body via urinating, and that's for a 2 hour period, i.e., the next 25 grams can be ingested no earlier than 2 hours from the previous serving.

The impact in our example? Eight servings of protein a day over a 14 hour period. Now that's doable when the player is sitting on his rear end during August, but come school time, how the hell can you get this done?

There are a variety of methods to take in extra protein beyond the servings of eggs, meat, poultry, and fish. This includes:

• whey protein shakes: plain ol' whey protein powder mixed in with smoothies, or just added to water and gatorade mix.
• bars: some are efficient (small size vs. protein count), some taste like crap, etc. 
• gels: if you're not familiar, think of a juice packet that contains a protein based gel
• nuts: peanut butter, and even 17 cashews (gives you 25g of protein)

So let's go over a school day and how knucklehead can get in his protein:

• Wake up: eggs
• Snack #1 at school: a bar
• Lunch
• Snack #2 at school: gel
• Snack #3 at school: an 8oz bottle of water that contains whey protein and gatorade mix (premixed at home to take to school)
• Post workout: a gel
• Dinner
• Before bed: a shake

You get the idea. Quick word of caution: hydration is very important as he needs the water to properly process the protein.

This all sounds great, but there are obstacles:

• Mom or Dad have to keep the inventory and not run out.
• Mom or Dad has to prep this stuff for ding-a-ling in the morning.
• Stay away from sticking with only one source of protein. He'll get pretty sick of eating bars all the time. Mix it up every day.
• Ding-a-ling has to take this in, weekdays and weekends. It often falls apart on weekends, when he's running around doing this, that and the other. Discipline. We want him to do this on his own, so instruct and reinforce, not nag. 
• And those weekend tourneys? Yeah: don't fall short on the intake. That's on you, Mom or Dad.

The key to proper protein intake: plan, preparation and execution. And don't run out of this stuff. 

Nice joe, but players need to consume protein before they hit the bed every night too!

• "Before bed: a shake"

And that's especially important as there's calorie burning going on for these guys while they sleep.

Oops..missed that!! Good stuff.

Please keep 'em coming Joe, I love this "FWIW."  Absolutely amazing stuff you're sharing.  Thanks for taking the time to help out so many others with the valuable info. 

Golden thread?

Teaching Elder posted:

Golden thread?

It is for me.

Joe, this has been really useful. I have a follow-up question for you. If you remember, how did your son progress in lifting through high school? Say, his dead lift and squat close to max (maybe two or three reps) as a freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior?

My son (rising sophomore) is just starting to lift with his high school team (they did very little as freshmen), and I don't have a good sense of what a high-level progression would be -- I know this is one of the "your mileage may vary" type things, but I thought perhaps your son could serve as an example of what is possible on the far end of the bell curve.

Based on what I have seen so far, I suspect that most high school baseball players don't take lifting all that seriously, and I further suspect that it could be a real differentiator for someone who does take it seriously.

2019Dad posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Golden thread?

It is for me.

Joe, this has been really useful. I have a follow-up question for you. If you remember, how did your son progress in lifting through high school? Say, his dead lift and squat close to max (maybe two or three reps) as a freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior?

My son (rising sophomore) is just starting to lift with his high school team (they did very little as freshmen), and I don't have a good sense of what a high-level progression would be -- I know this is one of the "your mileage may vary" type things, but I thought perhaps your son could serve as an example of what is possible on the far end of the bell curve.

Based on what I have seen so far, I suspect that most high school baseball players don't take lifting all that seriously, and I further suspect that it could be a real differentiator for someone who does take it seriously.

I don't know if its a differentiator, as everything stems from the 5 tools, but it certainly helps the growth in all 5 tools.

The beginning was slow and methodical, and that's because (1) he had to learn proper lifting techniques, and (2) the stabilizing muscles needed to be built. You can't push big weight unless those stabilizers can support it. However, once those two factors were in place, then the weight increased in a quick, steady fashion. Think of a hockey stick curve. I cannot recall his max during his HS years, but it was significant. He was squatting reps at 500 as we couldn't put more plates on, so I'm confident he could've pushed over 600.

From the beginning, we used a personal trainer as the main means to build strength, size and flexibility. HS lifting is not sufficient, as its the same routine for all players when each player needs his own routine. And we preferred having someone with educated in kinesiology.

I'll touch on outside resources in another post...  

joemktg posted:

From the beginning, we used a personal trainer as the main means to build strength, size and flexibility. HS lifting is not sufficient, as its the same routine for all players when each player needs his own routine. And we preferred having someone with educated in kinesiology.

Wanted to chime in to agree with how important I think that is, especially at the beginning.   It is extremely important to learn how to do every lift with the correct technique and get in a week to week routine that builds as well as allows sufficient amount of rest in between workouts.

For all the $$$ parents spend on hitting lessons & pitching lessons, most families might be much better off spending that $$$ on a personal trainer & a math/science tutor 

JOMKTGT has great info in this thread and there are a few thing that some may overlook.  The amount of protein your body can use at one time and the hydration part.  Eating tons of protein is hard on the liver and kidneys (some studies discount this statement, but our doctors always cautioned us on very high protein intake), drinking tons of water to match helps not only with hydration, but makes it easier on the liver and the kidneys.

joemktg posted:

So about protein...

If you're unsure as to the role of protein in muscle building, please Google before continuing. And please Google the protein quantity in an egg, a piece of fish, steak, etc.

The player needs roughly 1 gram of protein for every pound, so if a player wants to hit 200 pounds, he'll have to take in 200 grams of protein a day. And anything over 25 grams of protein per serving gets eliminated from the body via urinating, and that's for a 2 hour period, i.e., the next 25 grams can be ingested no earlier than 2 hours from the previous serving.

The impact in our example? Eight servings of protein a day over a 14 hour period. Now that's doable when the player is sitting on his rear end during August, but come school time, how the hell can you get this done?

There are a variety of methods to take in extra protein beyond the servings of eggs, meat, poultry, and fish. This includes:

• whey protein shakes: plain ol' whey protein powder mixed in with smoothies, or just added to water and gatorade mix.
• bars: some are efficient (small size vs. protein count), some taste like crap, etc. 
• gels: if you're not familiar, think of a juice packet that contains a protein based gel
• nuts: peanut butter, and even 17 cashews (gives you 25g of protein)

 

So let's go over a school day and how knucklehead can get in his protein:

• Wake up: eggs
• Snack #1 at school: a bar
• Lunch
• Snack #2 at school: gel
• Snack #3 at school: an 8oz bottle of water that contains whey protein and gatorade mix (premixed at home to take to school)
• Post workout: a gel
• Dinner
• Before bed: a shake

 

You get the idea. Quick word of caution: hydration is very important as he needs the water to properly process the protein.

This all sounds great, but there are obstacles:

• Mom or Dad have to keep the inventory and not run out.
• Mom or Dad has to prep this stuff for ding-a-ling in the morning.
• Stay away from sticking with only one source of protein. He'll get pretty sick of eating bars all the time. Mix it up every day.
• Ding-a-ling has to take this in, weekdays and weekends. It often falls apart on weekends, when he's running around doing this, that and the other. Discipline. We want him to do this on his own, so instruct and reinforce, not nag. 
• And those weekend tourneys? Yeah: don't fall short on the intake. That's on you, Mom or Dad.

 

The key to proper protein intake: plan, preparation and execution. And don't run out of this stuff. 

A lot of really good info in this thread so far.

Just wanted to add some additional thoughts on protein:

-Preparation is key.  I'll echo what Joe said about Mom and Dad being key support figures.  Put a couple pounds of chicken breast in the crockpot before bed, shred in the morning.  Boom, protein for several meals.  Put some hot sauce or taco seasoning for variety.  Boil a dozen eggs and have them in the fridge to eliminate the "I-don't-have-time-for-breakfast" excuse - they can eat on the way to school/games/practice.

-The whey protein/Gatorade mix is AWESOME.  Vanilla flavored whey mixed with any of the traditional Gatorade flavors (lemon lime, orange, fruit punch) is tasty stuff.  If you're having trouble thinking how that could possibly be good, think orange Gatorade + vanilla whey = orange sherbet.  One thought though - I would put more than 8 oz of water.  A single serving of Gatorade has about 23 g of carbs, a scoop of whey has about 24 g of protein - I'd make it more like 20 oz of water.

-Again echoing Joe - CONSISTENCY IS KING.  If you don't follow the routine on weekends, you're missing out on a lot of benefits.  Think if you eat 4 meals a day - that's 28 meals a week.  If you skip out on eating well on weekends, you are only eating 20/28 good meals (71% of your meals).  Do you only want to get 71% of the results you could get?

Sorry to admit that this is new to me. To clarify so I get it:

Kid #1:  6' 3",  160 lbs, very skinny, almost invisible from the side.

Kid #2:  5' 10", 190 lbs, has muscles but lots of babyfat too.

Kid #3:  5' 11", 165 lbs, very lean and ripped.

All 3 want to get to 200lbs.  All 3 need to consume 200g of protein per day?

Right?

Edit to ask also:  Do Kids #1 and #2 need to consume just 170g per day, as they need to get to 170lbs before they can get to 200 lbs?

3and2Fastball posted:

joemktg posted:

From the beginning, we used a personal trainer as the main means to build strength, size and flexibility. HS lifting is not sufficient, as its the same routine for all players when each player needs his own routine. And we preferred having someone with educated in kinesiology.

Wanted to chime in to agree with how important I think that is, especially at the beginning.   It is extremely important to learn how to do every lift with the correct technique and get in a week to week routine that builds as well as allows sufficient amount of rest in between workouts.

For all the $$$ parents spend on hitting lessons & pitching lessons, most families might be much better off spending that $$$ on a personal trainer & a math/science tutor 

Not going to argue with the math/science tutor piece....

I'm a little biased as a strength coach, but agree with money spent on focused efforts early on to learn the SAFE and PROPER execution of key lifts, incorporated into a smart program, will go along way towards improving 2 of Joe's S's: Strength and Speed.  Not to mention injury prevention, kinesthetic awareness leading to improved overall athleticism, balanced development, etc.....

JCG posted:

Sorry to admit that this is new to me. To clarify so I get it:

Kid #1:  6' 3",  160 lbs, very skinny, almost invisible from the side.

Kid #2:  5' 10", 190 lbs, has muscles but lots of babyfat too.

Kid #3:  5' 11", 165 lbs, very lean and ripped.

All 3 want to get to 200lbs.  All 3 need to consume 200g of protein per day?

Right?

Edit to ask also:  Do Kids #1 and #2 need to consume just 170g per day, as they need to get to 170lbs before they can get to 200 lbs?

There are many ways to get to 200 lbs, but my approach for any of your example kids (I'm assuming they are just made up examples?) would not include eating 200 grams of protein per day.

I would stick with 0.8 to 1.0 gram of protein per pound of CURRENT bodyweight, not what you want your bodyweight to be.  So the amount of protein per day will naturally go up as weight goes up.

Just my initial thoughts, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

Just my initial thoughts, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

People keep saying that.   What are you guys doing with all of these dead cats?

Eating becomes a chore

So if I weigh 200 and want to get to 190, I just have to eat 19 ounces of protein a day. 

2forU posted:

Eating becomes a chore

NO DOUBT!!! There's planning, buying, cooking/prepping, packing, consuming, tracking, measurements, etc., etc. 

Let me say this: strength training is a chore! But without proper nutrition, it's close to a complete waste of time relative to building size and strength. So if you're going to invest in weight training, understand the complete investment that needs to be made.

No having said THAT: once the player is executing the movements properly, and everyone makes the FULL investment, those results will come in rather quickly. Again, think of a hockey stick line chart. 

For moms and dads who cook. Buy a couple of muffin pans with larger muffin cups. Cut up whatever veggies your son likes, can also include cooked chicken or turkey bacon.  Fill halfway with the above, spraying with pam first for easy removal. Use egg whites for 3/4 of the cups, and whole egg for others. Great easy breakfast or betime snack!  I make 5 days worth at a time or more. Kind of breaks the boredom of hard boiled eggs.  Bake 350 until eggs are firm, maybe 20 minutes. Convection ovens time may vary.

Great breakfast for mom and dad as well.

Matt Reiland posted:

JCG posted:

Sorry to admit that this is new to me. To clarify so I get it:

Kid #1:  6' 3",  160 lbs, very skinny, almost invisible from the side.

Kid #2:  5' 10", 190 lbs, has muscles but lots of babyfat too.

Kid #3:  5' 11", 165 lbs, very lean and ripped.

All 3 want to get to 200lbs.  All 3 need to consume 200g of protein per day?

Right?

Edit to ask also:  Do Kids #1 and #2 need to consume just 170g per day, as they need to get to 170lbs before they can get to 200 lbs?

There are many ways to get to 200 lbs, but my approach for any of your example kids (I'm assuming they are just made up examples?) would not include eating 200 grams of protein per day.

I would stick with 0.8 to 1.0 gram of protein per pound of CURRENT bodyweight, not what you want your bodyweight to be.  So the amount of protein per day will naturally go up as weight goes up.

Just my initial thoughts, there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

OK that makes sense and I'm also guessing that's what Joe meant. As for these examples,  they are common types, but #3 is exactly my 2017.  It's harder for him eat more than is to get to the gym.

joemktg posted:

Just want to keep adding to the topic...regarding strength and speed...

A physical therapist is a valuable addition to the "team." But I'm not referring to the PT deployed post-injury. Rather, a PT used proactively to correct deficiencies. 

A PT with knowledge of the game should be able to perform a full diagnosis and point out the weaknesses that need to be addressed to (1) improve performance and (2) prevent injury. Let me give you an example of both:

1. joemktgson always had trouble with his first two steps out of a sprint. No matter what we tried, e.g., different weight training, various speed drills, technique, etc., nothing worked to improve those first two steps. It was as if everything was in slow motion out of the gate. So we hypothesized that perhaps its a physical issue, and we brought him to his PT for the examination. Sure enough, it was an issue of hip tightness, so he was given a protocol to follow to loosen the hips and strengthen supporting muscles. End result: his 60 dropped by more than .3 of a second.
2. A friend of ours took our advice regarding proactive diagnosis for his 2016 position player, and the exam exposed an imbalance between right and left shoulders, where the throwing shoulder was considerably weaker. A few sessions later, the lack of balance was rectified, and his throws across the diamond improved by 2-3MPH.

 

End result from proactive PT? Improved performance, greater ability to push/pull more weights, and a higher level of injury prevention.

Required? No. Understated importance? Yes.

This is one of those "investments" that may or may not pay off, and is certainly not provable without a control group. Having said that, the aforementioned examples seem to show a posteriori results.

Your call.

You're from GA, correct? If so, do you have a recommendation for a PT?

I just want to know what has happened to our cat.

Teaching Elder posted:

I just want to know what has happened to our cat.

Keep looking. You'll find kitty.

Elijah, local enterprising young boys + skinning = local Chinese place makes great profits

Elijah posted:

You're from GA, correct? If so, do you have a recommendation for a PT?

Not from GA. 

Is all of this kind of like how there are different ways to clean a fish?

Anyone know if there's more than one way to shuck corn?

JCG posted:

OK that makes sense and I'm also guessing that's what Joe meant. As for these examples,  they are common types, but #3 is exactly my 2017.  It's harder for him eat more than is to get to the gym.

Yes it is. There's a whole lotta selling needed. If your 2017 has a girlfriend, you may want to recruit her to support the issue.

Joe Would you please provide a brand name for these gels.  The only ones I know of are Carb based that I use for distance running and biking.  

• gels: if you're not familiar, think of a juice packet that contains a protein based gel

The gel packs you mentioned that are Carb based are highly recommended for players during multiple game days.  Easily taken by the body and provide what the body needs for energy to keep going.

My 2019 still thinks the only reason to eat is for pleasure.  

Any thoughts on Creatine?  Many of my son's football player friends take it, including one who has 2 MD's for parents, and he wants to follow them.   I don't see any red flags when Googling it, but I also can't imagine that it's anywhere near as useful as getting more protein to the kid's body.

Creatine supplement serves a specific purpose.  Do your homework and decide if you feel its good for your player.  Mine began using it when he went to college as directed by their nutritionist.

Great stuff Joe. Thank you for sharing.

Have you read or heard anything about athletes taking Right Stuff while taking creatine? I believe you retain water when taking creatine and since the Right Stuff is a hydration supplement, I was wondering if they address it at all or if you have any first hand info on it.

Thanks.

Agree with TPM.  Creatine is widely used and researched, but understand what it does and whether that fits into your nutrition plan.  Creatine is on a very, very short list of supplements that are actually beneficial.

CAVEAT - Get your nutrition in order before trying some "magic" supplement.  There aren't any magic (legal) supplements that will overcome a crappy diet.  You're wasting your money taking supplements on top of a standard high school kid's diet, so fix that first.

I like TPM's suggestions too, the breakfast egg muffins are great! Get those veggies and fruits in your boys too, I'm sure it goes without saying but some may not realize that with all that protein they take in they WILL be constipated.  Hydration plays a big part in keeping the GI moving too, and it will help so much with keeping their skin clear.  All this advice about hydration,  if it was already stated, forgive me, but refraining from what makes you dehydrated is another part, and the biggest culprit of that is sugar. Soda especially.  Ever drank pickle juice? It's  very hydrating.  Vinegar is the key. Vinegar, get ACV with the Mother, mix with honey and lemon as well.  Helps with electrolytes without Gatorade.  Fresh limeade is great, sweetened with stevia.  

If your son is feeling miserable on this diet of added protein then they will not stick with it.  I went on a high protein diet for a couple years, cut out all sugar and non veg carbs, so kind of know from experience of what can go wrong,  and how it feels, lol!  Macadamia nuts are another protein that helps with digestion. Do salads, like Taco Salad or Cobb Salad (loaded with turkey and bacon)! Those are good mixes of protein with veg.

Smoothies help my boys alot to get a variety of nutrients....Get bags of raw spinach, blend it all up in a blender and pour into ice cube trays and freeze and store in a gallon ziploc, then pop in a spinach cube every smoothie, it's quite flavorless! Whalah! Veggies! For easy access, I keep all smoothie items on the door of the freezer (blueberries, strawberries, mango, frozen bananas -(were about to turn brown before used and peeled and wrapped in saran), pineapple, peaches, coconut chips, etc.  Also, peanut butter POWDER is a great mix in for creamy flavored smoothies.

I bought a Ninja/Nutri Bullet single smoothie machine so my boys could use it - and will easily travel to college!  Buy a bulk pack of insulated to-go cups at Sams club or similar with lids, plus straws and smoothies on the run every day out the door, so easy!

Also, bone broth. Don't get me started. Love it. Fish . Mmm. Good protein sources.  Find meat sources that don't have tons of nitrites/nitrates/ additives.  I really don't want my boys to turn into some kind of he-man science experiment. My 16 year old is very fit, muscular/strong build and good skin.  To us, it's more of a marathon. Not a sprint. 

SDR posted:

Joe Would you please provide a brand name for these gels.  The only ones I know of are Carb based that I use for distance running and biking.  

• gels: if you're not familiar, think of a juice packet that contains a protein based gel

Go here to see a collection: https://thefeed.com/ 

Turn 2 posted:

Great stuff Joe. Thank you for sharing.

Have you read or heard anything about athletes taking Right Stuff while taking creatine? I believe you retain water when taking creatine and since the Right Stuff is a hydration supplement, I was wondering if they address it at all or if you have any first hand info on it.

Thanks.

 

 

 

Interesting thought: haven't heard anything.

If your son hasn't used creatine but desires to, be sure to run it by a nutritionist or similar professional (per TPM's recommendation).  Creatine puts stress on the kidneys.

A quick thought about the use of professionals to supplement your son's training...

Two kinds of professionals: one for on-the-field activity, and one for off-the-field.

If I had to prioritize given limited resources:

1. For POs: pitching instruction
2. For Position Players: hitting instruction
3. Strength training
4. For Position Players: fielding instruction
5. Physical Therapy (proactive, not reactive)
6. Nutritional guidance
7. Eye examinations
8. Speed training

Have we engaged with all of these professionals at one time or another? Yes. Consistently? #'s 2 and 3, and the others on an as-desired basis.

Are we made of money? No. Is there a money tree in the backyard? Haven't found it yet. So we've always been careful about how we budget for this, and making decisions based on ROI and what we could do on our own, given proper research.

Here's the big factor that mucks everything up: we're dealing with teenagers, and by definition, we as parents don't know crapola. Nature of the beast. He's going to listen to a trusted outsider before he listens to you. Two examples:

1) I'm very knowledgeable about nutrition, given my lifting background. But there was nothing I could say that would be taken as gospel, and after a while I just needed a professional to come in and lay down parameter, which by the way, was exactly the same as what I was saying! 

2) Acquaintance of ours played professionally, and is full of on-the-field baseball knowledge. Was he a source of expertise for his son? Nope!

Sometimes you have to pull in the big guns because you are you, and son is son, and that's just the way it is.

^^^^This!

Although it is getting better.

 On second thought.  He probably shouldn't listen to anything I teach about baseball.

I'd always say to joemktgson: "You practice to practice, and you practice to play."

Here's what I meant by that...

Team practices are generally insufficient for position player: too many players = not enough reps. As a result, a player cannot improve at the rate required to continue to grow and succeed because baseball is a game of repetition, e.g., number of swings, number of grounders/flies, number of throws, etc. The math proves this to be correct: assuming 7 infielders, a player will receive 1/7th the number of reps during X time vs. on their own for the same X. So if improvement is desired, it doesn't make sense to rely on improvement solely during practices when X time on your own yields a multiple of 7 more reps.

So what's the purpose of a team practice? Outside of team plays such as cuts, DPs, bunting plays, etc., the practice focuses on the individual and how the individual is performing relative to his peers. And why is that important? That's how the coach will determine playing time. As a result, it is paramount that the player goes into the team practice ready to perform at the highest level so as to secure playing time.

And how does your son perform at the highest level? PRACTICE! And that's practice on his own. The player practices on his own to be prepared for team practices, and the team practices will determine playing time.  "You practice to practice, and you practice to play."

I'll post practice options next time around.

Joe