To All (Yes you too Linear)
www.baseballhalloffame.org
Search for Johnny Bench and watch his video clip as he throws out a runner at 2nd. Looks to me like gaining ground, momentum going forward. This is how I want my catchers to throw.
Look Under Hall of Famers, scroll down until you see Johnny bench
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
Right foot behind left foot (offset) Leave your right foot planted, rotate knees so they face 2bman and 1bman (or thereabouts). You now have separation with shoulders still not pointed to secondbase because you are catching the inside pitch.
Got the 08 on the ground showing me this....Question.. When do you want him to offset the feet? Is this happening as the pitch is coming?... or before?
feet cannot be offset before because you still have to be able to block the ball. You must be squared up.
The Bench clip is right on the money. Although I can't see how that is called "gaining ground". His right foot replaces right in the left ones track. He actually ends up a little more forward than you would like because of the pitch being low and out and the body getting ahead. Optimal on all other pitches will be right up against in the vicinity of the left side 45 degree angle of the plate. All this stuff about jab steps and feet movement on the pitch depending on location and yadda yadda is grabbing straws. Watch the Bench clip and that is as good as it gets. If the ball gets any further outside then you reach with the right planted and load and throw. Anything else, even inside, the feet remain the same and you reach and rake in. A great arm will NEVER make up for bad feet and hands. But great feet and hands will ALWAYS make up for an average arm. BEWARE-- Guys teaching Catchers throwing that haven't been there!! When you find out they HAVE been there, then ask for a batting avg. If they caught in pro ball and hit .280 and above, they either have a lot of $$$ now, or they weren't there for their catch and throw skills.
quote:Originally posted by troy99:quote:Originally posted by Linear:
Right foot behind left foot (offset) Leave your right foot planted, rotate knees so they face 2bman and 1bman (or thereabouts). You now have separation with shoulders still not pointed to secondbase because you are catching the inside pitch.
Got the 08 on the ground showing me this....Question.. When do you want him to offset the feet? Is this happening as the pitch is coming?... or before?
The offset is roughly toe to instep and it is in the stance. There is no relationship between the off set and the ability to block balls. You can easily swing your knees from both sqaure to the pitcher, even though the feet are offset, to left knee to the right the 2B and the right knee at the 2B, to both extremes.
You can actually do it without an offset, but I like the offset. Gets me a better unload.
quote:Originally posted by The Mayor:
...BEWARE-- Guys teaching Catchers throwing that haven't been there...
Never has there been a truer statement made on any baseball topic in any baseball forum.
I feel several of the posters in this thread have caught. But, I know for a fact that a very high percentage of coaches have never caught and are totally clueless. They repeat what they've heard and don't do a very good job of that.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:quote:Originally posted by The Mayor:
...BEWARE-- Guys teaching Catchers throwing that haven't been there...
Never has there been a truer statement made on any baseball topic in any baseball forum.
I feel several of the posters in this thread have caught. But, I know for a fact that a very high percentage of coaches have never caught and are totally clueless. They repeat what they've heard and don't do a very good job of that.
You are right on the money there Linear and Mayor. I can't tell you how hard it is to see some coaches working with their catchers. Very few people have the gift to teach it and I respect those in this thread that have made good points. It is good conversation and fun to hear different view points.
when you replace your feet, your legs are at a standstill and now it becomes an all throw.
there needs to be some type of movement coming forward in the throw weather it is a couple of inches or a couple of feet... this allows you to drive off your back leg when you throw and use your entire body instead of just your arm...... unless you throw 85+ down to second in which you could throw any way that works -- since most kids or adults arent 85+ down to second, you better incorporate your legs
there needs to be some type of movement coming forward in the throw weather it is a couple of inches or a couple of feet... this allows you to drive off your back leg when you throw and use your entire body instead of just your arm...... unless you throw 85+ down to second in which you could throw any way that works -- since most kids or adults arent 85+ down to second, you better incorporate your legs
A catcher's footwork will vary depending on where the pitch is. However, at the time of the release he should be looking directly over his left shoulder followed by the elbow. At that stage of the throwing motion, a catcher should look identical to a pitcher breaking there hands during the throwing motion.
good point... if your front shoulder is open, your most likely to have some tail on it and it might very well end up in center
Linear,
I have enjoyed your posts. While I have some catching experience, I'd be lying to say it was my specialty. Would you be willing to share any info on what you teach your catchers??
I have enjoyed your posts. While I have some catching experience, I'd be lying to say it was my specialty. Would you be willing to share any info on what you teach your catchers??
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
I feel several of the posters in this thread have caught. But, I know for a fact that a very high percentage of coaches have never caught and are totally clueless. They repeat what they've heard and don't do a very good job of that.
a number of college coaches will agree that catching is one of the positions that is difficult to instruct on because not every school has an ex catcher as an assistant... this might be why catchers fundamentals change so drastically once they get to pro ball...
since i was a former catcher and played college
and pro, i feel i know a little about catch and
throw.however,i was a much better hitting teacher than catching[funny cause i was a real
top catcher]that said,a friend of mine has to be
the best catching instructer around[i think everyone who knows wally horstman would agree].
he works with some of the top major and minor
league catchers.we sat around and discussed some
of the statements on this topic that were made.
he doesn't teach going out and gaining ground.
also,i saw one of the posters who is a proponent
of gaining ground give a lesson to some players
and had an interesting way of teaching them this
method,he put his foot on their lower back and
pushed them forward.he is a perfect example of,
just because you played does not mean you can
teach[catchaprospect].i am not knocking anyones
statements and believe if you can get the job
done and it works,than do it.but if you would like to teach a player the[right]way of doing
it,try to get hold of wally.players fly in from all over the country to work with this guy.i
am sure there are some of you out there that
will atest to this with your own experience with
this instructer.
thank you
and pro, i feel i know a little about catch and
throw.however,i was a much better hitting teacher than catching[funny cause i was a real
top catcher]that said,a friend of mine has to be
the best catching instructer around[i think everyone who knows wally horstman would agree].
he works with some of the top major and minor
league catchers.we sat around and discussed some
of the statements on this topic that were made.
he doesn't teach going out and gaining ground.
also,i saw one of the posters who is a proponent
of gaining ground give a lesson to some players
and had an interesting way of teaching them this
method,he put his foot on their lower back and
pushed them forward.he is a perfect example of,
just because you played does not mean you can
teach[catchaprospect].i am not knocking anyones
statements and believe if you can get the job
done and it works,than do it.but if you would like to teach a player the[right]way of doing
it,try to get hold of wally.players fly in from all over the country to work with this guy.i
am sure there are some of you out there that
will atest to this with your own experience with
this instructer.
thank you
"since i was a former catcher and played college
and pro, i feel i know a little about catch and
throw".
Sounds like an intersting debate...What professional team did you play for and what years?
and pro, i feel i know a little about catch and
throw".
Sounds like an intersting debate...What professional team did you play for and what years?
here we go again... for starters, in all my years i've played (11) and all the organizations i've been with (6) and all the teams, players, and coaches i've crossed paths with (a ton), i have never heard of catching and wally horstman mentioned in the same breath. maybe i just never ran into him but i tried to google him and couldnt find anything (i'm always open to catching discussions)
people have different methods of teaching which translates into results... if you "was a former catcher and played college and pro" then you should know you teach to the individual. if you dont understand pushing someone from behind, let me explain it to you ..... what we are trying to do is gain momentum... as the ball starts to cross the plate our lower half starts to lean forward -- once it reaches its breaking point- momentum carries us forward in order to use our legs....... you push the student from behind and tell him to focus on getting to the throwing position because you are supplying the momentum for him.... as you push him tell him to get his right leg under his body and keep the weight on his back leg -- other wise he will fall... once you do this a couple of times tell them to drive out by using their legs. it shows them they can be just as quick by using their legs, cutting down the distance to 2nd, and have more velocity on the ball rather than doing a jump pivot and using all arm.
the one comment that gets me is "i feel i know a little about catch and throw. however,i was a much better hitting teacher than catching[funny cause i was a real top catcher]" i always let my reputation behind the plate speak for itself, i never had to tell someone how good i was. i've mentioned my background in pro ball and i will argue the fundamentals of catching all day (to pass on info and to hear new things)....it just sounds like you were more of an offensive guy instead of a defensive guy..... in other words, before you make a judgement on a method and post it ... you should maybe PM someone to at least find out why they teach that way... only because there were many questions/comments about the way i receive, block, (and teach) until people actually saw the pictures i sent showing the methods.
if a kid has a strong arm you can do other things ... if he doesnt, you have to use his legs and body more
people have different methods of teaching which translates into results... if you "was a former catcher and played college and pro" then you should know you teach to the individual. if you dont understand pushing someone from behind, let me explain it to you ..... what we are trying to do is gain momentum... as the ball starts to cross the plate our lower half starts to lean forward -- once it reaches its breaking point- momentum carries us forward in order to use our legs....... you push the student from behind and tell him to focus on getting to the throwing position because you are supplying the momentum for him.... as you push him tell him to get his right leg under his body and keep the weight on his back leg -- other wise he will fall... once you do this a couple of times tell them to drive out by using their legs. it shows them they can be just as quick by using their legs, cutting down the distance to 2nd, and have more velocity on the ball rather than doing a jump pivot and using all arm.
the one comment that gets me is "i feel i know a little about catch and throw. however,i was a much better hitting teacher than catching[funny cause i was a real top catcher]" i always let my reputation behind the plate speak for itself, i never had to tell someone how good i was. i've mentioned my background in pro ball and i will argue the fundamentals of catching all day (to pass on info and to hear new things)....it just sounds like you were more of an offensive guy instead of a defensive guy..... in other words, before you make a judgement on a method and post it ... you should maybe PM someone to at least find out why they teach that way... only because there were many questions/comments about the way i receive, block, (and teach) until people actually saw the pictures i sent showing the methods.
if a kid has a strong arm you can do other things ... if he doesnt, you have to use his legs and body more
FWIW, my older son attended a Paul Loduca camp last year. Instead of pushing my son forward, he simply held a bat over his head. If my son popped straight up (which he did 
) instead of popping up while moving forward, he'd smack his head on the bat (which he did 
).
) instead of popping up while moving forward, he'd smack his head on the bat (which he did
I believe that pushing the player from behind is a successful method of teaching throwing mechanics. It should be used to give the player a feel and should not be used if he is going to release the ball, only use during reps where the player will not be throwing. How, when and why an instruction will used this method is based on the players strengths and weaknesses.
both solid points from roger tomas and brian weingart... ive used the bat also to force the kids to stay low and go ......
ps. to j.bags... if you would like i can send you a video from a catching camp i ran
ps. to j.bags... if you would like i can send you a video from a catching camp i ran
snuz,your wise guy comment about horstman is
very classy.you and i will finish this someplace
else,and we will.
very classy.you and i will finish this someplace
else,and we will.
Honestly, if you go to 5 different camps, you'll probably hear 5 different ways to throw to second. You have 5 different coaches, 5 different ways to throw to second. 5 different catchers, probably 5 different ways to throw to second. But what you got to realize is that everything has to stay very simple, or at least as simple as it can. I could go on forever explianing it, but you know your throwdowns are good when everything is automatic and everything keeps moving.
The most important point to this:
If you ever played hot wheels and with those eletric tracks or whatever that were in a circle, and that relates to the throwing process down to second base...
1. the pitcher throws the ball- the hotwheel car takes off
2. the catcher catches the back and USES THE FORCE BY THE BALL THROWN FROM THE PITCHER to load up and keep that ball moving CONTINUOUSLY from the mitt to the transfer to the release. The ball should NEVER STOP!
thus the way it realtes to hotwheels is that it starts from the pitcher and circles back and comes the other way back to second in that circular track as it should. Never do you see the car stop in the hotwheels track, nor should there be any split second stoppages throwing down to get the guy at second base.
The most important point to this:
If you ever played hot wheels and with those eletric tracks or whatever that were in a circle, and that relates to the throwing process down to second base...
1. the pitcher throws the ball- the hotwheel car takes off
2. the catcher catches the back and USES THE FORCE BY THE BALL THROWN FROM THE PITCHER to load up and keep that ball moving CONTINUOUSLY from the mitt to the transfer to the release. The ball should NEVER STOP!
thus the way it realtes to hotwheels is that it starts from the pitcher and circles back and comes the other way back to second in that circular track as it should. Never do you see the car stop in the hotwheels track, nor should there be any split second stoppages throwing down to get the guy at second base.
here is a link to a bit of info on Wally HORSMAN
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/mike_berardino/news/2001/03/12/berardino_insider/ -
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/mike_berardino/news/2001/03/12/berardino_insider/ -
Here is the link to Wally:
http://www.buckydentbaseballschool.com/staff_horsman.html
My son visited him at Bucky Dents a few years back. It was one of the most worth while experiences in my sons career. He took him down to bear bones and an hour later had him flying high. His teaching was outstanding and the way he worked and explained every step was fantastic. My son still talks about it years later.
I also watched Chris work this past June and I have to agree. There is not a set way for every kid. Size, strength, experience, foot speed, quicknes and arm strength are just some of the factors that need to be evaluated. What works for an older stronger player may not for a 14 year old. I like the way Chris handles the young players. He gets right there with them and not only talks but can demonstrate every move.
What Wally saw in my son and the way he taught him has elevated his game to where he could have the opportunity to compete at the next level.
http://www.buckydentbaseballschool.com/staff_horsman.html
My son visited him at Bucky Dents a few years back. It was one of the most worth while experiences in my sons career. He took him down to bear bones and an hour later had him flying high. His teaching was outstanding and the way he worked and explained every step was fantastic. My son still talks about it years later.
I also watched Chris work this past June and I have to agree. There is not a set way for every kid. Size, strength, experience, foot speed, quicknes and arm strength are just some of the factors that need to be evaluated. What works for an older stronger player may not for a 14 year old. I like the way Chris handles the young players. He gets right there with them and not only talks but can demonstrate every move.
What Wally saw in my son and the way he taught him has elevated his game to where he could have the opportunity to compete at the next level.
Thanks for the links... i looked up his bio at the bucky dent baseball school... its always good to find people, like myself, who are dedicated to the development of catchers across the country
and the hot wheels analogy is absolutely histerical.. not because it involves hot wheels, but because it is so true... just another way to explain it -- once again, that is great
and the hot wheels analogy is absolutely histerical.. not because it involves hot wheels, but because it is so true... just another way to explain it -- once again, that is great
[quote]snuz,your wise guy comment about horstman is
very classy.quote]
dear mark (j.bags),
i dont think there were any "wise comments" at all like you said. honestly, i never heard of the guy when i played pro ball because we never crossed paths. i never attended bucky dents school so i would never have had the chance to meet him. would i like to discuss methods with him - sure, because its about development (its not about myself, wally, you or anyone else -- its about the kids getting better). you have my number, so call me... and i'll leave it at that.
very classy.quote]
dear mark (j.bags),
i dont think there were any "wise comments" at all like you said. honestly, i never heard of the guy when i played pro ball because we never crossed paths. i never attended bucky dents school so i would never have had the chance to meet him. would i like to discuss methods with him - sure, because its about development (its not about myself, wally, you or anyone else -- its about the kids getting better). you have my number, so call me... and i'll leave it at that.
