Tiger, throw those last two hitters inside and see what happens......
TR,
I bet you remember this kid from Long Island who held the bat above the shoulder.
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=18&w=4&n=1&c=4&m=24&s=0&y=1&z=9&l=0
I bet you remember this kid from Long Island who held the bat above the shoulder.
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=18&w=4&n=1&c=4&m=24&s=0&y=1&z=9&l=0
That bat gets lowered to his armpits way before he starts swinging.....
BlueDog,
On the topic of hand position...agree that most MLB hitters launch from arm pit/rear shoulder area regardless of hand position prior to pitch which is more of a comfort thing.
Is it fair to say that launch position of hands remains constant regardless of pitch location as adjusting one's posture should set swing plane?
On the topic of hand position...agree that most MLB hitters launch from arm pit/rear shoulder area regardless of hand position prior to pitch which is more of a comfort thing.
Is it fair to say that launch position of hands remains constant regardless of pitch location as adjusting one's posture should set swing plane?
NYdad, yes......That's correct..... 
BlueDog, thank you sir...
NYdad, the load in the shoulders should hold the arm and hand position at a constant position during the swing....
And, the shoulder load should be held until ball contact.....At that point, everything gets released into the ball.....Posture playing a crucial role....
And, the shoulder load should be held until ball contact.....At that point, everything gets released into the ball.....Posture playing a crucial role....
The reason the hands should not be above the armpit is because they need to go back and in, not just back.....Bonds is a great example to study on this.....He actually brings his hands in, then back......
Get some tension in the scapulas when you walk into the box...Set the box (hands and arms) with a scapula load right off.....
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
Blue Dog where did you play? Where do you coach? Where have you coached? Who have you instructed? Who do you instruct?
Where can we come to see the kids that you have instructed?
I would be very surprised to see a reply to this one!!! Nothing yet.
Doggie,
Scapula this and rotate that. LOL
As MC Hammer said - "Cant touch this".
Its Hammer time. LOL
On the field - not on the web.
Now - Break It Down!
Scapula this and rotate that. LOL
As MC Hammer said - "Cant touch this".
Its Hammer time. LOL
On the field - not on the web.
Now - Break It Down!
Bluedog,
Now that I am not moderating anymore - I hope you know I am just having fun with you.
Like skeet shooting
You cant use the moderating angle as a defense anymore.
Just "mano a mano" now brother. Like old times.
Just move and slide - Break it down!
Its Hammer Time
LOL
Now that I am not moderating anymore - I hope you know I am just having fun with you.
Like skeet shooting
You cant use the moderating angle as a defense anymore.
Just "mano a mano" now brother. Like old times.
Just move and slide - Break it down!
Its Hammer Time
LOL
CatchingCoach, are you another one of those High School coaches who sit back and teach old technique?
Blue dog makes a very important observation:
"The reason the hands should not be above the armpit is because they need to go back and in, not just back.....Bonds is a great example to study on this.....He actually brings his hands in, then back."
It is important to understand more,in my opinion, about the HOW and WHY of "getting the hands in"
I find it is most useful thinking of this "analytically" (cause and effect) :
The perfect swing is about the adjustment you make (Epstein).
The more outside the pitch, the longer the handpath radius (radius of "CHP"/load/resistance to rotation- Mankin).
The more outside the pitch,the more the hands need to load IN (learning from plane control in golf).
The more inside out the plane (more the hands are in),the more the weight must shift forward (golf).
The more outside the location in hitting,the more weight shifts forward (TO front leg- Lau,more front leg flex - Mankin).
When you "wind the rubberband" (which is the right kind of "rotation into toe touch" where the hips are turning open lead by the front leg turning open so front foot is open at toetouch with weight slightly forward - Epstein)the lead leg is synched/slaved to the "up and over" of the hands (synched/simutaneous EXternal rotation of back arm and lead leg, arm "permitting" leg to go first (arm action is King) to increase rate of body coil during "rubberbband winding" to get right dynamic coil/stretch (rate of stretch needs to steadily increase until end of "cusp" - xfactor stretch/skilltechnologies).
To prepare for a well timed and synched "up and over"/load/coil,what is more essential than absolute position of hands is a UNIVERSAL "arm action sequence" (Hodge- which applies to overhand throw as well).
Back forearm is pronated before/during inward turn (and kept that way,back palm facing pitcher,bat tilted forward some),back arm (and front leg) is internally rotated as hips cok (and kept that way,back arm is aBducted (back elbow comes up) and extended (back elbow points more behind) as back scap loads and pinches some toward spine.
This is the point in the swing where swing radius is set determingin handpath radius and how inside out swing plane will be. Front leg ABducts/legs spread.Hip still coked,hand still coked.
All this preparation is universally necessary for a high level segmented swing (kinetic link powered) so the rubber band can be next wound (bincrease creation of xfactor then xfactor stretch) by well timed and synchronized external rotation of back arm and lead leg as you wind the rubber band going into toe touvh with the weight slightly forward and the front foot opening".
This will then be folowed by drop and tilt where tepo/synch/conversion of weight shift becomes essential.
These universal sequences and requirements can overlap in a way that back elbow and hand position are NOT absolute, but there ARE limits as recognized by Blue dog
I think it is best to think of these as functional rather than spatial limits. The location of elbows/hands/arms/bat can vary as long as the sequence and tempo are not lost/prevented.
"The reason the hands should not be above the armpit is because they need to go back and in, not just back.....Bonds is a great example to study on this.....He actually brings his hands in, then back."
It is important to understand more,in my opinion, about the HOW and WHY of "getting the hands in"
I find it is most useful thinking of this "analytically" (cause and effect) :
The perfect swing is about the adjustment you make (Epstein).
The more outside the pitch, the longer the handpath radius (radius of "CHP"/load/resistance to rotation- Mankin).
The more outside the pitch,the more the hands need to load IN (learning from plane control in golf).
The more inside out the plane (more the hands are in),the more the weight must shift forward (golf).
The more outside the location in hitting,the more weight shifts forward (TO front leg- Lau,more front leg flex - Mankin).
When you "wind the rubberband" (which is the right kind of "rotation into toe touch" where the hips are turning open lead by the front leg turning open so front foot is open at toetouch with weight slightly forward - Epstein)the lead leg is synched/slaved to the "up and over" of the hands (synched/simutaneous EXternal rotation of back arm and lead leg, arm "permitting" leg to go first (arm action is King) to increase rate of body coil during "rubberbband winding" to get right dynamic coil/stretch (rate of stretch needs to steadily increase until end of "cusp" - xfactor stretch/skilltechnologies).
To prepare for a well timed and synched "up and over"/load/coil,what is more essential than absolute position of hands is a UNIVERSAL "arm action sequence" (Hodge- which applies to overhand throw as well).
Back forearm is pronated before/during inward turn (and kept that way,back palm facing pitcher,bat tilted forward some),back arm (and front leg) is internally rotated as hips cok (and kept that way,back arm is aBducted (back elbow comes up) and extended (back elbow points more behind) as back scap loads and pinches some toward spine.
This is the point in the swing where swing radius is set determingin handpath radius and how inside out swing plane will be. Front leg ABducts/legs spread.Hip still coked,hand still coked.
All this preparation is universally necessary for a high level segmented swing (kinetic link powered) so the rubber band can be next wound (bincrease creation of xfactor then xfactor stretch) by well timed and synchronized external rotation of back arm and lead leg as you wind the rubber band going into toe touvh with the weight slightly forward and the front foot opening".
This will then be folowed by drop and tilt where tepo/synch/conversion of weight shift becomes essential.
These universal sequences and requirements can overlap in a way that back elbow and hand position are NOT absolute, but there ARE limits as recognized by Blue dog
I think it is best to think of these as functional rather than spatial limits. The location of elbows/hands/arms/bat can vary as long as the sequence and tempo are not lost/prevented.
In most cases old technique is not different from todays technique--only the words and terms used are different--it is still all the same--baseball is baseball
SullTiger/TRhit
on the hands from page 3, I was saying that if your launch position (of hands) was high (above shoulders or whereever) than that is typically going to cause many more problems...(because swing path would be on a downward plane - to a ball that is traveling down) the universal launch position - key word LAUNCH - is basically at armpit... i think when you are talking about MLB players having high hands... you are looking at some players pre-swing movements/positions.... because the swing happens so quickly, i do not think alot of people actually noticea lot of what actually goes on in a swing... i.e. elbow working up, back elbow tucked, body lean, shoulder tilt, etc...
even the Keeper-of-the-Gold (Julio Franco) got his hands in the universal launch position, and his hands ( in pre-swing) were very high...
And whoever (can't remember who) said to see the ball at contact - umm, basically impossible.. unless you have been trained to actually do that... which won't help anyways... at the US Olympic SOftball team just found out - because you can't make an adjustment to ball once it is within about 15ft of homeplate anyways...
on the hands from page 3, I was saying that if your launch position (of hands) was high (above shoulders or whereever) than that is typically going to cause many more problems...(because swing path would be on a downward plane - to a ball that is traveling down) the universal launch position - key word LAUNCH - is basically at armpit... i think when you are talking about MLB players having high hands... you are looking at some players pre-swing movements/positions.... because the swing happens so quickly, i do not think alot of people actually noticea lot of what actually goes on in a swing... i.e. elbow working up, back elbow tucked, body lean, shoulder tilt, etc...
even the Keeper-of-the-Gold (Julio Franco) got his hands in the universal launch position, and his hands ( in pre-swing) were very high...
And whoever (can't remember who) said to see the ball at contact - umm, basically impossible.. unless you have been trained to actually do that... which won't help anyways... at the US Olympic SOftball team just found out - because you can't make an adjustment to ball once it is within about 15ft of homeplate anyways...
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Tiger, all MLB hitters swing with hands at the armpit, not shoulders......It's simply high level swing technique....
Why do you struggle understanding this??...
This stuff is basic, very basic.....
Albert Pujols
When you are saying that all ML hitters swing with their hands at their armpits and not at their shoulders, you should clarify.
Pujols' hands are above his shoulders when his swing starts.If you are talking about where the hands are at impact or various other places in the swing, then you should be specific. When his bat starts moving forward, his hands are above his shoulders and not at the armpits, and this clip proves it.
I agree with TR that at least since Jackson,Ruth,etc things have been very much the same.
Describing it in words remains a challenge.
The approach of developing a lingo based on slowmo video with support of other tools like motionanalysis and pressure plate measurements where needed to understand how things relate in more detail is probably as good as it will get for a while.
There has probably been some tuning of emphasis on quickness with a light/short/choke up being the preferred club now with more batcoking/ "centering" as opposed to how the old heavy war clubs were handled.
Here is another important golf learning regarding "plane" of swing/"path" of ball.
In addition to length of "contact zone" where timing error will be more or less likely to produce a fair ball, the golf concept of "compression" is an important one. A more efficient club/ball collision imparts more energy to the ball.
The bat head imparts MORE energy to the ball during the collision IF the direction of the bat is lined up with the path of the ball (dependency on velocity which has a direction/vector component) so that idaelly the bat cuts across the path of the ball less at contact.
This is a BIG advantage for the "early batspeed" swing optimized for "quickness" as this permits waiting on the ball while adjusting plane/trajectory of swing where the bat can line up/compress the ball well for a large proportion of the strike zone.
This early batspeed/setting contact point back (shorter swing path without sacrificing batspeed due to efficient acCeleration of bathead) also permits keeping the ball fair while standing as far back in the batter's box as possible which gives more time if needed (and situation/pitcher) allows.
Describing it in words remains a challenge.
The approach of developing a lingo based on slowmo video with support of other tools like motionanalysis and pressure plate measurements where needed to understand how things relate in more detail is probably as good as it will get for a while.
There has probably been some tuning of emphasis on quickness with a light/short/choke up being the preferred club now with more batcoking/ "centering" as opposed to how the old heavy war clubs were handled.
Here is another important golf learning regarding "plane" of swing/"path" of ball.
In addition to length of "contact zone" where timing error will be more or less likely to produce a fair ball, the golf concept of "compression" is an important one. A more efficient club/ball collision imparts more energy to the ball.
The bat head imparts MORE energy to the ball during the collision IF the direction of the bat is lined up with the path of the ball (dependency on velocity which has a direction/vector component) so that idaelly the bat cuts across the path of the ball less at contact.
This is a BIG advantage for the "early batspeed" swing optimized for "quickness" as this permits waiting on the ball while adjusting plane/trajectory of swing where the bat can line up/compress the ball well for a large proportion of the strike zone.
This early batspeed/setting contact point back (shorter swing path without sacrificing batspeed due to efficient acCeleration of bathead) also permits keeping the ball fair while standing as far back in the batter's box as possible which gives more time if needed (and situation/pitcher) allows.
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
CatchingCoach, are you another one of those High School coaches who sit back and teach old technique?
I instruct hitters on ways to be successful at the plate plain and simple. I wouldn't say I sit back and do anything. I instruct 4-5 hours per day, travel all over the country to clinics, etc., and am very active with baseball in my community, which does include coaching at a very successful HS program. I also had a very solid playing career. BUT, I never preach that my way is the only road to success like your ego driven self.
Enough about me, tell me about yourself. I do believe you were the one asked a question. Weren't you ever taught never to answer a question with a question.
bbscount - that pitch is also pretty high in the zone, so I believe Pujols was making an early adjustment.
jmo...
jmo...
Where he starts his swing does not have anything to do with an early adjustment. He starts them (Hands) the same way all the time. An adjustment to a pitch comes later in the swing of a high or low pitch.
What I see in the Pujols clip is he adjusts his posture to pitch location during rotation...
