Some vagueness to it, in terms of what specific steps his journey took, and he's unappreciative of the opportunity he was given. His comments about college ball might be worth a look. His travelogue comments are unfortunately narrow-minded.
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smokeminside,
I am only part way through the interview and stopped.
Personally, I think this interview reflects very poorly on this player.
Our son played in Auburn, NY. Saying it is a "dump" of a town is awful, in my view.
Players are guests in these towns. The people in Auburn could not have been nicer to our son and to us. We met the historian of the NY/Penn league there and learned so much from him about the history of the league, the players who have been in the league, not to mention an introduction to the amazingly beautiful Finger Lakes area of NY and directions to Cooperstown. Each trip back during that Summer, Charlie could not have been more kind and helpful. The facility itself is pretty darn nice.
I could go on, but I will just say the comments are very different than most I believe exist in Milb. Our son was thrilled to have a chance and literally felt he had to prove something every day in Milb. If a player comes out of college with an attitude of the type reflected in the interview, they better be a top draft pick. If the are not a top pick but expect to make it in Milb, I wonder if they truly respect the game and how hard it is to play at the next level.
Here is a link to an uplifting story on Charlie Wride, who was so nice to our son and our family:
http://www.milb.com/news/artic...ws_milb&sid=milb
I agree with you. I probably should have been more careful about posting the link...I thought his comments about the towns where he played in the minors were harsh, too. I guess I ignored that stuff and was responding to his experience at the two different schools he played at, since my focus is on where my sons are heading after high school and what that experience might be like.
I did have this nagging thought as I was reading: man, you played pro ball. Think about how lucky you are, not about the fact that the lockers are metal in the minors.
Point taken, and I certainly didn't mean to endorse his negative opinions.
smoke, not an issue in any way with me.
I truly appreciate the fact you are really trying to understand how the process works and what would be a great result and "fit" at the next level.
The only way that happens is to post and take some risks an "old timer" like me will pipe in with something you didn't expect.
Keep posting and reading and working to find potential "fits" for your son.
To give you an illustration, our son was told by a very good Ivy coach he was their #2 guy at his position. The #1 guy decided on that school and the coach moved on and our son went to a D3 coached by a peer of the Ivy coach (they are very good friends.)
The Ivy coach (no longer there and now at an ACC program) fully agreed he "should" have made a different choice, in hindsight.
Our son loved his D3 choice and University and playing opportunities.
It is all about fit and being lucky that the "choice" by the college coach and the "choice" of your son build together for a great result. Keep pursuing information.
You are doing a really nice job!!!!
They interviewed the wrong guy for this article or alternatively, the article should have been entitled "How awful it is when a player born with a silver spoon doesn't go straight to the big leagues so he can be spoiled like he was in college." This guy is an ingrate and will have trouble succeeding at anything he does in life unless of course someone offers him a fortune 500 CEO position as his first job and then he just might appreciate it. I am going to read between the lines here and guess that since this player was at both Penn and USC his parents have money. He'll be living off them for the rest of his life with that attitude.
I remember watching this guy play at Penn. Very talented player on a bad team at the time. He definitely stood out. I wondered what happened to him....and now I know. His name and my son's name are linked on the same 2012 all-conference team list. Apparently there is no filter between his brain and mouth. Incredible.
Many realities & truths to Mr. Zebreck's minor league experience, but there is a reason it isn't the MLB (mostly due to talent level and economics). I've heard simiiar comments (long bus rides, hard work, foreign players, low pay, etc..) coming out of the mouths of other players I know in the minors. The difference is that he stated it publically on the record to the media and directed insults at towns that were supporting his minor league team. Unbelievable. The people I know are very appreciative of their minor league opportunity and looked at it as part of a learning experience.
Nice interview. Didn't think he said anything wrong and was being honest. I know my son has played in some dumps of towns and he is this summer.
I laugh at the people who get upset when athletes won't open up and be honest and then get upset when they speak their mind. Basically, tell me how great everything is and how you love it and the greatest time of your life because you get the privilege of sacrificing so much for so little and you know how great it is to do things for free; because I wouldn't and haven't.
Then when they call things out like it is, how dare you, you spoiled brat for telling me what I don't want to hear.
He stated alot of wisdom and truth to what he said. I have met several ball players that say if they had it do over again, they wouldn't have done the minor league thing. Said it was miserable and you are just a piece of meat to the organization and to the communities.
I think he could have left the name of cities out and said the same thing; but he chose to give his opinion. I am not going to fault him. Baseball is not a game, it is a business for all involved. To treat it as anything else is to be either naive or dishonest.
He'll be living off them for the rest of his life with that attitude.
That will show he learned his business practice from baseball. That is what baseball is all about. Living off of others who are striving for more and sucking as much money out of them as possible.
"Baseball is not a game, it is a business for all involved. To treat it as anything else is to be either naive or dishonest."
I tend to think those who have posted so far are not naive and especially are not dishonest when it comes to baseball as a business.
Where I think this interview went awry is the fact that there are some great people in baseball, even though it can be a harsh business. Where I think the interview went awry was in calling a town a "dump" when it is the people in that town who not only supported the team, they provided the opportunity for the player to get his chances in MILB, people such as Charlie Wride.
Just because long bus rides can be a challenging and a hard part of Milb does not mean you blast the bus driver is my point. There are some great people in the game and in the "dumps" this player derides.
My personal view is his attitude coming out of college set him up for failure in Milb.
He still does not get it. Some of the things in the interview are certainly accurate and have been discussed for many months in another thread on the site. Nothing new to Milb being tough, challenging and MLB being a big harsh business.
However, being able to separate the big business and the fact there are some wonderful people in "dumps" turned me off to the interview.
For me, this kid comes off as "entitled." For me, there is a big difference between being "entitled" and being "entitled to his opinion." He shared the latter and came across to me and obviously others as the former.
"Baseball is not a game, it is a business for all involved. To treat it as anything else is to be either naive or dishonest."
I tend to think those who have posted so far are not naive and especially are not dishonest when it comes to baseball as a business.
Where I think this interview went awry is the fact that there are some great people in baseball, even though it can be a harsh business. Where I think the interview went awry was in calling a town a "dump" when it is the people in that town who not only supported the team, they provided the opportunity for the player to get his chances in MILB, people such as Charlie Wride.
Just because long bus rides can be a challenging and a hard part of Milb does not mean you blast the bus driver is my point. There are some great people in the game and in the "dumps" this player derides.
My personal view is his attitude coming out of college set him up for failure in Milb.
He still does not get it. Some of the things in the interview are certainly accurate and have been discussed for many months in another thread on the site. Nothing new to Milb being tough, challenging and MLB being a big harsh business.
However, being able to separate the big business and the fact there are some wonderful people in "dumps" turned me off to the interview.
For me, this kid comes off as "entitled." For me, there is a big difference between being "entitled" and being "entitled to his opinion." He shared the latter and came across to me and obviously others as the former.
I understand what you are saying but disagree about the entitled part. I think him explaining the differences and reality don't make him entitled; I think he explaining how reality slapped him in the face. The more interviews and articles showing these pathetic actions of MLB; the better. As long as people keep playing the "oh it was a great experience and they should be happy they didn't have to sleep in the dumpster" attitude; nothing will change. I am amazed how many people have that attitude when they themselves wouldn't have worked in those conditions; but think ball players should.
Our son played D3 baseball which was no bed of roses for travel, long bus rides and the like. He also played Milb and played in Auburn,NY. We know the drill.
What comes across to me is the interviewee let too many things impact him in the MILB process. This cut and paste says it best though: I came from USC and was treated like a rock star and could not adjust:
"You’re staying in really shitty towns in the middle of nowhere. I was in Hagerstown, Maryland—awful, there’s nothing to do there. Then Auburn, and upstate New York is nice over the summer but there’s no one there and Auburn is just a dump of a town.So, you’re playing in front of nobody and you’re expected to just set up and find your own housing, whereas in college you have everything given to you. You’re playing at gorgeous stadiums with state-of-the-art locker rooms. Our clubhouse at SC is like a big league-caliber clubhouse. In the minors you’re playing at these old stadiums that have these small locker rooms with metal lockers. It’s terrible. It’s just not fun."
I fully agree the issues of MILB need to be discussed and hopefully changed for the better. My personal view is this interview and comments like these are not facilitating that discussion in any effective way. Locker rooms don't impact how fun, or not, competing at the highest level of baseball can be...unless the mindset lets it.\
The mindset of "you have everything given to you" sounds "entitled" to me.
I think he could have left the name of cities out and said the same thing; but he chose to give his opinion. I am not going to fault him.
OA5II,
I agree with everything you said except that I do fault him for naming cities that support his livelihood and way of life....this is a business and you just don't do that to paying customers & sponsors. Possibly he just learned that lesson. He could have made the same point without specifics. He should have kept that opinion to himself or off the record. As always JMO.
I really enjoyed the article. Thanks for posting.
I share the opinion that the player seems like he had a silver spoon in his mouth, and that he seemed like an ingrate early on. Calling towns that he played in dumps, certainly wasn't the best thing he has ever done. However, it seems like he offers quite a bit of good advice and information. As mentioned previously, many things he says have been brought forward by others, pay, bus rides, etc. I felt that his point of going to school was spot on, and it appeared to me that he was reflecting on his time. He didn't always use the right words, but I don't think any of his observations were wrong.
I do wonder if his silver spoon background made it difficult for him to concentrate on the things that he needed to, playing baseball, getting better, etc., instead of focusing on what he didn't have, good living conditions, good pay, better travel arrangements, nicer facilities, etc. It seems he focused on material things too much.
Based on the player's baseball history, I have to conclude that he was (to use the interviewer's word) unprepared at every level. Went to USC after graduating from a private high school in Studio City. Transferred to Penn after getting 20 ABs his freshman year at USC. Went back to USC for RS senior year after not getting drafted. Didn't get drafted out of USC, but signed a minor league contract. Did he think he would make it to the majors? Did he think the minors would be glamorous? Either way, a little research would have prepared him for the unlikeliness of either of those outcomes.
There are ways to be honest without being rude.
The interviewer is an attractive young woman who graduated from USC this year. The publication is on-line only and was started by a Penn student. Interesting school connections.
Yeah but in other jobs people don't like they are fairly compensated, at least. 16 hour bus rides. And MLB's stated policy is that these guys are only "on duty" and thus only deserved to be payed only for actual game time.
MLB is rolling in dough. And the set of exemptions they have apparently been granted (assuming they win the current suits) allows them to run the minor leagues as little better than the sweat shops, when it comes to labor standards. It's utterly appalling.
Personally, I'm glad players are speaking up and standing up for themselves -- at least the American ones - at least the ones with college backgrounds, and who have been raised and educated with enough self-confidence and sense of self-worth to not care what people who think they should shut up, do their jobs, not complain and be grateful for whatever they get from "the man" think.
. Locker rooms don't impact how fun, or not, competing at the highest level of baseball can be...unless the mindset lets it.\
The mindset of "you have everything given to you" sounds "entitled" to me.
He was comparing the level of investment that colleges (which are non-profit organizations by the way) put into their facilities with the level of investment that professional baseball puts into its facilities at the minor league level. It is an eye opening point to see that the major leagues and minor leagues operate in quasi-sweat shop style fashion, especially at the lower levels. Glad he spoke out. Glad he isn't the type to just grin and bear it. Glad he pointed out that a good percentage of the players are poor kids from Latin America that the owners and teams simply exploit, because they have them by the balls. That only increases the quasi-sweat shop character of labor relations in this world.
. Locker rooms don't impact how fun, or not, competing at the highest level of baseball can be...unless the mindset lets it.\
The mindset of "you have everything given to you" sounds "entitled" to me.
He was comparing the level of investment that colleges (which are non-profit organizations by the way) put into their facilities with the level of investment that professional baseball puts into its facilities at the minor league level. It is an eye opening point to see what a sweat shop style environment the major leagues and minor leagues run. Glad he spoke out. Glad he isn't the type to just grin and bear it. Glad he pointed out that a good percentage of the players are poor kids from Latin America that the owners and teams simply exploit, because they have them by the balls.
And if you let each and all of those affect you on the baseball field, as he clearly did, you end up with a very predictable result These are all items discussed on this site for over 10 years. Nothing new here other than a player who let things he could not control, including what sounds like an almost obsession about being "released" and the level of competition (what did he expect) impact him nearly everyday.
So, tell me SluggerDad, if your son gets drafted after his 3rd year at CLU are you going to tell him about all the unfairness this guy talks about so he does not sign?
"Sweat shop?" Pretty sure I would not agree with that, including playing in Auburn NY. Falcon Park in Auburn is a regular location of a D3 Regional. Sweat shop?
There are college locker rooms which are similar to those this guy described.
I certainly respect that others are thinking this is an article of importance for themselves and their sons. I do to think it is important, except for me it communicates too many things a Milb player should not be doing or thinking about if they want to succeed to their maximum ability.
So, tell me SluggerDad, if your son gets drafted after his 3rd year at CLU are you going to tell him about all the unfairness this guy talks about so he does not sign?
My son is a hard-nosed realist about the world. No stars in his eyes, No illusions. But also no blinders. One of the things I most admire about him. He's perfectly capable of recognizing unfairness when he sees it, but not letting that fact get in his way. But I'd rather not make this about him personally, please.
That's meant as an analogy. The sweat shop owner has lots of precarious desperate laborers, with little or no bargaining power, at his disposal. He can replace them at will in an instant with somebody who will to work for the same or even lesser pay, He feels no need to invest anything other than minimally necessary amounts in his facilities or in the health and well-being of his workers. And he expects his workers to simply tow the line and be happy about it - since the alternative is intolerable.
Of course, professional baseball isn't really a sweat shop, since these guys -- at least the American college educated ones -- have alternatives. Most will go on to lead productive lives after the baseball thing fails to work out. (Plus there are the true prospects who are seen by mlb as essential to its future. In those guys, they have to make serious investments. But those are just the tip of the iceberg obviously. There's no analog to these folks in the sweat shop, obviously)
But still, I don't think the analogy is entirely inapt. It's not a perfect analogy, of course, But the level of labor exploitation in MLB is appalling to me -- as a guy who grew up in a labor household and is still a union guy at heart, despite doing highly compensated nerdy intellectual stuff for a living as a grown up.
Exactly my point. There are many players who transition from college to Milb. Our son played with guys from UT, UCLA, Vanderbilt, Texas A&M, Oregon State and Stanford.
From the time we spent with them and everything our son said about the time he spent with them, I would expect most would find this comment bordering on foolish:
"So, you’re playing in front of nobody and you’re expected to just set up and find your own housing, whereas in college you have everything given to you."
Just my view but what truly is critical for players and their parents to know revolves around the medical issues when a player is injured. Some/many of those injuries can be career threatening. Some of that is because of the seriousness of the injury. Some is because the injury causes them to be on a DL for 6-8 weeks and they fall that far or farther behind. Some is because the care provided impacts the condition in a negative way, for baseball. This is the #1 priority in my view.
Personally, I could care less about a locker room.
Yeah but in other jobs people don't like they are fairly compensated, at least. 16 hour bus rides. And MLB's stated policy is that these guys are only "on duty" and thus only deserved to be payed only for actual game time.
MLB is rolling in dough. And the set of exemptions they have apparently been granted (assuming they win the current suits) allows them to run the minor leagues as little better than the sweat shops, when it comes to labor standards. It's utterly appalling.
Personally, I'm glad players are speaking up and standing up for themselves -- at least the American ones - at least the ones with college backgrounds, and who have been raised and educated with enough self-confidence and sense of self-worth to not care what people who think they should shut up, do their jobs, not complain and be grateful for whatever they get from "the man" think.
Yeah but in other jobs people don't like they are fairly compensated, at least. 16 hour bus rides. And MLB's stated policy is that these guys are only "on duty" and thus only deserved to be payed only for actual game time.
MLB is rolling in dough. And the set of exemptions they have apparently been granted (assuming they win the current suits) allows them to run the minor leagues as little better than the sweat shops, when it comes to labor standards. It's utterly appalling.
Personally, I'm glad players are speaking up and standing up for themselves -- at least the American ones - at least the ones with college backgrounds, and who have been raised and educated with enough self-confidence and sense of self-worth to not care what people who think they should shut up, do their jobs, not complain and be grateful for whatever they get from "the man" think.
By fairly compensated, I don't mean "well" compensated. My point is that minor league baseball involves a greatly distorted market -- one that seriously tilts the balance between labor and management/ownership in favor of the latter -- in that players have no labor mobility and owners have cartel rights to set wages and work standards. Minor league players don't even enjoy ordinary protections of labor law -- that's one thing their current suit is about.
I read the article and could only marvel at how unprepared he was for MiLB. And I was surprised that he could be that unprepared - surely he had many friends/teammates who have been there.
I think it's a maturity issue.
I read the article and could only marvel at how unprepared he was for MiLB. And I was surprised that he could be that unprepared - surely he had many friends/teammates who have been there.
I think it's a maturity issue.
And I wonder what exactly is supposed to have "prepared" him for life as a non-drafted player in the minor leagues, where his role was essentially to be little more than canon fodder? I mean the NCAA may be a joke, but I don't think you want it to treat students the way MiLB treats it's non-prospect players, would you? Being a low level player in the minors is obviously a whole lot different from being a student athlete at USC or UPenn. So I'm not sure what you expect from a kid who goes from that situation into the minors. "Piece a cake! This is just like ..."
As he puts it pretty well about what he was and wasn't "prepared" for:
I wouldn’t call it unprepared, exactly. I think I was mentally prepared for the grind. But no one can really get used to those 16-hour bus rides after a long game. You get on the bus at two in the morning and then you wake up at the next city in 3 in the afternoon, and you’ve got to play. That never gets easy. It’s just a lot of baseball. In college, for summer ball, you play like this for three months. But this is every day for sixth months.
And pro ball takes a toll on the body. It’s more of a mental grind, more of the ups and downs—which I think five years of college better prepared me for. It’s a learning process. It takes an average guy, a position player out of college, four years to get to the big leagues, to learn to develop. No other sport is like that. You’ve got to be a special talent to spend less than a year in the minor leagues. So that part, I’d guess, is the hardest part: the mental grind of minor league baseball. And the adaptation problem of being given everything and then getting nothing.
It can also be a huge culture shock for people because you’re playing with a lot of Latin American guys. A lot of them don’t speak English, and you don’t do that in college. People sometimes don’t get that, but it’s like over 50%, sometimes 60%, of the guys you’re playing with are Latino. And I loved it. They were fun guys, they were awesome, but it’s a big change.
"And the adaptation problem of being given everything and then getting nothing."
SluggerDad, I think you brought in the quote which captures his perspective and, in my opinion, one of the reasons he was released so quickly.
If the motivation to play is because of being given "everything," then getting drafted or signing as a FA as this player did is not a very good option. Stated differently, if the quality of the play and the quality of the player (mental mindset and focus) is impacted by whether they are "given everything" or given "nothing," they are going to have a very hard time in Milb or in most any aspect of business in our Country.
Geez, our son was a D3 guy and his college coach had him very well prepared for Milb. Additionally, our son was placed in the NECBL for 2 different Summers where they also make a major point of running the league and teams, and telling the players, it is like Milb, and it is. Between a college season and the NECBL and playoffs our son played from January to August and was in about 100 games. Not 144 like full season Milb but even a D3 guy knew what was coming from Milb, other than how truly grinding and exhausting it was beginning around game 100 when temps in the Midwest were hovering around 100 degrees everyday and humidity not far from that.
The more which gets extracted from the interview and posted, the less impressed i am with the interview.
One problem here is the boy in the article generalized based on his limited anecdotal experience about the entire minor league experience. I think he was wrong on a number of counts. There are hardly any 16 hour bus rides in the minors if any that I am aware of. Most cities are two to four hours or less from each other in a given league. I am aware of 8 or 9 hour rides but often times, two cities are in between with only the final games at the remotest location being the ultimate 8 or 9 hour ride back home.
Lets talk about facilities. The New York Penn League is one of the oldest minor league affiliations and there are a few older parks in that league. For the most part, I am guessing that 80 or 90 percent of all minor league parks are new. I believe that all the minor league parks in Ohio are new, for example. All the leagues my son has played in most of parks are new. All these parks have first class accommodations exceeding those in college. There are parks like in Durham that are nicer than many major league parks.
Here's a sampling of some of the places my son has played:
Hudson Valley - NY Penn League Short Season A - this was in an affluent area of the country. First class new ballpark with 5,000 fans at every game we attended. This area of the country could hardly be called dumpy.
Bowling Green - Midwest League Low A - first class new ball park. Great fans. Outstanding and beautiful area of Kentucky. Not a dumpy home or business in sight. Most of the stadiums in this league were similar conditions.
Port Charlotte Florida High A - first class new ball park. Outstanding area of the country and a tourist location so dumpy could not possibly be used to describe it. All the ball parks in this league are first class with some even exceeding the charm of many major league parks.
Montgomery Alabama AA - nice new ball park. Nice location and good fans. A little hot in the summer time so our California boy may have complained about that one.
Reno Nevada - AAA - beautiful area of the country not far from Lake Tahoe. Nice new ball park. Anyone who would call this city dumpy has no idea what they are talking about. Pretty much all travel in this league (PCL) is by airplane rather than bus. Players are pretty much treated like big leaguers at this level. Several make over 100K per year at this level.
Jackson Tenn - AA - another nice area of the country and lovely spacious new ball park. Quite hot down there but the town and ball park are very nice.
Independent Atlantic League - almost all new ball parks in this league with first class accommodations. Fans were very supportive of their teams even though they were not affiliated with major league baseball. One team was in Texas so some air travel was involved.
Many of the ball parks in all the leagues mentioned above I have at least seen on video. I am telling you they are modern day palaces and far, far, far, from sweat shops.
The work experience. How many of us get to go out in nice comfortable athletic clothing on nice warm summer days and work out leisurely for a few hours each day in the nice warm summer breeze before we begin our workday? How many of us have 2000 to 5000 enthusiastic fans cheering for us every day while we are at work? How many of us have 10 to 20 people every night waiting for us to sign our autographs for them? How many of us get paid to play a GAME?
Guys in the minors do not make a ton of money but they supplement their incomes in other ways. One year my son was paid 2,000 to sign 4000 baseball cards. He makes several hundred at each camp he assists with and he usually does several of those a year. He makes money playing winter ball each year in cool places like Cartagena Columbia and Sydney Australia. How many of you out there have ever visited Australia? He's the type of guy who loves the game with all his heart and does not view his job as work. He is rich in spirit because he loves what he is doing. I ask everyone out there, excluding financial riches, how many of you are truly rich?
Read one of hundreds of articles, books, blogs, etc. that describe in detail exactly what he was so surprised to discover? His quote, "Nobody really understands it." Huh? Even I understand it, and I've never seen the inside of a minor league club house.
He didn't state it explicitly, but it sure sounds like he wouldn't do it again if he had the chance to do it over. The information that he needed was readily available to him before signing. (I'm pretty sure that the libraries at USC and Penn have internet access.) A minor league lifestyle is austere, and an undrafted free agent has a miniscule chance of making it to the majors. I'm suggesting that had he done some research about what he was signing up for, he wouldn't have even signed, or at the least not been so surprised and distracted by what he found.
Read one of hundreds of articles, books, blogs, etc. that describe in detail exactly what he was so surprised to discover? His quote, "Nobody really understands it." Huh? Even I understand it, and I've never seen the inside of a minor league club house.
He didn't state it explicitly, but it sure sounds like he wouldn't do it again if he had the chance to do it over. The information that he needed was readily available to him before signing. (I'm pretty sure that the libraries at USC and Penn have internet access.) A minor league lifestyle is austere, and an undrafted free agent has a miniscule chance of making it to the majors. I'm suggesting that had he done some research about what he was signing up for, he wouldn't have even signed, or at the least not been so surprised and distracted by what he found.
That's like saying that reading books about the horrors of war "prepares" you for the horrors of war. Or reading the stories of people who somehow get sudden wealth prepares you for sudden wealth. There are something things that you have to experience up close and personal to really appreciate and be viscerally "prepared" for -- not in the cold, intellectual sense, of merely knowing the facts -- but in the sense of having the psychological resources to cope with it on a day to day basis. I think he probably knew the facts. But knowing the facts isn't at all the same as being psychologically prepared to deal with the facts day in and day out.
ClevelandDad - still trying to get up to speed on which posters' sons played, but it looks like yours played at quite a few locales. Was wondering if there were any horror stories when it came to accomodations and general lifestyle stuff that may have been casued by letting a group of poorly paid youngsters, showing up in a new town that might be relatively small, make snap decisions on where they are going to live and who they are going to room with. I keep hearing horror stories about 4-5 guys having to live together and then the wife/kids of on of the guys shows up - mattresses all over the floor and a general mess. Is that story generally inflated or do some locales force these guys into some interesting living arrangements?
Have heard some teams do provide assistance in housing while others do not. Is that generally based on the MLB affiliation or is it really dependent upon the actual team assigned? I guess folks have been finding housing for more years that I have been alive but it would seem to make sense that a team would not want a player having to spend too much effort upon his arrival given that the team itself has probably been in that town for 20+ years and has a good amount of local knowledge.
ClevelandDad - still trying to get up to speed on which posters' sons played, but it looks like yours played at quite a few locales. Was wondering if there were any horror stories when it came to accomodations and general lifestyle stuff that may have been casued by letting a group of poorly paid youngsters, showing up in a new town that might be relatively small, make snap decisions on where they are going to live and who they are going to room with. I keep hearing horror stories about 4-5 guys having to live together and then the wife/kids of on of the guys shows up - mattresses all over the floor and a general mess. Is that story generally inflated or do some locales force these guys into some interesting living arrangements?
Have heard some teams do provide assistance in housing while others do not. Is that generally based on the MLB affiliation or is it really dependent upon the actual team assigned? I guess folks have been finding housing for more years that I have been alive but it would seem to make sense that a team would not want a player having to spend too much effort upon his arrival given that the team itself has probably been in that town for 20+ years and has a good amount of local knowledge.
Those are good and fair questions. Sometimes housing can be messy but it is usually for the short term rather than the long term. Some players, especially in the low minors stay with host families who often do not charge. These people have hearts of gold. To hear their towns called dumps is appalling to me. When arriving in a new town, the team will usually accommodate a player for three or four days at the local hotel. Most players usually can find a room with another group of players in that time. My son is currently sharing a condo with two other players and they have a nice outdoor pool. I am told their furnishings are sparse but they do not spend a lot of time at home. I believe he pays 350 a month. When he was rehabbing and during spring training at Arizona, he stayed at a Doctor's house who he's become good friends with. At Hudson Valley he had a host family. At all the other locals, he's shared space with teammates. Just like in college, some teammates are clean and pleasant to live with and some of them are slobs. That's life and you just have to learn to deal with it. He's never complained to me about his living arrangements however. The only time I've hear him even the least bit wistful is when our family travels to watch him play. He misses being away from the family and is lonely sometimes but he is hardly depressed about that. He has a girlfriend in Arizona and he obviously misses her. When he signed with Seattle recently, he had to fly out to Arizona for his physical so he got to spend a few days with her as a bonus.
It is a bit of a vagabond lifestyle but he has no expenses other than his monthly rent and gas for his car for the most part. He has learned to live comfortably on what he makes. Basically no complaints.
From the article....."I was in Hagerstown, Maryland—awful, there’s nothing to do there. Then Auburn, and upstate New York is nice over the summer but there’s no one there and Auburn is just a dump of a town."
After thinking about this some more (I had some windshield time today) it occurred to me that the Penn field is adjacent to a water treatment plant (a few hundred feet). When the wind is blowing it catches a mist in the air and can smell quite bad on occassion. Not to mention the interstate highway and train tracks that are beyond the outfield which give it "unique" surroundings. As Mama always used to say, when you live in a glass house (substitute play baseball next to a water treatment plant) you shouldn't be throwing stones.
My neighbor played in minors and said he would advise people to avoid it. 2 different organizations had him brought into a town and he was expected to find his own housing. They offered him to stay in hotel but he had to pay up front and they would reimburse him. One did, the other didn't. Like he said, who can you complain to?
He said without his family financial help in the off-season he wouldn't have survived because the teams have a philosophy of churn and burn. He will admit he was naive and thought because he was in their system; they were there to develop but b/c he was drafted in the 35thish round; that was not the case.
I know he has talked to some local talent and told them that unless top 10 round; you really need to see what kind of financial position your family is in before you make a commitment to the minors.
The MLB is a cartel that doesn't have rules to follow for the most part and can do as they please.
I meant this young man, Greg, and his family when he and my son were teammates at USC. I feel he and his family are fine people and I see harsh judgments here based only what has been said (though I find such judgments typically expressed in forums such as these about just about anyone). Anyway, I think what was said was pretty raw and coming from a very young and naive young man (like a great majority are at this age). I've actually heard much the same comments coming from other players I've listened to as a "fly on the wall" when my son had teammates visiting at our home (we happen to live near a spring training facility and some players hang out or even stay over night when waiting to get their hotel assignment). So, I can tell you that it's not unusual for players to feel and talk that way, particularly among themselves. As to actually naming cities publicly like this that he didn't particularly like I think is simply a maturity issue. I'm sure he'll live and learn. I don't like that he did that. But I'm not going to, in effect, demonize him or his family for his honest feelings about his experiences.
In the minor leagues there are nice places to be and others that are not, mostly based on what and how one expects to live. It can be hard on a young player being located in a town that has NOTHING to do in available time off except go to movies, hang out at bars or watch TV. And for such towns, that's probably a reason why they have a minor league team there. I've been in some of those towns that were really boring except for the minor league games I visited to watch my son play. Oh, in some cases there's a larger city a couple of hours away that they might go to for some fun. . . if they've got the time and the money.
If a player doesn't have sufficient financial resources, it's especially tough on an Milb player. . . as it is for anyone else living at a poverty level.
"The MLB is a cartel that doesn't have rules to follow for the most part and can do as they please."
I don't have any major disagreement with your conclusion, when it is applied to MILB player compensation and being bound for 6 championship seasons.
On the other hand, I would suggest that the baseball experiences can vary widely. Some of that can be organizational. Some can relate to draft status. Some can relate to the player.
I just read about a player who signed last month and then retired on his 2nd day with the team. One of the guys drafted in the 3rd round when our son was drafted got a very nice bonus, made sure everyone on his team knew about it, and quit before the second season started.
Our son was picked in the middle of the draft and whether he was given or earned it, he worked his way into a starting position during the first full season, made that league's All-Star game, and had over 500 AB's in his first full season.
On the other hand, another D3 player was drafted by a different team 2 rounds ahead of our son and was released before the first full season with less than 50 AB's, total.
During the time at the field, Milb can be a great experience if a player truly loves the game and is very skilled and talented.
The business and off field side is more than challenging, for sure. In some ways, it can help a player grow up and be responsible. On the other, when one looks at the revenues of MLB and how they are growing, including the value of MILB teams, it is no wonder sabres are being rattled about the compensation issues and court rooms are being filled with lawyers because MLB won't budge.
I meant this young man, Greg, and his family when he and my son were teammates at USC. I feel he and his family are fine people and I see harsh judgments here based only what has been said (though I find such judgments typically expressed in forums such as these about just about anyone). Anyway, I think what was said was pretty raw and coming from a very young and naive young man (like a great majority are at this age). I've actually heard much the same comments coming from other players I've listened to as a "fly on the wall" when my son had teammates visiting at our home (we happen to live near a spring training facility and some players hang out or even stay over night when waiting to get their hotel assignment). So, I can tell you that it's not unusual for players to feel and talk that way, particularly among themselves. As to actually naming cities publicly like this that he didn't particularly like I think is simply a maturity issue. I'm sure he'll live and learn. I don't like that he did that. But I'm not going to, in effect, demonize him or his family for his honest feelings about his experiences.
In the minor leagues there are nice places to be and others that are not, mostly based on what and how one expects to live. It can be hard on a young player being located in a town that has NOTHING to do in available time off except go to movies, hang out at bars or watch TV. And for such towns, that's probably a reason why they have a minor league team there. I've been in some of those towns that were really boring except for the minor league games I visited to watch my son play. Oh, in some cases there's a larger city a couple of hours away that they might go to for some fun. . . if they've got the time and the money.
If a player doesn't have sufficient financial resources, it's especially tough on an Milb player. . . as it is for anyone else living at a poverty level.
Saying that this guy needs to mature is fair, but giving him a pass is probably not. Those in the thread that have said he seems like he grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth, are probably spot on. At what point would you expect this young man to mature? If he was college age, maybe you give him a free pass, but he has to be mid 20's at least. Right? I think that is old enough to not rag on specific towns that provided you with an opportunity. I am sure many folks in that town supported him as fans, and they take pride in their community. Speaking negatively of those towns the way he did, is not right.
I get Truman's point. If the young man were to think about it a little, he may have worded things differently.
It's possible this kid viewed that interview for what it was, a blog post that nobody will read - for the most part. His comments were unvarnished and from his perspective. His perspective seems to be from wealth and class. Anything less apparently is beneath him. I don't demonize him for making young foolish comments.
The comments I've made regarding my son's experience are from the other perspective however. From someone who would live in squalor to keep his hopes alive because he loves the game that much. It's not about the money with him although he would love the big money that comes with playing in the big leagues. It's about the game itself. Young Mr. Zebrack does not see it that way and he is entitled to his opinion.
I meant this young man, Greg, and his family when he and my son were teammates at USC. I feel he and his family are fine people and I see harsh judgments here based only what has been said (though I find such judgments typically expressed in forums such as these about just about anyone). Anyway, I think what was said was pretty raw and coming from a very young and naive young man (like a great majority are at this age). I've actually heard much the same comments coming from other players I've listened to as a "fly on the wall" when my son had teammates visiting at our home (we happen to live near a spring training facility and some players hang out or even stay over night when waiting to get their hotel assignment). So, I can tell you that it's not unusual for players to feel and talk that way, particularly among themselves. As to actually naming cities publicly like this that he didn't particularly like I think is simply a maturity issue. I'm sure he'll live and learn. I don't like that he did that. But I'm not going to, in effect, demonize him or his family for his honest feelings about his experiences.
In the minor leagues there are nice places to be and others that are not, mostly based on what and how one expects to live. It can be hard on a young player being located in a town that has NOTHING to do in available time off except go to movies, hang out at bars or watch TV. And for such towns, that's probably a reason why they have a minor league team there. I've been in some of those towns that were really boring except for the minor league games I visited to watch my son play. Oh, in some cases there's a larger city a couple of hours away that they might go to for some fun. . . if they've got the time and the money.
If a player doesn't have sufficient financial resources, it's especially tough on an Milb player. . . as it is for anyone else living at a poverty level.
Saying that this guy needs to mature is fair, but giving him a pass is probably not. Those in the thread that have said he seems like he grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth, are probably spot on.
While anything might be possible, this is simply pure speculation . . .unless "those in the thread" really know the family. If the description is accurate, yes. . . there are going to be people who live there are going to be offend, but such should be better express with that in mind.
At what point would you expect this young man to mature?
Well, different people mature a different rates and some people don't "mature" until age 40 and a few see, to never mature. There's no specific cut off point where that's supposed to happen is there?
Great advances are taking place in Neuroscience and I read a study last year that found that the human brain doesn't really "mature" until about age 25. Being associated with the insurance industry and how actuaries work dealing with large numbers, I found it interesting as the insurance industry seems to correlate with that in terms of when driver's insurance rates fall to a "normal level" (age 25 where they suggest that people are more mature in their driving decisions). And on my own anecdotal evidence, A point at which one mature seems to be somewhere between 25 and 30.
If he was college age, maybe you give him a free pass, but he has to be mid 20's at least. Right?
He'll be 25 in August.
And I'm NOT giving him a free pass as I don't feel he should have mentioned names as he did. . . . as I suggested in my post.
I think that is old enough to not rag on specific towns that provided you with an opportunity.
OK, that's your opinion. I'm saying he may not be.
I am sure many folks in that town supported him as fans, and they take pride in their community. Speaking negatively of those towns the way he did, is not right.
To the extent of naming those towns, I agreed.
I've been in towns that I would characterize as "really shitty towns in the middle of nowhere", but I'm not going to name them or tell you publicly which one's I might be referring to. But when I was in my early 20's . . . I might.
