Ex minor leaguer discusses his journey

After the usual internet response of shooting the messenger, vilifying a person who actually lived the life (the ungrateful whelp), what exactly was said that wasnt accurate?. 

 

Lets take take a few hot buttons.

• bus rides. In AA Texas league the distance from Midlands, Tx., to Springdale, Ak is well over 600 miles; in SS NY-Penn Aberdeen, MD., to Burlington, Vt., is well over 450 miles (and the drive passes through the NY city suburbs). In High A California league the drive from Stockton to Lake Elsinore is over 400 miles. In SS Northwest league the drive from Vancouver, BC, to Boise is over 650 miles. In AA Eastern league the drive from Portland, MI to Richmond is over 650 miles. Didn't even bother to look in the Pioneer league - the distances are longer. While the reporter wrote sixteen hours, the specific example given was 13 hours. Very very real times when you consider that the players do need to stop and eat a few times. These post-game bus rides occurring as they do during the night can be hazardous; the bus crash in NC this year occurred at 3:45 am and injured at least seven players.
• the towns. While inartfully stated, some towns are pretty poor - economically, socially, and crime wise. Specifically, Hagerstown is losing its franchise; Jamestown lost theirs, etc.
• the locker rooms at some stadiums do not compare to high end college programs. In Burlington last year, the visiting clubs were using the fence to dry their uniforms - dryers were broken. Twenty five players and three working showers were not unusual.
• host families. Some are great; others not so great. And contrary to the urban myth, host families do take rent money from players (up to $350 per month). I personally know a player who is currently paying rent on his old apartment (rented while he was on one team) while living in a closet, on an air mattress AND paying rent to his host family on his new team. I personally know a host family who crammed six Latin players in a SINGLE bedroom last season - and collected rent from each (to be fair, however, the food was good).
• playing before crowds. While some MILB teams draw, others don't. Beloit (full season A) averages fewer then 500 fans a game; Jamestown drew 400 last season. I once attended an LSU game which drew over 7,000 - against a non conference patsy. Some stadiums are first class, others are sub pa;; some SS teams even televise their games (Aberdeen); others don't have an announcer to even do a decent radio broadcast.

And even though all this information is freely available, who would really believe it? Can someone really understand what it's like to finish a game, shower, change, and find decent food in a small town at 1:00 am, when you don't have a car, there is no public transportation, and no taxi service (as if you could afford it anyway on 1,100/mo)?

 

Its real easy to sit and tell the ingrates to suck it up like real men because you've read about it. 

 

For those who have served in the armed forces: think about basic training for a combat soldier. As you lived it it was awful. A year later not as bad. Ten years later your regaling people with your stories. Forty years later it was all strolls in the dark with fireworks. Amazing what the passage of time does to real events In your mind.

 

During the off-season I hang around approximately 100 current MILB players. I enjoy listening to them talk amongst themselves. All they do is compare war stories - almost to a man they love what they do, but hate and don't understand their living conditions.

 

Zebrack is no different - except he had the temerity to speak about it. He reveals that to get to the spot where he got paid to play, he had to forfeit (he called it sacrifice) summer camps, hanging with friends, spring break, a full college social life, etc. And, because you can't get there without that single-mindedness, when the music ends you feel lost and empty and "you have to start anew. You have to start your life over. And that's the part you can never prepare yourself for." I think he was spot on - life goes on, but it takes a bit of energy to find a new track. This young man really revealed his soul - he misses playing "a lot" but he now realizes, with the advantage of dispassionate 20/20 hindsight, that other players were indeed better.

 

i wish him the best in life - fortunately, he had the safety net that a degree from Penn provides; and he is on the business side of baseball - still connected to the sport which brought him to where he is.

 

Goosegg - you've done a good job of pointing out every exception in minor league baseball.  Burlington's stadium is the worst I have ever visited.  Jamestown is not a poor town as I've been there many times although their stadium is in poor condition.  It will catch up with them.  Someone will build a new ballpark and they'll lose their team(s). 

 

Not one of your travel examples is a 16 hour ride no matter how you stretch it.  Again, you don't travel 10 hours, play a few games and go home.  You play teams along the way.  All that said, so what if the bus rides are long?  If you can't hack that, then don't play.  Zebrack has a poor attitude and there is no defending it other than immaturity.  

 

Your analogy regarding those who served in the armed forces hit a cord with me as that thought also crossed my mind earlier.  In fact, I could draw a lot of similarities from my experience of being DRAFTED into the armed forces and getting little pay (even when considering allotments received for clothing, housing and food).  I really hated it at the time (including the "shitty towns") and now look back fondness of the experience. 

Thank you goosegg.  I can't believe some of the 'adults' here with the 'silver spoon', 'poor attitude', ' ingrate' and other immature comments.

 

BTW, you can go to Penn and be dead broke, not Hillary dead broke, but really broke.

 

The kid spoke from the heart and didn't sugar coat anything.  Good for him.  He's been there, he can say what he wants.

 

Also, the kid did not write the article himself, and reflect on his words.  This was just an interview, and probably never expected to be quoted verbatim.

Things will change only if players who have actually been there and done that and have seen how quickly the golden goose turns into an ugly duckling when you look at it up close start speaking up.  Of course, it's not enough for them to speak up.  They need to be heard and acknowledged and not just blown off as spoiled brats who don't know how good they have it.

 

Part of the problem is that national sports media hardly cares about these non-prospect guys at all cause they don't drive traffic. It's a similar story with big time sports in the NCAA and its sham that its regulations are all about protecting, rather than exploiting, the student-athlete.  Some guys have actually started speaking out about what big time college sports is really like.   The media pays a bit more attention to that because big time college sports do generate traffic --  so their story is gradually getting more widely known.

 

More power to all these guys, I say.  Wouldn't even think of criticizing them or dismissing them.

 

"And even though all this information is freely available, who would really believe it? Can someone really understand what it's like to finish a game, shower, change, and find decent food in a small town at 1:00 am, when you don't have a car, there is no public transportation, and no taxi service (as if you could afford it anyway on 1,100/mo)?

 

Its real easy to sit and tell the ingrates to suck it up like real men because you've read about it."

 

Well Goosegg, since you seem to be directing your "vilification" comments toward posters like CD and myself, let me ask you the question you are asking. What is your personal experience?

CD's son is well known and he fully spelled out where his son has played and why he is calling some BS.

I don't think there is any question about my background. The background  of our son is an open book and the comments don't come from Google.

Tell me, have you sat in the stands with one of your son's injured teammates and tried to work with him through all of his rights and legal options if/when the injuries end up disabling or career threatening?

Have you sat on the phone with some of your son's former Milb teammates trying to work them through the maize of issues related to baseball related injuries when they have played or been in ST in Fla., NY, MI, and every State where there are Milb teams in at least 3 leagues?

Have you sat on  the phone with an agent of a player who is  asserting the team doctor committed malpractice on his player while the agent is also trying to keep it "quiet" in a way which could preserve any claims of malpractice but also keep the workers' comp options open, but also keep the playing opportunity open if there is a better than expected recovery?

Your efforts to vilify the perspectives of others on this interview are well done, but quite unfortunate and  off the mark, in my view. Just because you Googled places and trips where Milb is an experience less than thrilling, you have only made an illusion because they are not what the interviewee experienced, for the most part.

This may be nothing more than a really good kid from a really good family who did not take the interview "seriously," as Thurman suggests. I guess I could accept that. I  have a problem with your approach of making him a martyr.

 

 

 

I know Greg and I disagree with many of the posters here.

Yes he could of left names out and could come across more appreciative for having the opportunity to play.

 

A lot of what he says is true.

 

Auburn has some great fans, they have difficulty there finding host families and the players have a hard time finding places to live. My son lived in a add on room with four other guys with no dry wall and it was pretty dingy. They each paid 200 for a bed on the floor. Some had airbeds.

Hagerstown is a town with not much to do, but the host families there from my sons experience were awesome .(beyond)

 

Maybe he comes off as a spoiled kid, this kid was cut from USC the year my son came in, he should not have been. He went to IVY school and sat out his year and then excelled. He came back To USC for his fifth year and began his masters. He was all academic and an outstanding student.

 

Not everyone loves the minor leagues, and honestly my son was relieved when he was released as well. He played two seasons and when you are 24 in short season your not getting much farther.

 

If you haven't done it you don't know. What Zebrack is trying to say and maybe he is young and not wording it right. Most players going into the minors THINK they may have a chance to make it, non money guys have very limited chances to prove that.

 

He is saying once there he saw that he had spent his life going after a dream and its now over. Maybe he is still raw from all of that.

 

I think his interview is honest and much of it is true regardless of how people perceive it

.

Ill take heat but I don't really care. To call this kid spoiled and say he has a silver spoon in his mouth based on his feelings playing minor league ball is harsh.

 

Honestly playing in the PAC 12 and the fields you play at and the way you are treated and fed is a big difference. He is saying he doesn't know how HS kids do it. He is saying he questioned his talent, I think many players do, and his interview is raw and not professional. He is a kid, his dream is over, he sacrificed a lot.

 

He has an IVY league Degree, and was a standout on and off the field. Should he appreciate the opportunity of playing minor league ball absolutely doesn't mean he had to like it.

 

Just because some of the young men on here live and breathe baseball and will play until they drop. others lose their passion for many reasons. Some that he mentioned.

 

I think he was honest to a fault and I disagree to be judging him on a personal level.

 

My son played with him at USC and in the minors. He is a fine young man.

 

Goosegg is correct about travel in the Texas League. Teams always travel the farthest distance and the play another series and head home.

The distance from Springfield, MO to Corpus Christi, TX is 13h 8m. 830 miles. Because of the long trip once they flew son home for playoffs.

 

That league and the travel is grueling.  So is 110 degrees game time. 

 

He also is correct about the towns. Some are very poor, some very wealthy. Examples would be that son has played in the very depressed (a better word) towns of Erie, PA and Batavia, NY to the pristine planned community of Jupiter, FL to crazy Memphis, TN.

 

He is also is right about playing in front of crowds, or no crowds.  Less than 100 in Roger Dean in summer heat, and a few dozen in freezing Erie in April. Standing room only in Springfield. Mine too has played in

many different ballparks and they are all different based on location to the parent club. The closer you are to the home team, the better the facility, if the parent club owns the team or has a huge monetary stake in the franchise, bingo. Those facts don't necessarily mean for many that its awful, for Greg, maybe it was.  

As far as facilities, new milb ballparks are being built every year. Not sure son ever played where there was a really bad locker room, and yes, there are college locker rooms much nicer than in milb ballparks.

 

Players are fed before and after games, when at home or away. I never heard son complain about the food or he never looked like he was starving when we saw him.

 

I personally don't think the guy was far off.  He was a non drafted free agent, the perception is much different, but facts about milb life remain sthe same. It really isn't for everyone.  There is no glitz and glamour, which is why so many complain. Its not what they expected.  If it were so terrible, there wouldn't be 240 teams.

 

What my son said once, you really have to approach it with a sense of humor as well as an adventure.  

 

What really bothers me are the comments made here or in other topics regarding life in milb with no experience to back it up. 

 

The old expression of, don't knock it until you've (or your son) tried it, applies.

 

JMO

 

 

 

fan,

I believe you and Thurman that he is a good kid.  However, the bigger issues are not whether he is a good kid.  The bigger issues are whether he advanced the cause of Milb players.  My personal view is that by denigrating Americana-Auburn and Hagersville, etc, he does more harm than good.

For many of the people in those towns, Milb is a BIG deal.  To read one of those players calling their home a dump and $hitty is offensive.

I want Milb players to WIN and change the status quo!

Sorry, I think this interview does not help that direction, no matter how terrific this young man might be before the interview started and after it ended.

TPM,

This seems ironic: you are seemingly on point with Goosegg.  However, despite being asked many times by you, Goosegg never disclosed any personal information.

How do you know Goosegg has the personal experience to answer this one yes?

 

"What really bothers me are the comments made here or in other topics regarding life in milb with no experience to back it up."

 

infielddad,

 

I agree with that ,he should not of said that about the towns he stayed at. We were there in Auburn and Hagerstown since my son was moved back and forth six times in the three weeks while we were there having a total of about 12 host families.

 

In Hagerstown we got to meet our sons and many of the host families. They were wonderful people.

 

I just think he was asked the questions and he answered them. My son is reading the interview as we speak. I sent it to him.

 

The minor leagues do have some issues, nobody seems to want to talk about it.They say well they signed up for it suck it up, or what an opportunity it is. Both true but many many players I would bet money feel very similar whether people want to hear it or not.

 

My son played for the same org. He had great coaches, great teammates and

had some great and some not so great days. Yes its part of it.

 

He didn't use a filter, but he said what he felt.

Well I asked goosegg and he declined, but I guess from hanging out with 100 milb guys in the off season, he got some info right! I am not sure he realizes we all know each other.

But its very true about the depressed towns and the tough travel in some leagues. But there are some great places son had been to and that just adds to who he is.  Nashville, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, Albuquerque, cactus league and grapefruit league cities. Lots of really nice places.  Son played for two very rich teams who did take care of business for the players.

I have other issues as you mentioned, injuries in particular and how things are handled, not talked about often, the other stuff is, well just other stuff.

I think some of the comments about this former player have been a bit harsh. You can't fault anyone for how they perceive things. 

I am not sure of what you are saying. In some leagues 10-14 hours is not uncommon in A and AA.  I know that for a fact, so is poor attendance and towns hit with a tough economy. I know in Erie they work very hard at helping the community and making games affordable. That's a big part of milb.  Many towns depend on those teams, some dont.But I believe a lot depends on the organization.

As far as host families, that doesn't apply to high A, AA or AAA. Son only spent part of as with a host family who did charge minimal for rent. 

 

BTW, my nephew lives in Hagerstown, very wealthy, lives in the country and loves it.

 

I still do stand behind don't knock it til you try it.

 

Making it from Milb to MLB in IMO is the most difficult pro journey. As many have mentioned here, one of the things it takes a "single-minded" love of the game. You can't invent or learn this, it just has to be present.  

 

I simple view this article as someone who lacked this trait. And because of this he was not ready to compete. Like many who don't succeed in going from Milb to MLB (for dozens of various reasons), it is just another example of why someone couldn't cut it. It also goes to prove how really difficult it actually is to "make it."

I thought it was an informative article that yes--had plenty of "whine" in it. But it also had a lot of really hard-earned information, and warnings effectively, to share. Yes, the knocks on the minor league host cities were low, but honestly...I suspect over a beer many minoir league players would say the same damn thing.

SluggerDad, I understand where you are coming from. though I do not necessarily agree with everything you said.

 

My thought is this for that particular player and many in his shoes. I think it is based off level of where they are in the player "food chain"

 

this player was given a scholarship at USC, TOP of the food chain of players coming out of HS, Hence high level accommodations etc. In pro ball he was an undrafted 23 year old playing in a lower league, BOTTOM of food chain and hence everything that goes with that potentially.

 

My son plays in a mid lever D1 program- Baseball is very important to this school.. VERY nice facilities. In his league there are 2 very nice facilities and then quality goes down from there of accommodations. When he was in HS and younger and traveling around playing summer ball, he played at lots of college facilities. All the way from JUCO and NAIA to Major D1. Generally they were well kept but the level of grandeur was certainly different as you went up the food chain of levels.

 

I think that is true in most industries

 

Now, on a different topic, Do I think they should invest more salary than $1100 a month for the months they are playing and make sure they are cared for very well medically? Yes, what that entails is way above my food grade.

 

But bad lockers in "shitty" towns just sounds ungrateful

Infield dad.

 

You can take or leave what I say since this an Internet forum. I note that you do not question the information I provided; rather you prefer to try to undermine the source (and, yes, MILB.com is a great source for locating teams geographically). You are free to do that; it's a great internet tradition. But do not assume that you possess the only truths about MILB. There are many truths here.

 

You made assertions along the lines of "all swans are white." To back up that assertion you cherry picked stadiums, and experiences. All I was prove conclusively, definitively, and clearly that there are plenty of black swans, thereby proving that "all swans are not white." I do not assert that every MILB experience mirrors Mr. Zebrecht's or your son's; a player playing for Staten Island has a different experience from one playing in Tri-City - and they're in the same league. Organizations differ, teams differ, cities differ, leagues differ. Because we all agree that Mr. Zebrecht (whom I do not know personally, though I saw him play several times) indeed played, there is no dispute that the information came from his experiences. (As for the bus rides referenced, you seem to assume that these long long rides don't occur; I beg to differ. In fact, on a Twitter account I follow, the players were griping recently about bus breakdowns being a regular fact of their lives. Breakdowns add to the time it takes to get from point A to point B. And the players have a term, which I heard for the first time several years ago for these rides followed by a game: show and go. Meaning, arrive at the park and basically immediately play.)

 

(BTW, you are relating your son's experiences through the filter you apply (as we all do with info given by our kids). Perhaps he has written of his experiences so we can understand other journeys? There are several books and blogs about MILB life (I followed TPM's with great interest). I enjoyed each I read; each provided more insights and view points. Good stuff!)

 

Let me give you some more stories about host families. I personally know of a host family which took their players to an ATM on the first of every month so they could get their rent in cash; however, because ATM withdrawals are limited to $200 per day, they needed to pick up their players (two) the next day to complete the transactions; cash only, no checks. And this family was extremely wealthy (the city was also well off overall). So the assertion that all host families are good is simply false. Some are great, others the opposite with all shades in between.

 

I thank you for the time you took to advise these young men. Believe it or not, you are not unique; many people help players selflessly and out of their desire to help young men who could use advice. 

 

Every part of the MILB experience is woven into the tapestry of the lives of those who live it. There is lots of learning - baseball and life - going on for these young men. Mr. Zebrecht, at the least has learned another lesson: watch what and how you say things to the press. Best to learn that lesson young.

 

The players lives are not horrible and not perfect; at their ages they can adapt to their individual situations. They deal with the crap so they can do what they love - for the brief time they are paid to do it. This ability to adapt, overcome, roll with the life makes them so much more as a person when they leave the players life - and, that is what, IMO, makes it worthwhile. In no way, shape, or form, is the time spent climbing the pyramid wasted.

 

(As an aside, it just so happened that yesterday, I was indeed sitting in on a conversation dealing with a dispute between the trainer of Club A and the team's MLB doc over a players condition. Through that and other experience, I have a passing knowledge of physical issues - not much more then that though.)

Grateful for what? Those aren't extra perk.  If he complained he had to drink from a waterhose; i guess that would be ungrateful also?

ungrateful was a poor choice of words. I guess I meant I feel he shouldn't have necessarily named those towns.

and I used to drink out of a water hose as a kid, actually did the other day when working outside. I was very grateful for the water cause I didn't want to walk inside for a drink

Being and undrafted free agent in basketball or football is also incredibly hard. MiLB may not be the best in terms of locations and facilities but at least there is a vehicle to earn your way into the Majors. If you are undrafted into the NFL where can you play to get a shot at the NFL? Answer.....CFL at best ( but very few make progress to become NFL players ). 

This further proves how tough it is to get into the MLB and how those players are truly the best in the world. Without the passion for baseball there would be no minor league games in small towns across the country

Interesting thread.  I've never really talked to any players in depth about their MILB experiences and, while I've read some (probably mostly on this site) and watched a documentary or two on MILB life, this thread has proved quite informative.

 

What is striking to me, though, is the manner in which this particular debate is being navigated by the many posters.  While there is clearly strong disagreement on some things, everyone has been quite civil.  I have found my own opinion shifting back and forth somewhat (and that doesn't usually happen) with the various informative posts and POV's stated.  Once again, a tip of the cap to the kinds of extraordinary things that can happen here at HSBBW.

Not to mention the potential opportunity to earn a living playing baseball in Japan, Korea, Mexico or other international spots.  Its not the MLB and you usually are not raking in huge bucks, but, you are playing ball for a living.  

I have a friend who is a former first round draft pick.  He was the MLB several times, although not for long stints.  He said he was lied to and manipulated (basically being brought into a team as a motivating wedge to another, more desire player) by MLB teams when it came clear he wasn't going to be a 10 year guy....at least that was his perception. 

He had a couple of bad experiences, but, over all he spoke pretty highly of his experiences playing international bill.  He really enjoyed playing in Japan.  He said as a player you are treated very well and he was making good money in Japan.  In Mexico where he played off and on for about 6 seasons he said the stadiums, accommodations and play was about equal to AA ball.  

Point is, if you are good enough to be on the cusp of MLB you have other opportunities. 

The person who penned this article comes off a little entitled.  I get that minor league can be a tough go.  Guess what?  Most actors live in studio apartments and barely make enough to eat.  Most lawyers are not driving Ferraris and are not working cases on tv for celebrity clients.  Most jobs are just that....jobs.  Baseball is no different. 

AMEN!!!

I don't think it could have been stated better.  In the interview he came off as a spoiled brat, who was used to the high life.  I make no apologies for reading an article and forming my own opinion. 

This point has come up a few times.  Is this something that a person really has control over?   Some of the colleges one son is currently considering are located in rural, fairly depressed areas.  While we are not wealthy, he has grown up and spent his first twenty years in places where the houses and yards are nice, where most of the buildings are in good repair and businesses are bustling.  His first few years away at college were in a big city that is busy and thriving with endless options for social activities and entertainment.  We can talk to him at length about what a difficult adjustment he may be facing and how best to handle it and how to be sensitive to those who live in such a different setting.  But if he goes that route, he WILL experience difficulties adjusting and he WILL react, perhaps sometimes in a less-than-ideal manner .  To an extent, that will be perhaps through no fault of his own but simply due to the significantly different circumstances in which he has lived, most of which he had no choice or say.

 

Perhaps the player in the OP should have known better than to criticize specifically the town that was supporting the team that he was playing for.  I'm not completely defending that.  But here's another related point...  Since we have been going through the recruiting process once again, I have been reading a lot of college reviews by students.  A common thread that appears again and again is strong criticism of the small towns these schools are located in, how run down they are and how little there is to do there.  Should these college grads be more appreciative of their alma maters?  Or is this providing helpful, valuable information for those who are considering taking this path?  Still not sure there is a definitive answer... just thinking out loud. 

I hear ya.  

My son is in a similar situation, heading off to a small school in a small town thats main employer is a prison.  A person may have to go a little bit outside of their comfort zone to connect with some friends there or it may not matter that much to them.  

But, a person always has control how they treat other people.  The adjustment period is a real thing.  Coming from a place where that is not a big city, but, that does have stuff going on....we can walk to the end of our street and look down on city lights that include several casinos and concert venues ect....to a town you can drive through in under 5 minutes....there will be an adjustment.  Even if he think the people are rubes or something having enough good sense and humility to treat people with respect should not be an adjustment. 

We went on a visit to meet the coach ect. a month or so ago.  My son had played in the little town before so he knows how small it is.  He was at a school with a pretty decent size enrollment near the Cali coast last year.  When were having lunch at the local pizza place my son got to talking to the young lady working the counter.  He sat down and said, "Hey, its a small town but Im like a 9 here.  I was like a 6 at the last place." 

Gotta find the positive.  

 

Great points.  Completely agree and I was counting on someone hitting on those (and love the 9/6 story).  I wonder, though, if the player in OP even considered that he was being disrespectful to any PERSON by criticizing the town.  I would guess not.  I think, perhaps, that he didn't connect the dots on that thought process.  Again, not an uncommon learning curve for even some of the finer young people to go thru. 

Wow this simple article posting has created quite the thread!
My irrelevant take:
- don't talk to press unless fully prepared to take a beating; even a local, small circulation.  I agree the naming city wasn't appropriate but wouldn't surprise me for a second if the person feels it was printed out of context or other quotes he provided were left out for editing/final print.
- it's terrific that people are sticking up for the cities, odd though that in sticking up for the cities some posters do the same thing to the former player. As one poster who actually knows him shared, he doesn't appear to be a jerk
- all the comments about silver spoon are conjecture in my opinion. Nothing in article gave detailed financial data of his parents and what they did or did not do for him. There are most certainly some wealth disparity issues in our country but I am tired of anyone who has a "perceived" amount of wealth as being a villain and that their children are spoiled. I will just keep trying to do what generations did before me; work hard, get ahead, teach/practice good values assist my kids to do better than I did (in whatever course they wish life to take them).
- appreciated his honesty, he thought he was prepared but acknowledged he wasn't. Liked previous poster who said it was refreshing not to give  cookie cutter quotes. He was "mature" enough to touch on lack of academic attention while in college and came across to me he would be great person for aspiring college/potential draftee player to talk to.

I was speaking more to the situation my son is in and some of the schools you said your son is considering.  

I don't think the OP was trying to be disrespectful at all.  He was just giving his experience.  Thats cool by me.  I would rather read an honest accounting of a persons experience than have them just say "everything was great".  Nothing wrong with honesty. 

It has always struck me funny when people get defensive about where they live.  If you enjoy where you are who cares what someone else thinks?  

What happened to the OP smokeminside? I th

Great discussion, folks.  

 

All I have to add is:

• Having been to Hagerstown I can say the kid has a point.
• If calling that town or any other town shitty is the most immature or most rude thing I see said or done by an adult today it will be a very good day indeed.   

Not sure what happened - wrote a nice long post thanking smokeminside for getting the discussion kicked off.  I think we should start a new thread with pictures of the ugliest team bus - lots of discussion about the length of bus rides, not much mention of the actual buses.

I don't feel sorry for this person.  I don't dislike this person.  Not sure what the interview accomplished other than to tell something most people already know.  I do think he went too far, though.

 

I had two sons that played in the following leagues.  Rookie Ball in Florida, Pioneer League, NY/Penn, Sally, Florida State, Eastern League, International League, Pacific Coast League, Arizona Fall League, National League, American Leagues, various Winter Leagues.  I can honestly say they never once complained about any experience they had along the way.  Didn't ask for any help with money or complain about conditions.  One actually made quite a bit of money, but had to go through every level along the way.

 

I understand the low pay, the conditions, the bus rides, etc.  It isn't easy and none of it was a surprise to them. They both knew what they were getting into.  Neither of them signed for a big contract originally.  

 

Most college players want to play in summer leagues. Conditions are not all that great there in many cases.  Some leagues (i.e. Northwoods) have a lot of travel.  And it is after they have played the college season, sometimes right up until fall practice.  Players want to do this, and we all know what the salary is for those players.

 

Nothing against those that don't like it and want to do something else.  I look at it as a "game"!  It is a game and they are playing that game.  Some continue to play after high school. Some continue to play after college.  Some continue to play in town ball leagues and it actually costs them money to play.  And some go on to play in professional baseball. Nearly every player hopes and prays that he gets that chance to play professional baseball.  Sure there is that big carrot out there if they make it big, and they get to play the game they love in order to chase the dream. Only 750 at a time can be at the top level, but someone has to be one of those 750.  So some do make it and many don't make it while they play a game they love.  Because the minor leagues is no place for those that don't love the game.

 

So no matter how bad it might seem to some, I will never feel sorry for any player that ever played professional baseball.  Not when I know how many would do anything to play at that level and experience something very special in their lives. I'm sure not feeling sorry for someone that graduated from Penn and played at USC because of some town he was in that he thought was "shitty" or some long bus ride he took.  Yes, that was an ungrateful, demeaning, thing to say in an interview for publication.  Sounds more like bar room chatter!  Who knows, maybe it was.

 

BTW, I also am a veteran (US Army).  Back in 1966 I think I was paid less than $100 a month.  Never would I compare being drafted in the Army to professional baseball in any way.  I would much rather play a game I love than live in the conditions we had at times in the Army. Yet, it too was an experience and an education being in the service. If I had the choice I would have skipped that experience.  People do have the choice to skip playing baseball.

 

 

 

 

cabbagedad,

What a truly interesting perspective. Thank you for bringing it into this discussion.

I think it is a question of how it is approached and how "opportunities" are viewed.

I grew up in a town which was over 100,000 people as late as 1950. Now it is about 12,500.  Mining town with an open pit mine which is both an eyesore and one of the largest environmental waste sites in our country.  A group of friends and I just returned from our 20th trip together.  Yes, the town has issues.  We don't go for that. We go for the people and the opportunity to be together.

Our son's college coach had a similar view about baseball. When he recruited our son, he talked about how baseball provides opportunities to see, visit and be part of communities we would never otherwise experience.  That includes the people of those communities. It is not all about baseball. Part of it is about the people who love the game and who see players on a Milb field in Hagerstown as their extension and connection to baseball.

MILB players have a unique talent. Whether a player is in Hagerstown, Auburn, Idaho Falls or other locations, there are almost always 5-12   year olds attending those games for whom a player is an "idol" creating a "dream" for  young people who perceive them as 12 feet tall,  in the way many of us perceive baseball through movies such as  Bull Durham and Field of Dreams.  In addition to the 5-12 year olds, there are Charlie Wride's in every community.  There are people who love baseball. People who live in "dumps" can love baseball. I strongly believe those people need to be appreciated by those who are their extension of this wonderful game.

If the players who are in Milb view those communities as a "dump," how is that so much different than the challenges talked about on this site many times of the struggles baseball is experiencing with inner cities? 

Milb players who "invest" in the people of the small communities bring far more "baseball wealth" than money.

Even though MLB does not treat players fairly and properly in many ways, the player is an extension of a game. In those communities, players are ambassadors of the game.  If the players see the people in the town as an opportunity, as the ability to experience a part of our Country they would never otherwise experience, there is just not much better.

If this interview said something like Milb is terribly challenging (with examples) but the people in Auburn, Hagerstown, etc were some of the nicest I have ever met and I truly appreciate that aspect of a very challenging baseball experience,  I just sense it would have been so much better than I went from "being given everything to being given nothing" while playing in "$hitty, dumpy" towns.

Just my views coming from perspective that the people make the town, no matter how the town looks. Players make their own experience.

One part of this article which is very, very true: for most who get drafted or signed as free agents, Milb "gives" them nothing.  Most have to "earn" everything.

What I found interesting about the article was the change in relationship with teammates. I think he's correct there. It must be a strange shift from seeing your teammates as guys you cheer for to guys who are in your way and direct job competition. That's an unusual situation. It's like they brought you and another guy into your work and told you one of you will be gone in a week. You aren't exactly going to be cheering for that guy to do work that helps the company.

 

I also don't take too much stock in his assessments of the towns where he played. 18-22 year-old kids are usually going to think small towns with nothing to do are "dumps." It doesn't matter how beautiful or wholesome they are.

It is an odd situation when your team mates and friends are also your competition.  It's true that the minor leagues are more about the individual in many ways. It is still a team and everyone wants to win, but nobody wants to return the following year.

 

I have often said, the truest form of baseball is college ball.  The players live together, but the team aspect is much more important.  Some might argue that it is high school ball, or some might say youth baseball, but for me there is nothing better than college baseball.  It doesn't even matter what level as long as it is good baseball.  The most actual "fun" I have ever had in baseball was coaching in college.

Great point and one very worth discussing as well as the seeming preoccupation and fear of the "release."

Perhaps this player missed it or his organization did not preach it, but our son and everyone on his teams, from day one, learned the phrase "focus only on what you can control."  While it is a tough mindset, it is an important one in Milb.  There is no ability to control how well the player next to you is performing and their is no ability in Milb to control the line up card being assigned to the manager by the head of Milb player development.

When injury, for instance, removes the ability of a Milb player to focus only on what he can control, and he is watching others move past him on the field when he cannot play, it can be terribly challenging.  From the information I have, I would think it is almost impossible to succeed in Milb if the competition created by others and having an almost obsession with "being released" cannot be controlled through the mindset of the player.

Professional Baseball is for entertainment, so I feel the only good comparison is with the entertainment industry.  Rising actors, dancers, performers, writers, and the like.  

 

Living and wage conditions.  We are talking about young men.  Just about every sub 25yr old I know live in very similar situations.  IE low end apartments, sharing rooms, broke down furniture, etc....  Or they live at home.  We keep talking about $1100 a month.  Don't they get a daily per diem as well?  Isn't food and drink supplied at the stadium? 

 

I don't know, I just don't see the problem. 

Great post.  Great points. 

I'll certainly be recommending this as a read for son and hope many others benefit from it as well.

Somewhat off-point... I grew up in such an area as well - steel mill town that went south in a big way forty years ago.  Still reeling.  I left back then.  My only regrets are being so far removed from family and friends (the people).  That said, most eventually followed, migrating out of that area.  On the other hand, they recently plugged a MILB team there and I'm sure it is a much-needed point of pride for the town.

They get per diem only when they travel and what hey get my be just enough for a single meal.  Some food and drink is supplied and depending on the club and level, it's not much nor not enough unless you're first in line.

 

Don't forget, they are bound by a 7 year contract and can not choose to play somewhere else for better benefits during that period (unless they signed as an undrafted free agent, then their contract may be much shorter).