Guidance and suggestions invited - 14U baseball player

You will get many responses on specifics.  A quick one...increase strength and athleticism.  ie, workout, sprints/ladders/core/plyo type workouts.  A good personal trainer can get him started, evaluate his strength and weaknesses, develop a 10 week training program.

Wow, sounds very close to my son..... almost too close. Just kidding. My son was also 6'1 and 140 at 14. Now 6'2 and 165 and will turn 16 end of Nov.  In my opinion keep pitching, get a good coach and go once a week or every other week. But try to get stronger overall, core, legs everything. I can't tell you what a difference the added weight and strength made in my boys body control and mechanics and therefore his velolcity increased a lot. Plus it increased his confidence and overall attitude. I would say run, run, and run some more and just add a good overall strength program.

Pitchers and even position players should take at least one good break from throwing every year. From now until January would be good. Also check out the recommendations at ASMI.org.   In the meantime, get some Jaeger bands (http://www.jaegersports.com) and work with those, (they come with workout booklets, if I recall correctly, plus there is a ton of stuff online)  and do lots of core work.  Stronger core = more velo and less stress on the arm.

Our plan, take it or leave it. Agreed, take the 2 to 3 month break that is universally recommended, don't touch a ball. One warning and this is real, seen literally dozens of kids in your sons age range (mine included) have growth plate issues in the elbow and/or osgood schlatter in the knee. Let the growth spurt happen without any ridiculous strain, get the jaeger bands, comes with an exercise sheet with all the moves, also available is an online youtube video, takes 15 minutes a day. I say stay away from weights for the year. Do body weight exercises, lunges, pushups and pullups. My kid is a 2020 PO, and is just starting a 2.5 month break and is doing (don't laugh) YOGA. The #2 2020 prospect in the nation doesn't touch a weight, does yoga. A local 2019 LSU commit, same thing, no weights, yoga. Yoga is no joke, hard to do, be ready to sweat. Yoga is core, balance, and flexibility all in one. After the break start a long toss pull down program. Stay healthy.

Pick a position before Jr. season.  I see too many kids try to play at a high level, pitching and catching,  pitching and third,  won't work for 99% of them....

At this point I don't think he needs to make a decision on playing as a position player or pitcher.  He has a couple of years before that decision needs to be made.  Most likely the game will let him know when that time comes.

Regardless of how much he has pitched this year, learn about arm care and off season rest.  Its essential to a healthy arm.  The arm needs a couple of months off after a season for all the micro-tears and other damage to heal.  There is lots of good information out there.  In general if your season ends in October, you should not start throwing again until January or so.  Thats not to say you should not work out, just no throwing.  

If you don't have an offseason workout plan, I would take a look at the throwers 10.  In addition when you do get back to throwing, I would incorporate a long toss program early on to get  you ready for the bull pens.

Improving his arm care and strength can only help with his position playing.  In addition to hitting and speed, the college guys look at a kids arm strength from their position as one of the recruiting decision factors.

I'm the mom of a 14u 2020.  Is your son shaving yet?  My sons coach has said not to pick up a weight, that is more than 20 pounds, until a kid is shaving, regardless of what he LOOKS like.  His theory is that all the growth plates and inner body changes are done enough, when a kid is shaving, to pick up a weight.  Until then he recommends the bands that have the kids own body weight work against him during speed and agility.

The single thing that helped my son the most was speed and agility training, which should be offered at a variety of your local sports gyms.  He grew about a foot over a 12 month period and frankly he didn't know where his body parts were, this affected his hitting and his pitching.  Speed and agility not only taught him good form but taught him how to use his body.  My son also runs, but he runs with proper form that was taught during speed and agility. As he strengthened his core his arms for sure got more power in them.

I didn't let my son touch a weight until he was shaving.  Others will say that was unnecessary, that there is no proof it harms kids to weight lift before they are shaving....I'm very okay with my choice.  Bottom line, 8th graders have time.  The strength will come with time and as his body morphs more into an adult body with adult muscles. Until then it is my belief that a kid can harm themselves with weights.

As for shutdown, throwing affects ALL kids.  I would encourage the shutdown period where he doesn't throw a ball for 2-3 months every year.  I would also encourage at least once a month pitching lessons.  My son wasn't throwing properly and his arm began to hurt.  If your son knows he wants to pitch you should make sure he has a very good start on his mechanics. I don't care if my son is pitching 60mph or 80mph as long as he is throwing the ball correctly, he cares but I really don't.

8th grade is also too young to pick just one position, in my opinion.  Currently my son plays RHP, C, OF, 1B, 3B, and occasionally MIF.  Being a real utility player is very helpful to coaches.  If your son can still hit and still play a position and also pitch then he should keep doing all of that until a coach tells him he needs to pick.

I have a 14U who happens to enjoy basketball, which in my opinion, solves several of these issues. #1: It starts at the perfect time of year to transition from Fall Baseball winding down. #2: It gives him a mental break from the long baseball grind. #3: It is not really viewed as "training for baseball" but in essence, it is. ( running, sprints, vertical, shuffle, explosive actions, hand-eye coordination). #4: It is fun.

I would encourage some other activity for the Fall / Winter non-throwing months. Basketball, swimming, yoga, karate. Anything that works the core & legs & incorporates agility that can be a "fun" distraction from what seems to be the now year long marathon of baseball activities for younger & younger players. 

Tampa2020 posted:

Our plan, take it or leave it. Agreed, take the 2 to 3 month break that is universally recommended, don't touch a ball. One warning and this is real, seen literally dozens of kids in your sons age range (mine included) have growth plate issues in the elbow and/or osgood schlatter in the knee. Let the growth spurt happen without any ridiculous strain, get the jaeger bands, comes with an exercise sheet with all the moves, also available is an online youtube video, takes 15 minutes a day. I say stay away from weights for the year. Do body weight exercises, lunges, pushups and pullups. My kid is a 2020 PO, and is just starting a 2.5 month break and is doing (don't laugh) YOGA. The #2 2020 prospect in the nation doesn't touch a weight, does yoga. A local 2019 LSU commit, same thing, no weights, yoga. Yoga is no joke, hard to do, be ready to sweat. Yoga is core, balance, and flexibility all in one. After the break start a long toss pull down program. Stay healthy.

 

That just sounds too Funny ! YOGA.  But it works.

In addition to all the good age-appropriate workout and rest info above, I would (if you don't have one already) seek out a good P instructor.  This is a great time to make sure throwing mechanics, head to toe, are in order.  This will help both his pitching and his position throwing, give him best chance at maximizing his velo and keep his arm healthy over the long haul.

Two thoughts:

1) Growth plate fusion in males can occur as late as the 20s.

2) A young athlete experiences far more forces playing their sport than they do in the weight room.

As a strength & conditioning coach, I have no problem with weight training for even pre-teen athletes, so long as: 1) the athlete has demonstrated good technique in bodyweight squats, pushups, pullups, general athletic movements, 2) in learning those movements they have demonstrated good "coachability", and 3) they continue to demonstrate good technique, under supervision, during a slow progression of external loading.

Matt Reiland posted:

Two thoughts:

1) Growth plate fusion in males can occur as late as the 20s.

2) A young athlete experiences far more forces playing their sport than they do in the weight room.

As a strength & conditioning coach, I have no problem with weight training for even pre-teen athletes, so long as: 1) the athlete has demonstrated good technique in bodyweight squats, pushups, pullups, general athletic movements, 2) in learning those movements they have demonstrated good "coachability", and 3) they continue to demonstrate good technique, under supervision, during a slow progression of external loading.

I knew SOMEONE would respond that it was fine for weight training kids...Matt, at the risk of derailing the thread, I have to ask, what is the point of weight training for pre-teen athletes?

I'll just add some thoughts of what I do with my just turned 13 yo eighth grader. Sprinting, sled type pulls- (small car tire hooked up to a back pack harness that fastens to waist and over shoulders, can add weight to tire inside not more than 20 lbs, speed ladder, shuttles, and 60 yd dash(training for school tryouts), and medicine ball work 6 and 8 lb balls.

This fall have started blocked deadlifts, calf raises, dumbbell squats, seated rows, forearm work. All this done with near minimal weights, mainly just getting the movements down with proper form. With him being a pitcher, have left out the shoulder/bench presses. He wants to do arm curls to work on his "noodles"...his words not mine. Its my opinion that if you've been around a gymn and know how to lift, than starting as an 8th grader learning proper form with weight amounts that don't cause a breakdown in that good form are far better than thumbing a video game for hours. I had a bench press and weights since I was in 6th grade. I never had a problem lifting and growing that I recall and had several friends nearby that lifted with me as well. All things in moderation helps here and keep the weights light when starting out. I spent a lot of hours working out with a competitive body builder who did movements in a controlled and focused manner. So for me, getting the form down is important.  

When he is doing blocked deadlifts, I am right there monitoring his spine, knees, and eyes. He was about 120lbs and just used the weight of barbell itself....35 lbs to start off. Slowly added 5 lbs each time but not worried about how much weight he finishes at but focus on how he handles each set. Dumbell squats don't go over about 30 lbs each hand at final set. Seated cable rows and forearm workouts are usually done on non leg days. Finally, he has just started working in box jumps. He seems to like that.

Hopefully if he makes his school team, he will have the proper form down to lift safely from the get go. My post is not meant to encourage others to get their kids lifting, just adding to what my kid has been doing this fall.

CaCO3Girl posted:

I knew SOMEONE would respond that it was fine for weight training kids...Matt, at the risk of derailing the thread, I have to ask, what is the point of weight training for pre-teen athletes?

Significant strength and weight gain won't happen until puberty, so the benefits prior to that would be:

-Injury prevention;

-Balanced development, especially for kids playing only 1 sport, but playing year-round;

-Improved proprioception and kinesthetic awareness - learning how their body moves;

-General physical capability;

-Improved overall athleticism - learning other movements, especially the more technical lifts like snatch or clean (taught by a qualified coach), helps kids learn movements in their primary sport more efficiently.

For the record, I am NOT questioning your parental decision to hold off on weight training, so apologies if my original post came off that way.

Matt Reiland posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I knew SOMEONE would respond that it was fine for weight training kids...Matt, at the risk of derailing the thread, I have to ask, what is the point of weight training for pre-teen athletes?

Significant strength and weight gain won't happen until puberty, so the benefits prior to that would be:

-Injury prevention;

-Balanced development, especially for kids playing only 1 sport, but playing year-round;

-Improved proprioception and kinesthetic awareness - learning how their body moves;

-General physical capability;

-Improved overall athleticism - learning other movements, especially the more technical lifts like snatch or clean (taught by a qualified coach), helps kids learn movements in their primary sport more efficiently.

For the record, I am NOT questioning your parental decision to hold off on weight training, so apologies if my original post came off that way.

You weren't being attack like Matt, but this seems to come up often on this site.  Since we are both rational people let's discuss. 

Couldn't you get many of those pro's from speed and agility classes without weights?  What specific advantage would weights have to a kid before he can shave?

Gmnk posted:

I'll just add some thoughts of what I do with my just turned 13 yo eighth grader. Sprinting, sled type pulls- (small car tire hooked up to a back pack harness that fastens to waist and over shoulders, can add weight to tire inside not more than 20 lbs, speed ladder, shuttles, and 60 yd dash(training for school tryouts), and medicine ball work 6 and 8 lb balls.

This fall have started blocked deadlifts, calf raises, dumbbell squats, seated rows, forearm work. All this done with near minimal weights, mainly just getting the movements down with proper form. With him being a pitcher, have left out the shoulder/bench presses. He wants to do arm curls to work on his "noodles"...his words not mine. Its my opinion that if you've been around a gymn and know how to lift, than starting as an 8th grader learning proper form with weight amounts that don't cause a breakdown in that good form are far better than thumbing a video game for hours. I had a bench press and weights since I was in 6th grade. I never had a problem lifting and growing that I recall and had several friends nearby that lifted with me as well. All things in moderation helps here and keep the weights light when starting out. I spent a lot of hours working out with a competitive body builder who did movements in a controlled and focused manner. So for me, getting the form down is important.  

When he is doing blocked deadlifts, I am right there monitoring his spine, knees, and eyes. He was about 120lbs and just used the weight of barbell itself....35 lbs to start off. Slowly added 5 lbs each time but not worried about how much weight he finishes at but focus on how he handles each set. Dumbell squats don't go over about 30 lbs each hand at final set. Seated cable rows and forearm workouts are usually done on non leg days. Finally, he has just started working in box jumps. He seems to like that.

Hopefully if he makes his school team, he will have the proper form down to lift safely from the get go. My post is not meant to encourage others to get their kids lifting, just adding to what my kid has been doing this fall.

I specifically hired a trainer to assess my son, and to teach him to properly do the basic lifts about a year and a half ago.  So when he does something stupid in "unsupervised" weight lifting with a bunch of other dumb butt freshman punks, (him potentially being the dumbest) he will at least do it with proper form.

Interesting discussion.  I have a 14yr old 2020 who is around 6'2" and 195lbs.  He's a late bloomer in that he didn't really start to take sports seriously until last year when he was on the middle school football, basketball and baseball team.  He knew heading into this year that playing time on JV football would be tough to come buy and making the other teams where there are cuts would be difficult as a freshman. 

He spent most of the summer going to "speed camp" 4 afternoons a week with a few other kids at a gym we have been going to for years for our 2016.  Lots of sprints, footwork drills, working on form, explosive movements instead of steady cardio.  He also lifted on his own at the gym (he has worked out with the trainers in the past to put together a workout and work on form).   I think that really helped him with coordination and body awareness - things he had been lacking at that size at an early age.  That combined with the football workouts in two a days and then 6 days a week after have left him a very large person in excellent shape.  I asked him to try to touch the rim the other day and he took three steps and got about his entire hand over it.  

So the other thing I would recommend - have them play fall and winter sports instead of just continuing baseball and off season workouts until they get further into high school and have to make a decision on one sport (if they do, I know some kids don't need too).   Playing football, soccer, basketball will get them in much better shape and work lots of different muscles than playing baseball.  Even just practicing/working out (if they end up on the bench during games) will help them become better overall athletes.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Matt Reiland posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I knew SOMEONE would respond that it was fine for weight training kids...Matt, at the risk of derailing the thread, I have to ask, what is the point of weight training for pre-teen athletes?

Significant strength and weight gain won't happen until puberty, so the benefits prior to that would be:

-Injury prevention;

-Balanced development, especially for kids playing only 1 sport, but playing year-round;

-Improved proprioception and kinesthetic awareness - learning how their body moves;

-General physical capability;

-Improved overall athleticism - learning other movements, especially the more technical lifts like snatch or clean (taught by a qualified coach), helps kids learn movements in their primary sport more efficiently.

For the record, I am NOT questioning your parental decision to hold off on weight training, so apologies if my original post came off that way.

You weren't being attack like Matt, but this seems to come up often on this site.  Since we are both rational people let's discuss. 

Couldn't you get many of those pro's from speed and agility classes without weights?  What specific advantage would weights have to a kid before he can shave?

Sure, I'm not knocking speed and agility classes.  If anything, it's more accessible - meaning, you need very little equipment, and it's probably easier to find someone to coach you through some agility drills than correctly teach a snatch or clean and jerk.  Easier to get started and see benefits.

However, I mentioned balanced development.  I don't see a speed and agility class, without weights, being able to effectively offset the accumulated one-sided hitting and throwing reps of a kid who plays baseball most of the year.

Personally, I see a blurry line.  How effective is speed and agility if cleans, squats, and plyos are not also being done?  How effective is strength & conditioning for sports if it doesn't also include speed and agility?  Rhetorical questions, just pointing out that they should complement each other instead of either/or.

I have a 14U 8th Grade son, too... he is 5'9" 140 pounds right now, won't turn 14 until the end of February.   I make him take 2 months off every year, so he's on a break from Baseball right now.  We'll start up again in late December/early January.    He's playing on his middle school Basketball team and does a once a week Speed & Agility class.  He's also starting to do Yoga to build up his core strength.   Call me old school but I'm not gonna let him start lifting weights until  he gets further along in his growth spurt and/or his growth plates close.

I would echo what others have said about taking it easy on the arm.   I've seen way way too many arm injuries in this age group.   Kids playing all summer, then Fall Ball, then doing a showcase in early November and starting right up with team practices in mid-November.  Completely crazy to me.

MKbaseballdad posted:

 

So the other thing I would recommend - have them play fall and winter sports instead of just continuing baseball and off season workouts until they get further into high school and have to make a decision on one sport (if they do, I know some kids don't need too).   Playing football, soccer, basketball will get them in much better shape and work lots of different muscles than playing baseball.  Even just practicing/working out (if they end up on the bench during games) will help them become better overall athletes.

Thanks to everyone for the good information, and food for thought.