Have we (Coaches, parents) been doing it all wrong?

It's not about the younger generation. People have known this (to an extent) for centuries, but for whatever reason, the ideas have not been put into practice.

 

As a senior NCO, I would say that your bootcamp analogy isn't totally relevant--it has a different overall purpose than sports. Obviously, some things are very similar in their goals, but the key for bootcamp is to indoctrinate and perform under high-stress situations; things that don't exist in sports to the same degree. 

 

I use this with my Soldiers all the time (some of who are older than me.) It does maximize performance--the method of "Scream, scream, scream, yell, yell, yell" can have its place, but when used as a primary method of coaching or training, it gets people to do just enough to not get yelled at or to be just better than the person next to them.

Great post YGD.  I can honestly say that I am sometimes guilty of being the shouting motivator tom my own kids, yet embracing that philosophy outside of the household when coaching.  It seems to work well with the younger kids, just need to remind myself to be patient in the other setting.

 

I can absolutely relate to this philosophy in my work as a School Resource Officer. It works very well with helping a child calm down when your able to listen, digest and respond in such a manner that the child can relate.

Meh.  Not a fan of the way it's written.  But I don't  hate the message.  Is it better to be a hard-ass?  Sometimes, with some kids, sure it is.  But at the risk if getting all melodramatic, I will say this.  I have a 2017 and a 2015, both boys. Both want to get into top colleges. But both have inherited their dad's fondness for merging with the couch, hanging with friends,  and/or chasing skirts when they would be better off taking care of business.  I do push them, but sometimes I wish I was the hard-ass with them that my dad was with me. (BTW, they think I am a hard-ass but they really have no idea) But usually when I get to that point, I remember the day several years back when my neighbor, who pushed his own HS kid very, very hard, came home to find that kid swinging from a beam in the garage. And I pull back. Maybe a mental health day is a good idea sometimes.

 

If you're a fan of one of Auburn's rivals, you could have said, "If you're worried about mental health, you shouldn't have gone to Auburn."

This is how you motivate anyone!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7ymriMhoj0

 

 

 

Coming from a Marine Corp background I'm also hard on my son. Only problem is, he already knows I'm really not. Dag it.

 

I don't buy into the feel good motivation at all. I think it's turning our sons into wimps. Just saying.

Apollos Hester is the man!.  Thanks BOF, really needed a lift today.

 

Okay, I am actually a mom, therefor a female, and even I think that article is written by a wuss that my 5 year old could beat up!

 

Come on!!!!  Is there a time and place for empathy, yes there is.  Your parents just got divorced, your brother has been in a wreck, your family uprooted you in your senior year and moved across the country....there is a time and place for kid-gloves but not daily!

 

My kid is only 12 and I'll tell you right now if his new coach wanted to have a heart to heart on what's going on in his life that makes him unable to catch a pop up or get his glove on the ground I would put up with that ONCE!  After that my kid better be running poles and doing pushups for OBVIOUSLY just not concentrating, or we would be looking for another team.

 

I seriously doubt the head Baseball coach at a D1 school will be sitting down and having a heart to heart talk with 35+ players.  It's our job to prepare our kids for the future and if our kid wants to play D1 ball then his future will not entail heart to hearts with coaches on a consistent basis.  My son should be able to go to his coach if he has a problem like I stated above that might require empathy but this coddling crud of this generation is just aggravating me. 

 

I just want a sign to hang around my kids neck that says "No one owes me anything, I must earn whatever I want, and life isn't always fair" 

 

 

Without empathy it is impossible to accurately assess what can make someone more productive. Empathy doesn't mean lack of accountability, it doesn't mean taking it easy. It means that you seek to understand someone else's perspective.

 

That's fine, and no one would argue otherwise. But that has nothing to do with empathy.

Seeking someone else's perspective is fine and often helpful, but what that article says is not just empathy.  I think many coaches approach players with a statement like "Come on guys this isn't your first game, can anyone explain the 6 errors we had that inning?", no one will have an explanation and poles will be ran.   I honestly think the approach below will lead to shell-shocked children as they progress in the sport, and while this approach is great for a 6 year old, it won't do the 14 year old any favors..

 

Excerpt:

"When you are frustrated at their performance and want to tell them, can you start with words of compassion and understanding?  Step into their shoes for just a moment.  Once you do this, you gain "heart" access to proceed into the reason for your high expectations and the belief that they are capable of more"

 

http://growingleaders.com/blog...eration-iy-athletes/

That is precisely what empathy is. Knowing where your training audience is so that you can deliver what you need to say in a way that it will be most productive.

I was never bothered by screaming coaches. My kids have never been bothered by screaming coaches. I told them to tune out the delivery and hear the message. But never give them the "whatever" look when tuning out the delivery.

I don't want to yell for 2 hours to get my point across. I prefer to talk and look them in the eye, when I start getting loud somebody is in trouble. I once had a mom who decided that affirmation would be better on our team than the way we were teaching, developing players, and winning, so I cut her kid and they bounced around from team to team the next 5 years. I guess they never found a team that was all about affirmation.

I have to admit that I would have expected if any Mom read the article and responded that she would have most likely been the one to "agree" or lean to what the article said because it's her "baby", etc. while us Dads tend to be more harder and want someone to motivate our boys into  young men while challenging them like a "man", etc. But to see CaCO3Girl reply the way she has to show that she also is not only tired of the softening of our kids by stroking their little "feel good" ego's but, that her thoughts are more in line with how I think most of us are about tough love is just awesome. I mean, a "mental health" day? Are you serious? Are these the kids who needed to receive this mental health day when they get older? I'm trying to understand where does all this pampering lead TO...? Does it begin with the "Helicopter parent" syndrome?

I'll ask the question I always do when someone throws out these cliches: What evidence do you have that kids are being "softened?" What "pampering?"

I haven't bothered to read the linked article, but what's the difference between needing a "mental health" day in today's day and age, and calling-in sick or playing a little hooky to go fishing, just like in the "good ol' days"?

 

I used to work unreal hours, fly over 100,000 air miles a year, and frankly when I knew I was ahead of the game on work, and I needed a re-charge, I took "mental health" days.

 

Our son is a college senior, strong student, works hard, is a college baseball player.  He's also an avid fly fisherman.  If he mentioned to me he needed a "mental health day" and blew off a class or two to fish, I'd simply ask "Nice!  What'd you catch?"

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with taking a mental health day?  Even for 22 year olds?

What does that have to do with having a tough coach, teacher, parent, etc?

 

 

 

That's not the "heart talking" approach. If you want a good example of it, look at John Madden's coaching style. He would do the opposite of whatever everyone else in his players' lives was doing, because by being different, he ensured they would pay attention. If everyone was treating them like they were royalty, he'd take them down a peg. If everyone was riding their ass, he'd build them back up. He knew where his players were and how to be communicative.

Have we (Coaches, parents) been doing it all wrong?

 

IMHO - There is no "we" or "they".  Todays kids are different than when I was growing up.  Truthfully, I think my kids would have done excellent in my era....I'm not so sure I would have done as well as they have today.  It is hard being a kid today in many ways because there are many more pressures and pressures at a younger age. 

 

My hope is that coaches and parents learn how to best motivate their kids.  I liked it when Coaches pushed me either through yelling or reaching me at intellectual level.  My kids are the same way. 

 

There is no right or wrong just different ways to motivate.  I think it is up to the motivator to figure out which button to push.

Some might find this amusing.

My son played on an independent league this past season, they were defending champions.

The team was made up of all former affiliated players (except for  one who filled in at the end).  Many if not half played ML.

The players ranged in age from mid 20's the oldest being a former ML player at 38. This guy was amazing, and sometimes I do question why ML takes youth over older vets. He played EVERY game, and lead the league in some impressive stats.  

 

Just wanted to set the stage of what type of players these guys are.

 

Anyway, the team went on a losing streak, which I believe to be,  the league and team record. It was kind of deflating and kind of embarrassing as this was, as stated the defending champs.

 

Did the manager have a hissy fit, did they have to run extra poles?

 

No. They picked the line up out of a hat, and did so until the losses became a win.  It kind of helped to take the heat off, and added some laughs.

 

Just an example of how people motivate, there are all different ways. Youth coaches might motivate differently than HS coaches, college coaches motivate differently than professional coaches, etc.  There is no one size fits all.

 

JMO.

jermg43,

If you haven't joined here under another name, welcome aboard!

... sometimes I do question why ML takes youth over older vets.

 

$$$$$$$

yea I get that, but then there are some teams that need older guys with experience to get them through the tough times.  

 

The Service has Leaves, Employers have Vacations, Dick Vermeil and Vince Lombardi burned out and had to quit and get their heads together before returning.  John Wooden never screamed at anyone and managed to eke out a couple of W's.  Today's kids are human beings like all the us before them but somehow they are the doom of civilization.  

 

Stop it with we were tougher in the old days.  My generation has made hash of the world and we are dumping it on our kids.  We should be on our knees begging forgiveness for hosing up their birthright. 

 

The world they have to compete in is infinitely tougher than anything any baby boomer had to deal with.  Do not worry they will have to work their way all the way around the bases unlike us who were born on third and think we hit triples.

 

The last two generations are 1-2 in wars and spent the country into the biggest beggar nation in history.  Our record is terrible and implying that any given 22 year old high achiever that needs to recharge his battery is a symbol for the decay of the nation is misguided and wrong. 

 

The correct lens is to pray our kids will learn from our mistakes and be better than us.  Just like every generation in our history was...until us.  

This thread has the appearance of spiraling out of control.  In my first days as a moderator, I probably would have closed it by now but I think there have been some interesting points made.  I would ask members not to go back and forth with each other or we may be forced to close it out of respect for decorum.  I would ask members to respond to the subject matter of the thread rather than pick apart someone else's opinion or delivery of that opinion.

 

Sexism?  Our site imho is the least sexist of all sports sites in the country.  It is the only one that I am aware of where men and women are encouraged to contribute equally.  Lets leave judgments of peoples opinions for another day and for some other site.  I respectfully ask that bickering between members stop.  Thanks - your friendly, lovable, hsbbweb "moderator"

Administrator comment:

 

After consultation with ClevelandDad, we decided to prune back all the messages in this thread that called names or defended against a called name.

 

We'd like to keep this thread open.

 

As a general rule, when "tit for tat" digressions break out in a thread, the particpants are encouraged to take the side issue to a private dialog before they post the second message directed at an individual (as opposed to the issue).

you can't use the same method to get a message accorss every day, occasionally you have to mix it up for better results...it is all about levels and i am sure the author and i would disagree on levels!!

Making a blatantly sexist remark is OK. Pointing out that the remark is sexist is not. Thanks for clarifying.

Maybe TPM is right...perhaps this "community" isn't for me.

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. On social issues and such, I'll bet we're on the same basic wavelength, and I find a lot of interesting and helpful threads, viewpoints, and people here.

 

So more importantly, are you the parent of player(s)?  What level and what are they hoping to do in baseball? I have a 2017  who is a returning Varsity player who hopes to crack the starting lineup this year and make an impact. He (and his parents) are undecided on whether he wants to pursue college ball. 

jmerg43 - the moderators have already had a discussion about YOU behind the scenes.  Don't ask me how we know, be we know who YOU are.  I don't want to blow a valuable friendship over this, but I sincerely ask that you go away and clear your head.  I am asking you to lose the edge (anger) that seems to be boiling inside you right now - for whatever reason I DON'T KNOW!!!  When you feel the anger has subsided, please come back as yourself - and not before then.  All that is said with my utmost respect and concern. 

ClevelandDad- I have no clue what you're referring to other than to assure you that I am not angry about anything. My head is completely clear when I recognize that my posts were deleted after I pointed out something inappropriate on the message boards, and the inappropriate comment was not deleted. In fact, it seems to be defended by the moderators that are supposed to have the responsibility of maintained civility and appropriateness on the boards. If it's a problem that I have a problem with sexism then, as I said, maybe TPM is right. I'll leave. No need to have any sort of discussion about me or anything you alluded to.

So, in everyone's experience has your kid flourished better with a heart talking coach, a bully type coach, or something in the middle?

 

Looking at the televised games of various sports...it may be my imagination but College coaches come off a bit more hard core than I am use to...then again maybe I am just thinking of Bobby Knight :-)

Dudette, the moderators decided to clean up an otherwise helpful post from the "that's sexist" bickering.  Then you come back and start right up.  Nobody cares.  Get over yourself.

 

Sorry moderators.  Sometimes I can't help myself.  Back to the topic. 

 

Here is the story with my kid.  His coaches have generally been low key -- "get them next time" types.  He never advanced, just went about the motions.  He switched teams and we purposely chose a more "high strung" coach.  I wanted someone who would push him.  This guy is not warm and fuzzy.  You make a mistake, he lets you know about it.  Worse yet, he's a catcher so hears about it all inning long.  His mom (here come's the sexist comment) doesn't like it.  Wants to tell the coach to shut up and let him play.  Asked the kid about it and he says "mom, I just tune him out when I am concentrating."  Went thru a whole season and at the end I asked if he wanted to go back.  Without hesitation he said yes -- not kind of, sort of, ok, etc. 

 

Now here is the thing about my kid that the coach figured out right away.  He will just go thru the motions until you get in his face.  Once you "encourage" him and get his attention, he's a beast.  He has made great strides with this coach. 

 

But granted, each kid is different.  Some kids (and parents) on the team don't always respond as well.

That is what we are seeing with my son as well.  Our new coach calls him out on EVERYTHING he does incorrectly.  He is a former minor league catcher, my son is a catcher/pitcher/1B...so you can imagine the coach has a few things to say.  He skates that line so incredibly well where my kid is disappointed in himself that he didn't do the activity correctly which resulted in disappointing his coach...but he isn't broken down by the coach to make him think he can't play baseball.

 

This is our fourth year of travel ball and we feel our kid is finally coming out and trying 100%.  It really does come down to the type of coach.

you go CaCO3Girl. Were you ever in the Marine Corp?

Isn't this really the crux of the issue?  

 

Because kids ARE different, it's a lazy or ignorant coach who tries to motivate them all the same way.  IMHO

 

I would say also, that certainly there are differences between generations and the communities involved.  What was generally effective in one generation may not be as effective in another.  If one is wise, one will make the necessary adjustments to obtain the goals (which doesn't mean giving up on basic principles for human development).