Help on this call please

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/officia...ficial_scorer_10.jsp

 

Per 10.12 (a)(4), it'd be an error on the SS in MLB.  I don't have access to Fed rules, but can't see why they'd be different in this case.

I usually score to OBR as there aren't many differences. One is the definition of a wild pitch, but FED is just dumb and I don't use it.

 

The only thing I change is "the level of play" consideration on ordinary effort as HS is not MLB for fielders.

I would give a Fielder's Choice allowing the batter to reach base, and a 4-E6 allowing the baserunner to reach second. Remember that the second baseman gets an assist, since the error was charged to the SS. This counts in the 2B's favor when figuring fielding percentage.

I know it sounds cheesy but here goes- I score it all players safe on fielders choice with an error assigned to team and not player if it is clearly obvious it was an umpire miscall.

With all due respect, I've never scored an error to a "team". I've always given it to a player. Like a put out for the catcher when the batter steps on a fair ball, it isn't necessarily fair, they didn't earn it, but somebody has to either get it or pay the penalty.

 

In this vein, I don't keep defensive stats in HS. Way too small a sample size and the coaches can see good / bad on their own.

Originally Posted by JMoff:

With all due respect, I've never scored an error to a "team". I've always given it to a player. Like a put out for the catcher when the batter steps on a fair ball, it isn't necessarily fair, they didn't earn it, but somebody has to either get it or pay the penalty.

 

I sure wish I knew who the person was that started this “team error” stuff! Doing that would make it impossible to match the team totals with the total of the individuals, and that would cause all kinds of trouble because no one I know of keeps teams totals separately. Everyone I know of does what I do and adds up all the individual items.

 

In this vein, I don't keep defensive stats in HS. Way too small a sample size and the coaches can see good / bad on their own.

 

Yeah, but then the same could be said of hitting and pitching stats too. I eliminate any issues because when I set my stuff up, I started with the Official Score Report called for in OBR. Since then I have added many other items, but I never do less. Then like the other stats, I present what I have and let others decide how to use the information.

 

Personally, I think most HS defensive numbers are bogus, not because the sample size is too small, but rather the lack of reliability of the numbers. With the way players move in, out, and to different positions, its very likely even the best scorer will catch every change. That’s one reason why I track time in the field. It helps me catch all those defensive movements.

Fielders Choice for the hitter becasue you cannot assume DP.

 

E6 because he missed the bag allowing the runner to advance to 2nd instead of being Putout.  It is hard for me to think that it is beyond any HS Shortstop to be able to step on a base.

 

This always seems to become an issue when people start trying to calculate Earned Runs.  If that happens with 1 out and the next batter is retired and then the subsequent batter hits a homerun then all 3 are unearned.

"Team error" only applies in NFHS rules. Here is a case from official casebook-

9.5.5 SITUATION B:

B1 hits a pop-up behind second base that could easily be caught by either F4 or F6. The ball is not caught.

RULING: Since the ball could have been caught, it is a team error and is not a hit.

Personally I always like to rule in favor of the pitcher as its his a$$ on the line. I would definately score the play as a fielders choice, credit f4 with an assist and then assign "team error" on play if it was clearly obvious that the ss had no real error on his part. OBR rules demand a personal error assignment but High school rules allow for both personal and team error situations.

Originally Posted by Skylark:

…Personally I always like to rule in favor of the pitcher as its his a$$ on the line. I would definately score the play as a fielders choice, credit f4 with an assist and then assign "team error" on play if it was clearly obvious that the ss had no real error on his part. OBR rules demand a personal error assignment but High school rules allow for both personal and team error situations.

 

And because NFHS says there can be “team” errors, you believe its right? I suppose because NFHS says only pitches that tough the ground in front of home plate have to be wild pitches while OBR says any pitch that touches the dirt has to be, NFHS is right again, even though their standard is tougher than that for ML catchers.

 

I realize a lot of people hate having to write something on the scoresheet that makes some child look bad, but that’s the way it works. Its only a game!

NFHS  states on wild pitches-

9-6-1

ART. 1 . . . A wild pitch shall be charged in the summary to the pitcher when a ball legally delivered to the

batter is so high, or so low (including any pitch that touches the ground in front of home plate), or so far

away from home plate that the catcher does not stop or control it with ordinary effort so that the batter-‐

runner advances to first base or any runner advances a base. When the catcher enables a runner, other than

the batter-runner, to advance by failing to control a pitch that he should have been able to control, it is not a

wild pitch but a "passed ball."

That is no different than OBR rules.

I personally like the team error for high school. The situation regarding the play is that stats are usually tracked by the coach s a measurement for how kids are performing and not really used for some league bragging right. So in reality, a player shouldnt be seen as committing an error when they didnt commit one.

In reality one could argue that both runners were safe on a fielders choice and charge no error at all.

Perhaps you don’t bother with the subtleties, but you need to read the following CLOSELY.

 

The difference is, clown coaches and scorers who THINK catchers should catch EVERYTHING, use the NFHS rule to charge PBs rather than WPs when balls hit the dirt, other than in front of the plate. That’s about 6’ of difference. Perhaps you don’t think that’s significant, but if that’s true, you’ve never caught.

 

OBR 10.13 (a) The official scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball is so high, so wide or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. The official scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a wild pitch, permitting the batter to reach first base, the official scorer shall score a strikeout and a wild pitch.

Not sure what you are arguing, OBR and NFHS rules are the same regarding how to define wild pitches and passed balls. Im not some clown scorer, I know the rules pretty well.