Highest I've seen on TV so far is 93. 85 to 93 is the range....most pitchers 85-88, a few 88-90, 1 at 92, and 1 hit 93.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
It's the end of a long season. Velos drop.
It’s more than just end of the season. You don’t get in the door without maxing 90 at a showcase. These pitchers are only cruising 87/88. Some programs want to see cruising 90. Now add in learning how to pitch instead of throw. Command often involves decreased velocity. Only closers tbrow max speed. Then factor in the end of the season and pitching in mostly high leverage tournament situations.
I’ve had Bases Loaded on a lot of the last two days. I’ve seen plenty of 90+.
Yes but there are a few reasons for that. Coming up on 65 games for these teams is the biggest reason. The second is that you will see some - less powerful - schools due to auto bids. Not to say these teams are not good, but you stick Quinnipiac in the SEC and they most likely don't get this far. A team like that is recruiting from a much different pool than a SEC school that missed out on the tournament, just less firepower. The third is that even though the speeds might seem slower that is what these guys cruise at. That is the biggest difference between HS and college pitchers. The guy who is 87 in the 1st will still be 86/87 at pitch 95. In HS that kid is down to 81/82 and probably gassed.
Just proof that 84 can get the job done just as well as 96 when you're on.
I think the team that surprised me the most was UCLA....they ran out a lot of mid 80s guys.
On another point is everyone competent at ESPN either working a game or have the day off? The two people hosting Bases Loaded are annoying as can be. Whomever KB is has to add “hashtag” to a lot of her comments. Does she think her comments are so important they need to be on social media? If so, shut up on tv and go post.
Nonamedad posted:Highest I've seen on TV so far is 93. 85 to 93 is the range....most pitchers 85-88, a few 88-90, 1 at 92, and 1 hit 93.
LMU closer hit 96 last night while shutting the door on UCLA.
I don't know if it's tracked in college, but in MLB, velocity generally climbs as the season goes on -- lower in April, higher in August. For example: https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/...hly-velocity-trends/
It seems strange to me that it would be the opposite in college. Particularly when you factor in the intensity of a playoff atmosphere.
In the Arkansas vs TCU game last night, there were a lot of 94 mph fastball thrown by Lodolo and Campbell and then Cronin was mostly 95. TCU’s last reliever was 93-95.
2019Dad posted:I don't know if it's tracked in college, but in MLB, velocity generally climbs as the season goes on -- lower in April, higher in August. For example: https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/...hly-velocity-trends/
It seems strange to me that it would be the opposite in college. Particularly when you factor in the intensity of a playoff atmosphere.
I would assume that is mostly due to these kids being in HS 2/3 years ago getting 40-50 innings a season. Most of which are against far inferior competition -kids who can't catch up to 87 or more importantly, kids who can't really do a ton of damage. In college you have to go thru longer seasons of learning how to pitch to real hitters where every batter can hit and most are a threat in any count/situation.
I think by the time these guys climb thru all the levels of the minors they have their throwing routines and preparation down to a science. Knowing when to peak and when to coast. Love playoff games where starters who were mostly 94-95 crank it up to 99 in the middle innings.
Based on the excellent responses, it sounds like the OP thread is based on fake news.
Plus, as usual, people conflating max and cruising speeds.
Summary: "Little Johnny threw 87 once and I see kids that stole his scholarship cruising at 88 every single pitch and wahhhhh"
I think that the end of the season has a lot to do with it. One of the kids I know personally was 86-88 thru the conference tourney and his outing this weekend. He was 92-94 early in the year. I'm hoping it's just fatigue....he was the Friday starter...and not some kind of injury/issue. I would think that after 70+ innings that the arm has got to be a bit worn out at this point. It seems like most of the starters this weekend were in the 86-88 range, with the short relievers and closers being the guys throwing the mid-90's....which again would make sense. The starters have thrown a lot more innings. The relievers/closers should still be a bit fresher. Either way, it kind of shows that it's not a "must" to be able to cruise at 90 to play D1....which seems to be the thought process for kids as they are growing up and being recruited. If you can pitch, you can pitch
I watched freshman Gabe Shepard (Southern Mississippi) sit at 96 Saturday against ASU. As a starter. Pretty amazing as he's 13 months out from Tommy John surgery. Overall, my impression was that velo was noticeably up this year. Seems like I saw a lot more guys throwing 92-95 this year than I've seen in previous years. Still plenty of guys in the 85-89 range, but more guys in the 90s than ever before.
I saw multiple 95-96 velos on the night. But there are the guys who threw upper 80's. Again, two types of pitchers. Those who throw very fast with lack of great control and those who throw upper 80's with pinpoint control and multiple pitches. College sign both players and both can be successful.
PitchingFan posted:I saw multiple 95-96 velos on the night. But there are the guys who threw upper 80's. Again, two types of pitchers. Those who throw very fast with lack of great control and those who throw upper 80's with pinpoint control and multiple pitches. College sign both players and both can be successful.
Seems to me that D1 programs recruit HS kids that throw 90+ and hope they can turn into college pitchers. If not, they are replaced by transfers that throw <90 but are proven effective pitchers.
SultanofSwat posted:Based on the excellent responses, it sounds like the OP thread is based on fake news.
Plus, as usual, people conflating max and cruising speeds.
Summary: "Little Johnny threw 87 once and I see kids that stole his scholarship cruising at 88 every single pitch and wahhhhh"
Wow, never said or thought any of that....but congrats on being the first jerk to post. I wanted to comment on the never ending velo debate that THOUGHTFUL people discuss on this site regularly.
MidAtlanticDad posted:I watched freshman Gabe Shepard (Southern Mississippi) sit at 96 Saturday against ASU. As a starter. Pretty amazing as he's 13 months out from Tommy John surgery. Overall, my impression was that velo was noticeably up this year. Seems like I saw a lot more guys throwing 92-95 this year than I've seen in previous years. Still plenty of guys in the 85-89 range, but more guys in the 90s than ever before.
I didn't watch all the games and I thought the exact opposite...that velo was down this year. We must have watched different games.
While I’m sure you can cherry pick through starters at D1 level and find 85-88, the vast majority are 90+.
UGA has 2 freshman starters that sit 95+, one of them has hit 100. Their #3 starter sits 93-95.
Bergner from UNC was still sitting 93 with his fastball last night in the 7th and 114 pitches.
LSU has Peterson and Hess, both that sit 94-97. Also have Fontenot that has started and closed that sits 93-95. At least 2 of their freshman starters sit 92-93.
Those are just a few of the ones I know without thinking very hard. I don’t think anyone thinks you MUST sit 90+ to pitch at D1 level. But I can assure you there are WAY more 90+ than sub 90 guys at the power 5 level. This debate comes up EVERY year.
I’m not trying to be argumentative with the OP, but after 3 years following my son around the SEC and watching post season play all the way through the finals in Omaha, I can say this with confidence. The simple fact for any and all players striving to play at the very top level, you need to be able to pitch at 90+, not just throw hard. There are certainly a few sub 90 guys that have success. But the VAST majority are 90+. Also, velo will cover mistakes. You miss a spot at 87 and it is gonna get CRUSHED! You miss a spot at 95 and you will often get away with it.
I just don’t want parents getting their hopes up because they saw a kid on tv throwing 87 in a regional. Do your research. How many innings had that kid thrown? Could be that the team was out of pitching and he was what was available. Be very careful to make assumptions based on watching limited outings in the post season.
I’m just relaying what I saw, we can all make judgments and have opinions on what we saw... clearly 2 people can watch the same event and come away with 2 different thoughts.
I have no idea who the #3 starter on Ohio St is and I didn’t watch all the games, BUT I certainly saw mid 80s as the most common velo in the games I watched. Thats all I’m saying.
Nonamedad posted:I’m just relaying what I saw, we can all make judgments and have opinions on what we saw... clearly 2 people can watch the same event and come away with 2 different thoughts.
I have no idea who the #3 starter on Ohio St is and I didn’t watch all the games, BUT I certainly saw mid 80s as the most common velo in the games I watched. Thats all I’m saying.
Then you need to do more watching
Nonamedad posted:I’m just relaying what I saw, we can all make judgments and have opinions on what we saw... clearly 2 people can watch the same event and come away with 2 different thoughts.
I have no idea who the #3 starter on Ohio St is and I didn’t watch all the games, BUT I certainly saw mid 80s as the most common velo in the games I watched. Thats all I’m saying.
Tough to say. Ohio St was on their third high scoring game so pitching was most likely at a premium. That being said I also saw two lefties from the Buckeyes at 94 as well so it's a mixed bag.
On that same note, Ohio State barely made the Big 10 tournament. They were in 10th place heading into the final weekend. Not exactly an NCAA tournament team, just caught fire and earned the auto bid. But yes, I've seen plenty of 88. And 84 in a winners bracket game. A lot of it depends on the conference that you're coming from. The idea that you have to throw 90 to play D1 ball isn't true. But 87 in college is much different than a max 87 in HS. 87 in college actually means 87. 87 in HS usually means 87 in the early innings and 82 in the 6th.
At all levels of college play there is both good and bad baseball. The difference between the upper and lower end of the spectrum is pretty big in any classification. At the D1 level there are both very good and pretty bad teams. Same is true for D2, D3, NAIA & all levels of JUCO. Every D1 conference gets an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. The champions of the weakest D1 conferences are often not very good in comparison to the rest of the field. You can pitch on some teams in the SWAC throwing 84-87. But I see no value in playing in a low level conference just so someone can claim that you play D1 baseball. Just my opinion. If there is a pitcher on a good D1 tournament team that is under 90 there is something special about him. That fact tends to get overlooked on this board.
adbono posted:If there is a pitcher on a good D1 tournament team that is under 90 there is something special about him.
I wouldn't go that far. Many sub 90s are hurt, recovering, dual-position, switched from 3/4 to sidearm, or they have to throw curves since their FB didn't develop or was flat.
Brother in law said mine was mostly 92-93 last night according to the TV broadcast. I was at the game so I could not verify. Velos were not being posted on the video screen at the stadium. That is down a little from what I would normally expect.
adbono posted:But I see no value in playing in a low level conference just so someone can claim that you play D1 baseball. Just my opinion.
They still offer scholarships and an education. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that taking a 40% discount on a degree and a few more years of baseball is a bad idea.
Many of the low level D1’s only have six scholarships to divide up. A lot of the players aren’t receiving baseball money. So then it comes down to is it the right place academically.
In the past I talked to several NESCAC parents whose kids had lower level D1 offers. But the kids knew they were unlikely to go past college ball. So they took the best academic route and played D3 ball.
Sure, if the options are Whatsamattah U in D1 or Bumblefart State in D3 you go D1 if you can compete at the D1 level.
i can’t imagine passing up the best academic opportunity just to claim playing D1 ball. A lot of NESCAC (and similar) graduates end up in the same Wall Street firms and grad schools as Ivy graduates.
PABaseball posted:adbono posted:But I see no value in playing in a low level conference just so someone can claim that you play D1 baseball. Just my opinion.
They still offer scholarships and an education. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that taking a 40% discount on a degree and a few more years of baseball is a bad idea.
That is not the point.
PAC12 not having the greatest tournament, but it had the best first day of the draft:
https://twitter.com/Brian_Clem.../1135766199055376384
When you factor in that the PAC12 had 2 of the first 3 picks, and only has 11 baseball programs.
RJM posted:Many of the low level D1’s only have six scholarships to divide up. A lot of the players aren’t receiving baseball money. So then it comes down to is it the right place academically.
In the past I talked to several NESCAC parents whose kids had lower level D1 offers. But the kids knew they were unlikely to go past college ball. So they took the best academic route and played D3 ball.
Sure, if the options are Whatsamattah U in D1 or Bumblefart State in D3 you go D1 if you can compete at the D1 level.
i can’t imagine passing up the best academic opportunity just to claim playing D1 ball. A lot of NESCAC (and similar) graduates end up in the same Wall Street firms and grad schools as Ivy graduates.
I agree, but when you look at the tuition for the NESCACs you might reconsider and take that D1 offer, even if no money is included.
I also don't think many students who can get into a NESCAC or other HA type would even consider a Niagara, St. Peter's, UMBC type school even with baseball in the picture.
It should all be based on the best school/sport opportunity. After a certain threshold-the best education you can afford.
adbono posted:... But I see no value in playing in a low level conference just so someone can claim that you play D1 baseball. Just my opinion. If there is a pitcher on a good D1 tournament team that is under 90 there is something special about him. That fact tends to get overlooked on this board.
What if you are playing in a low level conference not so that you can claim you played D1 baseball...what if you are playing to get a discount on college, get a good education, and continue playing baseball. Conversely, some could say that someone attending a college that has a median SAT of less than 1400 is wasting his time when graduates of top schools make a multiple of the minimum MLB salary well into their 50s.
RJM posted:Many of the low level D1’s only have six scholarships to divide up. A lot of the players aren’t receiving baseball money. So then it comes down to is it the right place academically.
In the past I talked to several NESCAC parents whose kids had lower level D1 offers. But the kids knew they were unlikely to go past college ball. So they took the best academic route and played D3 ball.
Sure, if the options are Whatsamattah U in D1 or Bumblefart State in D3 you go D1 if you can compete at the D1 level.
i can’t imagine passing up the best academic opportunity just to claim playing D1 ball. A lot of NESCAC (and similar) graduates end up in the same Wall Street firms and grad schools as Ivy graduates.
Ah....Wall St firms. Now there is a group of institutions one should aspire to work for. A fine, honest, hard working group of people if there ever was one.
Nonamedad posted:RJM posted:Many of the low level D1’s only have six scholarships to divide up. A lot of the players aren’t receiving baseball money. So then it comes down to is it the right place academically.
In the past I talked to several NESCAC parents whose kids had lower level D1 offers. But the kids knew they were unlikely to go past college ball. So they took the best academic route and played D3 ball.
Sure, if the options are Whatsamattah U in D1 or Bumblefart State in D3 you go D1 if you can compete at the D1 level.
i can’t imagine passing up the best academic opportunity just to claim playing D1 ball. A lot of NESCAC (and similar) graduates end up in the same Wall Street firms and grad schools as Ivy graduates.
Ah....Wall St firms. Now there is a group of institutions one should aspire to work for. A fine, honest, hard working group of people if there ever was one.
Most people on Wall Street they are fine, honest, hard working people. These people don’t make the news. Do you stuff your money in a mattress?
in any profession there are bad people. But corrupt rarely works in the long run. The way to become successful is develop a reputation where both the seller and the buyer win. It brings a positive reputation and referrals roll in.
I always told sales people don’t develop a reputation you could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. No one wins in the long run.
I bet most of those 86 mph pitcher can one dial up to 90 in a showcase but in college they need to throw strikes and make it through 5-6 innings. Doesnt help to throw 91 to the backstop or be gassed after 2 innings.
Btw I read an article that it is good for injury prevention in mlb if you sit 3-4 mph under your max (only dial it up a couple times a game in a tight spot) and not throw within 1-2 mph of your max all the time.
For example verlander sits like 93-94 but can throw 98 he has to. Of course it helps if your max is a hundo, if you max at 87 and you cruise 84 you might not be very effective.
Did anyone else notice that a LHP that Creighton brought in against UCLA the other night had a max velo of 78 during the game? I dont know if ESPN gun was off but they did mention he was only throwing sliders and breaking balls, but that still seems very low. Of course he only lasted 12 pitches and was hit pretty hard. Just thought it was really an outlier with all the upper 80 - low 90 readings in the various games.
I watched a lot of those regional games. I thought the velo was on par with what I have seen in the past.
I attended D3 regional a couple of weekends ago. On Friday a kid throwing 80 with great command threw a great game to upset a top ranked team. Unbelievably, he started again on Sunday. Whether I agree or not (not) I’m sure the strategy was to go as far as possible due to lack of depth on the pitching staff.
Had I been a college kid playing I could have used one of my old favorite rags on pitchers. “ Wipe the damn ball off. Flies are landing on it on the way to the plate.” The kid was fatigued. He had to be 70-75. Let’s just say on Sunday he ruined his weekend stat line.
The yearly tradition of exposing the snooty baseball crowd. The whole "everyone throws 95" thing is a joke. 50/50 shot they touch 90 in a game; and even the good teams seemingly only have 1 or 2 that can tickle 95. As evidenced by the PG rankings of many top draft picks, none of the colleges nor scouts have a clue what they're doing. Just going off of reputation. The whole youth baseball scene is 90% sizzle 10% steak.
For all the years I’ve been on this board I’ve never seen anyone post every pitcher throws 95. For the most part if a pitcher doesn’t max 90 in a showcase he’s not going D1. Are there some exceptions? Sure. But in mid season form most pitchers on top fifty teams are cruising 90. The post season is not the mid season. Quinnipiac is not a top fifty program.
RJM posted:For all the years I’ve been on this board I’ve never seen anyone post every pitcher throws 95. For the most part if a pitcher doesn’t max 90 in a showcase he’s not going D1. Are there some exceptions? Sure. But in mid season form most pitchers on top fifty teams are cruising 90. The post season is not the mid season. Quinnipiac is not a top fifty program.
I understand the point you're trying to make, but the bolded overstates things.
Jerry Ford -- when he still used to post here -- explained the math pretty well:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...85#47474438380416185
So in any given high school class there are 400 (Jerry's number) or even 500 kids who could touch 90 or higher, and with 300 D1 programs, there are something like 1500 pitchers recruited each year. The majority of pitchers who go D1 do not touch 90 in high school. Close to 90? Sure. Top 50 programs? Sure.
But the majority of kids -- in fact about 70% -- recruited to D1s as pitchers have no documented 90 mph velo in high school. Of course, if you ask their dads . . . 
We are talking about the CWS here. All these teams have many, many kids throwing 90-100.
My kid went to an (lesser) SEC team camp very late in the year and there were 12 kids that threw 90+ in that one small camp. My son's mid D1 team had 6 kids throwing 90-96.