2020, I agree with you regarding freshman ball. Even in schools with strong varsity programs, there are 4-5 kids on a freshman team who are simply not ballplayers (their parents think otherwise). Of the remaining 10-12 kids, only 4-5 will ascend to the varsity squad and only 1-2 of those will be an every-inning, impact player. Some schools that are heavy in talent on the varsity team will have guys sitting on the bench who would be starters at probably a lot of schools. Transferring to be in a program where you will get playing time is always an option, but that comes at a heavy price (socially and academically) for the student. My son may not even see the field as a starter until his senior year, he knows that but is not going to take the path of least resistance by transferring to a different program with less competition. I appreciate that he has the desire to compete like he does, and hope that if someone else is getting the start or playing time over him that he uses it as fuel to work harder (he is internally motivated anyway). So even though he is making the cut, these kind of players are also dealing with reality. Making the cut isn't always a bed of roses.
Interesting thread.
The old-style of posting a list on a door (which is how it was done when I was in high school) had the downside of kids who are cut having to see others (many of who were not cut) at the same time they learn the news that they didn't make it. That accentuates the emotional impact. What about just posting it online (could be a password-protected site, so only those involved in the program can see)? That way the kid who is cut can learn the news in private if he so chooses, sort of like the student elections in smokeeminside's example.
When my son tried out for a travel team at the start of 9th grade, there were about 80 incoming freshmen trying out. And, unlike a high school team tryout, all but a couple of those kids were decent at baseball -- that is, they are now playing for their high schools. The team simply posted the roster online of the kids who made it. I realize it is a little different at a high school, where everyone goes to school together, but the online approach provides the opportunity to learn the news in private. All the horror stories in this thread involve, for the most part, the public nature of the delivery of the news.
And you are correct San Diego. It's all relative. I am not going to play the false humility card here, there is zero chance my son would be cut from any freshman team probably anywhere. JV as a freshman is about as certain as can be and varsity is an outside chance. But not the 5% variety maybe more like 25%. Now if he went to the school we are distrected for it would 100% chance to start on varsity as a freshman. But what does it mean? Nothing. One kid playing on a freshman team at a big time program could easily be better than a kid who starts varsity at a weak program. The odd situation for my son is he could theoretically make varsity as a freshman and never become a varsity starter ever. This freshman class is unlike any I have ever seen as a coach or parent. We were undefeated in football and several of them also suited for varsity games. And I just keep chuckling and saying wait til baseball. I think two or three may be brought to varsity as freshmen. But there are 7 or 8 who are very close in ability. By my sons junior year we will definitely have college bound players sitting the bench - unless of course a couple get frustrated and leave. Quite possibly could have 5 or 6 freshmen throwing 80+. Around here 80+ is a varsity pitcher. Of course since we have three varsity guys already upper 80's and one of our frosh is also upper 80's... most of the freshman pitchers will remain JV. Going to be a fun ride.
As for kids being humiliated... is it humiliating to sit the bench the whole game in fromt of a packed gym? Is it humiliating to not be a starter? To not be brought up to varsity as a sophomore? Where does it end? Do we have to have a puppy day for every one of these situations? You're cut. Nothing personal just not good enough. Now move along with your life.
CaCO3Girl posted:Cabbage....a parent calling a coach on Christmas Eve is wrong in my opinion, unless they are wishing you a merry Christmas with your family.
I hear ya, but that goes back to the "no right time" thing... couldn't blame him since I had just done cuts two days prior. Every conceivable timing option had serious pitfalls. i.e. - before Christmas can be a big bummer. After Christmas can make for an even lousier Christmas if he gets a bunch of baseball gear and then gets cut right after break. And, the kid could have been doing a lot of other things like snowboarding or vacationing instead of staying around for my voluntaries, only to get the bad news later.
2020dad posted:....But most cuts of course are at the freshman level. Most (I know there is some difference in areas) freshman who get cut are bad at baseball. It mystifies me how they could need an explanation.... You want to not be cut? Work harder. You choose not to? Don't expect me to feel sorry for you.
We have to remember that the natural instinct to see the best in our own kids is very strong. So is our desire to see our own kids succeed and be happy. This becomes magnified when they are in a competitive environment like sports, or in a relationship, hurt, sick or otherwise susceptible.
You said in another recent thread... "I pace and go far away when he pitches. Funny thing is he had such a great year last year I started to relax and stay with everybody else". How would you have felt if he had struggled badly most of his outings last year?
Some do work hard but just don't have the talent, or just haven't had enough time around the game. Some have never been taught that they can work harder or specifically what to work hard at.
Yeah, you are right that most freshmen getting cut are bad at baseball, at least at that point in time as compared to others in that particular group. And, often, on the surface, it should seem obvious... until you remember that each of them is someone's own kid.
Alright, I admit, I do like puppies 
We have 23 signed up. We're going to keep a squad of 15 max. 8 position players, 4 pitchers/position, another catcher, and if needed 1-2 backups who could keep score would be ideal. Some of the better players (maybe the best) are going to be playing volleyball at the same time. I'd cut those guys first if they don't commit to showing up to practice at least half of the week.
Cabbage once again we find common ground - I love puppies!! Just a half hour ago during my free period I sent my son about six screenshots of a side by side analysis I did on hudl technique. All the drawing tools and messages to go with. Mechanics are in serious need of repair. So you do raise a good point, what if he didn't have a dad who was a hs pitching coach and is a student of the game? What if he really just had no idea what to do and no resources to find out. I guess you can still work out physically but touché to you for raising a valid point that it's harder for some kids than others to 'work hard'.
How would I have felt if he struggled most of his outings? Like we just need to get back to work! Although I would stay away from other parents - no need to start a fight! I get your point though. Walk a mile and all. But at some point don't you have to say "son this may not be for you" if he keeps struggling? He may or may not play basketball next year. As you look down the line he is probably not an impact varsity player jr and sr year. That time will probably be better spent gearing up for baseball. Now I guess if basketball were the dream he would have to start putting in hours every day. But to not put in the work, go out jr year, make the coach cut you or sit you permanently... that's on you not the coach. Some self realization would help. Though he could definitely play JV soph season I think he will probably hang up the sneakers. It's his time. For some that time is after jr high. For others it's even sooner. now baseball he will no doubt play til nobody wants him to anymore. That day too will come. It will be sad. But he will live. Maybe I will buy him a puppy!
cabbagedad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Cabbage....a parent calling a coach on Christmas Eve is wrong in my opinion, unless they are wishing you a merry Christmas with your family.
I hear ya, but that goes back to the "no right time" thing... couldn't blame him since I had just done cuts two days prior. Every conceivable timing option had serious pitfalls. i.e. - before Christmas can be a big bummer. After Christmas can make for an even lousier Christmas if he gets a bunch of baseball gear and then gets cut right after break. And, the kid could have been doing a lot of other things like snowboarding or vacationing instead of staying around for my voluntaries, only to get the bad news later.
We had a parent meeting for anyone who had a kid trying out for the baseball team. The coach had several topics to cover from here is where you buy the high school baseball shirts/hats, here is our field cleanup day, here are our volunteer days with the miracle network...etc. After EVERY SINGLE slide was a slide that said "Your son's participation in these events in no way means he made the team."
2020dad posted:. So I know some will want to say how their school has so much talent that the 50th best kid in the class is still good. I am not buying it. You want to not be cut? Work harder. You choose not to? Don't expect me to feel sorry for you.
When my son was a HS Fr, we had about 25 or so try out. Maybe 18 or so made it. We had students show up who couldn't even play catch with each. Could not throw the ball from 3rd to 1st.
Anyway, a school in our district had approximately 135 show up that same year for approximately 15 spots. And from what I understand, this was not unusual. Our HS was/is in the same classification but we are one of the smallest in the State and they were one of the largest. I would imagine that the super-majority of these boys had played select baseball most of their life and it was the first time that they had ever been cut from baseball. Many of the 120 that were cut could have probably made other HS teams in the area but not this HS team.
threeunassisted posted:Dadof3 posted:What is wrong with a kid learning how to deal with adversity? Getting cut can teach a kid many things: How to deal with adversity/rejection, if they truly love the sport, then maybe they will work harder to make the team the next year, maybe it will push him/her into the sport/activity they were destined for. The kid(s) will need to learn how to deal with rejection at some point, even if it is in front of other kids - does it suck, absolutely, been there done that, was I embarrassed? You bet, but life goes on. Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but how better to learn about life especially when it throws a wrench at you! And yes my heart goes out for those kids, but I too have to be strong, I can't pamper them and say, "It was unfair, you deserve to be on the team."
I don't think there is any good way to handle cutting kids. But no matter which way you do it, someone will complain.
A kid can learn about adversity without being humiliated. And trust me i am about as far from being that parent who pampers and shelters their kids as is possible. My older son is barely speaking to me right now because i gave him a big dose of real world truth (as i see it anyway) In my younger son's case he faced up to the adversity, worked his butt off and two years after being cut from the middle school team personally (from what ive been told) by the Varsity coach over the objection of the MS coach, he was starting on Varsity for that same coach that cut him.
But that long walk of shame was unnecessary. I like the idea of posting the list online, coupled with a 1 on 1 meeting later. Youre right there is no perfect way, being told you arent good enough to be on the team is a harsh message to receive no matter the medium. But there are less bad options.
I worked at a place that went through a big layoff. When they called your number they brought you into an office, did what they had to do, gave you a little speech, and then left and gave you a few minutes to yourself to collect yourself. Not extending that courtesy to children just seems mean.
By the way the coach did cuts the same way the next year, and had a mom freak out when her kid got cut. Like a serious storm the field cursing yelling throwing anything not nailed down conniption. In this day and age having a big group of parents and kids, many of whom are in a state of overcharged emotions, all interacting is a recipe for disaster. I wont lie and say i didnt resent some of the families hugging and congratulating their kids. Luckily, i dont have anger management issues, and just tamped it down. But not everyone is as level headed as i am.
The following year he posted a list on his office door.
Yes. It's not about being cut. Cuts in HS sports are a fact of life. It's how they are handled by the "adults." Yes the kids need to learn how to handle adversity, but they are kids. They are in an inferior position with the "adult." As an adult, if I am being "cut" from my job, and I don't like how it is handled I can call them out on it. If I disagree, I can express my feelings appropriately (or, as I get older and wiser, inappropriately). No reason to humiliate kids.
Regardless of how or when a kid gets cut, the ones that truly have the ability and desire will battle thru and find a way to make it.
My son got cut from a team when he was 8 or 9 years old. When we told him he didn't make the team, he went under his bed and cried himself to sleep. The next day, he got up and went outside and began to throw at his pitch back. Over the next few years we must have gone through about 2 a year because he wore them out. He put in the work and hasn't ever had to worry about being cut again.
True story: (not 100 percent on details but the overall story is true)
High school sophomore. Did not make varsity.
Went hitless as a junior. Decent senior year, and went juco to play ball.
Drafted in the 1st round and played in the majors. Currently the head coach of a major league team that has a World Series championship under his coaching. ( hope I did not botch the details too badly). He really seemed to be a great man and an inspiration.
I totally agree there is no right way to make cuts. Making cuts suck for everyone involved. But there sure are a heck of a lot of ways to do them wrong. As a coach you control whether a kid makes the team or not - yeah there is that nice thought that it's up to the kids to make the decision because they worked hard enough they are so good they cannot be cut. That sounds great on a T-shirt but the reality of the situation is the coach makes the decision. Now some of those decisions are easier than others but some decisions are tough but the coach has to make them.
One thing that a lot of discussions end up having on here are anecdotal stories about your kid and how he either was the best, he worked harder, overcame ______ adversity and many other anecdotal stories. I'm not saying it's wrong and I actually enjoy reading them but as a high school coach your stories don't mean jack squat when it comes to me deciding who's on my team. I know that sounds harsh but it's not meant to be and I would probably want to keep everybody's kid on my team. But here is my point - you guys are great parents and you've done a great job in preparing them for the real world. You've helped them through adversity and taught them the world isn't fair. I wish all parents were like you guys because I have no doubt you're great parents. There's a lot of parents who truly suck at the job and these are the kids we as coaches have to go the extra mile to create a system of cutting kids that factors in dignity and compassion. It's not for your kids at all but it's for the kids with sucky parents.
I have no problem with kids facing adversity or having the conversation letting them know their dream is over because they do need to experience that. But their reaction is out of my hands and for the kids with good parents they will probably be able to handle it. Kids with sucky parents may or may not be able to handle it. If it goes south and they break down crying then the ball is back in my hands in how to handle it. I'm going to handle it with compassion and dignity. There's a lesson to be taught in how to handle adversity and even embarrassment. Kids are not very smart and they are very awkward. They will embarrass themselves plenty of times and they will have to learn to deal with it. I'm not going to add to that and I do not feel I'm making them soft in the way I handle things. I'm doing my job as a teacher and coach in showing them how to handle these things.
I still feel that posting a list no matter how you do it - on a door, website, etc... - is chicken****. Yeah if it's online it could be in the privacy of their home but what have you done to help teach that kid? I don't care if you put a little blurb in there that says "if you have any questions or explanations why you did not make the team come see me"because they ARE NOT going to come and see you. You are not teaching them anything by posting a list. I've cut kids who had superior talent but the extra baggage they brought just wasn't worth it. They had issues with attitude, grades, attendance, behavior, parents behavior or whatever. It doesn't matter how good they are because they are punks. You post a list then how does that kid know the extra stuff is what got him cut? Hopefully, there have been many conversations beforehand about expectations of personal conduct ahead of time but sometimes you cannot. I'm going to look that kid in the eye and tell him yes he has great talent but because of ______ he's not worth the aggravation to keep. Now it's up to him to decide to do something about it and earn his way on the team or be a victim and blame me. I could care less if he blames me but I will do my job and show / explain how he can improve face to face and look him in the eye. That used to count for something but somewhere along the way we allowed not wanting to hurt their feelings dictate how we handle cuts. I can't control if they get their feelings hurt but I can control everything after that to help them become a better person IF they listen.
Since my HS information source is my freshman son in HS, I'm usually the last to know how things work. But I did get this from him last night.
There is a baseball class at school, several of them. One freshman, one or two others (not sure how many). At the end of the first semester, the coach gave each kid in the classes a piece of paper that had what team, if any, he most likely saw them on for the Spring season. The paper would say "Varsity / JV", "JV / Cut", "Freshman / Cut", etc. A couple kids in the class just had "Cut". He talked to all the kids individually. All kids were welcomed to tryouts.
I thought that was a pretty good way to set expectations with the kids.
Go44dad posted:Since my HS information source is my freshman son in HS, I'm usually the last to know how things work. But I did get this from him last night.
There is a baseball class at school, several of them. One freshman, one or two others (not sure how many). At the end of the first semester, the coach gave each kid in the classes a piece of paper that had what team, if any, he most likely saw them on for the Spring season. The paper would say "Varsity / JV", "JV / Cut", "Freshman / Cut", etc. A couple kids in the class just had "Cut". He talked to all the kids individually. All kids were welcomed to tryouts.
I thought that was a pretty good way to set expectations with the kids.
We all know most coaches have their team selected prior to the "tryouts" but I would hope they would be a little less obvious about it. I get it, it gives cut and "bubble" kids a chance to pursue other interests.
Go44dad posted:Since my HS information source is my freshman son in HS, I'm usually the last to know how things work. But I did get this from him last night.
There is a baseball class at school, several of them. One freshman, one or two others (not sure how many). At the end of the first semester, the coach gave each kid in the classes a piece of paper that had what team, if any, he most likely saw them on for the Spring season. The paper would say "Varsity / JV", "JV / Cut", "Freshman / Cut", etc. A couple kids in the class just had "Cut". He talked to all the kids individually. All kids were welcomed to tryouts.
I thought that was a pretty good way to set expectations with the kids.
So for the kids who are given an outright cut on the piece of paper does that mean they have failed that class??? Obviously I know they didn't but does create a nice what if situation and I could see this working.
coach2709 posted:Go44dad posted:Since my HS information source is my freshman son in HS, I'm usually the last to know how things work. But I did get this from him last night.
There is a baseball class at school, several of them. One freshman, one or two others (not sure how many). At the end of the first semester, the coach gave each kid in the classes a piece of paper that had what team, if any, he most likely saw them on for the Spring season. The paper would say "Varsity / JV", "JV / Cut", "Freshman / Cut", etc. A couple kids in the class just had "Cut". He talked to all the kids individually. All kids were welcomed to tryouts.
I thought that was a pretty good way to set expectations with the kids.
So for the kids who are given an outright cut on the piece of paper does that mean they have failed that class??? Obviously I know they didn't but does create a nice what if situation and I could see this working.
Grade is just participation. It's PE class. I think it does a really good job of letting a kid know where he stands. Also, if on a bubble for a team, maybe they spend the winter break and January working on their game/condition.
How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
CaCO3Girl posted:We had a parent meeting for anyone who had a kid trying out for the baseball team. The coach had several topics to cover from here is where you buy the high school baseball shirts/hats, here is our field cleanup day, here are our volunteer days with the miracle network...etc. After EVERY SINGLE slide was a slide that said "Your son's participation in these events in no way means he made the team."
I think this is an issue. Our HS program manages multiple fundraisers, volunteer days, and "required donation" packs for team practice gear BEFORE cuts are ever made. As the parent of a "bubble" kid it's frustrating cutting checks to a program that you don't know your kid is going to be a part of. It's rumored that a big reason we run large rosters is to maintain a larger donation pool for the program. The program does cut but the Freshman, JV, and Varsity rosters run into the 20's.
It's unfortunate that school economics are at a point that such a large percentage of sports funding comes from donations. The financial demographics of the school plays such a larger part in the quality of fields and equipment. It also blurs the line of parental involvement in coaching decisions. Parents are spending 100's to 1000's of dollars for public school sports programs.
25 years ago parents showed up on game day (maybe). For a majority of kids, it was just another extra curricular activity that was offered. If you didn't make a team you found another activity to participate (hopefully it was positive). Sure getting cut is NEVER a fun experience, but it's not the end of the world. Growing up it was always simply a posted roster on a door or window.
coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
real green posted:CaCO3Girl posted:We had a parent meeting for anyone who had a kid trying out for the baseball team. The coach had several topics to cover from here is where you buy the high school baseball shirts/hats, here is our field cleanup day, here are our volunteer days with the miracle network...etc. After EVERY SINGLE slide was a slide that said "Your son's participation in these events in no way means he made the team."
I think this is an issue. Our HS program manages multiple fundraisers, volunteer days, and "required donation" packs for team practice gear BEFORE cuts are ever made. As the parent of a "bubble" kid it's frustrating cutting checks to a program that you don't know your kid is going to be a part of. It's rumored that a big reason we run large rosters is to maintain a larger donation pool for the program. The program does cut but the Freshman, JV, and Varsity rosters run into the 20's.
It's unfortunate that school economics are at a point that such a large percentage of sports funding comes from donations. The financial demographics of the school plays such a larger part in the quality of fields and equipment. It also blurs the line of parental involvement in coaching decisions. Parents are spending 100's to 1000's of dollars for public school sports programs.
25 years ago parents showed up on game day (maybe). For a majority of kids, it was just another extra curricular activity that was offered. If you didn't make a team you found another activity to participate (hopefully it was positive). Sure getting cut is NEVER a fun experience, but it's not the end of the world. Growing up it was always simply a posted roster on a door or window.
Every time I see these type of posts, Im glad we are in a well funded school district. In addition we are lucky that the booster clubs are also well funded. Normally we have one fundraiser a year and it is held immediately after cuts. Our coach hates fundraisers as much as the parents do. Its a very simple fundraiser and its fairly cheap to buy your way out of it.
Due to a special event happening in our town this year we had the opportunity to run an additional fundraiser. Basically the event needed additional parking and our school was in the perfect spot to provide it. Each co-curricular activity was given the opportunity to participate and those that did will split the proceeds amongst them. Almost all the coaches, of cut sports, were very careful to only include the pervious years V athletes that were shoe-ins for the team. Those that did invite prior year JV or Soph players were careful to only bring in those who had a greater then average chance of making the V roster.
threeunassisted posted:By the way the coach did cuts the same way the next year, and had a mom freak out when her kid got cut. Like a serious storm the field cursing yelling throwing anything not nailed down conniption. In this day and age having a big group of parents and kids, many of whom are in a state of overcharged emotions, all interacting is a recipe for disaster.
Funny. A mom did similar when her daughter was cut from the softball team after previously being a varsity player. Softball and baseball fields are side by side, so baseball HC (as well as anyone within 3 adjoining counties) heard and witnessed the shock and awe this mom gave to the softball coach.
Fast forward two years later, when her son was a tweaner to make the HS JV team, coach cut the kid. His logic was that until he was a no doubter to not be cut in the future, he wouldn't give the mom another opportunity to show her arse again.
joes87 posted:real green posted:CaCO3Girl posted:We had a parent meeting for anyone who had a kid trying out for the baseball team. The coach had several topics to cover from here is where you buy the high school baseball shirts/hats, here is our field cleanup day, here are our volunteer days with the miracle network...etc. After EVERY SINGLE slide was a slide that said "Your son's participation in these events in no way means he made the team."
I think this is an issue. Our HS program manages multiple fundraisers, volunteer days, and "required donation" packs for team practice gear BEFORE cuts are ever made. As the parent of a "bubble" kid it's frustrating cutting checks to a program that you don't know your kid is going to be a part of. It's rumored that a big reason we run large rosters is to maintain a larger donation pool for the program. The program does cut but the Freshman, JV, and Varsity rosters run into the 20's.
It's unfortunate that school economics are at a point that such a large percentage of sports funding comes from donations. The financial demographics of the school plays such a larger part in the quality of fields and equipment. It also blurs the line of parental involvement in coaching decisions. Parents are spending 100's to 1000's of dollars for public school sports programs.
25 years ago parents showed up on game day (maybe). For a majority of kids, it was just another extra curricular activity that was offered. If you didn't make a team you found another activity to participate (hopefully it was positive). Sure getting cut is NEVER a fun experience, but it's not the end of the world. Growing up it was always simply a posted roster on a door or window.
Every time I see these type of posts, Im glad we are in a well funded school district. In addition we are lucky that the booster clubs are also well funded. Normally we have one fundraiser a year and it is held immediately after cuts. Our coach hates fundraisers as much as the parents do. Its a very simple fundraiser and its fairly cheap to buy your way out of it.
Due to a special event happening in our town this year we had the opportunity to run an additional fundraiser. Basically the event needed additional parking and our school was in the perfect spot to provide it. Each co-curricular activity was given the opportunity to participate and those that did will split the proceeds amongst them. Almost all the coaches, of cut sports, were very careful to only include the pervious years V athletes that were shoe-ins for the team. Those that did invite prior year JV or Soph players were careful to only bring in those who had a greater then average chance of making the V roster.
Our booster club sucks. I don't know if it is the school administration that puts the breaks on fundraising, but they never seem to do as good as neighboring schools. Our baseball team basically does its own fund raising. One "for sale" item in the fall and then an "ask" campaign after cuts. Seems to work pretty good as players get everything including shoes. Personally I'd rather they spent the money on coaching, training, and a spring trip.
Go44dad posted:Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
Ours is exactly the same as this with no switching and not sure it makes sense. The rationale was that they didn't want the counselors to have to alter so many schedules midterm. There was some waffling about if they get cut will they get moved out of the baseball class into a regular PE. I don't know the answer to that yet. I think a significant number of the baseball kids played football and there were less cuts in the first semester as the coach isn't sure the football players will come out for baseball. I think the kids in football over the Fall may get more out of those workouts than being in the baseball class as they got preferential use of facilities, weight room etc.
Coach2709 - We have 2000 kids give or take. In the fall we have tryouts to be in the class. I tell the counselors that any kid who wants to be in the class can sign up for it. We have paperwork day on Monday, tryout Tues-Thurs, cuts on Friday. We have 2 coaches in the one athletic period, so we keep it around 35 kids for the fall. This is my 5th year, and this number or a little less has been found to be optimal for what we do in the offseason.
2nd semester we have tryouts at the end of January. All tryouts are after school. Most kids who make the team won't be moved into the period simply based on numbers. They'll just come after school.
At our school I get to move kids I want to from football into baseball at semester. I typically on move Varsity level kids in, or kids who have a shot at pushing for a varsity spot this year. Our football coach is great with this, as it's ultimately his call.
joes87 posted:real green posted:CaCO3Girl posted:We had a parent meeting for anyone who had a kid trying out for the baseball team. The coach had several topics to cover from here is where you buy the high school baseball shirts/hats, here is our field cleanup day, here are our volunteer days with the miracle network...etc. After EVERY SINGLE slide was a slide that said "Your son's participation in these events in no way means he made the team."
I think this is an issue. Our HS program manages multiple fundraisers, volunteer days, and "required donation" packs for team practice gear BEFORE cuts are ever made. As the parent of a "bubble" kid it's frustrating cutting checks to a program that you don't know your kid is going to be a part of. It's rumored that a big reason we run large rosters is to maintain a larger donation pool for the program. The program does cut but the Freshman, JV, and Varsity rosters run into the 20's.
It's unfortunate that school economics are at a point that such a large percentage of sports funding comes from donations. The financial demographics of the school plays such a larger part in the quality of fields and equipment. It also blurs the line of parental involvement in coaching decisions. Parents are spending 100's to 1000's of dollars for public school sports programs.
25 years ago parents showed up on game day (maybe). For a majority of kids, it was just another extra curricular activity that was offered. If you didn't make a team you found another activity to participate (hopefully it was positive). Sure getting cut is NEVER a fun experience, but it's not the end of the world. Growing up it was always simply a posted roster on a door or window.
Every time I see these type of posts, Im glad we are in a well funded school district. In addition we are lucky that the booster clubs are also well funded. Normally we have one fundraiser a year and it is held immediately after cuts. Our coach hates fundraisers as much as the parents do. Its a very simple fundraiser and its fairly cheap to buy your way out of it.
Due to a special event happening in our town this year we had the opportunity to run an additional fundraiser. Basically the event needed additional parking and our school was in the perfect spot to provide it. Each co-curricular activity was given the opportunity to participate and those that did will split the proceeds amongst them. Almost all the coaches, of cut sports, were very careful to only include the pervious years V athletes that were shoe-ins for the team. Those that did invite prior year JV or Soph players were careful to only bring in those who had a greater then average chance of making the V roster.
That's the crazy part. The school is very well funded. Peoples needs and wants don't always fall in the same bucket. Just an example, by the end of the season Varsity had FIVE different uniforms.
Go44dad posted:Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
ironhorse posted:Coach2709 - We have 2000 kids give or take. In the fall we have tryouts to be in the class. I tell the counselors that any kid who wants to be in the class can sign up for it. We have paperwork day on Monday, tryout Tues-Thurs, cuts on Friday. We have 2 coaches in the one athletic period, so we keep it around 35 kids for the fall. This is my 5th year, and this number or a little less has been found to be optimal for what we do in the offseason.
2nd semester we have tryouts at the end of January. All tryouts are after school. Most kids who make the team won't be moved into the period simply based on numbers. They'll just come after school.
At our school I get to move kids I want to from football into baseball at semester. I typically on move Varsity level kids in, or kids who have a shot at pushing for a varsity spot this year. Our football coach is great with this, as it's ultimately his call.
Thanks guys and I feel I have the overall gist of how this is done and it's very intriguing. But I can see where it could potentially be a nightmare for counselors if there's not good communication. Same could be said if coaches don't communicate either. I think this is one of those things that I would have to be part of to truly understand it but I really appreciate you guys taking the time to explain it. It's very interesting.
As to the fundraiser aspect here is what I do (and yes I hate doing it as well). I tell my guys that once they make the team they are members for one year until the next year. So obviously that includes practice, games, workouts etc... But it also includes fundraising so in that one year they are expected to participate in fundraising. Now if poor play or poor attitude can lead to them being cut next year then so can participating in fundraising. You blow off fundraising then you hurt your chances to make the team. If you have marginal talent but work your rearend off in fundraising it could help you make the team. But in no way shape form or fashion does fundraising factor into playing time. That is dependent on practice, playing in games, attitude - the normal stuff. Incoming players like Freshmen are welcome to participate in fundraisers but does not guarantee them to NOT get cut. It may help them make the team but does not guarantee them NOT getting cut
safeathome posted:Go44dad posted:Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
Ours is exactly the same as this with no switching and not sure it makes sense. The rationale was that they didn't want the counselors to have to alter so many schedules midterm. There was some waffling about if they get cut will they get moved out of the baseball class into a regular PE. I don't know the answer to that yet. I think a significant number of the baseball kids played football and there were less cuts in the first semester as the coach isn't sure the football players will come out for baseball. I think the kids in football over the Fall may get more out of those workouts than being in the baseball class as they got preferential use of facilities, weight room etc.
Sorry if this offends anyone, but this sounds CRAZY!!! Our schools offers a couple of PE classes — games (stuff you can play later on your own like tennis and golf). This class meets every day for one semester. The other is athlete PE, which is taught by the football coach, meets every other day all year, and involves mostly weight lifting. Kids and their parents decide which to sign up for. My son is taking games because he prefers a more baseball centric workout than what the football coach provides.
Can't imagine all this swapping around. Of course, we are in a high school of 1,100 kids, with a no cut policy. Interesting to see how the rest of the world works.
coach2709 posted:Go44dad posted:Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
ironhorse posted:Coach2709 - We have 2000 kids give or take. In the fall we have tryouts to be in the class. I tell the counselors that any kid who wants to be in the class can sign up for it. We have paperwork day on Monday, tryout Tues-Thurs, cuts on Friday. We have 2 coaches in the one athletic period, so we keep it around 35 kids for the fall. This is my 5th year, and this number or a little less has been found to be optimal for what we do in the offseason.
2nd semester we have tryouts at the end of January. All tryouts are after school. Most kids who make the team won't be moved into the period simply based on numbers. They'll just come after school.
At our school I get to move kids I want to from football into baseball at semester. I typically on move Varsity level kids in, or kids who have a shot at pushing for a varsity spot this year. Our football coach is great with this, as it's ultimately his call.
You blow off fundraising then you hurt your chances to make the team. If you have marginal talent but work your rearend off in fundraising it could help you make the team.
What if you are a top 5 player and blow off fundraising? How much money you raise while playing at a public school "should" never be equated in the decision of making a team.
real green posted:coach2709 posted:Go44dad posted:Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
ironhorse posted:Coach2709 - We have 2000 kids give or take. In the fall we have tryouts to be in the class. I tell the counselors that any kid who wants to be in the class can sign up for it. We have paperwork day on Monday, tryout Tues-Thurs, cuts on Friday. We have 2 coaches in the one athletic period, so we keep it around 35 kids for the fall. This is my 5th year, and this number or a little less has been found to be optimal for what we do in the offseason.
2nd semester we have tryouts at the end of January. All tryouts are after school. Most kids who make the team won't be moved into the period simply based on numbers. They'll just come after school.
At our school I get to move kids I want to from football into baseball at semester. I typically on move Varsity level kids in, or kids who have a shot at pushing for a varsity spot this year. Our football coach is great with this, as it's ultimately his call.
You blow off fundraising then you hurt your chances to make the team. If you have marginal talent but work your rearend off in fundraising it could help you make the team.
What if you are a top 5 player and blow off fundraising? How much money you raise while playing at a public school "should" never be equated in the decision of making a team.
Well if he's blowing off fundraising then he's probably an attitude case and needs to be taught a lesson. Why is it fair for little Johnny who never plays to work his tail off to raise all this money while Steve the Stud just coasts? You have to have standards and if tax money FULLY funded sports then maybe there's an argument that a public school shouldn't equate fundraising to making a team but the real world isn't like that. The vast majority of money that goes into sports is raised from gates, concessions and fundraising. Because of that you have to have a standard of expectation to pull your weight in order to participate. If you don't have that standard eventually nobody is going to show up and you lose sports. Plus, I never said if they blow off fundraising they are automatically cut but it can play a factor. I have that 5 star stud not showing up then he and I are going to have a discussion about appearances to college coaches and pro scouts about how he's not a team player. Before anyone says that won't factor in it does because they will ask me how does he fit in with his team and others. I would not be doing my job and losing my credibility if I didn't bring up blowing off fundraisers.
Well if he's blowing off fundraising then he's probably an attitude case and needs to be taught a lesson. Why is it fair for little Johnny who never plays to work his tail off to raise all this money while Steve the Stud just coasts? You have to have standards and if tax money FULLY funded sports then maybe there's an argument that a public school shouldn't equate fundraising to making a team but the real world isn't like that. The vast majority of money that goes into sports is raised from gates, concessions and fundraising. Because of that you have to have a standard of expectation to pull your weight in order to participate. If you don't have that standard eventually nobody is going to show up and you lose sports. Plus, I never said if they blow off fundraising they are automatically cut but it can play a factor. I have that 5 star stud not showing up then he and I are going to have a discussion about appearances to college coaches and pro scouts about how he's not a team player. Before anyone says that won't factor in it does because they will ask me how does he fit in with his team and others. I would not be doing my job and losing my credibility if I didn't bring up blowing off fundraisers.
Have you ever had your best players blowing off fundraising. Not just half assing it, but blowing it off altogether. My guess is no as those team leaders understand the benefit.
coach2709 posted:real green posted:coach2709 posted:Go44dad posted:Go44dad posted:coach2709 posted:How does a bigger school handle who gets into the class? Lets say it's a school that will have 2000 total students and you have 50 at tryouts. Are kids who know ahead of time going to try out definitely able to get in the class? PE allows larger numbers into their classes but it's hard to see 50 kids to one teacher in a baseball class. Like I said I like the idea of this but it's got me curious to the logistics of it.
Let me ask my kid, if he's talking to me tonight. He just lost a close basketball game, may not be up to an interview on how things work at school.
OK, after a couple "dunno's" and "whatever's", here is some detail. School is around 2200 students, and in largest classification in Texas. There are five football teams, 2 Fresh, 2 JV's, Varsity. Lots of the baseball kids are in football. Once you are in football "class", they don't let you switch to another sport "class". Kids are in it for the full year.(The kids can play the other sports.)
Also five basketball teams, freshman son stated at the beginning of school that he was going to play baseball and basketball. Not a lot of baseball kids play basketball, maybe 4 or 5. Until the start of basketball season, he went to baseball one day, basketball the next. Once basketball started, he's in the "basketball" class. When baseball starts, he will move to the "baseball" class.
There are two baseball classes. One is for freshman and a couple of the lesser ability sophomores, the other for kids that have been on the baseball team (and are not in the other sports). There were around 20 kids in the freshman class to start the year. Some went to basketball, a couple were told they didn't have a chance to make the baseball team, and moved to some other class. Any kid can get in the freshman baseball class if he talks to the coach at the beginning of the year. I assume there is a "Tennis" class, "Soccer" class, etc. Unless you have been tattooed as a football player, you can move between classes when you finish one sport and start another.
Kids are in the baseball, basketball or football class all year long.
Make sense?
ironhorse posted:Coach2709 - We have 2000 kids give or take. In the fall we have tryouts to be in the class. I tell the counselors that any kid who wants to be in the class can sign up for it. We have paperwork day on Monday, tryout Tues-Thurs, cuts on Friday. We have 2 coaches in the one athletic period, so we keep it around 35 kids for the fall. This is my 5th year, and this number or a little less has been found to be optimal for what we do in the offseason.
2nd semester we have tryouts at the end of January. All tryouts are after school. Most kids who make the team won't be moved into the period simply based on numbers. They'll just come after school.
At our school I get to move kids I want to from football into baseball at semester. I typically on move Varsity level kids in, or kids who have a shot at pushing for a varsity spot this year. Our football coach is great with this, as it's ultimately his call.
You blow off fundraising then you hurt your chances to make the team. If you have marginal talent but work your rearend off in fundraising it could help you make the team.
What if you are a top 5 player and blow off fundraising? How much money you raise while playing at a public school "should" never be equated in the decision of making a team.
Well if he's blowing off fundraising then he's probably an attitude case and needs to be taught a lesson. Why is it fair for little Johnny who never plays to work his tail off to raise all this money while Steve the Stud just coasts? You have to have standards and if tax money FULLY funded sports then maybe there's an argument that a public school shouldn't equate fundraising to making a team but the real world isn't like that. The vast majority of money that goes into sports is raised from gates, concessions and fundraising. Because of that you have to have a standard of expectation to pull your weight in order to participate. If you don't have that standard eventually nobody is going to show up and you lose sports. Plus, I never said if they blow off fundraising they are automatically cut but it can play a factor. I have that 5 star stud not showing up then he and I are going to have a discussion about appearances to college coaches and pro scouts about how he's not a team player. Before anyone says that won't factor in it does because they will ask me how does he fit in with his team and others. I would not be doing my job and losing my credibility if I didn't bring up blowing off fundraisers.
What if half the parents are financially prepared to simply cut a check for their little Johnny's fundraising requirements while the other half have to work their tail off to generate the donations?
Define fully funded? When a program starts asking for WANTS and not needs through "voluntary" fundraising that can influence your standing with the team than in my opinion there is a problem.
A high school team doesn't need to be equipped like a top 10 D1 college. Constantly asking for fundraising and inferring it actually can impact your standing on the roster for program WANTS is nuts.
Now come ask me to help replace 5 yr old uniforms and broken bases than I would be all in to help support the cause and feel it is my sons duty as player to contribute. Ask my son/family to help generate $50k to "upgrade" a perfectly fine outfield fence is fine as well, BUT it shouldn't have a negative impact on my son if he doesn't raise any funds.
That's all I am saying.
Let me say my perspective is a little skewed because I was head coach at a school who did not have a field on campus. We had to use a community field and were not allowed to run a gate. Because little league started up about a 1/3 of the way into my season they had all concessions. My team generated $0 the way other sports did through gate and concessions. The school did not provide any financial support except for pay for umpires and even then I got called into the office because I was playing too many home games. We didn't pay for a bus driver because we couldn't afford it so I drove the bus (going in I already had my CDL). So every single dime we spent had to be through fundraising. If I didn't have the money in my account there was no way I could buy anything. When I first got to that school the booster club was so toxic I disbanded it. They tried to run the team and had ran off the previous 3 coaches. I created a full time JV team that played a full schedule right off the bat whereas before they might have played 4 or 5 JV games with whoever was left over on the bench.
When I got there the uniforms were ancient as was the catcher's gear and most of the equipment. We were seriously behind the times and needed to catch up. We had no money so we went to work me and the players with a few of the parents who weren't idiots but out of the 9 years I was head coach it was all me and the players doing fundraising for 7 of them. My last two years I was there we kinda had a booster club because I was so tired, burned out and fed up with fundraising by that point. Every year we raised around about $5000 just to survive each year buying essentials and taking a spring break trip. I don't believe in generating money for the fancy stuff because the time and effort that goes into raising that money is precious. I will not waste that time and effort on non-essential stuff. My JV team the first few years would play with the kids in different uniforms because we didn't have enough. We looked stupid but I didn't care, the kids didn't care and the parents didn't care because playing the game was more important than looking good. Once we raised enough money for new varsity uniforms we passed the old ones down and it got better. But choosing between new JV uniforms and a box of baseballs is an easy choice.
Unless they were playing another sport every single kid was expected to help participate in fundraisers. Did every single kid participate? Nope and we had discussions. I never told them it may cause them to get cut but I made sure they understood how important our survival was due to raising money. I did lose kids because they didn't want to fundraise and sometimes they were good players but they showed other traits of not being good team mates besides that. I didn't miss them and it didn't hurt my feelings they left because they didn't want to help out. I could have very easily charged a participation fee but I am vehemently opposed to that because you now start eliminating poor kids from playing. Plus, that area was lower middle class and it would have been tough to get everyone to pay it. I believe in if you need it or you want it then you work for it. If you don't work for it then you're not going to benefit from others hard work. Parents did help out but it was hit and miss even when we started the new booster club up. I can't control what parents do because that is out of my realm of power. But I can control what their kid does in terms to being on my baseball team and they will help out. If they want to play baseball they will help out or they don't want to play baseball very bad. I left that school as the all time winningest coach in that school's history and the main reason for that is people bought in to the get the work done in order to be successful.
I'm now the Athletic Director at a school in NC and when I took over four and a half years ago we were spending more than we were generating to the tune of about $40K. We weren't in debt but the admin was having to take money from successful sports (football / basketball and at our school soccer) to cover spending in other sports. It was ridiculous and there were some glaringly obvious ways to cut that spending but there were other things that I had to look deeper for but I found them. To help solve the problem and start banking money from gates I put in a policy for two years of unless it's absolutely necessary you weren't getting it. If you wanted something that wasn't necessary then you better fundraise for it or it's not getting done. Not a popular stance but it had to be done. Our teams - even the successful ones - fell under this policy because we put all money into general athletics school account then we created a budget for each sport to follow. All our teams started fundraising. Our school booster club was on life support and barely hanging on. Those first few years as AD were seriously bleak but we have turned things around. Last year we changed our policy on budgeting to that every sport who has gates gets to keep their gate money instead of going into general athletics. I create a budget where 80% of the previous years gate money is budgeted for them to spend. The left over 20% is left as a savings account to build up for things like uniform purchases which can build up if they don't spend all of their 80%. Basically it puts the responsibility of being fiscally responsible on the coach.
So my perspective is different than most. In my situations fundraising wasn't about buying stuff that's extra - it was about survival. We survived and flourished because everyone helped out. If your situation is different than mine then consider yourself lucky.
"The left over 20% is left as a savings account to build up for things like uniform purchases which can build up if they don't spend all of their 80%."
Not too side track this too much, but how many HS coaches/ADs on here have had offers of sponsorship by the larger athletic companies? Its more of a curiosity thing. Two years ago our HS was offered a sponsorship by one of the larger athletic clothes/shoe manufactures. They offered 40% off our uni costs (which run about $15,000 a year across all sports), $2,400 a year stipend to the athletic programs, 35% off on shoes for the athletes, a 15% rebate back to the school for any student purchases through the portal and a few more things.
In the end the school board turned it down as there were a few issues. First they required all athletes to be "branded head to toe" with the companies equipment. Which would have meant the district needed to provide shoes for the kids, or force them to purchase a certain brand. Outside of V football fields and baseball fields all the other fields are owned and maintained by the park district and the deal required branding at all fields, and finally it was offered to one of the two schools in our district with the ability, "to continue discussion regarding the other HS". Our district is big on equity between the two HS and insisted that the deal include both schools. Both schools are very good academically and athletically but one school seems to be a little more high profile in the athletic world around here.
The reality is that in these days of tight school budgets, sports need to fund themselves. IMO it's only a mater of time be they are cut to keep the money in the classroom. Especially a sport like baseball which has many, many alternative options outside of school.
joes87 posted:"The left over 20% is left as a savings account to build up for things like uniform purchases which can build up if they don't spend all of their 80%."
Not too side track this too much, but how many HS coaches/ADs on here have had offers of sponsorship by the larger athletic companies? Its more of a curiosity thing. Two years ago our HS was offered a sponsorship by one of the larger athletic clothes/shoe manufactures. They offered 40% off our uni costs (which run about $15,000 a year across all sports), $2,400 a year stipend to the athletic programs, 35% off on shoes for the athletes, a 15% rebate back to the school for any student purchases through the portal and a few more things.
In the end the school board turned it down as there were a few issues. First they required all athletes to be "branded head to toe" with the companies equipment. Which would have meant the district needed to provide shoes for the kids, or force them to purchase a certain brand. Outside of V football fields and baseball fields all the other fields are owned and maintained by the park district and the deal required branding at all fields, and finally it was offered to one of the two schools in our district with the ability, "to continue discussion regarding the other HS". Our district is big on equity between the two HS and insisted that the deal include both schools. Both schools are very good academically and athletically but one school seems to be a little more high profile in the athletic world around here.
Was it the actual athletic company or a distributor? I've contacted several of the big name companies to ask about that because I have no problem pasting their brand everywhere if it helps financially. But they all said they do not do this at the high school level but a distributor could work out a deal like that although it cuts into their profit. I knew a guy on the other side of the state who had something similar to that with a distributor but where I was I couldn't find anybody willing to do it.
But that was a long time ago and things change. Plus, we were a no name average high school which wouldn't have increased the companies reach any more than a commercial on ESPN would whereas a bigger high school that does play on ESPN might get that deal.
Direct from the manufacture offered in 2015. It was not Nike, but the other big one...
I guess I could say it was Under Amour as it made it to the school board vote and the terms of the deal is public record at this point.
Reebok? :-)
real green posted:What if half the parents are financially prepared to simply cut a check for their little Johnny's fundraising requirements while the other half have to work their tail off to generate the donations?
It has to be hard to be a coach balancing all of this, you pretty much need to understand each kids home situation to make accurate decisions about character. I think the above (have/have nots) is the issue around here, though I definitely see the importance to fundraising. The other point made earlier that I find some issue with is the "bubble" kids are required to participate in these fundraisers with the possibility of making the team - it puts a lot of pressure on the parents to do extra work.
A good number of the parents here can cut a check for sponsorship as a tax write off, buy 3-4 golf tournament tickets to give away, etc. While the others make $50 each spending 8 hours on a bake sale. A few of the parents with loose hours, work from home jobs, and without additional young kids can spend their time in concessions, run the boosters - donating the parents' time. I have to hope mine is not on the bubble, because I unfortunately don't have the resources or time to donate. Some of the bad attitude and feeling a player is not doing their fair share may be that they don't have the ability to sell golf tournament tickets at over $100 each, while watching Johnny sell 5-10 of them to a single source. I think at least a few of these fundraising events should require a bit more sweat equity on the player's part.