One draft is not indicative of any kind of change. Of the 8 players that were allegedly drafted as 2 way players, let’s see how many are playing both ways in a year, in 2 years, in 3 years. It won’t be many. Let’s see how many of those 8 make it all the way to the big leagues as a 2 way player. My prediction - maybe 1 but probably none. The facts are still on the side of people with the most experience around the game. Almost all HS pitchers think they are 2 way players. And they are. In HS. The college baseball world is different and it isn’t going to change because some HS parents and players want to push the 2 way issue. Right now very, very few HS players have much bargaining power but for some reason they don’t realize it until they have already stumbled. Only the very elite players are unaffected by current market conditions. Everyone else better understand the situation that college baseball is in. Sometimes everyone can see the train wreck coming except for the guy driving the train.
@adbono posted:One draft is not indicative of any kind of change. Of the 8 players that were allegedly drafted as 2 way players, let’s see how many are playing both ways in a year, in 2 years, in 3 years. It won’t be many. Let’s see how many of those 8 make it all the way to the big leagues as a 2 way player. My prediction - maybe 1 but probably none. The facts are still on the side of people with the most experience around the game. Almost all HS pitchers think they are 2 way players. And they are. In HS. The college baseball world is different and it isn’t going to change because some HS parents and players want to push the 2 way issue. Right now very, very few HS players have much bargaining power but for some reason they don’t realize it until they have already stumbled. Only the very elite players are unaffected by current market conditions. Everyone else better understand the situation that college baseball is in. Sometimes everyone can see the train wreck coming except for the guy driving the train.
So, in summary
Don't believe the writer for mlb.com, believe me! Because I know more than the MLB!
And ignore that 6 out of 8 two-way draftees were from college. Because I know more than the MLB!
And ignore the $millions that the Giants, Mets, Royals, Padres, Yankees, Reds, Marlins and Dodgers spent on these 8 players. Because I know more than the MLB!
And move the goal posts! And double down on the insults! Because I know more than the MLB!
@DD 2024 posted:Your sons age
you don't see it much in college or pro
many are just further along their journey
Just be realistic
Sorry you've held this for so long
Your condescension and arrogance are so hard-wired @baseballhs that you are blind to them.
Deny and claim forgetfulness rather than admit you were wrong about a topic where you think you're an expert, but you are clearly not. Dunning-Kruger at its finest.
I don't have a horse in this race, but, dude.......everyone gets into with everyone on here at times , and then they move on. I didn't go back and read any of your posts but I hope if it was about you're kid it worked out for the best...
@DD 2024 posted:Dissonance is a helluva drug
sheepishly goes to google to find out what dissonance is and if it is street legal..................
@DD 2024 posted:So, in summary
Don't believe the writer for mlb.com, believe me! Because I know more than the MLB!
And ignore that 6 out of 8 two-way draftees were from college. Because I know more than the MLB!
And ignore the $millions that the Giants, Mets, Royals, Padres, Yankees and Reds spent on these 8 players. Because I know more than the MLB!
And move the goal posts! And double down on the insults! Because I know more than the MLB!
That is a uniquely deranged interpretation of what I said.
@adbono posted:That is a uniquely deranged interpretation of what I said.
Your understanding of baseball is frozen in time. A complete shibboleth.
@nycdad posted:I don't have a horse in this race, but, dude.......everyone gets into with everyone on here at times , and then they move on. I didn't go back and read any of your posts but I hope if it was about you're kid it worked out for the best...
My son is not a two way player. I don’t have the horse in this race that everyone wrongly assumes I have.
I stated a truth - a truth that the old-time know-it-alls on here are having a hard time accepting because it’s new and incongruent with their atrophied view of the game.
Go back and read the thread … guys asked for this topic to be frozen and revisited “in 3-4 years”. It only took 2 years for their ignorance to be exposed. And now they are doubling down on the insults, dissonantly moving the goalposts, attempting to minimize their past misstatements, and trying to justify their hostility towards me.
But they are wrong and they are going to stay wrong. Two-way players are popping up everywhere now. Skenes said he may try to hit again. Montgomery is in the portal partly because he didn’t get enough innings on the mound.
It ain’t over.
@DD 2024 posted:Hey HSBBW.
https://www.mlb.com/news/recor...t=mlb-draft-coverage
I told you so.
@DanJ @old_school @BOF @adbono @RJM @baseballhs - Things Change. All. The. Time.
Your hostility towards me for posting about what I was seeing two years ago - a rising tide of two-way players - is something you should reflect on. It was not because I was a newbie parent of a 14 year old, or that I was emotional, or that I had no idea about college baseball, or any other insult you hurled at me.
I knew what I was talking about. Your arrogance blinded you to the possibility that I might be right.
*I am right*
You were dead wrong. Own it.
Since when is honesty = hostility?
Go look at some old @TRhit threads for some "fun" interactions. I miss him and wish his family well.
Best of luck in the 2-way journey.
Being depradted as a potential two way doesn’t make a player a two way. Let’s check back in a couple of years and see if any of the drafted two ways are playing as two ways. I’ll bet against it. My ground rules are a player with a lot of at bats and a handful of innings pitched is not a two way. Same thing for a lot of innings and a handful of at bats. In two years it will be obvious which direction they’re headed.
None of these drafted players are Ohtani. They’re not even as talented as Brendan McKay was coming out of college.
@BOF posted:.So true. What most HS dads, players, observers who have never had a son play, or have played college baseball have no idea how freaking difficult and competitive it is. Given competition, workouts, practices, academics, injuries, (girls) and other distractions just getting on the field is a challenge.
@adbono posted:100% correct.
@DanJ posted:This thread continues to go nowhere fast. If I am soaking up what many are spilling, I get the sense that people's belief that we're on the verge of a 2-way player sea change is supported by very little hard data and largely sourced by the gut and a desire to see it happen.
I see pitching reaching for higher and higher velos AND getting them. I see hitting reaching for more and more long balls AND getting them. These are known trends that no one denies. So for any sort of 2-way revolution to happen, these kids will basically need to throw 100+ and hit 30+ HRs consistently, right? Yes, I am exaggerating some here, but the trajectory points in this direction. Sure, I think most would agree that seeing more 2-ways would be cool. But reality and data argue that we'll continue to see a few aberrations here and there and that's it.
This is a thread we can time capsule for 3-4 years then circle back to. Then whomever ends up being right, can do their "I told you so" dances.
@DanJ posted:@DD 2024 Your first paragraph has me scratching my head. You state all that as if its some new trend. My 2021 started playing travel ball at age 7 in the summers. Played fall ball about every other year. Just got down playing high school ball in the spring for the last 4 years, summer legion ball for 3 of those 4 years and travel ball last summer. In the last 11ish years my son has played baseball (almost always at the highest levels available in our area and region), everything you've said has been the case. So my response to what you said would be "of course you're seeing that. Because that's how it's been for a long time." Everything you said is as easily explained today as it was 10+ years ago when Ohtani was still in high school.
"I’m seeing two-way players in HS and high level club ball." - coaches want to win and don't have 25+-man rosters. They also don't coach much at all. So they grab the best guy for the job at the time in order to win.
"Seeing it at combines and camps." - My son basically stopped pitching once he got to HS to preserve his arm, but last February he added the pitching portion when he did a PBR showcase. It was the winter/early spring of his junior year and he wanted to cast as wide a net a possible. To come off as versatile as possible to increase his chances of getting offers.
"I’m seeing players describe themselves this way in their Instagram bios." - again, recruiting. It's called marketing. And boasting. Kids being kids.
"I’m seeing long-time club coaches allowing it." - same as I said above - coaches want to win. They're not there to sort out who will be 2-way guys and who will be pitchers in the future.
"Parents talking about and supporting it." - this might the worst one of the bunch. It's simply parents being parents. Of course Johnny can do everything! He always was the best!
Ohtani is no doubt capturing the imaginations of many, but unless he's somehow been able to inspire kids retroactively to back before he was even born, I can't imagine him getting credit for things are not at all new/different.
@younggun posted:It’s pretty simply. The proof is in the pudding. Outside of Ohtani, who else can you name? So 1 out of 700 players? .0014%. I realize you may be talking specifically about college guys, but you used him as an example. The last guy I can remember that everyone thought had the ability to do both at professional level is Brendan McKay out of Louisville. I just looked up his stats. He is in AA and has a total of 22 ABs this year at a .091 average. He has had 10 ABs at MLB level with 2 hits. Am this guy was EXTREMELY talented in college. There will most likely always be 1 or 2 guys at the highest levels that do this, but it will not be the norm.
@adbono posted:100% correct. This thread devolved into facts vs feelings 2 pages ago.
@RJM posted:This Nebraska story is right up there with …
Of course I’ll respect you in the morning.
and
The check is in the mail.
For any father of a 13u player who commits and believes he’s guaranteed being two way player in five years, I have some beachfront swamp land for sale.
@baseballhs posted:I don't think anyone is trying to say what you see is invalid. They are just saying they all saw it too at your son's age and in travel ball and hs....you don't see it much in college or pro. I think you believe that it wasn't this way for everyone else...many are just further along in their journey. Freshman and sophomore years my son showcased as a two way. Partly because its boring to just go as a PO and partly to show he was athletic and could do other things. He threw 87 across the IF and they ranked him as the #3 3B in the state. He would NEVER have had an opportunity to play D1 as a 3rd baseman. Masyn Winn was a great 2020 two way player in hs. Top 10 in the nation easy. Could pitch up to 98mph. Crushed the ball. Great hands, incredible arm. He was drafted last year out of hs. He will never pitch in the minors or majors. They are however reporting that he is one of the best arms out there including all major league SS. They really are unicorns. Enjoy being a 2 way with any coach that lets him do it, for as long as he can. Just be realistic that it is a rare occurrence that it continues into. college or beyond.
@DanJ posted:@DD 2024 No, DD, don't go pouting on us and throwing your hands up in the air. We're all adults here. Your opinions, observations and things you "know to be true," are being subjected to fair scrutiny. Which you should absolutely want. Any opinion/conclusion/etc in ANY topic that is worthwhile, needs to be subject to questioning and scrutiny. The strongest opinions and conclusions always stand up when challenged. Lesser ones don't hold up quite as well. To each their own, but me, I want all my opinions to stand up well when they're challenged by others. Otherwise, how can I feel good about where I've landed? I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinions, but I would ask that anyone who disagrees, steps up and makes a strong case against them. Hell, I am not omnipotent and I'm only 47. I'm nowhere near knowing it all nor will I ever be. But I surely want to get closer if possible. So bring some new data to me. Something with some substance. You won't hurt my feelings if you erode any of my opinions or current conclusions. If anything, I'll thank you for bringing new info/data to my attention and broadening my perspective. What I "know" is constantly evolving and I'm glad for that.
We all have a choice to make. Do we want to be right or do we want to be as knowledgeable as possible?
@old_school posted:Good to see 13u,14u and 15u are still the same as they have been for the last 15 or more years. I would assume that over 50% of your staff is a 2-way at this point in time, probably higher.
You know how you and your buddies laugh at 9u dads who think they know everything....yeah give that some thought.
@younggun posted:Old school, that’s pretty funny.
Glad you brought up hostility @BOF.
You guys are all empty baskets: you don't ask questions, you make wild and stupid assumptions about people to boost your ego but have no idea who and what you're really talking about, and your views are stuck in the 1990s. Arrogance prevents you from seeing what is right in front of you:
8 MLB teams spending millions drafting a record number of two-ways
MLB.com writing about the trend
2021 AL MVP and soon-to-be highest-ever paid player - a two-way
2023 #1 overall pick saying he wants to go back to being a two way
But HSBBW beer dads all still crying "no it ain't happening".
Arrogance = Blindness
Just like the guy in the sub.
@RJM posted:This Nebraska story is right up there with …
Of course I’ll respect you in the morning.
and
The check is in the mail.
For any father of a 13u player who commits and believes he’s guaranteed being two way player in five years, I have some beachfront swamp land for sale.
@RJM posted:I apologize (head down). I suggested a pitcher getting three hits in four at bats is stats in minute numbers. I also posted for 1% of D1 players to be two ways there would have to be more than one hundred of them. Shame on me.
@RJM posted:Being depradted as a potential two way doesn’t make a player a two way. Let’s check back in a couple of years and see if any of the drafted two ways are playing as two ways. I’ll bet against it. My ground rules are a player with a lot of at bats and a handful of innings pitched is not a two way. Same thing for a lot of innings and a handful of at bats. In two years it will be obvious which direction they’re headed.
None of these drafted players are Ohtani. They’re not even as talented as Brendan McKay was coming out of college.
Oh, look, it's the King of Dissonance, moving the goalposts again.
I don't think you can count the HS guys as 2 ways yet. Almost every great college player was a 2 way in HS. I think all except 2 pitchers at my son's team played both ways in HS but none in college. Son is the only one still listed as a 2 way and has never swung a bat in a game in 4 years but is still listed that way and gets to swing in practice, even at CWS. When we see them in a year, I will believe they are 2 way guys. There are only a couple at major D1 programs and all of them had struggles at times in one category or another and I'm not sure any of them make it as 2 ways.
I’m beginning to think you are off your rocker. I literally read through and most of it is just other people’s observations. You may have inserted a tone that wasn’t there. You talk about condescending comments and you have done nothing but call others names and tell people they are clueless. I’ll use your line, “read back through what you wrote”.
@PitchingFan posted:I don't think you can count the HS guys as 2 ways yet. Almost every great college player was a 2 way in HS. I think all except 2 pitchers at my son's team played both ways in HS but none in college. Son is the only one still listed as a 2 way and has never swung a bat in a game in 4 years but is still listed that way and gets to swing in practice, even at CWS. When we see them in a year, I will believe they are 2 way guys. There are only a couple at major D1 programs and all of them had struggles at times in one category or another and I'm not sure any of them make it as 2 ways.
Did you read the article? 6 of 8 were drafted out of college
https://www.mlb.com/news/recor...t=mlb-draft-coverage
Giants
Mets
Royals
Padres
Yankees
Reds
Marlins
Dodgers
Surely these 8 teams have it wrong and the beer dads on HSBBW are right.
@baseballhs posted:I’m beginning to think you are off your rocker. I literally read through and most of it is just other people’s observations. You talk about condescending comments and you have done nothing but call others names and tell people they are clueless. I’ll use your line, “read back through what you wrote”.
You'll do anything but admit you're wrong.
Or ask an intelligent question.
@DD 2024 posted:You'll do anything but admit you're wrong.
Or ask an intelligent question.
Major lack of self awareness.
Let’s see if they all play 2 way in the mlb. Acting like 1% of the draft is some major shift? How much did/will they sign for (I don’t know but it’s a valid question). Does the fact that eight guys out of college were good enough to be drafted out of 614, make you right? I’m not sure, but your attitude and responses make you ridiculous..
*I’m not a beer dad, I’m a beer mom. Assumptions 🙄
**also from your article:
It’s also quite common for teams to take two-way players and shift them one way or the other in hopes of unlocking their full potential. Caden Grice won the 2023 Olerud Award, given annually to the best two-way player in college, but the D-backs announced him only as a pitcher when they took him 64th overall.
Son was a true 2 way in HS. #1 pitcher on the team (90mph fastball) and SS when he wasn't pitching (.450 avg senior year) Was recruited as an IF (likely 2B) by a couple schools and as a pitcher by some. Ended up taking an offer that was worded as "we want you as a pitcher, but you'll get an opportunity to earn time in the field). Freshman year....was a midweek starter at the beginning of the season. Saturday night guy by week 5. Never took one ball in the field in practice....but did get some AB's....mostly in late inning garbage time situations. Sophomore year.....closer on a bad team....so not a lot of innings....and just a few AB's. Junior year....back to starter....and got 60 or so AB's. Senior year....dealing with an arm issue...so no pitching. DH/1B. Played in 80% of their games. Second on the team in AVG (.340), RBI's and Hits. 14 K's in 145 AB's. Looking back, I think he kind of wishes he had gone to a school that looked at him as a position player....and then got to do some pitching instead of the other way around. Either way....I guess my point is that a kid should keep playing a position as long as he can. Never know when a opportunity may come up.
@baseballhs posted:Major lack of self awareness.
Let’s see if they all play 2 way in the mlb. Acting like 1% of the draft is some major shift? How much did/will they sign for (I don’t know but it’s a valid question). Does the fact that eight guys out of college were good enough to be drafted out of 614, make you right? I’m not sure, but your attitude and responses make you ridiculous..
*I’m not a beer dad, I’m a beer mom. Assumptions 🙄
**also from your article:
It’s also quite common for teams to take two-way players and shift them one way or the other in hopes of unlocking their full potential. Caden Grice won the 2023 Olerud Award, given annually to the best two-way player in college, but the D-backs announced him only as a pitcher when they took him 64th overall.
Here let me quote from the article on mlb.com entitled
Two-way? MLB teams say 'yes, way!' with eight in Draft
During the 2023 MLB Draft, teams took a record eight two-way players across 20 rounds, twice as many the previous four Drafts combined.
It’s also quite common for teams to take two-way players and shift them one way or the other in hopes of unlocking their full potential. Caden Grice won the 2023 Olerud Award, given annually to the best two-way player in college, but the D-backs announced him only as a pitcher when they took him 64th overall.
But this year's Draft could be the start of a new trend, with teams intending to try out so many players, mostly from college, both on the mound and at the plate.
Nice try on the selective quote!
I first learned to read when I was in grammar school, picture books mostly. By the time I was a full-time employee I could read entire novels. Worked my way up!
Just like all those two way HS and college players, some of whom are now being drafted as potential two-ways in the MLB. They are working their way up.
Does anyone have anything intelligent to ask or add?
Come back in 3 years and report the results. I’d be interested to hear how it turns out. Nothing you have presented proves that it’s not rare. And I think you were the only one in a fight here or who has been boiling over this for years. I’m glad you’ve found vindication.
I’m out, I’m gonna go drink some beer and start my son’s position training.
@DD 2024 posted:Glad you brought up hostility @BOF.
You guys are all empty baskets: you don't ask questions, you make wild and stupid assumptions about people to boost your ego but have no idea who and what you're really talking about, and your views are stuck in the 1990s. Arrogance prevents you from seeing what is right in front of you:
8 MLB teams spending millions drafting a record number of two-ways
MLB.com writing about the trend
2021 AL MVP and soon-to-be highest-ever paid player - a two-way
2023 #1 overall pick saying he wants to go back to being a two way
But HSBBW beer dads all still crying "no it ain't happening".
Arrogance = Blindness
Just like the guy in the sub.
8 MLB teams drafted ridiculously talented baseball players who happened to play 2 positions in college. I'm sure a couple even think "maybe we have the next Ohtani". The others knew the talent is there for these players and will figure out if they are a hitter or pitcher at the MLB level.
MLB is writing about it because it gets clicks.
Skenes didn't say he wanted to go back to hitting. A reporter jokingly asked if he was going to try to hit again and he sort of laughed and said yeah. In another interview later he said he's just a pitcher now.
As RJM mentioned, Brendan McKay was a better 2 way prospect than any of the guys drafted. His highest average in the minors was .232 and this year he has 2 hits in 22 AB's. His days of being a 2 way are over.
@DD 2024 posted:Oh, look, it's the King of Dissonance, moving the goalposts again.
If I’m moving the goalposts it’s for your benefit. Drafting a player who played two way in high school or college doesn’t mean he’s going to be a two way at the next level. None of these drafted players have spent a day as major leaguers or are established major leaguers yet. Therefore your point isn’t proven. I’m giving you more time.
As for chat board royalty you’ve proved over the past twenty-four hours you’re the Queen of Drama.
it’s amusing when a person used one word in their post that’s beyond the rest of the vocabulary. Was “dissonance” on your word of the day calendar this week?
@baseballhs posted:I’m beginning to think you are off your rocker. I literally read through and most of it is just other people’s observations. You may have inserted a tone that wasn’t there. You talk about condescending comments and you have done nothing but call others names and tell people they are clueless. I’ll use your line, “read back through what you wrote”.
I think he’s leaving the board. But he wants to go out with a bang as the biggest arsehole that ever posted here by taking on the entire board.
It’s an inexperienced baseball parent using the article/opinion of one sports writer as fact. He’s taking on a lot of knowledge and experience from the board. If he only knew how foolish he looks. He’s probably not aware everyone is shaking their head and laughing. Until these players establish themselves as MLB two ways the arsehole taking everyone on isn’t right.
@DD 2024 posted:Here let me quote from the article on mlb.com entitled
Two-way? MLB teams say 'yes, way!' with eight in Draft
During the 2023 MLB Draft, teams took a record eight two-way players across 20 rounds, twice as many the previous four Drafts combined.
It’s also quite common for teams to take two-way players and shift them one way or the other in hopes of unlocking their full potential. Caden Grice won the 2023 Olerud Award, given annually to the best two-way player in college, but the D-backs announced him only as a pitcher when they took him 64th overall.
But this year's Draft could be the start of a new trend, with teams intending to try out so many players, mostly from college, both on the mound and at the plate.
Nice try on the selective quote!
I first learned to read when I was in grammar school, picture books mostly. By the time I was a full-time employee I could read entire novels. Worked my way up!
Just like all those two way HS and college players, some of whom are now being drafted as potential two-ways in the MLB. They are working their way up.
Does anyone have anything intelligent to ask or add?
“Could be the start of a new trend.” It doesn’t say IS the start of a new trend. You might want to get an understanding of how a sports editors room or a sports talk show works.
The editor or director point out there might be a story here. Who wants it? It doesn’t make two ways a fact. It’s still a theoretical. It’s what a lot of far more knowledgeable ** people than you are trying to tell you.
** travel coaches, high school coaches, instructors, scouts, parents who boys have been there, done that
Now it’s popcorn and beverage time to sit back and watch the foolishness.
I'd say we don't really know what's going on in this guy's life. Might be something really challenging as the lashing out is a bit off. I say we afford a little grace and move along. It's a silly topic to get too worked up about. BTW my family is going to watch Ohtani pitch tonight at the Big A while I work... making money so they can go watch him pitch... not bitter...
Does he know the guy who wrote this for MLB.com is a sports editor and not a GM?
I don't have a dog in this, nor do I particularly care but I think it's funny how people think a job or title gives you credibility. It's amusing that the big point is "well MLB.com wrote about it". Like the writer who has probably never touched a baseball competitively is more knowledgeable than the "beer dads" (and moms*) who have sent their kids to college and pro ball, just because his paycheck is cut by MLB.
Max Kellerman is technically a boxing expert. I wouldn't go to him for advice on how to throw a punch.
@RJM posted:If I’m moving the goalposts it’s for your benefit. Drafting a player who played two way in high school or college doesn’t mean he’s going to be a two way at the next level. None of these drafted players have spent a day as major leaguers or are established major leaguers yet. Therefore your point isn’t proven. I’m giving you more time.
As for chat board royalty you’ve proved over the past twenty-four hours you’re the Queen of Drama.
it’s amusing when a person used one word in their post that’s beyond the rest of the vocabulary. Was “dissonance” on your word of the day calendar this week?
When something is called out as being "for your benefit" is it 100% done to serve internal needs. Goes for both people and corporations.
@RJM posted:I think he’s leaving the board. But he wants to go out with a bang as the biggest arsehole that ever posted here by taking on the entire board.
It’s an inexperienced baseball parent using the article/opinion of one sports writer as fact. He’s taking on a lot of knowledge and experience from the board. If he only knew how foolish he looks. He’s probably not aware everyone is shaking their head and laughing. Until these players establish themselves as MLB two ways the arsehole taking everyone on isn’t right.
"Knowledge and experience" - you had no idea 8 two-ways players would be drafted. You didn't even know they existed.
@RJM posted:“Could be the start of a new trend.” It doesn’t say IS the start of a new trend. You might want to get an understanding of how a sports editors room or a sports talk show works.
The editor or director point out there might be a story here. Who wants it? It doesn’t make two ways a fact. It’s still a theoretical. It’s what a lot of far more knowledgeable ** people than you are trying to tell you.
** travel coaches, high school coaches, instructors, scouts, parents who boys have been there, done that
Yes I am sure the writer for MLB.com has no idea what the MLB teams are thinking! Completely made everything up. No doubt!
@RJM posted:Now it’s popcorn and beverage time to sit back and watch the foolishness.
In other words if I reply and question you I am a fool.
To paraphrase Yoda - the arrogance and stupidity is deep in this one.
But at least you learned a new word today. That's something.
Good riddance King.
I too don't get the hostility. Sure, MLB is drafting more 2-way players, which means that there are excellent 2-way players in a few colleges. What people with experience (which includes me) are saying here is that college coaches recognize that some players want to play 2-way and they use that as a recruiting inducement, but most then don't actually let them do it. The reasons were summarized by DD2024 much earlier in this thread; in college usually having to do either with risk of injury to a pitcher or because there are plenty more better hitters or because there's not time to do both well.
I think it's really important for HS players to understand that when committing to a college, not some pie-in-the-sky, well MLB is drafting more 2-ways so I will get to actually do it too.
In a few rare cases, the coach will use a player 2-way. So the interesting question to me is not about the MLB, it's about whether college coaches are getting more amenable to actually allowing excellent players to 2-way. And so I'd want to know some more about these players, their teams, and their coaches, to understand why and how those particular players were getting to 2-way.
Caden Grice is a great ball player but will not play first in MLBand I’m not sure Jac will either but incredible college players.
Son was all-state utility player in HS freshman year Btw, when he was not pitching he played ss and catcher out of necessity and no errors at either. But for some reason they have not let him do either at UT except on a rare pitchers as fielders occasion.
might be because he is left handed. Necessity and raw talent does a lot. But not at the highest level.
@Dadbelly2023 your compassion is commendable. But many of us have gone thru difficult (sometimes traumatic) episodes in our life without resorting to getting hostile with strangers online. That isn’t adult behavior. That is childlike behavior. It’s indefensible for a grown man. Many of us (myself included) have made posts that were regrettable and sometimes an apology was in order. And then we all moved on. But this feels different and not in a good way.
I have been following this topic the past few days. I also had to go back and read the entire topic from the beginning. I don't even know how to respond because I think that it probably wouldn't matter at this point. I can tell you that in all the years that I have been here, I have never seen anyone upset the natives like you have. Of course when you come to a site and no one knows you other than a few sentences in your bio, most will say and do whatever to piss the others out.
I am not here to insult you. But here's my opinion, they are NOT wrong.
I do believe there is a slight trend in allowing players to try to pitch and hit, but it's not the future. Once in a while the unicorn comes along and you have to let them go for it. I am referring to a true 2 way player .And if you throw 100 from the left side and hit record breaking home runs out of the ballpark, you will have a chance to do both, which is really, really difficult in college. It takes a special type of player, and special coaches to achieve something that is very very very hard to do.
I think the writer did a nice article, but that's his job. I have no clue who he is. It will be interesting to see how it works out for these players.
Please don't be mad. IMO, the random sampling of a few 2 way players drafted tells us nothing about which direction MLB is headed.
JMO
@PitchingFan posted:Caden Grice is a great ball player but will not play first in MLBand I’m not sure Jac will either but incredible college players.
Son was all-state utility player in HS freshman year Btw, when he was not pitching he played ss and catcher out of necessity and no errors at either. But for some reason they have not let him do either at UT except on a rare pitchers as fielders occasion.
might be because he is left handed. Necessity and raw talent does a lot. But not at the highest level.
The team made it clear Grice was being drafted as a pitcher only.
We all have HS stories. In HS son was an RHP but voted county utility player of the year as a senior. IMO whatever they did before college makes no difference now. When he got to college no way would they even let him pick up a bat, which he did in practice when coaches weren't around.
From my understanding, Jac was recruited as pitcher but had TJS right before he got to campus. After 9 months he asked HC if he could hit and there went the redshirt. He is effective at first because of his height. But it's been a challenge and they will do it all over again next season, I am sure.
Only Tim can provide the path to the Holy Grail....as only I know much what is hidden...
Because of demand I have updated my "Tim's flamethrowers school of pitching" and have added "Tim's school of bat burners and flame throwers" for only and additional $1,000. For the combined program you can get both for $3,999, so brave baseball knights if you doubt your courage and strength sign up for Tim's two way school and ye may find the Holy Grail...
...and for a limited time for the first 25 brave knights to sign up by the Lords day of July 23rd ye will get an additional gift of a signed Holy Hand Grenade by King Arthurs descendant @TPM and tho she is only a women (we of course will have to verify this with her pronouns) knows much of what is hidden...
@DD 2024 posted:Glad you brought up hostility @BOF.
You guys are all empty baskets: you don't ask questions, you make wild and stupid assumptions about people to boost your ego but have no idea who and what you're really talking about, and your views are stuck in the 1990s. Arrogance prevents you from seeing what is right in front of you:
8 MLB teams spending millions drafting a record number of two-ways
MLB.com writing about the trend
2021 AL MVP and soon-to-be highest-ever paid player - a two-way
2023 #1 overall pick saying he wants to go back to being a two way
But HSBBW beer dads all still crying "no it ain't happening".
Arrogance = Blindness
Just like the guy in the sub.
You make a good point. I will ask a question. Besides going on MLB and reading an article do you have any real world experience with this? Do you see this on your son's college team? Have you spoken to RCs while on your son's journey that are telling you this is the way forward?
Not saying it won't happen in the future, but that article is all speculation.
"But this year's Draft could be the start of a new trend, with teams intending to try out so many players, mostly from college, both on the mound and at the plate."
It would be dumb for teams not to try it if they think it'll make their team better.
You've mentioned several times about believing an MLB writer over people in this forum. You do realize that person is a blogger and is paid to get clicks. Because of Ohtani, 2-way players are a hot topic.
And me, yeah I'd absolutely trust the collective experience and knowledge on this forum over that "MLB writer" when it comes to college recruiting, which is what this forum is about.
You can yell from the mountains and stamp your feet all you want, but currently there is one 2 way player in the majors.
@nycdad posted:You make a good point. I will ask a question. Besides going on MLB and reading an article do you have any real world experience with this? Do you see this on your son's college team? Have you spoken to RCs while on your son's journey that are telling you this is the way forward?
Not saying it won't happen in the future, but that article is all speculation.
"But this year's Draft could be the start of a new trend, with teams intending to try out so many players, mostly from college, both on the mound and at the plate."
It would be dumb for teams not to try it if they think it'll make their team better.
You've mentioned several times about believing an MLB writer over people in this forum. You do realize that person is a blogger and is paid to get clicks. Because of Ohtani, 2-way players are a hot topic.And me, yeah I'd absolutely trust the collective experience and knowledge on this forum over that "MLB writer" when it comes to college recruiting, which is what this forum is about.
You can yell from the mountains and stamp your feet all you want, but currently there is one 2 way player in the majors.
Also even if a quarter of the players in the MLB in 10 years are 2 ways. It doesn't make the original point incorrect. At that time, trying to be a 2 way player in college was not recommended.
@DD 2024 posted:Does anyone have anything intelligent to ask or add?
Things I observed in the article.
2 drafted from AL so they will more than likely not do both.
6 drafted from NL. 2 came from programs that would benefit financially from having 2 way guys
5 college, 2 HS, 1 Juco who may have the best shot at doing both. JMO
1 college player hasn't pitched since 2021
1 college quarterback who hasn't pitched since HS.
None of this really makes much sense but may have been a good read for some folks.
@TimtheEnchanter posted:Only Tim can provide the path to the Holy Grail....as only I know much what is hidden...
Because of demand I have updated my "Tim's flamethrowers school of pitching" and have added "Tim's school of bat burners and flame throwers" for only and additional $1,000. For the combined program you can get both for $3,999, so brave baseball knights if you doubt your courage and strength sign up for Tim's two way school and ye may find the Holy Grail...
...and for a limited time for the first 25 brave knights to sign up by the Lords day of July 23rd ye will get an additional gift of a signed Holy Hand Grenade by King Arthurs descendant @TPM and tho she is only a women (we of course will have to verify this with her pronouns) knows much of what is hidden...
This is greatness!
@TPM posted:Things I observed in the article.
2 drafted from AL so they will more than likely not do both.
6 drafted from NL. 2 came from programs that would benefit financially from having 2 way guys
5 college, 2 HS, 1 Juco who may have the best shot at doing both. JMO
1 college player hasn't pitched since 2021
1 college quarterback who hasn't pitched since HS.
None of this really makes much sense but may have been a good read for some folks.
It's all speculation, the exact same article could have been written after last year's draft. You have to question an article that uses PG rankings to back their thesis.
Should be embarrassed to use this article to come in hear and sh*t all over everybody.
@TPM posted:6 drafted from NL. 2 came from programs that would benefit financially from having 2 way guys
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner.
Thank you.
@DD 2024 posted:Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner.
Thank you.
For what?
Two mid D1 players playing at programs that likely were not fully funded but drafted, does not prove that this is the future of MLB.
This is a cost effective practice for a lot of programs, you know 2 for the price of 1. I was not referring to MLB teams.
But you are welcome.