High school: pitcher only or pitcher and position

Son #1 - P / 1st Base and DH

Son #2 - P / 3rd Base

Son #3 - P only

Son #1 PO (2020)

Son #2 P/1B (to cut down on throwing when not pitching)

PO, which I don't think he minded. I was a hitter and I always thought he could hit but he never really got a chance. I often would see or talk to old friends or teammates and when they heard I had a playing son often I'd be asked "can he hit it like you did?". My standard response was "no, he doesn't hit like me, but I sure never could throw it like he can"

I need a third choice since my son doesn't pitch:

* Position Only

My kid is a C/OF (POS Only)

Oldest son : freestyle swimmer                     Middle son: P/OF in HS, PO in college          Youngest son : position player HS & college

P/1B in HS

PO in college

When he aggravates me I call him a P.O.S!

Pitcher and ss.

1B/LHP in HS

PO in college but trying for 2 way (D3)

HS - Center fielder and relief pitcher

College - made him a PO

pitcher and position player  (LHP/1B ... sometimes DH or EH)

* On HS team this spring - he was in the weekly pitching rotation, however, his positional playing time and his DH ABs were inversly proportional to his strike-out rate the prior week.

* plays on two summer travel teams, as a two-way for his local team that competes in mostly regional events; and as a PO on a travel team that set a goal to win WWBA 15U this week.

baseball adults tell my son he is going to be a PO ... the kid is still in the denial stage (far from ready to except his pre-determined baseball fate).

HS Sr Year - RHP & DH (note: in his JUCO recruiting journey all college coaches asked if he wanted to be PO or 2 way and he told them all PO - his decision)

HS JR Year - PO (Occasional pinch hitter or DH) - started lower but finished the year as #2 guy in rotation

I want to play along too, but need a 3rd category--position player only (started 6 positions- all but 1B,P,C)

In HS, P/2B.

OF and extremely reluctant P. Got recruited by a lot of schools as a 2 way because he looks the part. Position player only now.

C/OF...knucklehead also made some eyebrow raising comments about playing 3B and Ricky Vaughn for his HS team, yikes

There is no reason to take the bat out of the hands of a HS pitcher, even if he is mediocre, or worse. Remember, 50% the MLB requires pitchers to hit.

MLB owners create POs because they want to protect their investment - pitchers are usually the highest paid individuals on the field and their employers want to minimize risk. Having POs on HS, club and even college teams is emulation of a model that’s not relevant.

@DD 2024 posted:

There is no reason to take the bat out of the hands of a HS pitcher, even if he is mediocre, or worse. Remember, 50% the MLB requires pitchers to hit.

MLB owners create POs because they want to protect their investment - pitchers are usually the highest paid individuals on the field and their employers want to minimize risk. Having POs on HS, club and even college teams is emulation of a model that’s not relevant.

That’s an interesting take that very few people would agree with in totality. I will give you the part about HS and club ball. There is no good reason to take the bat out of a pitchers hands at those levels - assuming that the P in question is the best available hitter on the team (and that’s sometimes not the case). In HS ball having another player bat instead of the P is a way to get one more kid into the game and some HS coaches are worried about politics enough to play it that way. In travel ball it’s all about money and making kids POs is a way to increase the roster size and increase revenue accordingly. Your argument loses credibility after that. It’s been discussed many times that once you get to college ball there are only so many hours in the day. At every level except D3 the time demands of position specific workouts, film study, classes, homework, study hall, team meetings, travel, and social life make it unrealistic to try to be a two way player. Anyone that has been there will attest to that. The same is true at the MLB level, and while NL pitchers still currently stand in a batters box a time or 2 when they pitch, very few are good hitters at that level - and if they had tried to continue hitting they likely would never have made it to the big leagues. NL is probably headed towards the DH anyway which will end some of this speculation.

PO and loved it.   Also played basketball....Freshmen year.  No more basketball after that because he was on varsity baseball his sophomore year. 

@adbono posted:

That’s an interesting take that very few people would agree with in totality. I will give you the part about HS and club ball. There is no good reason to take the bat out of a pitchers hands at those levels - assuming that the P in question is the best available hitter on the team (and that’s sometimes not the case). In HS ball having another player bat instead of the P is a way to get one more kid into the game and some HS coaches are worried about politics enough to play it that way. In travel ball it’s all about money and making kids POs is a way to increase the roster size and increase revenue accordingly. Your argument loses credibility after that. It’s been discussed many times that once you get to college ball there are only so many hours in the day. At every level except D3 the time demands of position specific workouts, film study, classes, homework, study hall, team meetings, travel, and social life make it unrealistic to try to be a two way player. Anyone that has been there will attest to that. The same is true at the MLB level, and while NL pitchers still currently stand in a batters box a time or 2 when they pitch, very few are good hitters at that level - and if they had tried to continue hitting they likely would never have made it to the big leagues. NL is probably headed towards the DH anyway which will end some of this speculation.

Agree re: HS allowing more kids to play and clubs seeking more money drives PO slots  

But misnomer alert - D3 practices 4 less hours per week than D1 per NCAA rules, not a huge difference considering practices + time in the weight room, at mandatory study hall, captains practices, film time, travel and the other things you mentioned.

And - Sam. Highfill.

It’s possible.

Ohtani just makes you wonder if there isn’t something off about the American system that we’ve never produced a two-way superstar like him. (With apologies to the Babe.)

When people say it’s not about the money, it’s usually about the money.

@DD 2024 posted:

Agree re: HS allowing more kids to play and clubs seeking more money drives PO slots  

But misnomer alert - D3 practices 4 less hours per week than D1 per NCAA rules, not a huge difference considering practices + time in the weight room, at mandatory study hall, captains practices, film time, travel and the other things you mentioned.

And - Sam. Highfill.

It’s possible.

Ohtani just makes you wonder if there isn’t something off about the American system that we’ve never produced a two-way superstar like him. (With apologies to the Babe.)

When people say it’s not about the money, it’s usually about the money.

I played JuCo/D1. One of my sons played D3 and the other JuCo/D2. I am quite familiar with the difference in the time commitments at each level. The time commitment at D3 is significantly less than any other level of college baseball - beginning in the fall (when allowed number of practices is less than half at other levels) and continuing into spring (where D3 plays a 40 game schedule vs more like 60 games for JuCo, NAIA, D2 & D1). Your argument does not hold water.

POS/P

He pitched for varsity as a freshman, then played third with his grade through senior year. Now pitcher only. Favorite quote — "coach, if you need me at left bench to help the team win, I'll play the best left bench I can."

Three sons.  All three two way guys.  2 of 3 pitchers who played field.  1 who was Ss who pitched

@adbono posted:

I played JuCo/D1. One of my sons played D3 and the other JuCo/D2. I am quite familiar with the difference in the time commitments at each level. The time commitment at D3 is significantly less than any other level of college baseball - beginning in the fall (when allowed number of practices is less than half at other levels) and continuing into spring (where D3 plays a 40 game schedule vs more like 60 games for JuCo, NAIA, D2 & D1). Your argument does not hold water.

🤔

Our HS coach always had a DH (to get a 10th player in the game?), for whichever player on the field he felt was not the best hitter.  Usually it was not the pitcher.

Aren't you missing another option?  DH?  For my HS teams, I had several pitchers who played defensive positions.  We had a policy that they would not play a defensive position the day after they pitched.  However, every year I had one or two pitcher/players who would DH if I didn't put them on the field.  That really gave me a great advantage over other teams.  One or two of these types of players also got to hit in college though they didn't play defense. 

They told my son as a freshman on varsity, PO. He balked so they put him on JV. He pitched, he hit, played 3rd, outfield, SS caught a few times.

Sophomore and Junior year PO. Senior year, pitcher, DH and first base. Led team in HR, ERA, BA. He was awarded utility player of the year. He loved it.

MLB needs to go to DH. National milb teams start pitchers hitting at AA, with not enough practice, son pulled a lat muscle and had to be out for a bit. Not good.

2015 - OF only HS/D2

2018  - OF / P HS - OF only D2  - will get opportunity to pitch during fall practice this year @ D2

2023: POS/P

2025: P/POS

JV: pitcher/3rd

varsity sophomore and PO/DH

varsity junior/senior: PO

Our coach threw starting pitchers complete games and usually relied on 2-3 to start all district and playoff games.

son 1 pitcher

son 2 pitcher

son 3 pitcher

son 4 pitcher

@bacdorslider posted:

son 1 pitcher

son 2 pitcher

son 3 pitcher

son 4 pitcher

Looks just like the Angels 2021 draft

Are we seeing any "Mind Set" changes, now that Ohtani is showing that a person can be great at both hitting and pitching? Or is everyone just putting him down as "not human" and carrying on with the "Pitchers can't hit" mind set. 

@Adams Baseball posted:

Are we seeing any "Mind Set" changes, now that Ohtani is showing that a person can be great at both hitting and pitching? Or is everyone just putting him down as "not human" and carrying on with the "Pitchers can't hit" mind set.

Many pitchers are also the top hitters on their high school team. What occurs at the college level and continues into the pros is given the level of the challenge there isn’t enough time for most players to put in the work to maintain a high level of competitive skill in both pitching and hitting.

There are likely many pitchers had they chosen the position/hitting route over pitching would have been successful position players and hitters at the college and pro level.

There were years in college my son was moved between infield and outfield over the season. He often felt he wasn’t getting in enough reps at one position or the other. Getting in pitching and hitting work is an entirely different level of challenge.

Rick Ankiel

If there's not enough time for pitchers to practice hitting and go to school, how to explain Sam Highfill then?

@DD 2024 posted:

If there's not enough time for pitchers to practice hitting and go to school, how to explain Sam Highfill then?

Please don’t haul out the outliers as if it will work for everyone. There’s always going to be a handful of exceptions to the norm.

@RJM posted:

Please don’t haul out the outliers as if it will work for everyone. There’s always going to be a handful of exceptions to the norm.

Understood.

Yet the scenario exactly argues your case. Please think about it: Highfill was called on to hit at a moment's notice. And then went 3-4 against an elite college pitcher, with little to no practice. He hadn't picked up a bat in over a year, yet clearly had untapped, elite-level skills.

So how many others are there like him?  Is it a handful? Is it dozens? It is hundreds? We don't know. And under the current system, we can't know.

I'm asking: why not?

@DD 2024 posted:

.Yet the scenario exactly argues your case. Please think about it: Highfill was called on to hit at a moment's notice. And then went 3-4 against an elite college pitcher, with little to no practice. He hadn't picked up a bat in over a year, yet clearly had untapped, elite-level skills.

So how many others are there like him?  Is it a handful? Is it dozens? It is hundreds? We don't know. And under the current system, we can't know.

I'm asking: why not?

Good point.  Seems to me that MLB pitchers lack the killer instinct at the plate and desire to succeed at the plate.  They probably all have talent, although probably a lot of rust on that talent.  I feel like, during the regular season, it’s more of an ‘oh well, I tried’ moment rather than a ‘I’ll get on base even if someone cuts off my leg’ at bat.  Others (like Higfill) rise to the occasion, but that’s NCAA and he wasn’t as far removed from hitting as an pro would be.  I do love those types of performances.