Yep I agree politics have been used as a scapegoat and will continue, but don't try and tell me it doesn't happen. And if you coach and you don't allow it, kudos to you! We continue to tell our boys work hard, practice hard, keep a good attitude, and if your play warrants you to be out there then you will be.
It definitely happens everywhere not just in high school baseball. I have never once complained about playing time and never, ever will. My son has to earn his time, if he doesn't then don't blame the coach. If he can play he'll get his time. Better to play JV then sit varsity.
quote:Originally posted by 2Bmom:quote:Last night I didn't notice any of their kids pitching for 40 minutes, hitting for an hour and then lifting weights for another hour. That's what mine does 7 days a week. Still, "POLITICS" will be the cry.
You make a very good point, Coach. We rarely have any trouble finding an empty baseball field on the weekends to get in some extra practice. Mostly it's adult softballers that we have to compete with for rec fields.
If we do find someone out there, it's another poster on this site whose freshman player just made JV on a very good team, and another family on our team whose son is young but highly regarded by the coaches (and for good reason). We never see the complainers out there.
Reminds me of a comment made to me by the parent of another player after a particularly good 2B season a few years ago. "He had a magic bat." The guy meant this as a compliment. I wanted to tell him there was no magic involved - it was HARD WORK! But I smiled and said thanks.
This is a very interesting discussion. Lots of good points on both sides.
True that 2B!! Everytime we go out there, its the same few ...and they all bust their asses while some other folks are xboxing.
Quote from Knight Time
"A coach with an open door policy is either extremely weak, or a masochist."
Wow, I guess we do things a little different here down South. Must be that Southern hospitality!
Oh, and we do play some pretty good ball in Texas as well.
"A coach with an open door policy is either extremely weak, or a masochist."
Wow, I guess we do things a little different here down South. Must be that Southern hospitality!
Oh, and we do play some pretty good ball in Texas as well.
I am with those on the side of "NO OPEN DOOR POLICY"
Parents can volunteer to do things but they better stay off the field---the field is the coaches territory
Parents can volunteer to do things but they better stay off the field---the field is the coaches territory
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I am with those on the side of "NO OPEN DOOR POLICY"
Parents can volunteer to do things but they better stay off the field---the field is the coaches territory
I agree that the field is the coach's territory. We actually had a parent enter our dugout last spring because he apparently didn't like our coach yelling. I was down in the bullpen when it happened. Looked up and all the sudden the homeplate umpire was yelling into our dugout. We couldn't figure out what was going on until we saw this dad leaving. Guy was a major pain in the ... it's no wonder so was the son.
Open door policy has nothing to do with a parent on the field. Athletics are still part of an education in high school and the coach is still a teacher. Just like any other teacher, if you have questions about your kid, you should be able to approach the coach in a respectful manner. Seems to work well where I'm from.
"Last night I didn't notice any of their kids pitching for 40 minutes, hitting for an hour and then lifting weights for another hour. That's what mine does 7 days a week. Still, "POLITICS" will be the cry"
Thank you! Nothing against other kids hunting, fishing, and xboxing (that is their choice), but my son does none of these. He works his butt off for baseball and his education everyday, 7 days a week. That is why he is on the field and has been since he was a freshman.
Thank you! Nothing against other kids hunting, fishing, and xboxing (that is their choice), but my son does none of these. He works his butt off for baseball and his education everyday, 7 days a week. That is why he is on the field and has been since he was a freshman.
When I think of an open door policy I assume that means for the players not the parents.
In all my years of coaching I have never had a problem with a parent of the kid that works hard. The player that works hard in the off season. He stays after practice to get extra ground balls and bp. He works hard in the weight room and uses his practice time to get better. The kid that comes up to the field on Sundays to get in some extra work. The parents of these kids have never , not one time complained.
The ones that I have had to deal with over the years are the parents of the players that never stay after practice to get better. They are no where to be found in the off season. They do nothing outside of the hs season to improve at the game.
There seems to be a common thread in these situations. The player wants something given to him and the parents want something given to their son. They complain about the other kids playing in front of their son. But where is their son when those other players are working their butt's off to get better?
I have never played a team that had its best players sitting on the bench when the game started. When a parent sits around and complains about politics the kid will too. Whe a parent finds excuses for their kid the kid will buy into that philosophy as well. What good does it do for you or your son to cry about politics? Does it make him work harder? Does it give him solutions? Does it give him a game plan for success? No in fact it does the exact opposite. It gives him an excuse to whine and cry and find excuses on why he is not playing.
Quit crying about politics and work your butt off. Work so hard at the game that you become the type of player that can not be ignored. Quit looking for excuses and find some solutions. Parents should be helping their kids not hurting their kids. The parents that sit in the stands and complain the entire game and whine about politics are instilling that same attitude into their child. Quite frankly it is a losers mentality.
The coach , the teacher , the policeman etc etc etc.......... Come on, take responsibility for yourself and stop putting it on other people. You are either the best option or your not. If your not stop crying and start working.
The ones that I have had to deal with over the years are the parents of the players that never stay after practice to get better. They are no where to be found in the off season. They do nothing outside of the hs season to improve at the game.
There seems to be a common thread in these situations. The player wants something given to him and the parents want something given to their son. They complain about the other kids playing in front of their son. But where is their son when those other players are working their butt's off to get better?
I have never played a team that had its best players sitting on the bench when the game started. When a parent sits around and complains about politics the kid will too. Whe a parent finds excuses for their kid the kid will buy into that philosophy as well. What good does it do for you or your son to cry about politics? Does it make him work harder? Does it give him solutions? Does it give him a game plan for success? No in fact it does the exact opposite. It gives him an excuse to whine and cry and find excuses on why he is not playing.
Quit crying about politics and work your butt off. Work so hard at the game that you become the type of player that can not be ignored. Quit looking for excuses and find some solutions. Parents should be helping their kids not hurting their kids. The parents that sit in the stands and complain the entire game and whine about politics are instilling that same attitude into their child. Quite frankly it is a losers mentality.
The coach , the teacher , the policeman etc etc etc.......... Come on, take responsibility for yourself and stop putting it on other people. You are either the best option or your not. If your not stop crying and start working.
quote:Quit crying about politics and work your butt off. Work so hard at the game that you become the type of player that can not be ignored. Quit looking for excuses and find some solutions. Parents should be helping their kids not hurting their kids. The parents that sit in the stands and complain the entire game and whine about politics are instilling that same attitude into their child. Quite frankly it is a losers mentality.
Coach May I have to applaud this post. My son faced the same issues and concerns. Politics is around let's face it. How you deal and work around it is up to your kids work ethic and passion for the game. For the most part the kids that have everything handed to them do not work hard and do not have the same motivation as the kid who is trying to earn a spot. Baseball is a sport in which you get what you put in. Most of these kids do not put in the work and usually get past by the hard workers. I have seen it first hand and currently my son is a sophomore in HighSchool. He is a true sophomore at the age of 15. Most of his teammates are 16 yrs old and even though he feels he deserves to be on Varsity he loves playing every at bat and being the starting SS for JV. His coaches have seen and accepted him when he was a freshman last year and he outplayed most of the sophomores. He understands the politics of baseball and he also knows that you can't sit around complaining about others, get out there and outwork everyone else. Believe me it will work for your kids, I have seen it first hand.
A coach can tell a player who works hard when it would be easier to do anything else. The player who comes in to the season in better shape than last year, the one that runs faster, throws harder, hits better. It shows what you did in the off season. Whether you were working out or playing video games it shows one way or the other. Some kids believe that just normal growth will help them get better. Others know that it takes hard work and determination and those are the ones that will play and possibly continue to play past high school.
The summer before my sons soph year in hs he played on a travel team. There were three catchers on the team and two of them were also 1b guys. The deal we were told before the season started was that they would rotate around and everyone would get equal playing time. During this season my son played 3 innings a game and never got to play 1B. He got 1 or two abs a game. He quite frankly outplayed the other two guys but one of the catchers dads covered the expenses for the team. This kid played every inning of every game. When he was not catching he played first base. I never said a word. I never complained. When my son approached me about it I said "Dont go there with that BS to me. You play hard when you get the chance. You finish what you start. When this season is over and you have done what you said you were going to do then you can look at another team next year. But I dont want to hear any crying or bitc*ing."
That next year in HS he had a tremendous hs season winning player of the year in his conf as a soph. He was named first team all state. He worked his butt off and was determined never to be a player that would not be a major contributer on his team. He attended a tryout that summer for a high profile showcase team and was selected to play up with the 07 guys.
Kid will follow the lead of the people they respect. They will fall into the trap of poor poor pitiful me if you let them. Quit crying and do something about your situation. Outwork everyone else. Find solutions.
That next year in HS he had a tremendous hs season winning player of the year in his conf as a soph. He was named first team all state. He worked his butt off and was determined never to be a player that would not be a major contributer on his team. He attended a tryout that summer for a high profile showcase team and was selected to play up with the 07 guys.
Kid will follow the lead of the people they respect. They will fall into the trap of poor poor pitiful me if you let them. Quit crying and do something about your situation. Outwork everyone else. Find solutions.
Let me give you an example of HS politics in action and it has a very happy ending.
When my son was a HS senior there was guy in town forming an undercurrent movement for the removal of the existing HS Baseball coach who had been there some 30 years and loved my son and they got along famously.
A week before spring practice began the existing coach was fired due to the political undercurrent. My son came home in tears worrying who his ally would be in the final semester of his recruiting process. The AD was smart enough to do things his way--he was a very strong AD ---the AD and the Asst Principal headed up the selection committee. Since my son was the Captaint he AD asked him to be on the committee as well. Too bad for the guy fermenting the movement.The committee selected the football coach who had been a great baseball player in college.His son was also on the HS team and probably spent as much time in my home as he did in his own, The Football Caoch had been after my son for four years to get him on the football team--it never happened---the night coach got word the job was his he called me to tell me finally had my son playing for him but it wasn't the sport he wanted him for originally. LOL
Season ends and coach picks me and my son up for the awards banquet and my son becomes first player in school history to gain a major school Division I baseball scholarship.
Sometime the poltics can backfire on people. Do things right and things work out
When my son was a HS senior there was guy in town forming an undercurrent movement for the removal of the existing HS Baseball coach who had been there some 30 years and loved my son and they got along famously.
A week before spring practice began the existing coach was fired due to the political undercurrent. My son came home in tears worrying who his ally would be in the final semester of his recruiting process. The AD was smart enough to do things his way--he was a very strong AD ---the AD and the Asst Principal headed up the selection committee. Since my son was the Captaint he AD asked him to be on the committee as well. Too bad for the guy fermenting the movement.The committee selected the football coach who had been a great baseball player in college.His son was also on the HS team and probably spent as much time in my home as he did in his own, The Football Caoch had been after my son for four years to get him on the football team--it never happened---the night coach got word the job was his he called me to tell me finally had my son playing for him but it wasn't the sport he wanted him for originally. LOL
Season ends and coach picks me and my son up for the awards banquet and my son becomes first player in school history to gain a major school Division I baseball scholarship.
Sometime the poltics can backfire on people. Do things right and things work out
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
The summer before my sons soph year in hs he played on a travel team. There were three catchers on the team and two of them were also 1b guys. The deal we were told before the season started was that they would rotate around and everyone would get equal playing time. During this season my son played 3 innings a game and never got to play 1B. He got 1 or two abs a game. He quite frankly outplayed the other two guys but one of the catchers dads covered the expenses for the team. This kid played every inning of every game. When he was not catching he played first base. I never said a word. I never complained. When my son approached me about it I said "Dont go there with that BS to me. You play hard when you get the chance. You finish what you start. When this season is over and you have done what you said you were going to do then you can look at another team next year. But I dont want to hear any crying or bitc*ing."
That next year in HS he had a tremendous hs season winning player of the year in his conf as a soph. He was named first team all state. He worked his butt off and was determined never to be a player that would not be a major contributer on his team. He attended a tryout that summer for a high profile showcase team and was selected to play up with the 07 guys.
Kid will follow the lead of the people they respect. They will fall into the trap of poor poor pitiful me if you let them. Quit crying and do something about your situation. Outwork everyone else. Find solutions.
This is one of the reasons your son is so successful and will be playing at a major title contending university next year. You and your son (with guidance from you) took a negative and used it for motivation to get better. Why can't others do this?
Failure or being held back should be used as motivation - as a way to improve yourself. Instead we have parents who want to bit** and moan and cause drama and trouble.
I was 7 years old when I had to start wearing glasses. My vision was so bad I had to wear bifocals. My eye doctor told me I would never be able to play baseball with a high level of success because my eyes wouldn't allow it. I sat in that chair and I was ticked off to no end. I thought to myself I will show that sorry *** I can and will play baseball.
It took a few years but I was finally an all star in Babe Ruth, played high school ball at a high level and finally played college. Each year I went back to the eye doctor and I would make it a point to tell him how good I was doing. It wasn't easy and I looked pretty stupid early on in some at bats and people laughed at me. But I did it.
People would be amazed at what they can do if they challenge themselves. People can do it if they have the internal desire to succeed. Parents need to help kids develop that internal drive for success instead of making excuses.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Let me give you an example of HS politics in action and it has a very happy ending.
When my son was a HS senior there was guy in town forming an undercurrent movement for the removal of the existing HS Baseball coach who had been there some 30 years and loved my son and they got along famously.
A week before spring practice began the existing coach was fired due to the political undercurrent. My son came home in tears worrying who his ally would be in the final semester of his recruiting process. The AD was smart enough to do things his way--he was a very strong AD ---the AD and the Asst Principal headed up the selection committee. Since my son was the Captaint he AD asked him to be on the committee as well. Too bad for the guy fermenting the movement.The committee selected the football coach who had been a great baseball player in college.His son was also on the HS team and probably spent as much time in my home as he did in his own, The Football Caoch had been after my son for four years to get him on the football team--it never happened---the night coach got word the job was his he called me to tell me finally had my son playing for him but it wasn't the sport he wanted him for originally. LOL
Season ends and coach picks me and my son up for the awards banquet and my son becomes first player in school history to gain a major school Division I baseball scholarship.
Sometime the poltics can backfire on people. Do things right and things work out
TRHit it's great that it worked out for you and your son but I doubt the coach who got canned after 30 some years would see it that way. You didn't really say but did he deserve to be fired? I find it hard to think so since he lasted so long.
Coach
No he did not deserve it ---in fact he was in the hospital after it happened---we thought we might lose him but he overcame it all
He and I still stay in touch-he is now retired down in Florida
No he did not deserve it ---in fact he was in the hospital after it happened---we thought we might lose him but he overcame it all
He and I still stay in touch-he is now retired down in Florida
Could they trace the hospital trip back to him getting fired? If so then someone needs to string that parent up who got him fired.
Don't get me wrong it does sound like the best possible outcome and i'm glad your son got a scholarship but I feel for the older coach.
In my 9 years as head coach I have been put under a ton of heat. Luckily I had a great principal who backed me. It probably helped he took the team for one year so the team wouldn't fold and they got onto him like they did me.
Don't get me wrong it does sound like the best possible outcome and i'm glad your son got a scholarship but I feel for the older coach.
In my 9 years as head coach I have been put under a ton of heat. Luckily I had a great principal who backed me. It probably helped he took the team for one year so the team wouldn't fold and they got onto him like they did me.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coach May:
The summer before my sons soph year in hs he played on a travel team. There were three catchers on the team and two of them were also 1b guys. The deal we were told before the season started was that they would rotate around and everyone would get equal playing time. During this season my son played 3 innings a game and never got to play 1B. He got 1 or two abs a game. He quite frankly outplayed the other two guys but one of the catchers dads covered the expenses for the team. This kid played every inning of every game. When he was not catching he played first base. I never said a word. I never complained. When my son approached me about it I said "Dont go there with that BS to me. You play hard when you get the chance. You finish what you start. When this season is over and you have done what you said you were going to do then you can look at another team next year. But I dont want to hear any crying or bitc*ing."
That next year in HS he had a tremendous hs season winning player of the year in his conf as a soph. He was named first team all state. He worked his butt off and was determined never to be a player that would not be a major contributer on his team. He attended a tryout that summer for a high profile showcase team and was selected to play up with the 07 guys.
Kid will follow the lead of the people they respect. They will fall into the trap of poor poor pitiful me if you let them. Quit crying and do something about your situation. Outwork everyone else. Find solutions.
This is one of the reasons your son is so successful and will be playing at a major title contending university next year. You and your son (with guidance from you) took a negative and used it for motivation to get better. Why can't others do this?
QUOTE]
Good post. As I have told in another post, mine sat on the bench a lot on his HS team as a pitcher for two years, he wasn't even a starter all of the time. But when he went out he played to the max. I really like his HS coach and we are friends to this day, but he was just one of those that beleived strongly that HS baseball is an extra curricular activity and your time will come. I found that out son's senior year walking away with pitcher and player of the year.
He wasn't happy but he rarely complained, as he knew that our response would be the same as Coach May's, play your best when you are out there and everything will fall into place and no cryin in baseball.
We hear about players talking about the politics. Are there any coaches who found themselves on the short end of the political stick.
My son once tried to quit s****r when he was younger. I told him after the season, you don't have to come back but there is no way you will quit in the middle. He finished and never played s****r again. That's fine.
After his 10 yr old season in which he wanted to leave a team he had been with since they were rec (4yrs). I made him tell the coach, he had to be a man and let them know he was moving on. He did it with tears in his eyes but the coach was great. He gave him a card, hugged him and wished him luck. We are still friends today.
Lately I've posted and spoken to a few people privately about my son switching schools. After getting many opinions and private messages. My son stayed at his current school. It will all work out for the best and he will be a better person for having not run away from the situation. More prepared to handle the situation in college and when dad is not around.
After his 10 yr old season in which he wanted to leave a team he had been with since they were rec (4yrs). I made him tell the coach, he had to be a man and let them know he was moving on. He did it with tears in his eyes but the coach was great. He gave him a card, hugged him and wished him luck. We are still friends today.
Lately I've posted and spoken to a few people privately about my son switching schools. After getting many opinions and private messages. My son stayed at his current school. It will all work out for the best and he will be a better person for having not run away from the situation. More prepared to handle the situation in college and when dad is not around.
Is it politics when ...
... A player's dad is the coach (HS JV) and starts when no one can figure out a legitimate reason to start him, including another dad who is a former pro and a select coach placing players in college ball.
... A minor league high pick with a big signing bonus, gets promoted with weak stats over a late round pick who got the job done all season (assume the late pick is demonstrating tools/potential).
... A player's dad is the coach (HS JV) and starts when no one can figure out a legitimate reason to start him, including another dad who is a former pro and a select coach placing players in college ball.
... A minor league high pick with a big signing bonus, gets promoted with weak stats over a late round pick who got the job done all season (assume the late pick is demonstrating tools/potential).
Coach May, ain't that the truth. Find me a coach who says he has ever played an opposing coach who left his best players on the bench when the game started. I've never seen it, unless there's a disciplinary or injury issue. I'd bet coach2709 hasn't seen it either. How about any other coaches out there? Amazingly, some parents see it all the time, while coaches never see it. Are us coaches so clueless that we just don't see it, and can't judge talent? If only those parents would come out of the stands and coach our teams, we would never lose a game.quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
I have never played a team that had its best players sitting on the bench when the game started.
C'mon folks, does it make any sense at all for a coach to not put his best team possible on the field? The one thing most coaches have in common...WE WANT TO WIN! We don't go out there to screw kids out of starting positions and ruin our teams and our careers because of some big bad political conspiracy. I'll bet that for the 9 starters on my team every season, there are at least 6 or 7 disgruntled parents sitting in the stands. Am I really that bad at judging talent? If you look at my record, you would probably think I know what I'm doing.
Think about this: 100% of the coaches I know, and probably 100% of the coaches on this board have been accused of being "political" at one time or another. Does that mean 100% of us coaches are handing out political favors to undeserving players??? OF COURSE NOT!!! For goodness sake, use some common sense and think about what you are saying before you whine and cry politics.
quote:C'mon folks, does it make any sense at all for a coach to not put his best team possible on the field?
It happens alot...Politics in High School ball is a fact of life.....Sorry coaches who shouldn't be coaching....
Nobody said it's all coaches....But, it is many coaches..........
There are disgruntled parents and players and there are parents and players who get screwed over....
Does that mean 100% of the parents that "whine and cry politics" are wrong. Just curious!
Coach Knight Time, just like there are bad parents, there are bad coaches as well. Not all are saints!
Coach Knight Time, just like there are bad parents, there are bad coaches as well. Not all are saints!
It would make sense that a coach would put the best team on the field. I think where it comes into play is when you have kids of about equal talent. Then a coach might favor a family friend, a kid who plays football for him, etc.
My son is a starter and plays almost every inning and it doesn't effect him, yet I will not deny it is there for other kids.
My son is a starter and plays almost every inning and it doesn't effect him, yet I will not deny it is there for other kids.
Look we are all trying to paint this picture of politics with too big of a paint brush. There are bad parents and yes there are bad coaches.
I do refuse to think that bad coaches and politics are as bad as people think.
Coach Knighttime is right - when I look at the teams in our region they are good. They are the teams I am chasing in building my program. They have kids sign DI all the time. We pulled the upset last year against a team who had 3 kids sign with University of Louisville and another who went to a top JUCO. If they have better players on the bench then my team is screwed. I don't want to play them and that goes for almost every team in my region. If they have better players on the bench we are in trouble.
I do refuse to think that bad coaches and politics are as bad as people think.
Coach Knighttime is right - when I look at the teams in our region they are good. They are the teams I am chasing in building my program. They have kids sign DI all the time. We pulled the upset last year against a team who had 3 kids sign with University of Louisville and another who went to a top JUCO. If they have better players on the bench then my team is screwed. I don't want to play them and that goes for almost every team in my region. If they have better players on the bench we are in trouble.
what has your batting average been like in high school so far?
Starting with T ball all the way to Little league my son was on his best friends team. His best friends father was the coach each time. Needless to say when they reached the age they could be all stars his best friend was always on the all star team. Both players had equal skills. First year of little league son has a better year than best friend. Needless to say best friend makes all star team agian. Each team could only send two players and both coaches kids made the all star team. For the first time ever son was disappointed because he knew he did better then both the players and he wanted to be an all star one time. After the all star team announcement he was upset and asked me if he was ever going to make an all star team. I broke it down to him. Since I was not a coach he was going have to do so much better than the two players that they could not keep him from the all star team. Well he asked for an hitting coach. Two weeks after the season ended we hired our first hitting coach. He worked on hitting and fielding throughout the off season. It is his last year of little league and he realy wants to be an all star. Son has the season of a lifetime. Leads the team in every offensive catagroy and ends the season hitting .600. Highest in the league. He hits 320 points higher than both coaches sons. Time for all stars selections. Needless to say best friends father (head coach) nominates both coaches sons for all stars. Son not mentioned. All other coaches in the league insist on son being on the all star team. Best friends father would only nominate son if both coaches sons were also on the team. Son makes all star team. So do the other two playes. Our team was the only team to send three players to the all star team. Son ends up starting on the all star team and hitting fourth. Are there politics in baseball. Yes. I am most proud of the fact that son saw his situation and worked his *** off and did so much better than the coaches kids he could not be kept from the all star team. He was only 12 at the time.
Now he is the starting 3rd base for his HS varsity team and will pitch. Son plays every inning. Best friend is on the team and gets some playing time. Other coaches kid stopped playing baseball 3 years ago.
Son learned early about politics in baseball. He also learned out work and out play everyone and politics are not an issue. Son is still best friends with player. Wife and I were close with friends parents, but sad to say after that season we no longer are close.
Now he is the starting 3rd base for his HS varsity team and will pitch. Son plays every inning. Best friend is on the team and gets some playing time. Other coaches kid stopped playing baseball 3 years ago.
Son learned early about politics in baseball. He also learned out work and out play everyone and politics are not an issue. Son is still best friends with player. Wife and I were close with friends parents, but sad to say after that season we no longer are close.
Sorry, I shouldn't have exaggerated. I think only 95% of parents that whine and cry politics are wrong. I also believe 95% of the coaches do not play politics and are good people doing the right thing. However, 95% of coaches get accused of playing politics, so something doesn't quite add up.quote:Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
Does that mean 100% of the parents that "whine and cry politics" are wrong. Just curious!
Coach Knight Time, just like there are bad parents, there are bad coaches as well. Not all are saints!
With all due respect, what makes you as much or more qualified than the coach to determine whether the two kids have equal talent? If you think the two players have equal talent, but the coach thinks one of them has more talent, or better instincts, or better work ethic, or performs better in practice, or has more experience, or is better mentally, etc, etc, etc., who is more qualified to make the choice? You or the coach? Should the coach pass out ballots and have the parents vote on which player should start?quote:Originally posted by bb1:
I think where it comes into play is when you have kids of about equal talent.
I hate generalizing but the coaches on this site (generally speaking) are in denial. There are loads of obnoxious parents. And there's a decent percentage of coaches that play politics (not just 5%). Just because the teams you play against have their 5 or 6 studs on the roster every year doesn't mean they don't do it. In my experience, politics usually rears its head further down the roster. And I can provide several easy examples just in my own experience.
Yet another example to add to the hundreds I'm sure the parents here could come up with...At our high school last year a couple kids tried out for the Freshman team as 8th graders. Both play the same position (neither pitch or catch). One kid is head and shoulders better than the other which would be obvious to any experienced baseball person. You might ask...how do I know this? Both kids play on my summer team so I know their games quite well.
Well the weaker player gets selected for the freshman team and the better player is left off. Why I asked? A couple assistants and helpers at the tryouts informed me the better kid performed much better during tryouts just as I expected he would. The head coach took the other kid without explanation. Could it be because his parents both work at the school? Nah. Couldn't be could it?
Yet another example to add to the hundreds I'm sure the parents here could come up with...At our high school last year a couple kids tried out for the Freshman team as 8th graders. Both play the same position (neither pitch or catch). One kid is head and shoulders better than the other which would be obvious to any experienced baseball person. You might ask...how do I know this? Both kids play on my summer team so I know their games quite well.
Well the weaker player gets selected for the freshman team and the better player is left off. Why I asked? A couple assistants and helpers at the tryouts informed me the better kid performed much better during tryouts just as I expected he would. The head coach took the other kid without explanation. Could it be because his parents both work at the school? Nah. Couldn't be could it?
Denial??? Are you kidding me??? I agree there are bad coaches out there who make bad decisions for bad reasons. They exist and I won't argue that. BUT the bigger problem are the parents who are clueless. They make our job almost impossible.
How many times have you had someone sprinting to the board of education wanting you fired because you put so and so on the bench because he wasn't getting the job done.
How many times have you had someone tell people in the community to not have their kid play baseball or have them transfer schools because the coach is a moron. Especially if that parent's kid starts.
How many times have you had someone get on the radio and call you fat and stupid because they didn't like you.
How many times have you had someone come into your job and yell and cuss at you because their kid wasn't playing.
How many times have you had an anonymous letter show up in your mailbox saying the things that you do are stupid and not working.
How many times do you have someone peering over your shoulder hoping to find you do the smallest thing so they can blow it out of proportion and try to get you fired.
Yes coaches make bad decisions but let me ask you this - do you want us to give your son another chance when he makes a mistake or cut him? That is the situation coaches face. If we make a mistake idiot parents start calling for our heads. I gave a hit and run one time and the batter stood there and took it. Needless to say the runner was out. The batter's dad said "we need to get a coach who knows what he's doing". Well he was one our better contact hitters - he even told me that like the week before - he froze. This batter choked in a big spot. Did his dad wait to find out all the information or did he start trying to rile things up? When I can hear that comment in the third base box then it's said pretty loud and meant for effect.
The problem with politics is that it's rampant in the lower levels - little league, babe ruth, whatever - because you have daddy's calling the shots. They will favor their son over other kids. That is why they took the coaching job. It's rare to find a dad who coaches because he wants to help out. Now that some parents have been through that for several years they will automatically think that politics happen in high school.
I do not think politics is that big of a deal on the high school level. I am not going to be naieve and say it doesn't happen because it does happen.
Most - not all but most - high school coaches are well trained. They played at some higher level - college or pro (my staff is made up of myself - small college player, my assistant - DI college player, my pitching coach DI and AA player). High school coaches usually work as an assistant under another coach to get experience. High school coaches go to clinics, get videos, books and network to try and find out more information to help their players.
So after all that training, experience and hard work a parent who never played the game thinks they know more and wants to cuss, scream and try to get this guy fired because his son isn't playing???? It's ridiculous.
Now after all that I am not talking about EVERY single parent. The ones I describe are the very few. Every year and on every team you will have a small group of parents who want to help and will let the coach do his job. Ther will be a bigger group who just show and watch the game. There will be a very small group who cause trouble because they are idiots and they love to prove it.
YHF I know you are going to be offended by this and really it wasn't my intention although it does look that way. It's not about denial because every good coach out there knows there a few who ruin it for all coaches. The bad coaches are idiots just like the idiot parents. We just need to find a way to keep these people from reproducing and life will get better.
Maybe some coaches are in denial but I don't think I am. I just think there are more idiot parents who do more damage than there are idiot coaches who do the damage they do.
It may hurt a kids feelings if he sits on the bench but he can learn a lesson from it. But a coach can lose his job or have his reputation ruined becasue someone doesn't like the job he does. It's ridiculous.
How many times have you had someone sprinting to the board of education wanting you fired because you put so and so on the bench because he wasn't getting the job done.
How many times have you had someone tell people in the community to not have their kid play baseball or have them transfer schools because the coach is a moron. Especially if that parent's kid starts.
How many times have you had someone get on the radio and call you fat and stupid because they didn't like you.
How many times have you had someone come into your job and yell and cuss at you because their kid wasn't playing.
How many times have you had an anonymous letter show up in your mailbox saying the things that you do are stupid and not working.
How many times do you have someone peering over your shoulder hoping to find you do the smallest thing so they can blow it out of proportion and try to get you fired.
Yes coaches make bad decisions but let me ask you this - do you want us to give your son another chance when he makes a mistake or cut him? That is the situation coaches face. If we make a mistake idiot parents start calling for our heads. I gave a hit and run one time and the batter stood there and took it. Needless to say the runner was out. The batter's dad said "we need to get a coach who knows what he's doing". Well he was one our better contact hitters - he even told me that like the week before - he froze. This batter choked in a big spot. Did his dad wait to find out all the information or did he start trying to rile things up? When I can hear that comment in the third base box then it's said pretty loud and meant for effect.
The problem with politics is that it's rampant in the lower levels - little league, babe ruth, whatever - because you have daddy's calling the shots. They will favor their son over other kids. That is why they took the coaching job. It's rare to find a dad who coaches because he wants to help out. Now that some parents have been through that for several years they will automatically think that politics happen in high school.
I do not think politics is that big of a deal on the high school level. I am not going to be naieve and say it doesn't happen because it does happen.
Most - not all but most - high school coaches are well trained. They played at some higher level - college or pro (my staff is made up of myself - small college player, my assistant - DI college player, my pitching coach DI and AA player). High school coaches usually work as an assistant under another coach to get experience. High school coaches go to clinics, get videos, books and network to try and find out more information to help their players.
So after all that training, experience and hard work a parent who never played the game thinks they know more and wants to cuss, scream and try to get this guy fired because his son isn't playing???? It's ridiculous.
Now after all that I am not talking about EVERY single parent. The ones I describe are the very few. Every year and on every team you will have a small group of parents who want to help and will let the coach do his job. Ther will be a bigger group who just show and watch the game. There will be a very small group who cause trouble because they are idiots and they love to prove it.
YHF I know you are going to be offended by this and really it wasn't my intention although it does look that way. It's not about denial because every good coach out there knows there a few who ruin it for all coaches. The bad coaches are idiots just like the idiot parents. We just need to find a way to keep these people from reproducing and life will get better.
Maybe some coaches are in denial but I don't think I am. I just think there are more idiot parents who do more damage than there are idiot coaches who do the damage they do.
It may hurt a kids feelings if he sits on the bench but he can learn a lesson from it. But a coach can lose his job or have his reputation ruined becasue someone doesn't like the job he does. It's ridiculous.
How many times have you heard a player or parent say he got cut, or didn't make varsity, or doesn't start because he just isn't good enough? Plain and simple, "my kid is not as good as the other guys." The other players are simply better, or at least it's possible.
Now, how many times have you heard a player or parent use the politics excuse? Some other excuse?
It's tough to accept reality. It's much easier to make excuses and protect the ego.
Now, how many times have you heard a player or parent use the politics excuse? Some other excuse?
It's tough to accept reality. It's much easier to make excuses and protect the ego.
quote:Originally posted by YHF:
I hate generalizing but the coaches on this site (generally speaking) are in denial. There are loads of obnoxious parents. And there's a decent percentage of coaches that play politics (not just 5%). Just because the teams you play against have their 5 or 6 studs on the roster every year doesn't mean they don't do it. In my experience, politics usually rears its head further down the roster. And I can provide several easy examples just in my own experience.
Yet another example to add to the hundreds I'm sure the parents here could come up with...At our high school last year a couple kids tried out for the Freshman team as 8th graders. Both play the same position (neither pitch or catch). One kid is head and shoulders better than the other which would be obvious to any experienced baseball person. You might ask...how do I know this? Both kids play on my summer team so I know their games quite well.
Well the weaker player gets selected for the freshman team and the better player is left off. Why I asked? A couple assistants and helpers at the tryouts informed me the better kid performed much better during tryouts just as I expected he would. The head coach took the other kid without explanation. Could it be because his parents both work at the school? Nah. Couldn't be could it?
YHF, taking shots at coaches (generally speaking) and saying we are in denial really shows your ignorance. Why aren't you coaching high school baseball? You are obviously more qualified than that freshman high school coach because you watched those two 8th graders play summer ball when they were what, 12 years old? They tried out for a high school team as 13 year old middle schoolers, and you want to make judgements about which one got cut and which didn't. And, that freshman coach's assistants confided in you and told you the coach played the politics card? Wow, you are special.
And exactly what percentage of HS coaches do you think are corrupt? 25%, 50%, 75%? At least 95% of us get accused of being political, so is it at least 95%? Where do you draw the line? My statement about parents is that of those parents who make the accusations, 95% are wrong. I never said 95% are bad, nor do I come close to thinking the majority of parents are bad. You are exactly the reason HS coaches get run out of the profession. You are misinformed and misguided.
Pity the kid who happens to be the son of a school employee, coach, booster club officer, financial supporter, volunteer field groomer, concession stand cashier, coach hand shaker, you name it. Poor kid never stands a chance of getting due credit. If that kid makes the team or makes the starting lineup, it's gotta be politics! He couldn't possibly be better than Joe Schmo's kid!
quote:How many times have you had an anonymous letter show up in your mailbox saying the things that you do are stupid and not working.
At least if they run to the administration or AD there is a face and name to your accuser.
letters signed concerned parent or parents or not signed should be discarded with the rest of the trash.
KnightTime - you have made good points. It seems to me that the onus is on the player to rise above things regardless of the situation because that is all they really have control over. The player can only control how they act - not what the coach will do. The following are all possibilities at any given school:
1) No politics exist - the players, parents, and coaches are all in harmony about how the team is run (least likely scenario imho).
2) No politics exist - the players and/or parents of kids who are not starting use this as the reason however.
3) Politics exist - the coach plays the 9 best players regardless (most likely scenario imho).
4) Politics exist - the coach is influenced in some way to alter the lineup for reasons other than baseball ability.
Politics is a broad word and can mean many things. Some equate it with donating money to buy influence which implies corruption and I don't believe that happens very often (if at all?). Other forms are more subtle. When kids move from their summer teams to freshman tryouts for the first time for example, many of the summer coaches/parents give their take to the high school coach on who they think are the players and what positions they are most suited for. I don't believe parents should try to influence things like this. Let the coach determine things by what he sees in practice/try outs. I think parents should stay completely out of things (i.e., talking to the coach about baseball decisions) other than supporting their sons to handle things the best they can. Thus, if a parent is working with the booster club and needs to interact with the coach for a financial or other reason, it is not appropriate at that time to start discussing the pros or cons of one player versus another imho.
I also believe parents over-value things their own kids do best and under-value things other kids do well - that type of thinking is political imho. What really may happen in reality is the coach has a different baseball value system than any given parent. He may value power and size over speed and the ability to get on base. He may value a light-hitting shortstop who can play outstanding defense over a better hitter. Similarly, he may value a better hitter at shortstop over a kid who is a better defensive player. These are not political decisions but legitimate baseball decisions. If your shortstop son is sitting on the bench because a better hitter is in the lineup, no need to sit in the stands and whine about how your son is so much better defensively. In that scenario, the kid needs to learn how to hit better and be ready when his number is called.
1) No politics exist - the players, parents, and coaches are all in harmony about how the team is run (least likely scenario imho).
2) No politics exist - the players and/or parents of kids who are not starting use this as the reason however.
3) Politics exist - the coach plays the 9 best players regardless (most likely scenario imho).
4) Politics exist - the coach is influenced in some way to alter the lineup for reasons other than baseball ability.
Politics is a broad word and can mean many things. Some equate it with donating money to buy influence which implies corruption and I don't believe that happens very often (if at all?). Other forms are more subtle. When kids move from their summer teams to freshman tryouts for the first time for example, many of the summer coaches/parents give their take to the high school coach on who they think are the players and what positions they are most suited for. I don't believe parents should try to influence things like this. Let the coach determine things by what he sees in practice/try outs. I think parents should stay completely out of things (i.e., talking to the coach about baseball decisions) other than supporting their sons to handle things the best they can. Thus, if a parent is working with the booster club and needs to interact with the coach for a financial or other reason, it is not appropriate at that time to start discussing the pros or cons of one player versus another imho.
I also believe parents over-value things their own kids do best and under-value things other kids do well - that type of thinking is political imho. What really may happen in reality is the coach has a different baseball value system than any given parent. He may value power and size over speed and the ability to get on base. He may value a light-hitting shortstop who can play outstanding defense over a better hitter. Similarly, he may value a better hitter at shortstop over a kid who is a better defensive player. These are not political decisions but legitimate baseball decisions. If your shortstop son is sitting on the bench because a better hitter is in the lineup, no need to sit in the stands and whine about how your son is so much better defensively. In that scenario, the kid needs to learn how to hit better and be ready when his number is called.
quote:KnightTime
If you knew my sons coaches I think you might understand more. Lets put it this way. A kid the coaches friends kid bats .142 and plays every inning of every game. Do you think there was politics involved in that one? You betcha. Now, I don't go to practices but I do go to games. What was it Allen Iverson said " Practice we're talking about practice". If you don't produce in games you could look great in practice but it doesn't matter. That is just one example there are more.
There are good coaches and bad coaches and I don't believe any one of them are out to lose or hurt a kid. However, favoritism, politics, whatever you want to call it does exist just like Santa Claus.
And it happens a lot more than 95% of the time, it's human nature, if you personally like one kid over another and their abilities are bascially the same ANYONE not just a coach will go with the person they like. Maybe you hate the parents and take it out on the kid. It happens.
There are good parents and pain in the blank parents. There are those that might run to administation which a good administrator can and should stand behind their coaches on almost all issues and all of the ones that are about playing time.
I myself have always told my son you have to earn your playing time nothing will be given to you and guess what? He earns it by working his butt off. Last year my son was allowed to throw way to many pitches in an important game. I did go to the coach about that. It didn't go well on either side but if I hadn't done it and my son gets hurt I'd never forgive myself.
Here is the point I have been trying to make. What good does it do to gripe about politics? What good does it do your son for you to gripe about politics to him? If you are in a situation where you believe your son is the victim of politics what do you tell him? How does he see you approaching this situation?
Does he go out and work his butt off to overcome the situation? Does he do what he has to do to make himself the type of player that can not be denied playing time? Does he keep a good attitude and continue to work at the game? Or does he follow the lead of the complaining parent?
In every walk of life their is politics. In some walks of life there are more politics than others. In some hs programs the coaches simply play the best players. In some hs programs there might be players that play over other players because of politics. I dont know of any situations like this personally but I guess it happens. If this is the case what are you going to do about it? Complain in front of your son and make the whole situation a miserable experience? Or are you going to help him find solutions by simply outworking and out playing his competition?
Again in all my years of coaching at the hs level I have never had a parent of a hard working dedicated player complain about anything. The ones that complain are the ones that invest very little but expect alot in return. People can complain about politics all they want to. What good does that do? Overcome the situation and stay positive. Or use it as the excuse on why you are not playing and sit around and be miserable. The choice is yours to make. Many make the choice as well for their kid.
Does he go out and work his butt off to overcome the situation? Does he do what he has to do to make himself the type of player that can not be denied playing time? Does he keep a good attitude and continue to work at the game? Or does he follow the lead of the complaining parent?
In every walk of life their is politics. In some walks of life there are more politics than others. In some hs programs the coaches simply play the best players. In some hs programs there might be players that play over other players because of politics. I dont know of any situations like this personally but I guess it happens. If this is the case what are you going to do about it? Complain in front of your son and make the whole situation a miserable experience? Or are you going to help him find solutions by simply outworking and out playing his competition?
Again in all my years of coaching at the hs level I have never had a parent of a hard working dedicated player complain about anything. The ones that complain are the ones that invest very little but expect alot in return. People can complain about politics all they want to. What good does that do? Overcome the situation and stay positive. Or use it as the excuse on why you are not playing and sit around and be miserable. The choice is yours to make. Many make the choice as well for their kid.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
YHF I know you are going to be offended by this and really it wasn't my intention although it does look that way. It's not about denial because every good coach out there knows there a few who ruin it for all coaches. The bad coaches are idiots just like the idiot parents. We just need to find a way to keep these people from reproducing and life will get better.
Maybe some coaches are in denial but I don't think I am. I just think there are more idiot parents who do more damage than there are idiot coaches who do the damage they do. Agrees whole heartedly
It may hurt a kids feelings if he sits on the bench but he can learn a lesson from it. But a coach can lose his job or have his reputation ruined becasue someone doesn't like the job he does. It's ridiculous.
A little snip snip just might help this situation...LOL. If only!
The part about a kid learning a lesson opens up another complete can of worms. Parents today don't want their kids to "learn a lesson". They want them to be the starter. Again, I referred to this disease earlier as being "Helicopter parents". Heaven forbid that lil Johnny learn to sit on a bench and be a good...good teammate and role player. A role where he can genuinely learn to encourage the kid in front of him to be the best he can for the team. A role where during the season he can learn self-fortitude about working harder during practice or classroom....to actually earn the spot so as not to put the team in jeopardy of losing during a close game, etc. I wish I could get on television and tell parents how much of an injustice they are doing to their kids by trying to intercept their children's let downs and challenges! They are not preparing them adequately for this thing called life.
These same set of parents who can't handle seeing lil Johnny on the bench truly don't care if the coach loses his job or his reputation gets tarnished. To them, it's sweet revenge and justification for overlooking their son!
My son leaves next fall to college to begin earning a Secondary Education degree because he has always wanted to be a Teacher and a baseball Coach. The Coach he now has is one of many Role models in his life he truly admires. It makes me cringe to know he too will face these same kind of parents one day. 4 things (and I'm sure many more will come to mind eventually) that I plan on sharing with him before he begins to coach is: 1) Always play the best 9 so you may win games, 2) never be guided by the amount of money a parent or booster club has to offer, 3) if possible, get the Principal to always back his decision(s) as a Coach for those times a disgruntled mom or dad come hollering, and 4) teach these young men how to be men in life, i.e. integrity, character, leadership, Christ, etc. etc.
gimages...I truly loved your story you shared with us. To me, that's how you teach a life lesson about overcoming obstacles and challenges. Trash the pity party approach and come up with a plan to triumph and overcome! When achieved (eventually) it is much more sweeter to sit back and watch all that has gone into the journey.
One last thing (and I don't mean to be all over the place with my thoughts) but this thing about 2 kids with the same (parent perceived) talent level where 1 kid is say a Sr. and the other a Jr. and the Jr. gets the nod. If in fact they ARE equal, then a coach would be crazy to not start the Jr. just due to this kid getting stronger, faster, etc. and be able to help his team even more the next year. Hello, McFly?!
OK. I'm done!