Coach May,
That is the problem. I have caught myself a few times venting my frustration when my son is around and have seen how it effects him and it is wrong. I try extremely hard now not to show it at all when he is around. He knows what he has to do to get playing time and he does it. Listening to me just ruins the experience and his enjoyment of playing ball.
Kids need to have a great attitude and have fun. Not listen to parents complain about this or that, they should not feel entitled to anything but a chance to work hard and earn a spot.
bb1, I catch myself, too. Wanting to complain about other kids' parents, but those kids are 2Bs friends, so I try to keep my mouth shut. Sometimes it's hard.
Thanks, Coach. That was us last year. This year, not so much. The field is the proving ground.
A small point for parents who see games but not practices - sometimes it's not all about the bat. It's also about the leather, baby! A favorite quote from Brooks Robinson: "It's a pretty sure thing that the player's bat is what speaks loudest when it's contract time, but sometimes the glove has the last word."
I've taken the afternoon off work so I can hang outfield signs before our home opener tomorrow. Someone will complain about their sponsor's sign being crooked. Did anyone offer to help? No. Do I care whether or not they help? No. It gets me in to see practice! It's a beautiful day for baseball.
quote:Pity the kid who happens to be the son of a school employee, coach, booster club officer, financial supporter, volunteer field groomer, concession stand cashier, coach hand shaker, you name it. Poor kid never stands a chance of getting due credit. If that kid makes the team or makes the starting lineup, it's gotta be politics! He couldn't possibly be better than Joe Schmo's kid!
Thanks, Coach. That was us last year. This year, not so much. The field is the proving ground.
A small point for parents who see games but not practices - sometimes it's not all about the bat. It's also about the leather, baby! A favorite quote from Brooks Robinson: "It's a pretty sure thing that the player's bat is what speaks loudest when it's contract time, but sometimes the glove has the last word."
I've taken the afternoon off work so I can hang outfield signs before our home opener tomorrow. Someone will complain about their sponsor's sign being crooked. Did anyone offer to help? No. Do I care whether or not they help? No. It gets me in to see practice! It's a beautiful day for baseball.
quote:One last thing (and I don't mean to be all over the place with my thoughts) but this thing about 2 kids with the same (parent perceived) talent level where 1 kid is say a Sr. and the other a Jr. and the Jr. gets the nod. If in fact they ARE equal, then a coach would be crazy to not start the Jr. just due to this kid getting stronger, faster, etc. and be able to help his team even more the next year. Hello, McFly?!
In that scenario coach, a young man who has been in your program for the four years, busted his butt and earned a starting spot, will be penalized because he is a senior. The kid who has been in your program and busted his butt three years and has equal talent to the senior but starts because he is a junior. What ever happened to wait your turn, or you had to beat the senior out. Wow, I would hate to be a senior in that program.
Valid point balk. Thanks for the perspective.
Guess it shows the kind of tough decisions these baseball coaches have to make annually doesn't it?
Guess it shows the kind of tough decisions these baseball coaches have to make annually doesn't it?
When two players are pretty equal it's not that difficult: you let them both play some games and settle it on the field. That's why if a player can play several different positions he enhances his chances of being on the field.
(When camping you don't have to be able to outrun the bear; you only need to be able to outrun your camping partner)
(When camping you don't have to be able to outrun the bear; you only need to be able to outrun your camping partner)
quote:Originally posted by KnightTime:
YHF, taking shots at coaches (generally speaking) and saying we are in denial really shows your ignorance. Why aren't you coaching high school baseball? You are obviously more qualified than that freshman high school coach because you watched those two 8th graders play summer ball when they were what, 12 years old? They tried out for a high school team as 13 year old middle schoolers, and you want to make judgements about which one got cut and which didn't. And, that freshman coach's assistants confided in you and told you the coach played the politics card? Wow, you are special.
And exactly what percentage of HS coaches do you think are corrupt? 25%, 50%, 75%? At least 95% of us get accused of being political, so is it at least 95%? Where do you draw the line? My statement about parents is that of those parents who make the accusations, 95% are wrong. I never said 95% are bad, nor do I come close to thinking the majority of parents are bad. You are exactly the reason HS coaches get run out of the profession. You are misinformed and misguided.
Pity the kid who happens to be the son of a school employee, coach, booster club officer, financial supporter, volunteer field groomer, concession stand cashier, coach hand shaker, you name it. Poor kid never stands a chance of getting due credit. If that kid makes the team or makes the starting lineup, it's gotta be politics! He couldn't possibly be better than Joe Schmo's kid!
Man you guys are really defensive. Dost thou protest too much?
The point is, just because you don't favor one kid over another doesn't mean it doesn't happen pretty often other places. There are a lot more bad parents than there are bad coaches for two reasons...(1) there are simply more parents than coaches in the system, and (2) parents have a vested interest in their sons making the team so they don't see things that an uninvolved person will see.
Human nature being what it is, many parents can only see their kids as good players and other kids as not as good. Coaches don't generally have those issues. But what about the times when coaches have relationships with parents of kids trying out for their teams or when the kid has a parent who's an administrator at the school? Human nature being what it is, it's hard to cut a kid that you know even if he's not good enough to make the roster otherwise. So what you're saying is that coaches 95% of coaches !!!always!!! defy human nature and cut the kid they know and keep the kid they don't know. That's a pretty remarkable record if true. Do you really think that's true?
You can blow off the example I gave if you want but I didn't have a horse in that race. At the very least, since I'm close friends with the parents of the kid who made the team (the obviously weaker player) if anything I would have been rooting for him. I coached them for summer ball and fall ball in 2006 then in February 2007 when they tried out for freshman ball you think I shouldn't have known what the outcome should be. That's why my first questions to the assistants were what happened at the tryouts (it's possible the better player just didn't perform well or didn't hustle or whatever and that would explain it). When it was obvious the better player did really well at tryouts, it became obvious what happened. And I'm not sure why knowing other coaches in the area makes me special but thanks. I have good relationships with a number of high school coaches in our area. Is that unusual?
You high school coaches know who the better players are at other schools. And you look at the opposing coaches and assume they're playing it 100% straight like you are. But maybe they're not. Maybe the 10th man or 15th man on the roster didn't deserve to be there and some other kid did? That type of politics is the most common kind and it's something you wouldn't notice at another school. For those of you that play it straight 100% of the time, I congratulate you. For those of you that would cut a friend's son and keep another player, again I congratulate you on your commitment to your team. You do a great service to the game.
This is the way I look at it.
For us, HS baseball had very little to do in the big picture. While son was not spending lots of time in the HS game and some of you would have been very upset
, we used the fall and summer season to play in front of who was important. The coaches who recruited my son didn't go to one HS game. Showcases, tournies, summer travel, etc. where he put in significant innnings got him a college scholarship, not HS. Senior year a bit different as it was his draft year. I think that may be why he was used the way he was as a pitcher, and in looking back I am happy he didn't put in time he didn't have to. We hadn't been to a regional in years, the buck stopped when season did. After 9 years, tehy finally went to a regional son's senior year.
I was the fundraising chair person for 3 years and worked my butt off. When I heard parents complaining their sons sat, I knew it wasn't due to politics because a parent was more helpful than another. The politics were that he played players because most likely it would be the only time that they would ever play, no chance after HS. He also knew that we knew HS ball wasn't going to make or break our player. As a tenured school employee his job was secure. Did he always play the best 9, maybe not to some of you, but maybe to him. Doesn't make him a bad coach.
If you are spending too much time being angry about others playing more than your son due to politics, or any politics, or maybe you seeit as poilitcs and it's not really, then go out and hook him up with a good off season travel team, showcases, and make sure he works hard to prepare for those off season important things that will make a difference. If you state that he (or if you are aplayer stating as such)can't make those type of teams, than maybe you got to consider whether it's really politics or not. JMO.
For us, HS baseball had very little to do in the big picture. While son was not spending lots of time in the HS game and some of you would have been very upset
I was the fundraising chair person for 3 years and worked my butt off. When I heard parents complaining their sons sat, I knew it wasn't due to politics because a parent was more helpful than another. The politics were that he played players because most likely it would be the only time that they would ever play, no chance after HS. He also knew that we knew HS ball wasn't going to make or break our player. As a tenured school employee his job was secure. Did he always play the best 9, maybe not to some of you, but maybe to him. Doesn't make him a bad coach.
If you are spending too much time being angry about others playing more than your son due to politics, or any politics, or maybe you seeit as poilitcs and it's not really, then go out and hook him up with a good off season travel team, showcases, and make sure he works hard to prepare for those off season important things that will make a difference. If you state that he (or if you are aplayer stating as such)can't make those type of teams, than maybe you got to consider whether it's really politics or not. JMO.
quote:Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:quote:One last thing (and I don't mean to be all over the place with my thoughts) but this thing about 2 kids with the same (parent perceived) talent level where 1 kid is say a Sr. and the other a Jr. and the Jr. gets the nod. If in fact they ARE equal, then a coach would be crazy to not start the Jr. just due to this kid getting stronger, faster, etc. and be able to help his team even more the next year. Hello, McFly?!
In that scenario coach, a young man who has been in your program for the four years, busted his butt and earned a starting spot, will be penalized because he is a senior. The kid who has been in your program and busted his butt three years and has equal talent to the senior but starts because he is a junior. What ever happened to wait your turn, or you had to beat the senior out. Wow, I would hate to be a senior in that program.
Just curious if this is the norm for other coaches on this board.
At our school, you beat out a senior by "beating him out", and not by a shoestring, but by a bunch. To me, that's being a good coach and showing loyalty.
IMO, anything else would be an injustice to that senior.
Do you see where this type of topic always leads? More and more excuses and more and more reasons to be a victim.
What happens when the Booster Club Presidents son plays on the team? What happens when the coaches son plays on the team? What happens when a kid parents are good friends with the coach? There are about 5,000 more scenarios you can post on here.
When people sit around and look for reasons to justify whey their kid is not on the field they are not spending that energy towards getting on the field. What is even more sad about this is the kid is doing the same thing. He listens to mom and dad talk this junk and it spoils his attitude and his love of the game. What goos does any of this junk actually do for the player?
How the players perform will dictate who plays and who does not. If two players are close in ability thetn it will come down to who gets the job done in the games. Who works the hardest in practice. Who is the better team mate. Who is the better student. Who deserves it the most? That will be the kid that ultimately will settle in as the starter. Maybe they both rotate all year long. Maybe one of them ends up winning the posistion and the other one beats someone else out that is not getting it done.
The parents concern is their child. The coaches concern is all the kids and the entire program. Parents that look for excuses and harp on politics never enjoy the hs experience. And most of them end up making it a miserable experience for their child. That is a fact.
I kicked the Booster Club Presidents son off the team one year for an altercation in the parking lot after practice. The decision on what to do was left up to me and I did what a felt was best for the program. He and his entire family hate me to this day. I put a kid on the JV who's dad was a life long friend of mine. He transferred out of our program and his dad has not talked to me in 2 years. His family had nothing but bad things to say about me. I cut a teachers son who also coached our girls varsity basketball team. She and her whole family hate me to this day. I told my oldest son if he came out his Jr year he was going to be cut. He ran track. He worked in the off season and made the team his Sr year. He played 3 innings and got 5 abs. He has wonderful memories of being a part of our 25-3 Conference Championship team.
You can blame the coach. You can blame the teacher. You can blame the police. You can blame the judge. You can blame the government. You can blame whoever you want to blame. Heck you can go through life and blame everyone for everything. But the bottom line is it it up to you. When you start believing that it is up to everyone else to determine your fate you will be a bitter person that no one wants to be around.
Prove the coach wrong. Make the best out of your situation and allow your child to enjoy being a part of the team. If he is good enough to play at the next level he can play on a good showcase team. He can attend a showcase camp. He can overcome whatever is thrown in his way. IF - the parent does not spoil his love of the game by constantly making him a victim. My goodness dont we have enough of that already in our society?
What happens when the Booster Club Presidents son plays on the team? What happens when the coaches son plays on the team? What happens when a kid parents are good friends with the coach? There are about 5,000 more scenarios you can post on here.
When people sit around and look for reasons to justify whey their kid is not on the field they are not spending that energy towards getting on the field. What is even more sad about this is the kid is doing the same thing. He listens to mom and dad talk this junk and it spoils his attitude and his love of the game. What goos does any of this junk actually do for the player?
How the players perform will dictate who plays and who does not. If two players are close in ability thetn it will come down to who gets the job done in the games. Who works the hardest in practice. Who is the better team mate. Who is the better student. Who deserves it the most? That will be the kid that ultimately will settle in as the starter. Maybe they both rotate all year long. Maybe one of them ends up winning the posistion and the other one beats someone else out that is not getting it done.
The parents concern is their child. The coaches concern is all the kids and the entire program. Parents that look for excuses and harp on politics never enjoy the hs experience. And most of them end up making it a miserable experience for their child. That is a fact.
I kicked the Booster Club Presidents son off the team one year for an altercation in the parking lot after practice. The decision on what to do was left up to me and I did what a felt was best for the program. He and his entire family hate me to this day. I put a kid on the JV who's dad was a life long friend of mine. He transferred out of our program and his dad has not talked to me in 2 years. His family had nothing but bad things to say about me. I cut a teachers son who also coached our girls varsity basketball team. She and her whole family hate me to this day. I told my oldest son if he came out his Jr year he was going to be cut. He ran track. He worked in the off season and made the team his Sr year. He played 3 innings and got 5 abs. He has wonderful memories of being a part of our 25-3 Conference Championship team.
You can blame the coach. You can blame the teacher. You can blame the police. You can blame the judge. You can blame the government. You can blame whoever you want to blame. Heck you can go through life and blame everyone for everything. But the bottom line is it it up to you. When you start believing that it is up to everyone else to determine your fate you will be a bitter person that no one wants to be around.
Prove the coach wrong. Make the best out of your situation and allow your child to enjoy being a part of the team. If he is good enough to play at the next level he can play on a good showcase team. He can attend a showcase camp. He can overcome whatever is thrown in his way. IF - the parent does not spoil his love of the game by constantly making him a victim. My goodness dont we have enough of that already in our society?
TPM
All would be well and good if that scenario was a possibility. In our area the high school coaches coach the summer teams. If you don't play for them then you are bascially not wanted the next year. Will they cut you? Probably not but you won't play anything but your grade level if you play. My son does not know this but if he is not put on the summer team he has earned by the coaches then I will ask him if he would like to play somewhere else for the summer. He will let the coaches know that he wants to face the best competition he can and hopefully they will understand. If not there is nothing we can do about it.
Thats-a-balk,
I couldn't agree with you more on that. I've always told my son that he needs to be a lot better than an upper classman to beat him out. All things being equal the older player has earned the right to play.
All would be well and good if that scenario was a possibility. In our area the high school coaches coach the summer teams. If you don't play for them then you are bascially not wanted the next year. Will they cut you? Probably not but you won't play anything but your grade level if you play. My son does not know this but if he is not put on the summer team he has earned by the coaches then I will ask him if he would like to play somewhere else for the summer. He will let the coaches know that he wants to face the best competition he can and hopefully they will understand. If not there is nothing we can do about it.
Thats-a-balk,
I couldn't agree with you more on that. I've always told my son that he needs to be a lot better than an upper classman to beat him out. All things being equal the older player has earned the right to play.
Coach May,
I understand exactly what you are saying and I wish we were in your area. Sounds like you run a very fair program. You are right we can't dwell on things we don't have control over. Take care of the things that we do and the rest will take care of itself.
I am sorry you lost friends over doing the right thing. It should never come to that. When my son left his competitive team my relationship with the coach was strained but it was strong enough to bend but not break and we are good friends today.
That all being said we are debating whether politics exists and to say it does not is just wrong. It does exist in all walks of life and I think you are saying how we chose to deal with it will either make or break us. Agreed.
I understand exactly what you are saying and I wish we were in your area. Sounds like you run a very fair program. You are right we can't dwell on things we don't have control over. Take care of the things that we do and the rest will take care of itself.
I am sorry you lost friends over doing the right thing. It should never come to that. When my son left his competitive team my relationship with the coach was strained but it was strong enough to bend but not break and we are good friends today.
That all being said we are debating whether politics exists and to say it does not is just wrong. It does exist in all walks of life and I think you are saying how we chose to deal with it will either make or break us. Agreed.
bb1
When you do the right thing and you lose "friends" you are only losing people you have met
Most people can only count their TRUE friends on the five fingers of one hand
When you do the right thing and you lose "friends" you are only losing people you have met
Most people can only count their TRUE friends on the five fingers of one hand
bb1,
Let me ask you this. What type of competition do you play, showcases, tournies, exposure? Is this a local thing, regional, national?
Your son SHOULD be facing the best competition he can and if that is not with his summer team (with his HS coach you apparently don't like), you need to make a change for the summer.
Let me ask you this. What type of competition do you play, showcases, tournies, exposure? Is this a local thing, regional, national?
Your son SHOULD be facing the best competition he can and if that is not with his summer team (with his HS coach you apparently don't like), you need to make a change for the summer.
TPM
Last year was all local. He was invited to play with a travel team that did get seen a lot. But was not in the budget or politically correct. Which is really my point if he is not on the upper team with his high school he will play summer somewhere else to play against the best competition and get some exposure.
I'm hoping it all works out with his coaches and school for academic reasons. He takes a foreign language that is not offered at many schools and will open doors in the future.
Last year was all local. He was invited to play with a travel team that did get seen a lot. But was not in the budget or politically correct. Which is really my point if he is not on the upper team with his high school he will play summer somewhere else to play against the best competition and get some exposure.
I'm hoping it all works out with his coaches and school for academic reasons. He takes a foreign language that is not offered at many schools and will open doors in the future.
Quote: By TR
When you do the right thing and you lose "friends" you are only losing people you have met
Well-said
When you do the right thing and you lose "friends" you are only losing people you have met
Well-said
Last I checked I only had 4 fingers and one thumb on each hand?
Last I checked I only had 4 fingers on one hand with one thumb, but I agree, my mom and dad are both passed and that leaves my wife and 2 kids as my best friends.
That's how I do it. All things equal (rarely the case), I go with the senior that has been in the program. Things are never equal, no two kids are the same. The younger kid has to be better than the senior to beat him out.quote:Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
Just curious if this is the norm for other coaches on this board.
At our school, you beat out a senior by "beating him out", and not by a shoestring, but by a bunch. To me, that's being a good coach and showing loyalty.
IMO, anything else would be an injustice to that senior.
This kind of thinking is why there is a huge perception gap between parents and coaches. You make uninformed assumptions based on a single stat, and you don't go to practices. Yet, you are qualified to to declare the coach is wrong, and the reserve is a better player because the lousy starter is hitting only .142. Must be politics in your mind. What else could it be?quote:Originally posted by bb1:quote:KnightTime
If you knew my sons coaches I think you might understand more. Lets put it this way. A kid the coaches friends kid bats .142 and plays every inning of every game. Do you think there was politics involved in that one? You betcha. Now, I don't go to practices but I do go to games. What was it Allen Iverson said " Practice we're talking about practice". If you don't produce in games you could look great in practice but it doesn't matter.
The coach is at practice every day, knows his players, their personalities, their work ethic, their leadership skills, their defensive abilities, arm strength, speed, physical strength, instincts, grades, discipline problems, team chemistry, etc, etc. And you want to make a judgement because a kid is batting .142? Brilliant. Obviously, you are much more qualified to make that call than the coach.
KnightTime,
It is obvious that you think coaches are always right and parents are always wrong. That's just not so. I'm not going to respond to whether I know more than the coaches because his coaches already tell the kids that their parents do not know more than them. There are more examples but I will not trash a kid or kids. My son plays every inning of every game and does so because he produces. Not what he does in practice. As a matter of fact I've watched him in practice and I'm glad it's not about practice. Something happens when the games start. Just as something happens for some that look terrific in practice and can't do so in games.
The average was just one point there are more but would it would be a waste of time to try and explain to a closed mind.
It is obvious that you think coaches are always right and parents are always wrong. That's just not so. I'm not going to respond to whether I know more than the coaches because his coaches already tell the kids that their parents do not know more than them. There are more examples but I will not trash a kid or kids. My son plays every inning of every game and does so because he produces. Not what he does in practice. As a matter of fact I've watched him in practice and I'm glad it's not about practice. Something happens when the games start. Just as something happens for some that look terrific in practice and can't do so in games.
The average was just one point there are more but would it would be a waste of time to try and explain to a closed mind.
Bayball-
I have seven years HS coaching experience (4 yrs - head coach, 3 yrs - assistant coach). I have three children. One is playing two sports at a DIII school. One is a senior with a baseball scholarship for next fall at an NAIA school. One is still in grade school. All are still playing multiple sports, so I have observed things from the inside and the outside (inside for coaching their baseball/softball teams, outside for their other sports). I would like to confirm some of the things stated here from my experience.
Don't assume that politics will hold you back. My son's scholarship was based on a live workout session with the coaches. My daughter was scouted while participating in club sports in the off-season (I know, not baseball, but relevant point). The HS sports were important to do and I wouldn't recommend skipping them, but they aren't the total thing.
Also, don't assume politics are happening and avoid whining parents and players even if they are somewhat right. As some have mentioned, different coaches have different policies. When I have head-coached, I have always announced to the teams that, generally, I like to get the nine best bats in the lineup. I haven't had too many situations where, with the DH, that I couldn't have nine acceptable defensive players on the field and my nine best bats hitting. But, when I began assisting our current HS coach three years ago, I found that he valued experience and defense more than just hitting. He platooned a .364/.548/.545 senior with a .371/.405/.429 sophomore (my son), he DH'd for a .381/.452/.603 sophomore (limited at bats) with a .273/.375/.327 senior, and allowed a great glove senior who hit .133/.259/.156 to hit full time. The senior that platooned with my son assumed there were politics happening to reduce his playing time and said so whenever I wasn't around. Out of loyalty to the coach, I didn't address it, but I told the coach my philosophy and, therefore, lobbied for him to get more at bats. I would have had both of them getting full at bats. But the team went 19-3, one of the best records our school has ever had, so who was I to argue with the method.
I have always instructed my children to ask the coach or listen to the coach about what they wanted to have them improve in their playing if they weren't happy with their PT. I have always told them my evaluation of the coaching decisions, but told them right away that it didn't matter what I thought. They needed to impress the coach. I don't practice complaining to the AD about coaches or harassing coaches with my opinion of how they used my children on their teams. I think it is a good life lesson for my children to work through it on their own with my support. BTW - I haven't seen this fail to work for my children, ever. Every time they have buckled down and worked hard at whatever the coach is asking, they have been rewarded with better PT. It hasn't always become as good as they wanted, but it has made them better at their sports and the PT has improved, even with coaches that I wouldn't evaluate highly.
Have fun and play ball.
I have seven years HS coaching experience (4 yrs - head coach, 3 yrs - assistant coach). I have three children. One is playing two sports at a DIII school. One is a senior with a baseball scholarship for next fall at an NAIA school. One is still in grade school. All are still playing multiple sports, so I have observed things from the inside and the outside (inside for coaching their baseball/softball teams, outside for their other sports). I would like to confirm some of the things stated here from my experience.
Don't assume that politics will hold you back. My son's scholarship was based on a live workout session with the coaches. My daughter was scouted while participating in club sports in the off-season (I know, not baseball, but relevant point). The HS sports were important to do and I wouldn't recommend skipping them, but they aren't the total thing.
Also, don't assume politics are happening and avoid whining parents and players even if they are somewhat right. As some have mentioned, different coaches have different policies. When I have head-coached, I have always announced to the teams that, generally, I like to get the nine best bats in the lineup. I haven't had too many situations where, with the DH, that I couldn't have nine acceptable defensive players on the field and my nine best bats hitting. But, when I began assisting our current HS coach three years ago, I found that he valued experience and defense more than just hitting. He platooned a .364/.548/.545 senior with a .371/.405/.429 sophomore (my son), he DH'd for a .381/.452/.603 sophomore (limited at bats) with a .273/.375/.327 senior, and allowed a great glove senior who hit .133/.259/.156 to hit full time. The senior that platooned with my son assumed there were politics happening to reduce his playing time and said so whenever I wasn't around. Out of loyalty to the coach, I didn't address it, but I told the coach my philosophy and, therefore, lobbied for him to get more at bats. I would have had both of them getting full at bats. But the team went 19-3, one of the best records our school has ever had, so who was I to argue with the method.
I have always instructed my children to ask the coach or listen to the coach about what they wanted to have them improve in their playing if they weren't happy with their PT. I have always told them my evaluation of the coaching decisions, but told them right away that it didn't matter what I thought. They needed to impress the coach. I don't practice complaining to the AD about coaches or harassing coaches with my opinion of how they used my children on their teams. I think it is a good life lesson for my children to work through it on their own with my support. BTW - I haven't seen this fail to work for my children, ever. Every time they have buckled down and worked hard at whatever the coach is asking, they have been rewarded with better PT. It hasn't always become as good as they wanted, but it has made them better at their sports and the PT has improved, even with coaches that I wouldn't evaluate highly.
Have fun and play ball.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
bb1
When you do the right thing and you lose "friends" you are only losing people you have met
Most people can only count their TRUE friends on the five fingers of one hand
Right on TR.
I'm truly confused why the high school coaches on here can't just admit the obvious. I know that most parent complaints are not legitimate and I view most with skepticism (through experience hearing other parents complain and receiving complaints as a summer coach). So if most are not legitimate, do you HS coaches assume no complaints are legitimate? You don't know me. You don't know our Freshman coach who could be an absolute moron. But I'm called ignorant by the coaches here and the Freshman coach is assumed to be a genius who has his own methods???
This is why guys over in the umpire section like PIAA ump and M. Taylor get so much respect from me and others...they are willing to admit if an ump blew it. It doesn't mean all umps are bad or they're out to get somebody. There are bad apples in every barrel. Fortunately there's not too many.
So let's see...there are umps doing a bad job, there are parents doing a bad job, but apparently there are no high school coaches doing a bad job. And apparently there's not a single parent or summer coach in the world that could possibly know more than their local freshman baseball coach. I've coached summer ball against our Freshman coach and if we had a baseball IQ test administered I think I'd do pretty well vs. him LOL.
What's offensive to me and perhaps others on this site is the arrogance with which some people post their thoughts. I think you should try to vet the people posting questions/thoughts instead of assuming they're morons. Having been around this site a couple years it's pretty easy to pick up which parents are trying to be responsible/thoughtful and which ones are all about their kid's glory.
I'm no genius and I can figure that out. So certainly high school baseball coaches can.
This is why guys over in the umpire section like PIAA ump and M. Taylor get so much respect from me and others...they are willing to admit if an ump blew it. It doesn't mean all umps are bad or they're out to get somebody. There are bad apples in every barrel. Fortunately there's not too many.
So let's see...there are umps doing a bad job, there are parents doing a bad job, but apparently there are no high school coaches doing a bad job. And apparently there's not a single parent or summer coach in the world that could possibly know more than their local freshman baseball coach. I've coached summer ball against our Freshman coach and if we had a baseball IQ test administered I think I'd do pretty well vs. him LOL.
What's offensive to me and perhaps others on this site is the arrogance with which some people post their thoughts. I think you should try to vet the people posting questions/thoughts instead of assuming they're morons. Having been around this site a couple years it's pretty easy to pick up which parents are trying to be responsible/thoughtful and which ones are all about their kid's glory.
I'm no genius and I can figure that out. So certainly high school baseball coaches can.
YHF - My advice was based on my limited experience and was intended to be helpful to bayball in a good or bad situation, not judging whether or not he was seeing things clearly. But, since you bring it up, the single worst thing about coaching a HS team is dealing with the two or three negative parents that always seem to be present in any collection of 18 players. The second worst thing is dealing with the one or two players always affected by the bickering. The third worst thing is the difficult situation the coach's child is in.
Sorry Rwulf, I didn't even see your post before i posted. Not directed at you since I don't even know what you said.
Your most recent post here makes perfect sense to me.
Your most recent post here makes perfect sense to me.
No problem. You posted not long after me and I qualified under the title "high school coach", so I put two and two together the wrong way.
Frankly, this has been one of the better threads I have seen come down the pike lately. I really don't see any glaring inconsistancies from what our coaches have said in this thread and what our parents have said. All the posts have been interesting to read.
Neither side appreciates broad-stroke charicatures however, and I believe some were just clarifying any over-simplifications or other negative implications that may have been made. Parents want the best for their kids and coaches want to see them develop properly and lets never forget - see the TEAM win. Winning is not a dirty word at the hs level. Sports are about winning and that is when they are fun.
Neither side appreciates broad-stroke charicatures however, and I believe some were just clarifying any over-simplifications or other negative implications that may have been made. Parents want the best for their kids and coaches want to see them develop properly and lets never forget - see the TEAM win. Winning is not a dirty word at the hs level. Sports are about winning and that is when they are fun.
I, just like the rest of you here know the parents who like to whine the entire time a game is played. What do you do?
I take my chair and cigar and sit up in right field by myself mostly and enjoy the game....away from them!
I take my chair and cigar and sit up in right field by myself mostly and enjoy the game....away from them!
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
I, just like the rest of you here know the parents who like to whine the entire time a game is played. What do you do?
I take my chair and cigar and sit up in right field by myself mostly and enjoy the game....away from them!
I mean, that is a good point. Sometimes parents that are hardest for coaches to deal with are also hardest for other parents to deal with
If I were to say that politics were rampant at the hs level would that change the way you would want your child to deal with it? Would that change the way you dealt with it? What good does it do to sit around and whine and bit*h about politics?
You go out there and you do your very best. You dont get caught up in the bs and the politics. You allow your son to strap it on and fight for everything he can get. You support him and you encourage him. And you help teach him that their will be obstacles to overcome on the baseball field just like in life.
In the end you want him to have a positive experience and enjoy himself. Leaving with a bitter taste in your mouth and complaining and whineing never solves anything. If I were to say that every coach in America plays politics would that help you out? Just about everyone that has ever played the game can point to some negative experiences in the game. The difference is how we choose to handle it.
You go out there and you do your very best. You dont get caught up in the bs and the politics. You allow your son to strap it on and fight for everything he can get. You support him and you encourage him. And you help teach him that their will be obstacles to overcome on the baseball field just like in life.
In the end you want him to have a positive experience and enjoy himself. Leaving with a bitter taste in your mouth and complaining and whineing never solves anything. If I were to say that every coach in America plays politics would that help you out? Just about everyone that has ever played the game can point to some negative experiences in the game. The difference is how we choose to handle it.
quote:I, just like the rest of you here know the parents who like to whine the entire time a game is played. What do you do?
I take my chair and cigar and sit up in right field by myself mostly and enjoy the game....away from them!
This season, my husband is keeping the books and I am sitting right next to him taking notes for game write-ups to be posted on the team website. What a great place to be -- away from not only the whiners, but also the moms who want to talk about the latest shoe sale at Macy's!
quote:Just about everyone that has ever played the game can point to some negative experiences in the game. The difference is how we choose to handle it.
Well put, Coach May.
The glass can be half-full or half-empty. It's all a matter of perspective.
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
I, just like the rest of you here know the parents who like to whine the entire time a game is played. What do you do?
I take my chair and cigar and sit up in right field by myself mostly and enjoy the game....away from them!
I'm with you there YGD. For my younger sons' teams, I just go down the foul line by myself to watch (unless I'm asked to keep the book). I'm considered anti-social but I can't stand to hear all the stupidity going on in the "parents section". And I have to be the rules interpreter for everyone if I sit there. Some parent screaming: "Hey Blue, that ball was foul tipped the runner can't steal!!" I have to tell him (loudly for blue to hear me) that if the ball is foul tipped directly into the catcher's mitt it's a live ball). I've had many an umpire thank me after games for setting our parents straight so he doesn't have to. Don't do that much anymore since I'm usually 200 feet away thank God.
My latest fun experience came Wednesday night when I was working with a kid in the cage doing tee drills. He started giving me a run-down on all the other kids on the team, rattling off the reasons why each one "won't make it". I didn't see the puppet master there but it's obvious his dad has been talking about all the other kids. BTW, this kid's dad thinks he's going pro and isn't shy to tell anyone about it (even strangers). He's got no chance of course. But that doesn't stop dad.
Also, nice posts from CD. Thanks.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Frankly, this has been one of the better threads I have seen come down the pike lately. I really don't see any glaring inconsistancies from what our coaches have said in this thread and what our parents have said. All the posts have been interesting to read.
Neither side appreciates broad-stroke charicatures however, and I believe some were just clarifying any over-simplifications or other negative implications that may have been made. Parents want the best for their kids and coaches want to see them develop properly and lets never forget - see the TEAM win. Winning is not a dirty word at the hs level. Sports are about winning and that is when they are fun.
CD, as usual you get right to the point. The way I approach this site is this...I've read a lot of posts from the coaches on here and I've asked for advice at times (again recently about my son's freshman tryouts in a different thread). I generally find the advice sound and that's why I keep reading. It seems to me that if a high school coach is willing to come on this site and provide answers for us, he/she is sincerely trying to help and has the best intentions for us and for the game in general. I have a great appreciation for this type of commitment and desire to help.
Regarding newer parents who post here, I think most are sincerely trying to get information to help their kids. Most seem to be thoughtful and are really trying to do what's right (whatever that is). The parents that come to post here that are only seeking confirmation that their young kid is a stud....well those parents stick out like a sore thumb which I'm sure is obvious to anyone who's been around here very long.
I am bothered by two things on this site...first, the broadbrush painting of parents as problems in baseball and the broadbrush painting of coaches (by other coaches) as saints. Neither of those is completely true. My defending all parents as helpful would be only slightly more crazy than the coaches here defending all coaches as 'pure'.
Second, this site is mainly about "high school" baseball but the advice from coaches/instructors/parents to the parents of pre-HS kids is driven mainly by what will get them to reach college or pro ball. When a parent posts in pre-HS about travel ball for example, he/she is railed upon for ruining his/her kid's "career". For the few kids who actually end up being good enough to play college ball, maybe that's true. But most of the parents posting in that section have kids that will play into high school (maybe) and that's it. So when 9-12 yr old kids play some travel ball I'm generally happy for those kids...I don't feel sorry for them like many advisors here do. If these kids get to make a trip to Cooperstown or to a couple bigger cities near them, they will have tremendous memories that will last them a lifetime. I can still remember the hotels we stayed at when I played LL all-stars in the late 70's. I think, what I'm trying to say is that not all advice here should be directed at what will help or prevent a 9-12 yr old to play pro ball. I think the goal of enjoying the game at that age and playing at the highest level where you can have fun and enjoy some success is more important.
What difference does it make? I know some coaches that I dont believe are very good coaches. The vast majority are Saints for putting up with what they have to put with. Most parents are great people that are very supportive. But what difference does it make? So your coach is a guy that plays politics. What are you going to do about it? Sit around and gripe and complain? Ride home in the car with your kid and talk trash about the coach in front of your kid? Give him excuses and sour his attitude towards the game?
Or do you tell him to overcome the situation and continue to work hard? Tell him that if he continues to keep a good attitude and continues to improve he will be alright in the end? There is summer and fall baseball right? There are showcase teams. There are showcase tourneys and other venues to show what you can do. If you develop a bad attitude and dont continue to work hard then what are you going to do? Spend the rest of your life blameing the hs coach for your failure in the game?
I simply dont understand the point of trying to find blame or excuses. If your in a tough situation then make the best of it. Continue to work hard and continue to be the best you can be. Dont allow someone else to determine your fate in the game. Its not in the coaches hands. Its in your hands.
Maybe in your area the hs coaches are clowns and they play politics. Maybe where your from the coaches dont really want to win they just play favorites. If you want the coaches here to bash each other thats just not going to happen. The coaches that are willing to come on here and talk about the game might just be pretty darn good coaches that do it the right way. I dont associate with the ones that dont. So I can not speak about them.
Or do you tell him to overcome the situation and continue to work hard? Tell him that if he continues to keep a good attitude and continues to improve he will be alright in the end? There is summer and fall baseball right? There are showcase teams. There are showcase tourneys and other venues to show what you can do. If you develop a bad attitude and dont continue to work hard then what are you going to do? Spend the rest of your life blameing the hs coach for your failure in the game?
I simply dont understand the point of trying to find blame or excuses. If your in a tough situation then make the best of it. Continue to work hard and continue to be the best you can be. Dont allow someone else to determine your fate in the game. Its not in the coaches hands. Its in your hands.
Maybe in your area the hs coaches are clowns and they play politics. Maybe where your from the coaches dont really want to win they just play favorites. If you want the coaches here to bash each other thats just not going to happen. The coaches that are willing to come on here and talk about the game might just be pretty darn good coaches that do it the right way. I dont associate with the ones that dont. So I can not speak about them.
quote:Ride home in the car with your kid and talk trash about the coach in front of your kid?
Perhaps the worst thing a parent or sibling can do for a kid. Even if you feel like it: take your dog for a walk and tell old Fido what a moron that coach is. You won't poison any relationships (including yours with your kid) by letting old Fido hear all your frustrations.
(If you don't have a dog, get on this website and let us have it...)
Great point. When kids get in the real world some of the screwings they will take will make high school baseball seem meaningless. I'll bet there have been some real bright people qualified to be Chairman of the Board at Ford Motor Company. Funny thing is, it's always a Ford. Is that politics or just life dealing a slice of reality?quote:You go out there and you do your very best. You dont get caught up in the bs and the politics. You allow your son to strap it on and fight for everything he can get. You support him and you encourage him. And you help teach him that their will be obstacles to overcome on the baseball field just like in life.
Has anyone ever been the best in your company at your level, expected a promotion and then the person doing the promoting hires a buddy from the outside? Welcome to life. Welcome to reality.
The best way to deal with obstacles is figure out how to beat them, or walk away and chose another battle.
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
What difference does it make? I know some coaches that I dont believe are very good coaches. The vast majority are Saints for putting up with what they have to put with. Most parents are great people that are very supportive. But what difference does it make? So your coach is a guy that plays politics. What are you going to do about it? Sit around and gripe and complain? Ride home in the car with your kid and talk trash about the coach in front of your kid? Give him excuses and sour his attitude towards the game?
Or do you tell him to overcome the situation and continue to work hard? Tell him that if he continues to keep a good attitude and continues to improve he will be alright in the end? There is summer and fall baseball right? There are showcase teams. There are showcase tourneys and other venues to show what you can do. If you develop a bad attitude and dont continue to work hard then what are you going to do? Spend the rest of your life blameing the hs coach for your failure in the game?
I simply dont understand the point of trying to find blame or excuses. If your in a tough situation then make the best of it. Continue to work hard and continue to be the best you can be. Dont allow someone else to determine your fate in the game. Its not in the coaches hands. Its in your hands.
Maybe in your area the hs coaches are clowns and they play politics. Maybe where your from the coaches dont really want to win they just play favorites. If you want the coaches here to bash each other thats just not going to happen. The coaches that are willing to come on here and talk about the game might just be pretty darn good coaches that do it the right way. I dont associate with the ones that dont. So I can not speak about them.
That's a really nice post but not relevant to what our disagreement was about. The disagreement was about the existence or prevailence of politics...not how to deal with it.
If it happens to my son or sons, I have a speech all ready for them.
quote:I am bothered by two things on this site...first, the broadbrush painting of parents as problems in baseball and the broadbrush painting of coaches (by other coaches) as saints. Neither of those is completely true. My defending all parents as helpful would be only slightly more crazy than the coaches here defending all coaches as 'pure'.
I want you to go back and prove these two things. Go back and pick out parts of a person's post who has said these things. You can't do it. If anyone is painting a broad brush it's you.
I have stated there are bad coaches and I have stated that there are great parents. I am pretty antisocial with parents of my players but there are about two or three I would actually consider a friend. The reason why I consider that is they know I would put their kid on the bench in a heartbeat if they deserved it. They let me do my job. I love those parents. But they are few and far between.
The coaches on here have take two angles to the politics situation - quit making excuses and overcome some hardships and believing that politics isn't that bad at the high school level.
YHF you have stated several times that you are a good coach and inferred that you know more than the freshman coach. If that's true that is great because baseball needs guys like you. We need great coaches to teach a great game. The thing is we only have your word that you are this great and the freshman coach is not that good. I am going to take you at your word though. I will believe that you are a good coach. Because if you (and there are some people on here who will do this) have to get on here and talk about how great you are then you are sad. I believe that you are a good coach.
The coaches on here are not perfect. I sure as heck know I am not perfect and I have made a ton of mistakes but I also know that I have made more better decisions than I made bad ones. I am willing to bet that Coach May, Knight Time and Trojan Skipper can say the same thing.
I have read Coach May and Trojan Skipper's post for quite some time now and I truly enjoy them. These are guys I have a lot of respect for and would love to step foot on the field against in a game. I know my team would be facing a quality and classy team. It would be an honor to face them regardless of the outcome. Still doesn't mean I agree with everything they believe in.
Also, I haven't read anywhere on here where either one has stated that high school coaches are saints and I know I haven't said it - YHF you painted that brush. I also know they haven't said all parents are bad and I know I haven't said it - YHF you painted that brush.
quote:Man you guys are really defensive. Dost thou protest too much?
The point is, just because you don't favor one kid over another doesn't mean it doesn't happen pretty often other places. There are a lot more bad parents than there are bad coaches for two reasons...(1) there are simply more parents than coaches in the system, and (2) parents have a vested interest in their sons making the team so they don't see things that an uninvolved person will see.
We are not protesting too much or being defensive - we are stating facts that there are certain situations that are just bad for some people. All it takes is one person to say politics exist and next thing you know it's rampant - doesn't matter if it's true or not. Politics is the scapegoat for failure. I and Knight Time are saying it's really not that bad because it exists because it's usually idiot parents who start it becasue they don't like what has happened. Coach May is pointing out that regardless of what is happening it's not going to change because you gripe and complain. In all honesty how many times have you seen a coach get ripped by a parent and their son start getting more playing time? I am sure it has happened and will continue to happen but overall it hurts your son. The coach will in all liklihood hold it against the player. Is that politics then so be it but it was politics created by the parent.
As for your second point - guess what - I have a vested interest in your son just like you do. You want your son to succeed. I want your son to succeed. You want your son to play. I want your son to play. That is why I chose him for the team. Once that happens the ball is now in his court. He either gets the job done or he doesn't. In all honesty it's not my decision - it's the player's decision.
As y'all have read, the coaches on this board pretty much agree on this issue. Why? It isn't because we have all read the same secret book, or attended the same secret coaching school, or have some sacred code of honor. The simple reason is that every single one of us has been put through the ringer dozens of times, year after year, with accusations playing politics, being stupid, unknowledgable, and/or making lousy game time decisions. It hasn't happened to us only once, but many times, year after year.
When you think your coach is out to get your kid, and hand HIS spot to an undeserving player, remember that there are 8 or 9 other parents of non-starters who also think that coach is out to get his/her kid at the same time. EVERY parent thinks his kid is better than he actually is. Every parent also thinks his son is beautiful, whether he's ugly or not. That's not a bad thing, it's just human nature, and our natural instincts are to protect our kids.
I think every coach on this board experiences something similar, year after year. We know you're not happy if your kid doesn't start, but that's the unfortunate thing about team sports. Not everyone can play at the same time. Not everyone can make the team. After son's Little League days, there are no longer rules about equal playing time, guaranteed roster spots, or rotating starters and positions each game.
Team sports are coached by people who make SUBJECTIVE decisions on who deserve roster spots and starting positions. Coaches' opinions are going to be different than parents'. If you don't like the subjectivity of team sports, go run track or join the swim team. That way, no coach can politically screw your kid out of his/her success.
Still, every year, the accusations keep coming, because parents can't believe we just don't see son's obvious talent, and we want to pay a political favor to someone. We are ruining son's chance at major D-1 baseball scholarships, major league career, and sports shoe contract. You may think I'm nuts, but believe it or not, we actually hear these things, and more than once. It's what we call the ESPN phenomenon.
There are parents on this board who have commented that I am unwilling to admit the obvious, or am in denial, or think all coaches are saints. I'd love to go along with you, but here's my take on what's going on:
A disgruntled parent of one of Coach Knighttime's players gets on this board and says something like, "Coach May, I commend you for playing it straight. You are one of the few good guys out there who doesn't play politics. BUT, my coach is one of the bad guys."
One of Coach May's disgruntled parents shows up and says something like, "Coach2709, I commend you for playing it straight. You are one of the few good guys out there who doesn't play politics. BUT, my coach is one of the bad guys."
One of coach2709's disgruntled parents makes a profound post and says something like, "Coach Knightime, I commend you for playing it straight. You are one of the few good guys out there who doesn't play politics. BUT, my coach is one of the bad guys."
Then we all get asked why we can't admit that there are a lot of bad coaches out there who are unethical. Is there any wonder? It's easy to make accusations about unethical coaches. But who really knows what the accused coach is thinking? The only one who knows for sure is the accused coach. The accusation alone doesn't make it reality, even though the accuser would love to think so. What ever happened to due process?
So, even though you can't understand our common themes on this thread, perhaps you can understand why we take accusations of "politics" with a whole bunch of skepticism. None of us ever said it NEVER happens. But we all agree that this is such a common and ongoing complaint, and a huge problem for high school coaches across the country, that we just can't take these accusations seriously. If parents cry WOLF so often, be careful when the wolf actually shows its fangs.
I posed this question in an earlier post, but oddly enough, nobody commented on this. Is there anyone out there who will admit his/her son simply is/was not good enough?
When you think your coach is out to get your kid, and hand HIS spot to an undeserving player, remember that there are 8 or 9 other parents of non-starters who also think that coach is out to get his/her kid at the same time. EVERY parent thinks his kid is better than he actually is. Every parent also thinks his son is beautiful, whether he's ugly or not. That's not a bad thing, it's just human nature, and our natural instincts are to protect our kids.
I think every coach on this board experiences something similar, year after year. We know you're not happy if your kid doesn't start, but that's the unfortunate thing about team sports. Not everyone can play at the same time. Not everyone can make the team. After son's Little League days, there are no longer rules about equal playing time, guaranteed roster spots, or rotating starters and positions each game.
Team sports are coached by people who make SUBJECTIVE decisions on who deserve roster spots and starting positions. Coaches' opinions are going to be different than parents'. If you don't like the subjectivity of team sports, go run track or join the swim team. That way, no coach can politically screw your kid out of his/her success.
Still, every year, the accusations keep coming, because parents can't believe we just don't see son's obvious talent, and we want to pay a political favor to someone. We are ruining son's chance at major D-1 baseball scholarships, major league career, and sports shoe contract. You may think I'm nuts, but believe it or not, we actually hear these things, and more than once. It's what we call the ESPN phenomenon.
There are parents on this board who have commented that I am unwilling to admit the obvious, or am in denial, or think all coaches are saints. I'd love to go along with you, but here's my take on what's going on:
A disgruntled parent of one of Coach Knighttime's players gets on this board and says something like, "Coach May, I commend you for playing it straight. You are one of the few good guys out there who doesn't play politics. BUT, my coach is one of the bad guys."
One of Coach May's disgruntled parents shows up and says something like, "Coach2709, I commend you for playing it straight. You are one of the few good guys out there who doesn't play politics. BUT, my coach is one of the bad guys."
One of coach2709's disgruntled parents makes a profound post and says something like, "Coach Knightime, I commend you for playing it straight. You are one of the few good guys out there who doesn't play politics. BUT, my coach is one of the bad guys."
Then we all get asked why we can't admit that there are a lot of bad coaches out there who are unethical. Is there any wonder? It's easy to make accusations about unethical coaches. But who really knows what the accused coach is thinking? The only one who knows for sure is the accused coach. The accusation alone doesn't make it reality, even though the accuser would love to think so. What ever happened to due process?
So, even though you can't understand our common themes on this thread, perhaps you can understand why we take accusations of "politics" with a whole bunch of skepticism. None of us ever said it NEVER happens. But we all agree that this is such a common and ongoing complaint, and a huge problem for high school coaches across the country, that we just can't take these accusations seriously. If parents cry WOLF so often, be careful when the wolf actually shows its fangs.
quote:How many times have you heard a player or parent say he got cut, or didn't make varsity, or doesn't start because he just isn't good enough? Plain and simple, "my kid is not as good as the other guys." The other players are simply better, or at least it's possible.
I posed this question in an earlier post, but oddly enough, nobody commented on this. Is there anyone out there who will admit his/her son simply is/was not good enough?