High School turning into rec league!

It's simple...it's your passion for the game, an admirable character that an overwhelming amount of coaches in the same position have.  Why else would we put up with whiny kids and parents who feel entitled nowadays?  It only takes a few of those types to make it seem like that it all that you deal, but overall, I believe there are many more kids/parents who respect the game, the coaches, and the tradition of what baseball can give to a player in the terms of life lessons.  Hang in there!

 

This is why more coaches are getting out of the high school coaching business and into the academy instruction business. There's less grief and more pay. I would never address a coach on behalf of my kids. Their learning to address a coach is part of growing up. I learned this from my father who told me I could be a pussy and quit or man up. I guess that's what you get when your dad graduated from high school and into WW2.

It's because that's the way society is these days, Coach... Everyone gets a trophy!

its come to the point where when i go to my sons games i need to put in my ear buds and listen to some music instead of listening to the griping going on with alot of the parents.

 

Some of these kids should not even be playing JV and yet they think the kids are all heading to stanford to play. i give kudos to any coach willing to do this for our kids, coach actually got scolded by a parent for demanding her son show up to practice with his shirt tucked in, its insanity. I would last probably about 1 practice before i gutted the team and gave out true evaluations.

 

When the winds of change blow, some people build walls and others build windmills.  - Chines proverb.

 

Passion4baseball - You seem like a really great coach with your heart in the right place.   Unfortunately our society has lost it mind and the "age of the helicopter parent" has emerged.  I blame my generation.  It may take a generation to weed this behaviour out, but I'm not counting on it.  It is unfortunate that a few bad apples are spoiling the bushel.  So, you can try to deal with it as best you can or move onto something else that gives you the same enjoyment.   JMO.

 

Good luck!

Why is the AD entertaining these discussions?  That's the problem right there.  You can't stop people from complaining but you can stop it in its tracks by not engaging the parent.  I've seen the same parents deal with both types of coaches - when that door opens they never let up, but when coaches don't engage you don't hear a peep out of them anymore.  They are like little kids that take as much as they can get away with.  I think you should have a frank discussion with the AD about cutting off these discussions.

 

Thank you Fenway for providing a much needed Zen moment to the day!

 

It does seem as though HS baseball isn't what it once was... feels like that as a parent and one time player anyway. I would chalk it up to my own rose colored glasses of yesteryear, but seems like many coaches say the same.

I don't get the whole complaining over playing time thing.  I can not see a situation where I would approach a coach and complain that my child is not playing.  Especially when it comes to school ball.  I guess if my kid was on a travel team, we were paying a bunch of money, and he never saw game time I may say something but probably not.  Most likely I would just look for a different program for him the next season.  I know it happens all the time.  My wife is an administrator in our school district so I am personal friends with a lot of coaches.  I get to hear a lot of the stories and I've decided they do not get paid enough to deal with the parents.

The next time a parent complains to you, give them a card with only this website's address on it. Tell them to type it in and take the issue up with us. We'll know what to say to them.

 

Thanks very much for what you do. I'm sure you've touched a lot of young men's lives in many positive ways.

 

...and feel free to vent here whenever you like.

 

Coach,

 

I hope you hang in there, and stay the course....much of the person I am was learned from my high school coach (at least the few good qualities I have)....., when I was playing HS, the coaches were like "Rock Stars" in their players' eyes....now I suspect the society of "self-entitlement" has diminished this greatly, however I bet you my last dollar, that you are still able to reach some, in spite of their parents.

 

I know your post was not intended to get accolades, however guys like yourself, Coach2709, and others that have posted on this site should be commended often!

 

Best of luck, and thanks for your dedication to the game.

 I have said before that a good HS coach must feel overwhelmed.

The generation that took away spanking, is responsible for a bunch of today's problems mentioned here, whining, helicopter parents, stupid Emails, gutless parent groups attacking coach and AD, everybody gets a trophy, I could go on but I'm running out of comma's over here!

Passion4,

I've been trying to do the same for a while now and, overall, find it very rewarding. 

 

Part of my schtick has been to distance myself from the parents and send the message that it is really all about the players.  I pour all of my efforts and attention toward the boys.  Last week, a dad came and sat down in the dugout while we were practicing.  I immediately kicked him out... gave him the firm "have to have the same set of rules for everyone" and "field/dugout is off limits to parents until the last field prep task is complete and the boys are released". 

 

Well, ever since, I've been thinking about the way I handled this.  The guy is one of the nicest guys in the world and is great about supporting all the boys, not just his.  We are in a small community where parents care and coddle too much, which is far better than the opposite.  It takes a while for them to let go a bit when their kids hit HS.  While the message I delivered was, I believe, the correct one, I'm not so sure about the delivery.  I was kind of an A$$.  It has really made me re-think my position on some things.  I still think it is correct to set firm boundaries for parents and to be careful not to show friendly favoritism while among parents but I think we all need to adjust to the times a bit.  I am starting to think I should act with a bit more compassion and guidance with the parents as well.  

 

I guess my point is that we need to continue to recognize the times we live in and make the necessary changes to adapt as we go.  It is extremely important to prepare the parents for their roles with good, early communication and bring the AD into the loop so you have his support and are on the same page.  Set firm boundaries but have some compassion as to what the new-to-HS parents may be going through.

 

 

Now, those who are seeing their third kid go thru the program and still cause headaches... that's a different post.

 

Focus on the 95% of players and parents who are a pleasure to be around.

 

Best wishes and keep the passion!   

We're on real good terms with my son's head coach.  He was my son's travel coach last summer, gave him lessons at his baseball academy for a year before that, and is the president of the optimist club where my younger son plays and I coach. Heck, his daughter and my son are the same age and are friends.

 

Despite all that, I won't discuss team issues with him.  That's my son's responsibility. 

 

 

Confession time - I did it once when our older son was pretty young - in an all star tournament.  I cannot explain why I did it, it was stupid and I learned my lesson and never did it again. 

 

Lucky for me, the coach was an experienced coach who put me in my place and later became one of my very best friends - even coached with me a number of years later.

 

I do wish I could explain my one-time behavior - perhaps it would unlock some of the mystery.  But I cannot.  Good news is I learned what a foolish thing it was to do.  Sadly, many do not.

I think two things are generally at play these days:  setting expectations and accountability. 

 

Coaches, schools, et. al. need to set expectations.  For many, HS might be the first time they are not in an "everybody plays" environment. 

 

Secondly, society today isn't afraid to hold people accountable.  In years gone by, the coach, teacher, principle, etc. was "always right."  But living thru that era as a kid (and while that is the message to my kids) I know that frequently they are wrong.  Today, we are more inclined to stand up and tell them so.  So you as a coach should have an articulable reason for your actions. 

 

Most parents when told what the expectations are and have an accountable coach will never be any problems.  Cabagedad's story is exhibit A. 

Hopefully AD sets them straight when they come to complain about playing time. They have too much to do without dealing w whiney  parents. Playing time discussions in HS should only be between players/coaches. Kid needs to ask coach what they need to work on to get more time. Take the advice and work on things. Too many parents treat their 15-17 yr olds like 7 yr olds. R they going to college w them and talking to their professors too?  The only given on any HS team should be that player gets to practice w team. Anything past that is optional depending on skill level.

Our Freshman coach let all three catchers rotate and play/start games. Only one was good and played next yr. the other two were lazy and didn't need to work on skills they were getting in every third game no matter what. Frustrated pitchers too that they rotated. Catchers/pitchers form a special bond. It's better IMO to have a starting catcher  and only sub in when needed. My son was not a catcher by the way.

keep your head up and realize u r there for the players and not parents.

How did he word his reply?

He didn't give in to my idiotic inquiry.  He told me to take a hike (basically), but not in a nasty way...just a firm and certain way.

 

My son told me in his own way that I was wrong and oughta reconsider.

 

And the coach made sure to let me know he hadn't written me off forever.  He showed me respect as opposing coaches and a year later when I coached his son in an all star tournament.

 

Bottom line - that coach and my son were better "men" than me and by responding firmly, certainly...but with an open door to fix it...I learned my lesson.

 

I was lucky.  One of my very best 'youth baseball experiences' was learning from a foolish mistake. 

I also did this...once.  A regrettable 3AM email to the greatest coach I have ever known. He never replied.  He responded by continuing and to this day continues to be a great supporter and role model for my son.  He has

also always treated me with the upmost respect.  I have never complained about playing time to a coach since. 

To chime in on the topic of this thread - I do believe that HS is becoming more like REC ball. I know that every HS is different and to speak in generalities is problematic - but from my son's school and some of the surrounding schools  - yes it is.

 

My son's HS has 4 teams (along with many of the teams in our conference) - fresh-soph-JV- and Varsity. We could and should get by with 3 teams. There are kids playing who are a danger to themselves on the field. We have juniors on JV and seniors on Varsity that have been told they will not play but OK to be on team. While I can understand - all this does in long run is prevent more reps during practice for the kids who will play - at every level. I also believe it prevents kids from working out in the off-season as much as they should.

 

Competition breeds success. My son (junior) is battling a senior for starting catcher position on varsity. My son worked his butt off this winter - he wanted to leave no doubt come tryouts (this week) who was the better catcher. I am proud of how hard he worked so regardless of who gets the positon - he knows he did his best.

 

Unfortunately, there is a definite feel of entitlement to many of the kids in the program. They have always been on a team and expect to always be on a team. I am hoping that the coaches this year decide to cut back to 3 teams and field the best team at all levels.

With 3 sons playing HS ball, I have been thru 3 HC as a parent. Fisrt 2  had the same approach to parents. they had a pre season meeting that gave out schdeules, talked about dugout club, filled out forms and set expectations. They both said that they loved talking to parents and would be happy to talk about anything with them, EXCEPT playing time and game strategy. They talked about how it was our sons that needed to talk about how to get more playing time.They both said simply if you wanted to talk about either of those, bring your sons uniform with you. Set the expectation very clear. Had the chirpy parents but coach didn't have to listen to them. 

 

New coach last year, same meeting. He came in under format that he was a "players coach" and his words were simply he would talk to parents about anything, gave out all his phone numbers, emails, etc. I knew he was in trouble. and he was. He had parents before and after games talking to him about playing time, game strategy, who should play where (of course thier son was always in a key spot), batting order, who should pitch and when. It was crazy. Caused parents to not get along becasue of course if thier son was playing someone elses was sitting or not pitching or batting in lower order etc. Kids felt it among parents becasue they certainly weren't quiet during games when it did not go well. I hope he learned his lessson and addresses it right away this year, but I fear he has let horse out of the barn as we only had 2 seniors graduate last year so dealing with basically same parents.

 

I am not a big fan of his at all, but I would never say anything to him about his team. It is his team. 

How you deal with parents has to be established with a parent's meeting.  I had an in depth one and one where I laid out the rules.  I never deviated from those rules.  Communication can be great between a coach and parents.  If you set the parameters up as to how you will hold those discussions, for example never talking to a player about playing time or one teammate versus another, then they know the limits of what they say.  You also have to work with your AD with a communication plan.  In my parent meeting, I made sure that the parent knew that our AD was available for them to discuss any conflicts that they have with me.  However, if I were to be in any meeting, their child will be in that meeting.  Simply saying that a player will be in any meeting stops a lot of those conversations.  IMO, a lot of coaches bring a lot of heartache their way because they didn't prepare that parent meeting and didn't prepare a handout clarifying a communication system and your rules for having a meeting.  

CoachB25,

 

What you’ve described is what its all about, COMMUNICATION! When the guidelines are known by everyone, and as long as those guidelines are adhered to, there’s no reason there should be a lot of acrimony. And you’re also correct in that PREPARATION is an essential part of good communication.

 

I’m pretty sure there are more than 16,000 HSs in this country that participate in sports, and for most schools there are at least 2 teams in each of the major sports. That means upwards of 30,000 different coaches, so there’s absolutely no way any single way of going about it will be the best for every team. But communication is a constant. If its done correctly, it will work in every program.

 

One year before our parent meeting, which I held the first Saturday after the team was made and after a practice, I called a buddy of mine over and we had a talk.  He and I had played ball together for a very long time.  He had two talented sons.  One was a freshman and one was in 8th grade.  I told him that in the parent meeting that I would outline how parents and I will communicate and that he and I will not talk again as friends until his youngest son was out of school.  Both boys had the potential to play varsity as freshmen and I knew it.  He didn't understand and so I told him that if I played his son, everyone would assume that it was because he and I were friends.  So, I would not play ball on his team anymore.  I would not run around with him as a friend.  I would not rob his son of the ability to prove to everyone that if he made varsity, he earned it instead of I gave it to him.  He followed the rules set out for all parents.  His son hit a homerun in his first varsity at bat.  The next practice, his son gave me a thank you card and on the inside, it read, I understand now.  We are still good friends and I love his sons.  Both had tremendous careers for me.  Coaches have to set up these rules or they are in for so much heartache!

I think they key to neutering this seemingly-increasing number of juvenile parents is LEADERSHIP.

 

Yes, HS coaches have to establish the ground-rules early, and all that. But since this generation of parents is so accustomed to ignoring rules, that's not enough.

 

Passion4baseball: I'm not saying you're NOT demonstrating leadership (at all) ... and I have no doubt that you are justifiably fed up. Still, it's all about leadership. And that means accepting the challenges, and overcoming them.

 

I guess what I'm saying is ... I'd LOVE to see you come here and post about how you solved this problem, rather than lament about it. NOT because you aren't justified in complaining, but because I desperately want to believe we still have real leaders in our schools who know how to solve problems.

passion it sounds like you and I have very similar stories in taking over programs at a young age and meeting resistance.  I actually had a post pretty much typed out last night but my magical recliner made me fall asleep.  Somehow when I woke up this morning the post was gone.  I'll try again tonight to put down some things I've learned through the years in how to deal with these people.  Maybe you can take a few tidbits from me and some from guys like cabbagedad and Coach B25 (and others on here) who have been through the battles.  Nothing really prepares you for these but you can learn from them.

Please do Coach2709... I start my first year as a high school assistant on Monday.

Cabbage, you have a PM

Congrats and good luck coach! Being an assistant is great because baseball is the only thing you have to think about. No paperwork and no BS.  

Always support the head coach. It's okay to disagree or discuss different ideas once in awhile but that has to be behind closed doors.

 

I feel that my job is to take care of all the little stuff... field work, making sure the buckets and helmets are at the field, getting stretches and warm up started before he gets down to the field so we can start right away when he arrives from work.

Also knowing when to play good cop and bad cop depending on what situation arises. Im a former umpire too so I will be the rules guy/doing evaluations.

I do not think Varsity Baseball has turned into a rec league.  I think a lot of changes in the society of baseball has caused these problems, mostly travel ball.  I am not opposed to travel ball at the slightest, in fact my son plays travel ball.  However, if a parent tries hard enough they call always find a travel team their son can play on.  I have had a player who played for 6 different travel teams before he got to HS.  They have always seen their sons on the field and because they do not understand everything that goes into evaluating talent and plugging pieces in they don't get why their kid is on the field. 

 

When I got to the school I am at it was the first time I had a large group of parents and I was overwhelmed, second guessed behind my back and to my face.  The entire coaching staff understood who and who should not be playing because they all had college baseball backgrounds.  In the end I just realized there are some things I can not control, I kept my head down, and controlled those things that I could.

 

The thing that has always amazed me the most is parents actually believing that I want to see their kid fail or playing 1 kid over another because "so and so" is donating money.  REALLY??? You don't think I want to win and I am willing to have a kid on the field whose dad donated money....Come on Man, I like to win!

I agree with how this could, should, be done. But like signing up to be a police officer and like being a coach in any sport, you know what you are getting into and it is tough.

Thanks for being a coach

I was 22 / 23 when I moved six hours away from where I grew up to take my first teaching job.  I had been coaching about 4 years before that while I was in college and shortly after.  I took over a team that had a very very tough group of parents.  I was the fourth head coach in four years - this includes the principal who hired me who took it for one year just to have a team because nobody wanted to coach them.  My first booster club meeting it all went downhill from there.  The president looked at me and said "you get a list together of the things you want and we will look at what we would like to buy." That didn't set too well with me and I replied with "How about I go out and order what I want and you figure out how to pay for it?"  What made it worst is that I ended up with a young team (8 sophomores and 1 junior started) so I was going to be around these people for several years.  I eventually folded the booster club because they were out of hand.  They went to the principal and board of education demanding I get fired.  One parent tried to fight me on the field after a game.  He laid hands on me.  An older guy who had a brother on the team was doing radio play by play who insulted me on the air.  It was just nasty.

 

I kept thinking to myself that this group would graduate and be gone. Then one day they did graduate and they were gone........only to be replaced by another group.  Let me just say that it does get better the longer you stay and people learn how you are and how you handle things but there will always be those idiot parents out there.  If you coach 20 years you will have idiot parents almost every year of varying degrees.

 

The thing is I don't care how long you've been an assistant coach and / or how great the head coach(es) you've worked under you are never going to be prepared to be under that type of assault.  You may say you have thick skin but until you are under this type of criticism you really don't know.  I had to develop a thicker skin.  But it does get better as you get older and more experienced.  You learn to deal with it better.  You learn to not take it as personally.  You even learn to laugh at it and even make fun of the people who are like this.  That last sentence may not go over well with some on here but it's one way to cope with all this pressure from people who don't get it.  Until you've been a high school or higher coach, where it's your job and not a hobby, you don't know what the pressure is like.  Coaching a youth league / travel team is not the same.  You can walk away and still go to work the next day.  I walk away and my pay is now affected.  I still have to see these kids in the classroom or hallway.  I still have to talk to these parents in parent / teacher meetings.  You learn to deal with it.

 

One thing you do is you be 100% honest even if it's not something they want to hear. I don't post lists (although I did my first year) on who made the team.  My first year I posted a list and this kid who loved baseball was terrible so I cut him.  He had his hopes really high about making the team so he broke down crying in the hallway in front of everyone.  That is so wrong on so many levels and I felt so bad.  After that I always pulled them in my office and told them face to face.  Now they can save face in front of their peers if they break down.  I can keep them in my office until they compose themselves.  I tell them exactly why they didn't make the team and exactly what they need to do improve on.  I think you owe it to someone who comes out for three days (or however long you run tryouts) to look them in the eye and tell them why they did or didn't make it.  I also use this as the time to tell those who make it their role on the team - courtesy runner, relief pitcher, etc.... - but I end it with if you perform and are better someone they can earn the right to be the starter.  There is a funny story associated with this.  One year I cut this kid who was a senior who never came out until that year.  He was terrible and I mean terrible.  I cut him and told him his skills were not at a level they needed to be to make the team.  He left my office but hung around.  When I was done with everyone he came back up to me and said he wanted me to change my mind.  I said no it was final.  He kept begging and pleading until his dad came into the gym.  When I saw him walk in my first thought was "this wasn't going to end well".  The dad stood and listened for a minute while I actually said what I told him in the office again for his dad to hear.  The dad says "whoa, whoa, whoa - you heard the man.  You're not good enough.  You should have tried when you were a freshman.  Now let's go, your mom has dinner ready and you know she doesn't like to wait on us.  Thanks coach - have a good evening." I just stood there dumbfounded because that was one of the first parent interactions that went in my way.

 

So a parent wants to talk to you after a game / practice when they're mad - don't ever do it.  Always wait to the next day when emotions have calmed down.  Have a meeting with the AD or principal.  

 

I know I've painted a pretty negative picture of parents and probably coaching in general but I do want to say that overall my coaching career has been awesome.  I've met many more parents who have been great people than the negative ones.  Right now I play golf with two dads almost weekly and I coached their sons as an assistant.  We didn't start playing until after I was no longer coaching their kids but it's possible to have a friendship with parents but best to wait until after the coaching their kid is over.

 

I have no idea if this even relates to the OP anymore and I've been typing on this for a few days now because my magical recliner keeps knocking me out when I get home at 10 PM after events at school.  But I hope it helps some......assuming you've made it this far.

Coach 2709 right on.  I plan on re-reading your post and the OP.  I'm in my second week of head coach of high school JV team.  Two hours ago received my first phone call from a drunk parent.  Here it is Saturday night and I'm dealing with this?  Actually I politely said I would not discuss playing time issues and the like, with parents.  If they felt the issue was one of professional misconduct then contact the AD.  I respectfully said goodnight and hung up the phone.

No doubt coaching is a calling.  I have drifted away from going to church on Sundays due to baseball, sure I'm not the only one.  But I remember listening to a priest once who said basically, "DO NOT LET PEOPLE STOP YOU FROM DOING WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED TO DO."  This parent and these type of parents fall into this category.  I hung up the phone and just shook my head.  The poor kid who calls this person their parent.  Maybe that's why I coach?

 

first off, as a parent i want to thank all of you coaches. I can't even imagine! 

My son who is now a senior, and recruited for next year in college, owes a big thank you to his high school coach....let me explain.

 

when my son was a freshman he was about 5'10" and weighed about 250lbs. typical first baseman. Big, tons of power(hitting regular 400 ft homers) great around the bag.....but speed wasn't in his bag of tricks...lol. he held homer records for every league he played in and pitchers hated him...he thought he was a shoe-in for varsity as a freshman.(no, i did not..lol speed is important sweety!) so he was placed on the jv team and at times when needed he also played freshman ball. HE, ON HIS OWN went to the varsity coach----who didnt know him from adam, and asked what he needed to do to make varsity. This wonderful coach looked him right in the eye and said.....lose weight, get faster, and work hard in the gym. That is exactly what my son did.....he is now 6'2" and weighs 205....all muscle....hitting bombs like mad and has been a varsity starter since his sophmore year. He was recruited this year and has loved the ride. ALL BECAUSE THIS COACH HAD THE STEEL TO BE HONEST WITH HIM! and as a parent i love the coach for this!! that had to be a very hard conversation for our coach to have with a boy he didnt know. We have had four of our seniors recruited with very nice packages from very good schools, should have been five but that boy decided he didnt want to play in college, and this coach should be proud! 

Great post Coach2709. Thanks for sharing.

some background. I coached high school for 25 years. I have been out 15 years. I was a I will be honest I would not even think of coaching today. Talking to coaches I hear them lament about parents. You could have 20 kids on the team and one or two parents can make it miserable. I do not hear it occasionally but it is a common theme. I sat at a game last season at the high school I coached and had to move as a parent did nothing but bad mouth the coach. It took all in my being from telling him to shut the *&^% up. 

 

From what I'm reading it sounds like if the coach sets strong ground rules and expectations at the first parents meeting that a lot of grief can be mitigated.  When I coached in league ball I actually made a point to sit out a kid in a district game because his grandfather was complaining about his grandson not getting enough attention. 

 

I've heard some negative comments about our high school coach before my son got to high school this year.  Is he perfect?  Does he have a kid or two out of position? Does he teach a funny way to bat?  Yes, but so far I've observed a guy that manages the game well.   

 

Even though he did not have a parent meeting this year, no parent that I know would dare approach him to discuss playing time for their kid.  He's been at the school for 15 years.  

Parent meeting? Never had one but seems in today's environment  

parents have to be told things that years ago were common sense.