Doc, perhaps you should let us know what the heck you are talking about so we can judge whether the criminal acts of one English teacher truly reflect upon everyone in that profession. Even some "doctor"s are criminals, BTW. Perhaps you've heard of Josef Mengele? And that's no doubt true of every occupation, including whatever yours may be.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Originally Posted by Passion4baseball:
I sometimes wonder why I coach high school baseball and bust my you know what for 10 months trying to prepare young men to be not only quality baseball players but good people. (not to mention the $1 an hour I get for everything that I do)
I remember a time when parents stayed away from the high school game and let their kids deal with the coach themselves and not cry about lack of playing time to the AD.
My parents never said a word to the coach. They told me if I wanted to speak to the coach go ahead but they stayed out of it.
Plus why do some parents think that everyone should play on a varsity team?
Varsity baseball is not rec league. It drives me crazy.
Sorry for venting but I had to get this off my chest lol
If you feel this way, quit and get a job in the business world. After a few years of that you will find something to complain about in that field. Life's tough deal with it. Do you really think your job is harder than everyone else's?
Most high school coaches in my area are not teachers and have jobs in the business world. I don't see anyone in this thread claiming being a coach is a harder job. How often do you have family members of your employees emailing or calling you to ask why their family member isn't being given a raise or being promoted? What about complaints why a (more qualified) employee makes more than this person?
Every decision a varsity coach makes is going to be second guessed by someone. I was an assistant for two years before becoming a head varsity coach so I knew what I was getting in to before accepting the position. I love the game and love helping kid's develop in baseball and life too much to let parent issues skew my mindset. It's not a high paying position at all. I don't know a single head baseball coach who makes five figures coaching high school but I knew that coming in as well. Compensation wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the list of reasons of why I coach and I would think that's true for 90% of coaches too.
Nobody should feel offended about me bringing up a teacher who provides booze for kid's unless they are feeling guilty of something. Maybe I am just old fashion but I hate it when the news reports on student and teacher sexual affairs also. Good teachers and good coaches have their work cut out for them. But I wont fall for the "every coach and every teacher in public schools are some kind of hero" when I know first hand it's not true. My brother is a good coach and good teacher, but his kid's attend a private school where teachers and kids are held accountable, and are expected to excel.
Doc, then you are equally as outraged at the school board doing nothing and so, I know you are going there with these charges. If the administration is doing nothing, the school board is your next move and you won't let a teacher like that teach in your district. Of course you will have to provide some proof.
As far as grammar, I always say that my Grammar is fine and she lives in Kentucky.
Per teaching and coaching, those professions will always include peaks and valleys. The valleys seem so deep and the peaks don't seem to last long enough. Still, these are young lives we deal with. For myself, had it not been for one teacher and one coach, I don't think my life would have turned out so good. I was headed for major trouble and had already been in dozens of fights by the time I was a Junior in high school. I lived in a very bad area. I thank both of them for saving my life. That is what teachers and coaches can do. Again, both professions are ones that you must have a passion for and want to be there all of the time regardless of the valleys you will hit in doing so. There is no feeling better than having a former player come back and thank you for all that you did for them.
IMO, this thread might have run its course but I won't be the one to close it.
Take care all,
Darrell
Originally Posted by 19coach:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Originally Posted by Passion4baseball:
Every decision a varsity coach makes is going to be second guessed by someone.
That is true of any coach, LL, HS, College, Professional. Heck we have a whole talk radio format dedicated to it. It's the American way to question the coach.
Originally Posted by Smitty28:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Originally Posted by Passion4baseball:
I sometimes wonder why I coach high school baseball and bust my you know what for 10 months trying to prepare young men to be not only quality baseball players but good people. (not to mention the $1 an hour I get for everything that I do)
I remember a time when parents stayed away from the high school game and let their kids deal with the coach themselves and not cry about lack of playing time to the AD.
My parents never said a word to the coach. They told me if I wanted to speak to the coach go ahead but they stayed out of it.
Plus why do some parents think that everyone should play on a varsity team?
Varsity baseball is not rec league. It drives me crazy.
Sorry for venting but I had to get this off my chest lol
If you feel this way, quit and get a job in the business world. After a few years of that you will find something to complain about in that field. Life's tough deal with it. Do you really think your job is harder than everyone else's?
Pretty harsh. This job may not be harder than others, but no one should have to put up with this kind of grief from self entitled parents unless they are making deep into six-figures.
Every job has it's issues if you do not handle them quick, fair and firm you will fill your life with stress. The OP would rather blame others than take personal accountability.
Originally Posted by coach2709:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
so you think all learning disabilities are fake? i find that if the teacher can teach then all can learn. The struggle is I find to many teachers are lazy and expect the book to teach. My teachers may have been tough but the all taught and earned their pay.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Homeschooling is needed because of the teachers union trying to get a safety net for teachers who can teach. How about you get paid based on your performance?
You need to stick with whatever profession it is you're in and leave education to the professionals. The reason the world of education is messed up is everyone outside of it thinks they know how to do it better. You better believe SOME people fake learning issues (actually read what TPM posted and you'll see at no point did she say that learning issues are fake). These are the same people who hang out in the parking lot of games and wait until we stop taking money at the gate just so they don't have to pay $5 that goes to help kids get equipment to play the sports they want to play. Or sneak through the woods to get around the gate.
You better believe we deserve a union just like any other worker's organization deserves one. Look back through history and actually understand the conditions that lead to the creation of unions. We don't ever want to go back there. You don't think it will happen because we're in the 21st Century? I grew up in southern West Virginia in the heart of coal mining country. My dad was a union miner his whole life and where we lived was strong union mines. My generation didn't understand how important the unions were and several mines started offering more pay to stop joining the unions. They took the money and the unions were broken. Now my buddies I grew up with tell me they can't watch their kids play sports because they are always at work. They now work a 10-12 hour shift and aren't able to call in to take days off or they will lose their job. Their whole life revolves around making that company money. That wonderful pay that enticed them to give up the union? Isn't there anymore. They basically froze wages after that.
I want a teachers union because I'm tired of the state screwing us over. Ever since I moved to NC my pay has been frozen. The cost of EVERYTHING has went up except for my pay. All because the government cannot balance a budget. So since they fail at their job I have to suffer. NC is a "right to work" state meaning a union cannot be created for state workers. Worst decision ever because we have no say in how we are treated - which is very poorly.
All this being said I do understand that unions can get out of hand and that is no good for anybody. But not having one is much worse. Something's wrong when people who have master degree's have to work a second job just to make ends meet. That means we really don't have summers off.
This is the most I've complained about my job situation. I know I have a choice in what I do for a living. I could change jobs and find something that pays better but I don't want to. I love teaching and I love coaching and I love trying to help kids be the best they can be or at least better than their idiot parents but it's not a bed of roses.
Edited to add - I've seen some home school kids who were much better off academically than their peers. But the vast majority of home schoolers I've taught who came into public school are so far behind academically, socially and lack maturity it almost borders on mental child abuse. They are normal kids who have a very difficult time functioning in normal situations because their parents thought they could do a better job than teachers. But that's just my experience - could be different for others. I readily admit that.
I sure glad you don't teach at my son's school. what if teachers pay and job security where based on state testing in each subject? great teachers get paid more and the ones who can't lose their job. That's what it's like in my profession. You produce or your out.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Look, a teacher's job is no better or worse than most of the jobs out there. They all have issues. Like parents, customers complain all the time, for nonsense bs. You smile and do what you can to make the situation "right." But I think it is the "my way, or the highway," we know better than you, coach (teacher) is all ways right, no accountability attitude that gets people.
Amen!
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
I sure glad you don't teach at my son's school. what if teachers pay and job security where based on state testing in each subject? great teachers get paid more and the ones who can't lose their job. That's what it's like in my profession. You produce or your out.
First, I want to go on the record for saying that I tried two times to keep with the OP's post and avoid the confrontation. Now, I'll weigh in some and hope I temper myself some. BB's, Great and while we're at it, lets test the parents as well. Let's also determine how many hours each parent is spending at night with their child doing homework. I'm not talking about making sure that they do it. I'm talking about turn everything off and for the next 2 hours, that child's homework is all that is happening. I'm talking about parent who don't take the child's word that there is no homework and who, instead, demand that they bring homework home regardless and then work with them on every subject. Lets find out how many parents put their money where their mouth is and hire a tutor to help with that homework. I mean an adult tutor and not some HS kid. They pay for hitting and pitching lessons when that education is so much more important. I'm sure you fit that bill.
As an FYI, my wife and I did although we both graduated with perfect GPAs from college. My wife was the "Most Outstanding Biology Student" and "Most Outstanding Physics Student" when she graduated college. We both have advanced degrees and yet, we wanted her to have the 1 on 1 of a professional tutor. We also had her take the ACT 4 times.
As Coach mentioned earlier, I too have had 4 years of salary freeze. Then, this year, we got a 1% increase. At the same time, governmental intrusion into the educational process, the Common Core, the Danielson Model of Instruction, are all changing the game again. I've been through roughly 7 changes in instructional methodology/assessment in my 28 years of teaching. I teach in the State of Illinois, we don't have tenure here. Hack off a school board member's child and you might just get fired. If you get two "Proficient" ratings in evaluation, you can be released. Note, "Proficient is the second highest rating you can earn. I just went through my evauation and know the stress of this new process. So, produce or your out for us. Oh, and I just lost 23% of my retirement per a vote at our state house.
My child wants to be a teacher and coach. I have told her no. Still, she is taking courses to be a teacher. Who would do this in the future? I love teaching and coaching. I would not recommend it for my student who now graduate. Why put up with all of the "stuff?"
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
I sure glad you don't teach at my son's school. what if teachers pay and job security where based on state testing in each subject? great teachers get paid more and the ones who can't lose their job. That's what it's like in my profession. You produce or your out.
So what exactly about my post do you not like enough to hope I never teach at your son's school? Because I agree with you - I wish we were paid on performance and I think that a union should fight for that instead of piss poor salaries for everyone. If we were paid on performance of test scores I would be in great shape. I was one of the best World History teachers in the state of NC last year. I took over an AP Psychology class last year and got kids to pass it which is the first time kids have passed it in about 4 years.
NC has a proposal right now that they are going to take tenure away from teachers by 2016 and go to a contract based employment. The current wording of the proposal has that they are going to give the top 25% of teachers a monetary incentive to give up tenure early then everyone else loses it. Two problems with this - 1) what 25% - state, district or individual school? Doesn't matter to me because I fit all three categories but if you go state then you are cutting out a ton of great teachers. 2) they say (right now) that when you give up tenure you get $500 the first year, another $500 added onto the second year for a total of $1000 and you will do this until you reach $5000. I'm all for that but the wording in the proposal is that the funding is only guaranteed for the first two years and after that we will see. What worker in any profession would openly agree to these types of conditions? Give up the only protection you have for smoke and mirror promises when a state has proven year after year they don't care about you. That's just not smart business thinking - period.
I'm all for accountability and the vast majority of good teachers are too. But it needs to make sense and is fair. People gripe and complain about how standardized testing is the devil yet five minutes later want us held accountable - well how else are you going to do it? I don't care what you come up with to hold us accountable but it's going to have it's flaws. The best way to do it is pre-test then post-test to show academic growth. Well that's a great idea until you see how much it costs to administer two tests. What if, through the magic of scheduling, you get a class full of low achievers / behavior problems? Does that factor into the accountability? I've had classes like this where I've taught my butt off and they still don't pass the tests but they show some growth - did I succeed? Should I be held accountable when my "product" doesn't want, and refuses, to learn? I get that kid who has a mom / dad find out they have cancer and end up dying in that school year - do I get held accountable for that kid not giving two squats about history? Do I get held accountable for me not giving two squats if that kid learns history or not because I won't but I'll do whatever I can to help that kid make it through this horrible time in their life?
It's not as easy as you "real world" professionals think it is.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Originally Posted by coach2709:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
so you think all learning disabilities are fake? i find that if the teacher can teach then all can learn. The struggle is I find to many teachers are lazy and expect the book to teach. My teachers may have been tough but the all taught and earned their pay.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Homeschooling is needed because of the teachers union trying to get a safety net for teachers who can teach. How about you get paid based on your performance?
You need to stick with whatever profession it is you're in and leave education to the professionals. The reason the world of education is messed up is everyone outside of it thinks they know how to do it better. You better believe SOME people fake learning issues (actually read what TPM posted and you'll see at no point did she say that learning issues are fake). These are the same people who hang out in the parking lot of games and wait until we stop taking money at the gate just so they don't have to pay $5 that goes to help kids get equipment to play the sports they want to play. Or sneak through the woods to get around the gate.You better believe we deserve a union just like any other worker's organization deserves one. Look back through history and actually understand the conditions that lead to the creation of unions. We don't ever want to go back there. You don't think it will happen because we're in the 21st Century? I grew up in southern West Virginia in the heart of coal mining country. My dad was a union miner his whole life and where we lived was strong union mines. My generation didn't understand how important the unions were and several mines started offering more pay to stop joining the unions. They took the money and the unions were broken. Now my buddies I grew up with tell me they can't watch their kids play sports because they are always at work. They now work a 10-12 hour shift and aren't able to call in to take days off or they will lose their job. Their whole life revolves around making that company money. That wonderful pay that enticed them to give up the union? Isn't there anymore. They basically froze wages after that.
I want a teachers union because I'm tired of the state screwing us over. Ever since I moved to NC my pay has been frozen. The cost of EVERYTHING has went up except for my pay. All because the government cannot balance a budget. So since they fail at their job I have to suffer. NC is a "right to work" state meaning a union cannot be created for state workers. Worst decision ever because we have no say in how we are treated - which is very poorly.
All this being said I do understand that unions can get out of hand and that is no good for anybody. But not having one is much worse. Something's wrong when people who have master degree's have to work a second job just to make ends meet. That means we really don't have summers off.
This is the most I've complained about my job situation. I know I have a choice in what I do for a living. I could change jobs and find something that pays better but I don't want to. I love teaching and I love coaching and I love trying to help kids be the best they can be or at least better than their idiot parents but it's not a bed of roses.
Edited to add - I've seen some home school kids who were much better off academically than their peers. But the vast majority of home schoolers I've taught who came into public school are so far behind academically, socially and lack maturity it almost borders on mental child abuse. They are normal kids who have a very difficult time functioning in normal situations because their parents thought they could do a better job than teachers. But that's just my experience - could be different for others. I readily admit that.
Of all the ignorant crap I've heard spew forth from dingbats on the internet that has to be one of the most asinine. I've spent most of my career as a production or facility manager. Yes if I don't produce I'm fired. My job is directly effected but the performance of others. However I can fire the worthless, the stupid, the lazy, those with bad attitudes, and on and on. For anyone in the private sector that wants to know what being a public school teacher is like. Let someone else pick all your employees for you and not be able to change it. Can you really not understand that. Good lord.
Originally Posted by coach2709:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
I sure glad you don't teach at my son's school. what if teachers pay and job security where based on state testing in each subject? great teachers get paid more and the ones who can't lose their job. That's what it's like in my profession. You produce or your out.
So what exactly about my post do you not like enough to hope I never teach at your son's school? Because I agree with you - I wish we were paid on performance and I think that a union should fight for that instead of piss poor salaries for everyone. If we were paid on performance of test scores I would be in great shape. I was one of the best World History teachers in the state of NC last year. I took over an AP Psychology class last year and got kids to pass it which is the first time kids have passed it in about 4 years.
NC has a proposal right now that they are going to take tenure away from teachers by 2016 and go to a contract based employment. The current wording of the proposal has that they are going to give the top 25% of teachers a monetary incentive to give up tenure early then everyone else loses it. Two problems with this - 1) what 25% - state, district or individual school? Doesn't matter to me because I fit all three categories but if you go state then you are cutting out a ton of great teachers. 2) they say (right now) that when you give up tenure you get $500 the first year, another $500 added onto the second year for a total of $1000 and you will do this until you reach $5000. I'm all for that but the wording in the proposal is that the funding is only guaranteed for the first two years and after that we will see. What worker in any profession would openly agree to these types of conditions? Give up the only protection you have for smoke and mirror promises when a state has proven year after year they don't care about you. That's just not smart business thinking - period.
I'm all for accountability and the vast majority of good teachers are too. But it needs to make sense and is fair. People gripe and complain about how standardized testing is the devil yet five minutes later want us held accountable - well how else are you going to do it? I don't care what you come up with to hold us accountable but it's going to have it's flaws. The best way to do it is pre-test then post-test to show academic growth. Well that's a great idea until you see how much it costs to administer two tests. What if, through the magic of scheduling, you get a class full of low achievers / behavior problems? Does that factor into the accountability? I've had classes like this where I've taught my butt off and they still don't pass the tests but they show some growth - did I succeed? Should I be held accountable when my "product" doesn't want, and refuses, to learn? I get that kid who has a mom / dad find out they have cancer and end up dying in that school year - do I get held accountable for that kid not giving two squats about history? Do I get held accountable for me not giving two squats if that kid learns history or not because I won't but I'll do whatever I can to help that kid make it through this horrible time in their life?
It's not as easy as you "real world" professionals think it is.
Your either accountable or your not. You seem to want it both ways.
Originally Posted by coach2709:
Edited to add - I've seen some home school kids who were much better off academically than their peers. But the vast majority of home schoolers I've taught who came into public school are so far behind academically, socially and lack maturity it almost borders on mental child abuse. They are normal kids who have a very difficult time functioning in normal situations because their parents thought they could do a better job than teachers. But that's just my experience - could be different for others. I readily admit that.
I've likened homeschool education to travel ball clubs. The potential is there to bring a student or player very far in a short amount of time but there needs to be a parent / coach who cares and knows what they are doing or seeks help when they don't.
Talking to other parents of public school kids I believe the kids are burnt out at an early age because of an inordinate amount of homework. Also teachers hands are tied to an extent because of school administrations that are more worried about not offending parents.
I invite you to visit hslda.org to find out what homeschool is really about.
How about the teacher who has ESL ( English as a second language) students in their class? Its an impossible situation, their test scores bring your class scores down and you have to spend so much time with them the other students suffer. You want to hold that teacher accountable?
Originally Posted by CoachB25:
Doc, then you are equally as outraged at the school board doing nothing and so, I know you are going there with these charges. If the administration is doing nothing, the school board is your next move and you won't let a teacher like that teach in your district. Of course you will have to provide some proof.
As far as grammar, I always say that my Grammar is fine and she lives in Kentucky.
Per teaching and coaching, those professions will always include peaks and valleys. The valleys seem so deep and the peaks don't seem to last long enough. Still, these are young lives we deal with. For myself, had it not been for one teacher and one coach, I don't think my life would have turned out so good. I was headed for major trouble and had already been in dozens of fights by the time I was a Junior in high school. I lived in a very bad area. I thank both of them for saving my life. That is what teachers and coaches can do. Again, both professions are ones that you must have a passion for and want to be there all of the time regardless of the valleys you will hit in doing so. There is no feeling better than having a former player come back and thank you for all that you did for them.
IMO, this thread might have run its course but I won't be the one to close it.
Take care all,
Darrell
The Board had their eye on this person for a while and finally did something. As for your coach and teacher looking out for you, I too had one teacher that got in my ear and gave me his wise honest opinion....I let him know every time I see him.
Originally Posted by Soylent Green:
Originally Posted by joes87:
Can we keep this to baseball?
Here's an off point response for you. Why do some people take it upon themselves to play traffic cop on this board? It's the HIGH SCHOOL Baseball Web. Any subject or direction that a conversation goes that is REMOTELY tangential to HIGH SCHOOL and/or BASEBALL is all good. Deal with it. If you've lost interest in the direction of a given thread, then here's an idea... go read a different thread, or start one, or post something new and different to try redirecting the thread you've lost interest in. Or go read a book, jog a mile, bake a cake. And if a little verbal conflict is what has you wringing your cyber hands, then go put on some big boy pants.
Couldn't have said it better myself...
Originally Posted by coach2709:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
so you think all learning disabilities are fake? i find that if the teacher can teach then all can learn. The struggle is I find to many teachers are lazy and expect the book to teach. My teachers may have been tough but the all taught and earned their pay.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Homeschooling is needed because of the teachers union trying to get a safety net for teachers who can teach. How about you get paid based on your performance?
You need to stick with whatever profession it is you're in and leave education to the professionals. The reason the world of education is messed up is everyone outside of it thinks they know how to do it better. You better believe SOME people fake learning issues (actually read what TPM posted and you'll see at no point did she say that learning issues are fake). These are the same people who hang out in the parking lot of games and wait until we stop taking money at the gate just so they don't have to pay $5 that goes to help kids get equipment to play the sports they want to play. Or sneak through the woods to get around the gate.
You better believe we deserve a union just like any other worker's organization deserves one. Look back through history and actually understand the conditions that lead to the creation of unions. We don't ever want to go back there. You don't think it will happen because we're in the 21st Century? I grew up in southern West Virginia in the heart of coal mining country. My dad was a union miner his whole life and where we lived was strong union mines. My generation didn't understand how important the unions were and several mines started offering more pay to stop joining the unions. They took the money and the unions were broken. Now my buddies I grew up with tell me they can't watch their kids play sports because they are always at work. They now work a 10-12 hour shift and aren't able to call in to take days off or they will lose their job. Their whole life revolves around making that company money. That wonderful pay that enticed them to give up the union? Isn't there anymore. They basically froze wages after that.
I want a teachers union because I'm tired of the state screwing us over. Ever since I moved to NC my pay has been frozen. The cost of EVERYTHING has went up except for my pay. All because the government cannot balance a budget. So since they fail at their job I have to suffer. NC is a "right to work" state meaning a union cannot be created for state workers. Worst decision ever because we have no say in how we are treated - which is very poorly.
All this being said I do understand that unions can get out of hand and that is no good for anybody. But not having one is much worse. Something's wrong when people who have master degree's have to work a second job just to make ends meet. That means we really don't have summers off.
This is the most I've complained about my job situation. I know I have a choice in what I do for a living. I could change jobs and find something that pays better but I don't want to. I love teaching and I love coaching and I love trying to help kids be the best they can be or at least better than their idiot parents but it's not a bed of roses.
Edited to add - I've seen some home school kids who were much better off academically than their peers. But the vast majority of home schoolers I've taught who came into public school are so far behind academically, socially and lack maturity it almost borders on mental child abuse. They are normal kids who have a very difficult time functioning in normal situations because their parents thought they could do a better job than teachers. But that's just my experience - could be different for others. I readily admit that.
My experience with home schoolers is the same. Generally, kids that become sheltered, and they don't know how to act in the real world. There are plenty of negatives to public schooling, but the world is not perfect. We are lucky in that our kids all go to nice, new schools, and if we lived in another area, maybe I would feel differently. However, public schools have been great for my kids, and I appreciate the fact that they have had to learn to live around kids that come from different backgrounds, economic levels, etc. Isn't that what they are going to have to do when they go to college and begin to work in the real world? Probably...
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Look, a teacher's job is no better or worse than most of the jobs out there. They all have issues. Like parents, customers complain all the time, for nonsense bs. You smile and do what you can to make the situation "right." But I think it is the "my way, or the highway," we know better than you, coach (teacher) is all ways right, no accountability attitude that gets people.
This does happen too, and I agree it is not taken very well. I wish all teachers and coaches had a true open door policy, but that just isn't the case, and it isn't necessary either.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Originally Posted by coach2709:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
so you think all learning disabilities are fake? i find that if the teacher can teach then all can learn. The struggle is I find to many teachers are lazy and expect the book to teach. My teachers may have been tough but the all taught and earned their pay.
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
Homeschooling is needed because of the teachers union trying to get a safety net for teachers who can teach. How about you get paid based on your performance?
You need to stick with whatever profession it is you're in and leave education to the professionals. The reason the world of education is messed up is everyone outside of it thinks they know how to do it better. You better believe SOME people fake learning issues (actually read what TPM posted and you'll see at no point did she say that learning issues are fake). These are the same people who hang out in the parking lot of games and wait until we stop taking money at the gate just so they don't have to pay $5 that goes to help kids get equipment to play the sports they want to play. Or sneak through the woods to get around the gate.
You better believe we deserve a union just like any other worker's organization deserves one. Look back through history and actually understand the conditions that lead to the creation of unions. We don't ever want to go back there. You don't think it will happen because we're in the 21st Century? I grew up in southern West Virginia in the heart of coal mining country. My dad was a union miner his whole life and where we lived was strong union mines. My generation didn't understand how important the unions were and several mines started offering more pay to stop joining the unions. They took the money and the unions were broken. Now my buddies I grew up with tell me they can't watch their kids play sports because they are always at work. They now work a 10-12 hour shift and aren't able to call in to take days off or they will lose their job. Their whole life revolves around making that company money. That wonderful pay that enticed them to give up the union? Isn't there anymore. They basically froze wages after that.
I want a teachers union because I'm tired of the state screwing us over. Ever since I moved to NC my pay has been frozen. The cost of EVERYTHING has went up except for my pay. All because the government cannot balance a budget. So since they fail at their job I have to suffer. NC is a "right to work" state meaning a union cannot be created for state workers. Worst decision ever because we have no say in how we are treated - which is very poorly.
All this being said I do understand that unions can get out of hand and that is no good for anybody. But not having one is much worse. Something's wrong when people who have master degree's have to work a second job just to make ends meet. That means we really don't have summers off.
This is the most I've complained about my job situation. I know I have a choice in what I do for a living. I could change jobs and find something that pays better but I don't want to. I love teaching and I love coaching and I love trying to help kids be the best they can be or at least better than their idiot parents but it's not a bed of roses.
Edited to add - I've seen some home school kids who were much better off academically than their peers. But the vast majority of home schoolers I've taught who came into public school are so far behind academically, socially and lack maturity it almost borders on mental child abuse. They are normal kids who have a very difficult time functioning in normal situations because their parents thought they could do a better job than teachers. But that's just my experience - could be different for others. I readily admit that.
I sure glad you don't teach at my son's school. what if teachers pay and job security where based on state testing in each subject? great teachers get paid more and the ones who can't lose their job. That's what it's like in my profession. You produce or your out.
I have an issue with what you are stating. What if the socioeconomic conditions don't lend themselves to high test scores. A great teacher may be able to improve their students' scores, but it may be unrealistic to expect great scores. A teacher can only do so much. It takes good parents, students, & teachers being engaged to have a success. Teachers cannot work miracles...
AAAAaaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!! This thread will DEFINITELY not make it into my book.
Folks, come on?
bb: Learn how to use the damned HSBBW tools and respond to a thread properly? Your posts make us WORK because you can't do it right. Figure it out!!
2709 and all other pro-union teachers: You are good and committed people -- we know that. But for God's sake: Your unions don't reflect your views. I WISH they did! Pay for PERFORMANCE?? Not gonna happen.
Home-schoolers - go for it. Whatever.
OP: YOU HAVE THE POWER!! Use it. Put the GD parents in their place. Others do, and so can YOU.
(Probably won't hasten the end to this wheels-off thread, but I gave it a shot).
I'm not sure how a thread goes from coach-parent issues to attacking teachers. Wow! What I've seen are several one size fits all, blanket statements from both sides. One size doesn't fit all. There are extremes on both sides of any spectrum. Most situations fall in the middle. Both of my kids had some mediocre teachers. I once had an administrator tell me she knows what's better for one of my kids than I do. That really ticked me off. Most of my kid's teachers were above average to excellent. Friends who spent 25k per year sending their kids to a prestigious private school said our high school's gifted program was better. My daughter wasn't good enough for the gifted program. She's still in an Ivy law school. Like baseball teams, school is what you make of it. It's what the kids make of it. It matters how much the parents pay attention to what's occurring in school. I'm not a fan of teachers unions. I'm not a fan of tenure. I'm not a fan of standardized testing. It can lead to teaching to the tests. Our school district was listed in the top twenty for our side of the state. The teachers are well compensated. Starting pay is 47k. Max is 94k. Average pay is 75k. The benefits package is beyond that of any business.
Originally Posted by rynoattack:
My experience with home schoolers is the same. Generally, kids that become sheltered, and they don't know how to act in the real world. There are plenty of negatives to public schooling, but the world is not perfect. We are lucky in that our kids all go to nice, new schools, and if we lived in another area, maybe I would feel differently. However, public schools have been great for my kids, and I appreciate the fact that they have had to learn to live around kids that come from different backgrounds, economic levels, etc. Isn't that what they are going to have to do when they go to college and begin to work in the real world? Probably...
I can speak from personal experience that our kids are better off being sheltered up to a certain age. Most of the people we knew that homeschooled did so for Christian reasons, basically wanting prayer and devotion as part of the learning environment. The integration into public school social atmosphere was tough for my kids at first but being resilient and having a firm base of morals after 10 yrs of homeschooling enabled them to be individualistic without the need to cave into peer pressure.
We sacrificed additional income, with my wife staying home, to make sure our kids were provided the best education possible with my wife and I being the private tutors. In addition just because you homeschool doesn't mean you live a cloistered life. My oldest son is an eagle scout. All my sons played baseball. My daughters are involved in 4H. IMO, homeschooling, if done correctly, is the best way.
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
Originally Posted by CoachB25:
Originally Posted by throw'n bb's:
My child wants to be a teacher and coach. I have told her no. Still, she is taking courses to be a teacher. Who would do this in the future? I love teaching and coaching. I would not recommend it for my student who now graduate. Why put up with all of the "stuff?"
Look man. Teaching is a good profession. And, at least in my area pays pretty darn well. I had a "heated discussion" with a teacher friend of mine during a strike. My wife was shocked at what I said. I bet her that my friend made as much as I did. She now owes me $100. She couldn't believe it.
You guys don't really know how good you do in fact have it. Is it perfect? No. Are there frustrations with the job? Yep. But welcome to every job I have ever had -- there is the good, the bad and the ugly. Bad bosses, bad employees, bad customers, government regulation, over worked, under paid and on and on. Remember, the grass is always greener over the septic tank.
I said in another post, "this is like talking politics or religion"....well I'll add this subject to that list....not sure if this thread or Dman's has turned more pathetic. I know...if I don't like it go somewhere else....I'll admit, it's entertaining somewhat.
My experience is bad teachers are no different than bad parents, both are plentiful, as is the opposite. We homeschooled our kids, and just recently entered BFSJr in HS, primarily just to play baseball....I don't know why in Texas homeschooled kids can't participate in HS sports for the district they belong to...Jr knows most of the boys in the area anyway from club ball....they sure won't give me my tax $ back for not utilizing the schools. In our case he was way ahead academically, and socially was zero challenge. I'm not sure why the hating, or labeling regrading homeschooled kids....in our case he is ahead of most, and was able to spend much of his added free time to work on his game.
For the OP, I feel your pain, and appreciate you coming here to vent. Most importantly, I hope that in spite of the wheels coming off your original intent, I hope that does not prevent you from posting again.
One last comment, for those of you slamming teachers, and questioning performance, please perform a spell check. It lessens your argument when discussing academia, and at the same time being grammatically inept. "they are" is not there, and "were" is not where...many other examples.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
So if I go to a teacher and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get an A?" I'm a good involved parent. But if I go to the coach and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get playing time?" I'm an A-hole helicopter parent. Got it. 
I find it funny that several posters are bitching about "the wheels coming off" of this thread, but yet they still add their two cents. If it is such a waste of time, and a mess, why don't you just move along? After all, by stating what a mess the thread is, you are trying to put yourself above those who are posting, but yet you are just as guilty...
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
So if I go to a teacher and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get an A?" I'm a good involved parent. But if I go to the coach and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get playing time?" I'm an A-hole helicopter parent. Got it.
There's another option: Let your son or daughter ask -- whether it's a class or a sport.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
So if I go to a teacher and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get an A?" I'm a good involved parent. But if I go to the coach and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get playing time?" I'm an A-hole helicopter parent. Got it.
Just by reading your posts I get the feeling you don't handle conversations with coaches or teachers very well.
I agree Ryno, apparently some find it worthy of conversation or they wouldn't be posting.
Originally Posted by 19coach:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
So if I go to a teacher and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get an A?" I'm a good involved parent. But if I go to the coach and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get playing time?" I'm an A-hole helicopter parent. Got it.
Just by reading your posts I get the feeling you don't handle conversations with coaches or teachers very well.
No. I handle them fine. In fact, never approached a coach regarding playing time. However, I don't buy into the fact that coaches/teachers are some all knowing wizards and are not to be questioned.
deleted. It doesn't matter.
Coachb25: I'm pretty sure I saw your post before you deleted it. I'd be proud, and fortunate to have Jr. call you "coach". Although never coached in HS, when I walked away from coaching teams, and decided to give lessons instead so I could follow son, my final game where I knew I'd never be the HC again after many years, I had my last "after game talk". While I did a very poor job of showing no emotion, I let these young men know that I hoped I might have touched their lives a fraction of how much they enriched mine. You Sir, touched many lives, and my suspicion is that you did so because your life was enriched more.
After being called husband, dad, and friend, being called "coach" is one of the best titles you can have.
I hate that you deleted your post.......it does matter.
Darrell would love to read your deleted post sounds like it was a good one.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by 19coach:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
So if I go to a teacher and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get an A?" I'm a good involved parent. But if I go to the coach and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get playing time?" I'm an A-hole helicopter parent. Got it.
Just by reading your posts I get the feeling you don't handle conversations with coaches or teachers very well.
No. I handle them fine. In fact, never approached a coach regarding playing time. However, I don't buy into the fact that coaches/teachers are some all knowing wizards and are not to be questioned.
http://mikematheny.com/mikes-blog/coach-always-right Just something to consider.
Back Foot Slider and 19Coach, I never know when I've crossed the line and so, I deleted that post. Every word of it was/is true. I'll paraphrase some of that post.
The statement was that we(Teachers/Coaches) don't know how good we have it. I have been a teacher for 28 years but I didn't start out as a teacher. I am a certified welder and worked in a factory for 5 years as a welder. All that time, I worked the midnight shift so that I could go to college during the day to become a teacher. That plant closed and so, I became a machinist. I worked as a machinist and as a member of the United Machinist and Aerospace Workers Union for four years. From there, I drove a truck, drove a forklift in a factory, and worked in two different types of foundries. I was a "no bake" technician in a casting foundry and a "specialist" in an aluminum foundry where I had top security clearance and wrote protocols for department of defense projects. From there I became the #1 salesman in the U.S.A. for the top division of Zales Corporation. These were great achievements for someone who was born the son of a sharecropper in Kentucky and of parents that were both illiterate. All that time, I was working midnight and evening shifts trying to earn my teaching degree. It took over a decade to do so. I don't know how good I have it?
In that time, I have received over a dozen teaching awards, have been recognized nationally for creating one of the first distance learning websites in this country, and have been nominated for national teaching awards. As a coach, I have won a couple of state titles and have coached the #1 team in the nation a couple of times. I have coached LL, HS and have coached internationally for the U.S.A. in the former Soviet Union and I don't know how good I have it?
There were other things I pointed out as well in that deleted post. Those things included being a mandated reporter and dealing with child abuse. Being called at all hours of the night to go to someone's home and intervene. I gave some example that maybe I should not have done. In short, I've physically fought parents, I've had a knife pulled on me and one of my players by a dad. I've have players that were cut come to my house to scare my family when they knew that I was away at games. Well, I've seen the worse in people.
When I'm told that I don't know how good I have it, I wonder how many times someone who would say that has been asked to speak at a funeral for one of their students and/or players? I have done that way too many times. In fact, it tears me up. Yet, how do you turn down a parent? I've seen my daughter clean out her old coloring books when she was in high school and break down crying. She came across a page in that coloring book colored by Erin. Erin played basketball for me. She died driving home to get ready for Homecoming. I spoke at Erin's funeral and have her picture up in my classroom. How do you speak at a funeral for one of your baseball players and sitting in the front row are 4 of his brothers that you coached?
Again, I was told I don't know how good I have it. Believe me, I know. I also know this, when you lose in the business world, you might lose a client. If I mess up in my profession, I lose a kid.
I apologize for the rant.
Take care,
Darrell
Edited to add:
In my deleted post, I mentioned that I always have students lined up at my door before school begins. One asked to get out of another class to talk to me. She is from the Ukraine and is a foreign exchange student. She wants to know why America has abandoned her country. She wants to know what will happen to her family? I don't have any of those answers. So she cries. Another day of teaching has begun. Although I know teaching is full of peaks and valleys, there are times like this when I don't have these answers that I feel like the greatest failure in the world.
Originally Posted by CoachB25:
Back Foot Slider and 19Coach, I never know when I've crossed the line and so, I deleted that post. Every word of it was/is true. I'll paraphrase some of that post.
The statement was that we(Teachers/Coaches) don't know how good we have it. I have been a teacher for 28 years but I didn't start out as a teacher. I am a certified welder and worked in a factory for 5 years as a welder. All that time, I worked the midnight shift so that I could go to college during the day to become a teacher. That plant closed and so, I became a machinist. I worked as a machinist and as a member of the United Machinist and Aerospace Workers Union for four years. From there, I drove a truck, drove a forklift in a factory, and worked in two different types of foundries. I was a "no bake" technician in a casting foundry and a "specialist" in an aluminum foundry where I had top security clearance and wrote protocols for department of defense projects. From there I became the #1 salesman in the U.S.A. for the top division of Zales Corporation. These were great achievements for someone who was born the son of a sharecropper in Kentucky and of parents that were both illiterate. All that time, I was working midnight and evening shifts trying to earn my teaching degree. It took over a decade to do so. I don't know how good I have it?
In that time, I have received over a dozen teaching awards, have been recognized nationally for creating one of the first distance learning websites in this country, and have been nominated for national teaching awards. As a coach, I have won a couple of state titles and have coached the #1 team in the nation a couple of times. I have coached LL, HS and have coached internationally for the U.S.A. in the former Soviet Union and I don't know how good I have it?
There were other things I pointed out as well in that deleted post. Those things included being a mandated reporter and dealing with child abuse. Being called at all hours of the night to go to someone's home and intervene. I gave some example that maybe I should not have done. In short, I've physically fought parents, I've had a knife pulled on me and one of my players by a dad. I've have players that were cut come to my house to scare my family when they knew that I was away at games. Well, I've seen the worse in people.
When I'm told that I don't know how good I have it, I wonder how many times someone who would say that has been asked to speak at a funeral for one of their students and/or players? I have done that way too many times. In fact, it tears me up. Yet, how do you turn down a parent? I've seen my daughter clean out her old coloring books when she was in high school and break down crying. She came across a page in that coloring book colored by Erin. Erin played basketball for me. She died driving home to get ready for Homecoming. I spoke at Erin's funeral and have her picture up in my classroom. How do you speak at a funeral for one of your baseball players and sitting in the front row are 4 of his brothers that you coached?
Again, I was told I don't know how good I have it. Believe me, I know. I also know this, when you lose in the business world, you might lose a client. If I mess up in my profession, I lose a kid.
I apologize for the rant.
Take care,
Darrell
Edited to add:
In my deleted post, I mentioned that I always have students lined up at my door before school begins. One asked to get out of another class to talk to me. She is from the Ukraine and is a foreign exchange student. She wants to know why America has abandoned her country. She wants to know what will happen to her family? I don't have any of those answers. So she cries. Another day of teaching has begun. Although I know teaching is full of peaks and valleys, there are times like this when I don't have these answers that I feel like the greatest failure in the world.
You where replying to my post. But I think you misunderstood it and got rather defensive. Your response proves my point -- teaching is a pretty good gig. You have obviously done some very important and successful things in your teaching career. You have positively effected the lives of thousands of kids. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. But like anything in life, it comes with its ups and downs -- bad situations, parents, taxpayers, school boards, etc.
My post was in response to telling your child (or any child) not to be a teacher. Your response is exactly why they should become teachers.
Originally Posted by 19coach:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by 19coach:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
I kind of find it ironic that the teachers want the parents to be involved (which leads to improved performance) but the coaches do not.
LOL. There's no playing time issue in the classroom, and that's what coach-parent issues come down too. I'm sure most coaches are totally fine with players getting extra work in away from the team. Just like teachers are fine with kids doing their homework and getting tutoring if needed. Now if your coach is teaching kids how to hit baseballs properly, and a parent teaches something totally cockamamie, like swinging with the dominant hand on the knob of the bat, then the coach may not appreciate that lack of support, just like the kid's biology teacher isn't going to appreciate a parent drilling a kid on Intelligent Design when he's teaching a unit about evolution.
So if I go to a teacher and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get an A?" I'm a good involved parent. But if I go to the coach and ask "what does Jimmy need to work on to get playing time?" I'm an A-hole helicopter parent. Got it.
Just by reading your posts I get the feeling you don't handle conversations with coaches or teachers very well.
No. I handle them fine. In fact, never approached a coach regarding playing time. However, I don't buy into the fact that coaches/teachers are some all knowing wizards and are not to be questioned.
http://mikematheny.com/mikes-blog/coach-always-right Just something to consider.
There is a very important distinction there. It is do as I say, not as I do. Certainly the message to my kid is that the coach/teacher is right and you must listen to and respect them.
However, as an adult with many years of life experiences I should be able to have my concerns about a teacher/coach addressed appropriately. In many cases, I am older than they are. I have been thru situations before. I can provide perspective their young minds may not have considered. I am talking about having an adult conversation, not being a raving lunatic.