Hitting According to the Count and Situation

Count and situation…

The better understanding a hitter has of pitching in general can help a lot.

Most pitchers will have their control pitch, their out pitch, and maybe a strike out pitch. Different situations pertain to the pitcher as well as the hitter. Finding out what these pitches are as soon as possible is a big advantage to a hitter. Often hitters know this before they even face a pitcher, especially at the MLB level. When a pitcher has three quality pitches he can command… you’re in trouble, but luckily not many of those types exist.

Usually a pitchers control pitch is the fastball. Thus a hitter should be thinking fastball in most counts. Some crafty guys will throw a slower speed fastball with a little sink on 2-0, 3-1 counts trying to get a ground ball. Knowing who does this can be a great advantage. Mike Boddiker made a living off the BP fastball with a little sink.

Knowing the pitcher is very important to a hitter and knowing the hitter is very important to a pitcher. IMO the pitcher is at an advantage when both have never seen each other.

Here is a philosophy that we might have used as a general guide. This is against most pitchers. Sometimes this could change. Example: pitcher has shown he starts most hitters with a curveball for a strike.

0-0 Look fastball
1-0 Look fastball
2-0 Look fastball
3-0 Look fastball
0-1 Look pitchers out pitch
0-2 Don’t chase
1-1 Look pitchers out pitch
1-2 Look pitchers K pitch
2-1 Look fastball
2-2 Look pitchers K pitch
3-1 Look fastball
3-2 Look fastball

This is very general and some might disagree, but there are 12 possible counts and at least 7 of them are fastball counts to a good hitter.

Whatever a pitchers best strike out pitch is… is what you’re likely to see with 2 strikes (could be FB, CB, SL, CH) This is the pitch he has with the best stuff! This is why some hitters will adjust to a 2 strike approach mentally and possibly physically. Often people talk about choking up, but I never liked that. Much prefer spreading out just a bit more. Some hitters even go less or no stride with 2 strikes on him. The mental approach can be to waste the best borderline pitches to thinking opposite field.

Pg,

I agree with a lot of what you say but here are a few points where I think differently.

On 1-1 and 2-2, (and we are discussing this in very general terms, because every pitcher is different) I do not generally look for the pitchers out pitch, because on 1-1 he doesn't want to get to 2-1 the same way he doesn't want to get to 3-2 from 2-2. I will usually look fastball for that reason in those counts but they are different because one count has two strikes. This takes me into my two strike approach...

My line of thinking here is that by the time I have reached two strikes I hope to have seen all that he can throw me. This being said, my approach will be to look for a fastball away and think about making contact up the middle/other way. Why look for a fastball away? Because I have to wait longer to hit a fastball away than a fastball in, and to hit any offspeed you have to wait. If I look for offspeed IMO I have no shot at hitting a fastball. This way I'm giving myself the opportunity to stay on offspeed while being able to catch up to fastballs.

You may ask what if he throws a fastball in? With two strikes you have to concede something, because you can't look for any pitch in any location.

As to choking up or spreading out with two strikes, I do both. The choking up part I got from reading The Science of Hitting by Ted Williams and from watching Barry Bonds everyday as a kid. Spreading out I developed in college, and when I hit a couple home runs on two strikes with that approach, I was sold. To me choking up gives you greater bat control and spreading out shortens my stride and allows me to see the ball just a bit longer. True, I am giving away some power, but like I said before, you have to concede something to the pitcher when you have two strikes.

As for my mental approach, I take a lot of pride in my two strike at-bats. I step out, take a deep breath, go through my same routine before every pitch, and tell myself that "this f***** is not going to strike me out." I am going to PUT THE BALL IN PLAY. I am going to make him get me out on a ball in play. There are a lot of holes out there, but its tough to find them if you don't put the ball in play. That comes back to the question of what about the inside pitch. I have put some really bad swings on inside fastballs with two strikes and I have broken many a bat that way, but I have also got my share of hits on those pitches. I could care less if it is a jam-shot, broken bat dinker over the third baseman's head, because a knock is a knock, and I know that I was able to get a hit because my approach was consistent and correct and I BATTLED WITH TWO STRIKES.

I get a lot of hits and a lot of walks using this approach. The two most important things to take from a two strike approach are MENTALITY and CONSISTENCY, in how you approach the at bat and how you stick with your gameplan of looking fastball away. You have to battle with two strikes, or the K's will pile up against you.

Great posts. I think another factor we need to think about is - Where am I hitting in the order? And does the pitcher know me and if he does what is my reputation or what is the book on me? I have seen good hitters struggle in showcase baseball because they are used to hitting in the 4 hole for example - and such they are used to being pitched a certain way. Now they are in the 8 hole and they are surprised or caught off balance by the way they are pitched. Understanding these types of things can go a long way imo.

Counts and how you approach the next pitch change by how you got in that count. You can say 1-0 look fastball. But what if that first pitch was a fb and your in the 4 hole? Is the pitcher going to try and throw another fb? He is probaly going to think Im sitting on that and now he is going to throw off speed for a strike. But lets say your in the 8 hole. Same situation. Is he going to take the chance of getting down 2-0 by throwing an off speed pitch to the 8 hole hitter? Probaly not so Im sitting on fb again. And then there are the number of outs and baserunners to consider.

Has the pitcher shown the ability to throw strikes with his off speed stuff? Has he doubled up with off speed pitches to other batters? Good hitters watch the game. They look for patterns and they look to see what the pitcher throws when he needs a strike , and out pitch etc etc.

In general, two strike routines don't work. The MLB batting average with two strikes isn't real good. What carries a hitter to two strikes puts him at the mercy of the pitcher.

One MLB hitting instructor commented..."if two strike routines work, use them in every count."

Over the course of a season, if you take your best swing at all counts you will be more successful than if you have a different approach with two strikes. Most hitters take thousands of swings at the end of a bat. Choking up is a different feel.

I'm not saying don't try to anticipate pitches, it increases your odds of getting a hit. I'm not saying don't take pitches the other way nor am I saying don't give up a part of the plate. I am focusing on spreading the legs and shortening the bat. Spreading the legs not only leads to double play balls, but the bat enters at a different angle into the hitting area.

baseballpapa,

There are definitely two schools of thought on this. It's my belief (I could be wrong) that most good hitters have a two strike approach that differs than their normal approach. Both mentally and physically.

The batting average with 2 strikes will always be much less than with 1 or 0 strikes. Your only out on strike three! You would have to chart the number of pitches that are swung and missed or taken for a strike on all counts to come up with any meaningful stat. I'm not sure but if we look at that stat, I'm thinking there will be fewer pitches missed or taken for a strike (strike 3) than any other count. There are also fewer balls hit well because of the different approach.

I disagree. First of all those stats are meaningless. Because you have no way of knowing who was using a two strike approach and who was not. It is very easy to get two strikes on you even when your using a great approach at the plate. For instance - First pitch deuce painted outside corner taken for a strike. 0-1 Second pitch fastball inside corner fouled off. 0-2 What have you done wrong to be in this 0-2 count? You did a good job taking the deuce. You took a nice cut on a fb you were looking for and just missed it. Now you have to battle your azz off. You go into "You are not going to put a K in that book besides my name mode". You find a way to put the ball in play. You widen up and shorten up. This approach works. It has worked for our players bigtime. Im all for looking to mash the heck out of the baseball untill we get two strikes. Then Im about making sure we make you make pitches and play defense. You have to have a tough mentality at the plate with two strikes. You have to take it personal imo.

Hey PGStaff,

I agree there are two schools of thought. Also, some hitters cannot or do not have a two strike routine because it didn't work for them.

I used to take a hard line against two strike routines. I'm in the middle now -- some can execute them and do better than if they didn't have a two strike routine, most hitters or at least a lot cannot. There is not enough time to make those adjustments.

Some don't either use it or wouldn't be improved by it. I would like to know the swing and miss stats with 2 strikes versus other counts, but I agree with Coach May, it may not mean much. I would think there are more or equal wiffs with 2 strikes because a pitcher had the ability to get the hitter there.

I still believe teaching all hitters 2 strike routines doesn't work. I also think only fast guys should even practice bunting for a base hit. In other words, it's different for different hitters. I'm not sure Manny even knows what the count is after 0-0. I've seen him take strike three and the umpire had to tell him he is out, and take ball four and have to be told he has first base.

If a hitter has less than 20% extra base hits to total hits and puts the ball in play more with a two strike routine, why not use the 2 strike routine earlier in the count? Also, do you really want Bonds or A-Rod with a guy on first taking a two strike approach by shortening up? Over the course of a season a power guy will do better by just looking for a pitch to drive in any count. All hitters have a greater chance of hitting into a double play if they take a shorter approach with a runner on first.

This is the meat and potatoes of the game from a hitting stand point.

The situations are many as are the approaches to each.

Starting with the probabilities and statistics garnered by the advanced scout, everything then falls to the batters talents, and as was stated, what is working for the pitcher that day.

Just the 'no runner', 'no out' scenario could be chapters depending on the batters ability to make contact and his propensity to strike out.

I may be wrong in this assumption, but this thread may be best presented without making reference to individual players and their talents. We can call them 'power guys', 'good contact hitters' or some generic term so as to address all players at any age.

.

I would have to ask myself, what job did I have when I came up to bat? What am I being paid to do? What is the game situation?

As a Coach, would I really want Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa, Ortiz, Bonds, etc., slapping a ball oppo in the beginning or middle of a game??? One swing and I could have a run.

As far as what pitch is swung and missed more often, I would have to say strike one. Lots of 0-1 hits and outs made before it ever gets to strike two.

As far as a hitter's normal routine, as someone said, good hitters watch the game to see what a pitcher is doing on all counts and looks for patterns. When you play a 162 game schedule it is possible to know how a pitcher has pitched you in the past, but in High School and younger, you don't have that luxury.

Is it possible to chart the other team's pitcher's pitches? Good thing for a not today Pitcher to do, ya think?

micmeister

Your final line is a key line-- we have our players watch the pitchers--our batters are continually discussing between themselveas the pitchers sequence of pitches--

From a players perspective, I always look fastball no matter what the count. When your patient at the plate you will always get at least 1 or 2 hittable fastballs.

Really funny

"I looked for the same pitch my whole career, a breaking ball. All of the time. I never worried about the fastball. They couldn't throw it past me, none of them."
Quote by Hank Aaron....

Beemax, can we get your comments on the above quote?

Why do you think Hank said this?....And, what do you think Hank was implying, as it goes against what most everyone on here is saying?

Bluedog there are guys that take that approach. Especially in HS. I have a couple of guys that can do just that and they absolutely rake. I also have guys that are blown away if they are not sitting on fb all the time. Different abilities mean different approaches. Everyone does not have the same skills at the plate.

Coach May, yes I agree........

I do think they would do better to work on getting better at hitting the fast stuff, though......

To become a great hitter, you gotta be able to hit speed........Then, and only then, should you learn how to hit offspeed, IMO.......

Bluedog I agree 100% with that statement. You must be able to hit the fastball in order to be a hitter. Here is the problem in HS. There are what I call threshold hitters. They can hit a fastball up to a certain velocity and then they are overmatched completely even when they are sitting fastball. It comes from playing inferior competition their whole life and then facing guys that over match them. The long swing and poor approach that was successfull against the lower level pitching will not allow them to have success against the better arms. I have seen pitchers sit at 83-85 and dominate 6 or 7 guys in a line up. What you try to do as a coach is teach guys a short swing that allows them to make contact. The fact is not everyone is capable of hitting a 90 mph fastball. And the fact is not everyone is capable of hitting a 85 mph fastball. So you learn to shorten the swing and make contact. I see these same pitchers that dominate with the mid 80's stuff get raked in the summer by line ups that have quality hitters 1-9. If you can not hit my fastball you wont get a chance to hit my offspeed. Why would I slow it down for you? Most hits against top flight pitchers in HS come from pitchers pitching down to the bat speed of the hitters.

Gamer Im glad you brought that up. I throw BP everyday. I mean at least 5 days a week sometimes 6 days a week. It is ridiculous how much better hitters kids become when they hit with wood. The flaws in the swing with metal are masked by the bat. The flaws in the swing with wood give you instant feedback. There is no doubt the more you hit with wood the better metal bat hitter you become. Swing the wood everyday. Hit the entire round of bp and all your t work soft toss etc with wood. Hit your last 5 or 6 swings only with metal. I will bet you those 5 or 6 swings will be so sweet. The ball will absolutely be mashed. Go back around and do the same thing with your metal bat. Get back in the cage with metal. Take 5 or 6 swings. They will not be nearly as clean and hit as sweet. Try it. Metal bats ruin hitters.

Baseballpapa,

I strongly disagree with the fact that two strike "routines" don't work.

Let me clear something up: I use the same "routine" before and after every pitch. My "approach" changes with each pitch. This "approach" is dictated by the pitcher, the count, the score, who's on base. IMO, if I took the same approach with two strikes as I took at 2-0, for example, my strikeouts would increase while my walks would decrease. Who is the MLB hitting instructor who you quoted?

You say choking up is a different feel...I completely agree. I feel that it gives me better bat control and as said before, I learned it from Ted Williams and Barry Bonds, so I'm going to stcik with it and teach it as well to others.

To quote you again "Spreading the legs not only leads to double play balls, but the bat enters at a different angle into the hitting area." Are you saying that if you spread out with two strikes, you will have more at bats with a runner on first and less than two out? (okay that was a joke) I'm guessing you are saying that more ground balls are hit when you spread out. Spreading out differs from guy to guy, so IMO you can't make a claim like that because "spreading out" means something different for each guy. For me, when i spread out, I am simply starting my stance where my stride ends with less than two strikes and I have no stride. So for you to say the bat enters a different angle into the hitting area when you spread out, i disagree again. I am in the same position I always am at the end of my stride, I just don't stride so I can see the ball that much better. My bat angle is the same.

BlueDog,

As to the Aaron quote, that obviously worked for him and is worth a try. I have tried it and been frozen by too many fastballs; I simply don't think I can hit with that approach. IMO, when Jake Peavey is on the mound throwing 95 mile an hour sinkers and nasty sliders, you better pick one or the other, because you can't sit on both pitches and react to both. If you want to try and sit slider and just react to the fastball, be my guest. I just know that for me, it doesn't work. Again, Aaron hit more homers than anyone (naturally), so I don't doubt that he used this approach. I just cant sit offspeed and react to the fastball.

quote:

"I looked for the same pitch my whole career, a breaking ball. All of the time. I never worried about the fastball. They couldn't throw it past me, none of them."
Quote by Hank Aaron....

Hank might have said this, but he didn't face Mariano Rivera. And I bet even old Hank would be looking for a fastball with the bases loaded and a 3-1 count. What ya think?

Hank Aaron

quote:

Guessing what the pitcher is going to throw is eighty percent of being a successful hitter. The other twenty percent is just execution.

quote:

"I looked for the same pitch my whole career, a breaking ball. All of the time. I never worried about the fastball. They couldn't throw it past me, none of them."
Quote by Hank Aaron....

If he always looked breaking ball, then why would he need to guess? One of these quotes are wrong... maybe both of them.

PG,

If I was facing Mariano Rivera, the situation and count pretty much go out of play because almost every pitch he throws is a cutter. As for my approach if I were to face him, I'm still working on that. If I ever make it to the show I just hope that he's retired I think Hank would be looking fastball as well 3-1 with the bases loaded, because I know I sure as hell would, but who knows?

quote:

Guessing what the pitcher is going to throw is eighty percent of being a successful hitter. The other twenty percent is just execution.

Did Hank say this?

Bluedog, He absolutely did say that. The two quotes are not conflicting to me. Also, it worked for him, doesn't mean it is a universal truth about hitting.

Beemax, I enjoy your posts, please keep them coming.

Here is my "support." Tom Robson coached the Mets and wrote "The Hitting Edge." His students included John Olerud, who wrote the forward. He also coached Piazza, Palmeiro, and I-Rod among others. On "Two-Strike Hitting" (p.66) he says the following (I'll shorten some of it)...
"The Major League average in 2002 with two strikes was .187. When hitters were 0-2, the average was only .159. It was .172 when 1-2, .189 when 2-2 and .226 when 3-2." [Papa note: Some say 3-2 is a "neutral" count, it is not neutral but is significantly below the MLB average BA.] Robson goes on to say..."traditionally, hitters have been taught to change their swings when they have two strikes. Suggestions such as choking up on the bat, widening out with no stride, moving closer to the plate, or crouching down to make the strike zone smaller are common. If a hitter thinks he can hit better doing some or all of these things, then he should hit that way every single time. The real culprit in the low average on a two-strike count is the mind."..."I do not like the strategy of changing mechanics with two strikes. What you can do is change your thinking."

Now he does talk about a different approach. He does take a different approach to the 2 strikes, but only to a degree.

Baseballpapa,

First, I also do enjoy your posts, thanks for the feedback.

I think that Hank's quotes are conflicting. I don't see how he can say he looked offspeed every pitch and guess...IMO that is a contradiction.

I completely respect Tom Robson and his opinion. He was a big leaguer and I'm sure he's a fine hitting instructor. However, I will again go back to Ted Williams, because I have more respect for him and his theories than anyone else. Ted was an advocate of choking up with two strikes because he felt it gave him that much more control of the bat. I feel that it diminishes my power a bit, but Barry Bonds doesn't feel that way, so he chokes up all the time. IMO Bonds and Williams are the two best hitters of all time, steroids aside. They combined power, patience, production and overall bat handling better than anyone ever has IMO. Here's a quick stat as well:

Ted Williams: 2021 career walks 709 carrer K's (most strikouts in one year-64 his rookie year)

Barry Bonds: 2556 career walks 1539 career K's (only struck out over 100 times once-102 K's his rookie year)

Ted Robson: 48 career MLB at-bats 5BB, 6K's

Again, I am not taking anything away from Robson, he was a big leaguer and I am not (I hope to be), but IMO The Science of Hitting is the single greatest hitting book ever written, and the Ted that wrote that book advocates choking up.

For me, it is a mental thing to choke up and widen out as well as physical. It reminds me to see the ball long, stay short, and BATTLE!

On all but 2 strike counts, a strike just changes the count. A hitter will go 1 for 1, 0 for 1 or 0 for 0, but will never strike out on those counts.

On all 2 strike counts, a swing and miss or a called strike makes the hitter 0 for 1.

The 3-2 count would naturally have the highest of all 2 strike batting averages. This of course is due to the pitcher having to throw a strike or the hitter goes 0 for 0 in that AB.

If we took the average number of strike outs of a major league hitter, and subtracted that from his (outs) we would have a completely different batting average. That would be the BA in all other counts that a strike out can not cause an out or 0 for 1 AB. If we give hitters 4 strikes, there 2 strike batting averages would be much higher.

I think most hitting coaches believe in some kind of 2 strike approach. Even if its no more than a mental approach rather than a physical approach.

I personally like the lesser or for some no stride (spread out) 2 strike approach that beemax says he uses. A hitter doesn’t have to change his swing with this approach. He explained why! The other disadvantage of 0-2, 1-2, and 2-2 is the hitter can not be as selective regarding location. So IMO spreading out allows more plate coverage and less power unless the ball is in the wheel house.

BTW, (everybody’s favorite) Jose Canseco would spread out and pick his stride foot up set it down and rip with 2 strikes.

I can’t answer why a hitter wouldn’t use this approach all the time other than it is based on being able to better handle 2 strike pitches.

If you have a good feel for what the pitcher wants to throw, sure it is an advantage against good pitchers......That will be a sometimes thing, though.....If the feel isn't there, don't try to guess.......

Great hitters are very good at two things, IMO....They can clear their mind and they can make late swing adjustments better than others.....If their feel is off, they can still hit the ball hard....

Being able to hit high speed would surely free you up more to guess on pitches.....

PG: I really wanted to see the response to the quotes more than I cared about supporting what I said. PG you could have added one more thing. What would the on-base % be for a hitter with a 3-2 count? I would image more hitters walk after a count with 3 balls than a count with less than 3 balls.

I used to teach my hitters to simply look for a pitch to drive and don't worry about count. I do believe that what gets them to 2 strikes is what puts them at such a disadvantage but your explanation is really good as to the BAs at 2 strikes, it is simply one more possibility of an out that less than 2 strikes don't have. Over the course of a season, if all my players were at the plate to drive what they could and let all others go by, we would score.

Beemax, I think any player that has ever been drafted or signed a pro contract is one of the best players of all time. I see a sea of kids on a little league field and think "only 9 are good enough to play much high school ball...to play professionally is amazing."

Choking up makes no sense to me. Why not get a shorter bat and use the knob for leverage (although not much leverage)? Also, most pitchers are aiming low and away when ahead in the count yet the hitter makes the bat shorter. The extra bat inside the hands cannot speed up the rotation and would have to cause some drag. The extra weight of the bat behind the hands would not contribute to much force when hitting the ball. It justs seems like a waste.

People miss a major point that I've made on this board before, the AVERAGE major league player has 33% of his hits result in extra-base hits. If you are an average runner and average on defense, you better match that. If you have a lot of foot speed you don't need to hit for so much power. Shortening the stroke doesn't give many this percentage and thus they play in another league.

This whole topic could get pretty deep and I hope it does.

The 2 strike approach is just one topic, but it is just part of the whole equation.

Please forgive if you disagree (and I already know some will disagree), but IMO a hitter needs to have a no strike approach just as much as a 2 strike approach. And even further, a 1-1, 2-1 approach, 3-1 approach and so on.

Then that’s still only part of it. The situation can change the approach no matter what the count. If a hitter is leading off an inning, or hitting with no runners on base and 2 outs, or hitting with a big run at 3B with less than 2 outs, or a runner at 2B with 0 outs and any number of situations.

So there may be times with 2 strikes where it would be well worth giving up the normal 2 strike approach in order to increase the chance for a HR or extra base hit. Just as a hitter might “look” for the pitch to pull (LH hitter) or hit the other way (RH hitter) in some situations.

And it is true that there are some hitters who do not change based on situation. These are usually the big bangers who hit tons of HRs. IMO There are only a few of those types in the Big Leagues. Everyone else to a certain extent is a situational hitter. That is because the most important thing is to win games at that level. If it were any other way, why are there situations where they have hitters sac bunt? BTW, there have been some outstanding power guys who were also good situational hitters. Guys who will go the other way when the situation/percentages calls for it. Being a situational hitter does not mean in the least a Punch and Judy type guy.

The other difference with 2 strikes we haven’t yet hit on is all about percentages. Anything that increases the chance of contact is much more important with 2 strikes. Being able to use the whole field becomes more important. 2 strikes does put a hitter in a more defensive mode because of the undeniable advantage the pitcher has with 2 strikes on a hitter, over less than 2 strike counts. With less than 2 strikes, the hitter can be more in an attack mode. This is all about playing the percentages, more than dealing with the mechanics of the swing.

Hey, these are just my opinions… Haven’t been offered any MLB hitting coach jobs lately. But this stuff is fun to talk about. Truth is, I enjoy reading what most everyone's opinions are.

I think most players cannot hit 33% extra-base hits and would therefore have to be more situational. I agree with you, I think most do have a different approach by position in batting order, situation of the game, etc. I trained my son when he was younger to be a two-hole hitter because he was small for his age. We worked bunting to both sides of the plate, ground balls to the right side, sac flys, etc. He developed so much power none of his select or high school coaches would bunt him. I told them he was the best bunter I ever coached, but they looked at me and laughed when I told them he could bunt for them.

One coach told me a homerun is often a rally killer. I agee. If your down late, and by a lot of runs, you need base runners. A solo shot does nothing but let you lose by one less run. This would require a different approach at the plate.

Routines that adjust are not a problem as long as they lead to runs. I do think, like in any sport, you can overadjust. I saw hitters this summer in one college league just trying not to K. That's what most of them do with 2 strikes, that's why most 2 strike routines don't work. Also, the numbers pretty much show that the 2 strike approach being used doesn't work.

There is another possibility. Two strike routines work in the minor leagues, but a greater percentage of those who don't use them get to the major leagues. I'm willing to bet this is probably true because of the focus on power.

I didn't mean... just trying to make contact. I really didn't even mean being a defensive hitter because that doesn't work. What I meant was that the 2 strike pitch is "more" of a defensive position than less than 2 strikes. The best pitchers prove this every time out. With 2 strikes sometimes a pitchers best pitch has to be fouled off to stay alive. If the pitcher makes a mistake and hits your spot... attack!

Most good hitters are not only looking for a certain pitch they are also looking for a certain location. With two strikes you do not have this luxury as a hitter.

I think that in some ways, most of the best hitters could be called situational hitters. That doesn't mean they don't hit for power. I'm also sure that some of the very best hit exactly the same way no matter what the situation is. Now, how do we determine for sure which is the best way to go about it?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I didn't mean... just trying to make contact. I really didn't even mean being a defensive hitter because that doesn't work. What I meant was that the 2 strike pitch is "more" of a defensive position than less than 2 strikes. The best pitchers prove this every time out. With 2 strikes sometimes a pitchers best pitch has to be fouled off to stay alive. If the pitcher makes a mistake and hits your spot... attack!

Most good hitters are not only looking for a certain pitch they are also looking for a certain location. With two strikes you do not have this luxury as a hitter.

I think that in some ways, most of the best hitters could be called situational hitters. That doesn't mean they don't hit for power. I'm also sure that some of the very best hit exactly the same way no matter what the situation is. Now, how do we determine for sure which is the best way to go about it?

Your MLB contract decides how you go about it in the Majors. Below that, your Coach decides. What his philosophy is will dictate how you prepare your swing in the cage and how well you get that job done will determine if you play or not.

quote:

Your MLB contract decides how you go about it in the Majors.

mic,

Its probably just me, but what do you mean?

PG,

It's not just you...I'm trying to decipher that comment as well. My coach has never swung the bat for me with two strikes, and none of my friends in the big leagues have ever told me about their "two stike approach clause" in their contract.

I think he might be saying, if your swing got you to the Majors, then no one at that level is going to tell you to use a different (than what brought him to that level) approach in two strike situations.

But, on the way to getting at that level (minors), you're going to get the organizational philosophy.

Just trying to guess/interpret, not sure.

Well, if a MLB player's contract has incentives which revolve around homeruns, or slugging percentage, then presumably the player is more concerned with the long ball than with OBP or batting average or moving the runner. If so, the two strike approach would likely be "swing hard".

Why would a club want this approach? Because baseball is an entertainment business, and many fans aren't at the park to watch an intelligent approach to two strike hitting. Quite a few casual fans, the folks who occasionally come to games, are there for the spectacle, and don't much care who wins. We Giants fans can see this effect this year.

3Fingered,

P's me off when someone comes up with a valid point. Guess if they have a big incentive in my contract for hitting 40 HRs, I might be tempted to forget the 2 strike approach. Actually I wouldn't because IMO I think you are more likely to hit a HR with 2 strikes by using this approach. Simply because you will strike out less and have more chances to get a pitch (mistake) down the middle. The 2 strike approach doesn't mean you automatically can't hit one out of the park.

Also I think most incentives are geared towards winning and overall performance (ie. making the all star team, etc.) than simply hitting HRs. Can you imagine what it would be like if everyone on the roster had incentive clauses for hitting lots of HRs without any incentive for batting average? What do you mean move the runner up coach? My contract doesn't call for bunting? Why should I stop at third on a triple?

Great thread!

I just wanted to add what Chipper Jones said a few days ago when interviewed about the possibility of winning the NL Batting Crown. Especially the part about Edgar Renteria.

“What amazes me are the guys like the Hanley Ramirezes, the Chase Utleys, the Matt Holidays who are relatively new on the scene, being able to sustain that kind of offensive production at such a young age," Jones said. "I marvel at them because they're so far ahead of me at a younger age."

About Edger Renteria

"I hope if it doesn't come my way, it does his," Jones said. "I say this because he's sacrificed himself so many times for me and the team. He's given away an at-bat here and there so he can get a runner over to third with less than two outs, so that I can get an RBI, so the team can jump on top."

Jones said he tries to focus on the situation each at-bat, rather than worrying about upping his average with multihit games.

These next two nights were important for him since the Marlins are more likely to pitch to him than the Brewers or Phillies. "They're playing for their playoff lives," Jones said. "They're going to be trying like crazy to hit their spots and trying like crazy not to let guys like me beat them. That's one of the good things about having [Mark] Tex[eira] here, you don't want to come see me, you've got to go see him."

THop

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Well, if a MLB player's contract has incentives which revolve around homeruns, or slugging percentage, then presumably the player is more concerned with the long ball than with OBP or batting average or moving the runner. If so, the two strike approach would likely be "swing hard".

Why would a club want this approach? Because baseball is an entertainment business, and many fans aren't at the park to watch an intelligent approach to two strike hitting. Quite a few casual fans, the folks who occasionally come to games, are there for the spectacle, and don't much care who wins. We Giants fans can see this effect this year.

This is exactly what I mean. If you are in the Majors, you were hired for a reason. They do not want Bonds swinging just to make contact with two strikes, the fans came to see him hit HRs. Your contract will be laid out well enough that you can decipher what they want.

THop

Great post with the quotes from Chipper. IMO the most important thing said and most valid point to this thread was:

"Jones said he tried to focus on the SITUATION each at-bat, rather than worrying about upping his average with multihit games."

The thing about that approach is, if you go into each at-bat with a solid plan, (an approach to that at-bat based on what you have seen from the pitcher, what the situation is in the game, etc.) IMO you will hit your best. The numbers will take care of themselves with this approach.

Keep in mind that mechanics are out the window when you get into the batter's box. That is where all the hard work before and after games and during practice comes into play. You must rely on your muscle memory and go up to the plate with a solid mental approach. Don't get me wrong here, mechanics play a huge part in the swing, but you cannot think about your mechanics during your at-bat; if you do you will lose your focus on the job you have to accomplish.

The number of situations are endless but here is an example of one.

Runner on third base, less than two out, score tied late in the game.

Going up to the plate, what should be going through my head?
-Get a pitch up in the zone.
Why? Infield will be playing in and you want to get the ball in the air, if not a base hit to the outfield then a sac fly at the least.
-If I get a pitch up in the zone, what am I going to try and do with it.
Attack it! Hit it hard and get it airborne!

In this situation I will most likely be looking for a fastball up in the zone, but the pitch you look for always varies with the pitcher. If the guy throws a lot of first pitch breaking balls, then I might look for a breaking ball up first pitch, then go back to the fastball.

This year I hit significantly higher with runners on base. IMO this was because 99% of the time I knew exactly what my goal was with runners on (Move him from second to third with no outs, score him from third with less than two outs, etc.) and I knew what APPROACH I had to take to accomplish that goal. Many times when all you think about is "Okay, runner on second, nobody out, get a pitch to hit to right field and attack it," all of a sudden you have a base hit to right field and an RBI because you hit ACCORDING TO THE SITUATION. Your only goal was to get him to thrid and surprise! You ended up getting the job done and a little more because you took a winning hitter's approach and you didn't just think "Hit a home run." This is just a piece of the mental hitting puzzle, but hopefully you will see that behind each successful at bat and each good hitter is a sound and disciplined approach to each at bat. Just like Chipper Jones