TripleDad,
I’m sure every one of us is a little different in what we teach and how we teach it (especially semantics). But in my opinion, beemax started the best hitting thread I have seen since I bought my computer in 99. I want to be careful not to miss the opportunity to further the importance of the mental side of hitting. Especially in teenagers.
For the record, the following is what I have taught my high school hitters in North Atlanta for the last 10 years. Keep in mind that my kids are from one school and are often undisciplined. I refer the really good ones to Guerry Baldwin at East Cobb.
We rehash/reinforce the following "mental skills" every day in the cages and on the field BP. We mostly work on physical swing mechanics in the cage and tee stations.
Situational hitting skills
1. Bunt direction
2. Sac bunt
3. Drag bunt
4. Squeeze bunt
5. Push bunt
6. Slug/butcher boy bunt
7. Hit and Run play
8. Hit behind the lone runner at 2b with no outs
9. Score the runner from 3b with the infield in (sac fly)
10. Score the runner from 3b with the infield back (hit it up the middle)
Other mental hitting skills
11. Anticipate and capitalize on the fastball counts of 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-0, 3-1.
12. Anticipate and capitalize on the fastball situations-First pitch after a mid inning pitching change, 1st pitch after an embarrassing off speed pitch, every pitch when the runner at first base is a serious threat to steal, most pitches to the 8,9 hitter.
Strike zone judgment
13. Pulling middle-in strikes.
14. Hitting middle-out strikes hard the other way.
15. Two strike swing or "approach".
16. Check swing- reverse hips in order to get hit with a pitch safely.
17. Discretely shrink strike zone when asked to “take” a pitch for the team (crowd plate, widen stance, take longer stride, hold it for 1 second).
18. Stand tall while the runner is stealing 3b (right handed batter)
THop
PS, I also teach the undisciplined ones to lay off all curve balls until they get two strikes but realize they will eventually have to learn to hit them too.
Mic,
First, my apologies for being out of the loop for the last few days.
To your quote (and again my apologies for not figuring out how to post quotes like everyone else. I am on a Mac and don't know how to yet):
I never claimed to be an expert either, I just take what MLB players say to be truthful. I guess you don't. But, Larry Walker (in his own words), said, "I don't think about what the Pitcher has, or who he is, I just see it and hit it. Sometimes I'll be singing Garth Brooks songs in my head or thinking how goofy that Pitcher looks, but most of the time I don't think about anything." That's what the man said and I take him at his word. Todd Helton believes what he said, so....! Tony Gwynn said he tried to hit the ball with the knob of the bat, I believe him, some on here don't. It is true that you have an advantage that you can experience your philosophy 1st hand and will get instant feed back on the results, but you don't have to have played to teach. John Madden never played Pro Football, but I'd say he was a pretty good Coach in the NFL and still makes a pretty good living being an ANALYST.
In response to this, first of all, I DO take what MLB players say to be truthful. To say that I don't is a cheap shot IMO and I don't appreciate it. IMO basing any teaching on proper thinking at the plate with that Larry Walker quote is wrong (not saying that you do). Maybe he was singing Garth Brooks songs in his head, but I am a percentage guy, and IMO the number of guys that do think up at the plate in the Majors far outweighs those that don't. I also believe you don't have to have played to teach, but I know that I am a much better teacher myself for having the experience I do.
As for John Madden, at least he did play college football and learned the game coaching with other great coaches in the NFL. The NFL (and the NBA for that matter) is a different animal than MLB, for you don't have to have had pro experience to lead a team. MLB is different. Name me any coach or manager in the Major Leagues who has never played pro ball. I think that track record speaks volumes. The NBA and NFL are much more games of X's and O's than baseball. Baseball is a very mental game. It's awfully easy to sit in front of the TV and second guess a guy for doing something wrong at the plate, but until you have been there at a pro level IMO you cannot get the full grasp on it. Study what they say; I believe you that Larry Walker said that, but also look up others (Ted Williams immediately comes to mind). I am very lucky to have the experience I have and I look forward to gaining more and learning more.
As for guessing at the plate, unless the pitcher tells you what's coming or is tipping his pitches, what else can you do? To me, guessing is anticipating. Not just picking any pitch to look for with no reason. Like I said before, I can't look fastball, curveball, changeup, etc. each pitch. There are too many variables there. My best success comes when I pay attention to the pitcher and the game so when I get to the plate I can make an educated guess as to what he will throw and then sit on it for that pitch, and go from there until I get to two strikes.
Sorry for the rant THop, I don't want to take the focus off of your last post. I just didn't have internet the past week and had to respond to that.
First, my apologies for being out of the loop for the last few days.
To your quote (and again my apologies for not figuring out how to post quotes like everyone else. I am on a Mac and don't know how to yet):
I never claimed to be an expert either, I just take what MLB players say to be truthful. I guess you don't. But, Larry Walker (in his own words), said, "I don't think about what the Pitcher has, or who he is, I just see it and hit it. Sometimes I'll be singing Garth Brooks songs in my head or thinking how goofy that Pitcher looks, but most of the time I don't think about anything." That's what the man said and I take him at his word. Todd Helton believes what he said, so....! Tony Gwynn said he tried to hit the ball with the knob of the bat, I believe him, some on here don't. It is true that you have an advantage that you can experience your philosophy 1st hand and will get instant feed back on the results, but you don't have to have played to teach. John Madden never played Pro Football, but I'd say he was a pretty good Coach in the NFL and still makes a pretty good living being an ANALYST.
In response to this, first of all, I DO take what MLB players say to be truthful. To say that I don't is a cheap shot IMO and I don't appreciate it. IMO basing any teaching on proper thinking at the plate with that Larry Walker quote is wrong (not saying that you do). Maybe he was singing Garth Brooks songs in his head, but I am a percentage guy, and IMO the number of guys that do think up at the plate in the Majors far outweighs those that don't. I also believe you don't have to have played to teach, but I know that I am a much better teacher myself for having the experience I do.
As for John Madden, at least he did play college football and learned the game coaching with other great coaches in the NFL. The NFL (and the NBA for that matter) is a different animal than MLB, for you don't have to have had pro experience to lead a team. MLB is different. Name me any coach or manager in the Major Leagues who has never played pro ball. I think that track record speaks volumes. The NBA and NFL are much more games of X's and O's than baseball. Baseball is a very mental game. It's awfully easy to sit in front of the TV and second guess a guy for doing something wrong at the plate, but until you have been there at a pro level IMO you cannot get the full grasp on it. Study what they say; I believe you that Larry Walker said that, but also look up others (Ted Williams immediately comes to mind). I am very lucky to have the experience I have and I look forward to gaining more and learning more.
As for guessing at the plate, unless the pitcher tells you what's coming or is tipping his pitches, what else can you do? To me, guessing is anticipating. Not just picking any pitch to look for with no reason. Like I said before, I can't look fastball, curveball, changeup, etc. each pitch. There are too many variables there. My best success comes when I pay attention to the pitcher and the game so when I get to the plate I can make an educated guess as to what he will throw and then sit on it for that pitch, and go from there until I get to two strikes.
Sorry for the rant THop, I don't want to take the focus off of your last post. I just didn't have internet the past week and had to respond to that.
beemax,
First, I wasn't trying to take a cheap shot, but I guess I did make a smart **s remark. The statement has been made on here before, that "it is amazing how people that can hit, don't know how they do," I just figured from your comments that you were of that school of thought. If you are not, I appologize for those assumptions. As I said before, I appreciate the perspective you bring as a player and wish every day that I could have had that chance. Having said that though, this is the high school baseball web and I teach High School and younger kids. I have said on here before, that I would not even attempt to try and teach a Professional player. It would be kind of like having a Nurse operate on you, she may have studied it and know what to do, but I'd rather stake my life on the one who has.
There is nothing I've said on this site that won't help a High School or younger player to be successful. I believe for a High School or younger hitter, timing is the biggest thing to master and the more simple the swing can be made, the more successful they will be. When a Scout sees a player, they see the potential in an athlete, but they have to be successful at their level to even get a look. I just believe that when a young player tries to guess what a Pitcher is going to throw while he is at the plate, he is trying to "operate" without the knowledge or the experience to be successful. There will be certain Pitchers that they will have faced enough to have the needed information, but for the most part, you will only face one Pitcher one time in your career.
First, I wasn't trying to take a cheap shot, but I guess I did make a smart **s remark. The statement has been made on here before, that "it is amazing how people that can hit, don't know how they do," I just figured from your comments that you were of that school of thought. If you are not, I appologize for those assumptions. As I said before, I appreciate the perspective you bring as a player and wish every day that I could have had that chance. Having said that though, this is the high school baseball web and I teach High School and younger kids. I have said on here before, that I would not even attempt to try and teach a Professional player. It would be kind of like having a Nurse operate on you, she may have studied it and know what to do, but I'd rather stake my life on the one who has.
There is nothing I've said on this site that won't help a High School or younger player to be successful. I believe for a High School or younger hitter, timing is the biggest thing to master and the more simple the swing can be made, the more successful they will be. When a Scout sees a player, they see the potential in an athlete, but they have to be successful at their level to even get a look. I just believe that when a young player tries to guess what a Pitcher is going to throw while he is at the plate, he is trying to "operate" without the knowledge or the experience to be successful. There will be certain Pitchers that they will have faced enough to have the needed information, but for the most part, you will only face one Pitcher one time in your career.
beemax,
LOL. No problem. I’d rather read your posts than mine anyway. Keep em coming.
THop
LOL. No problem. I’d rather read your posts than mine anyway. Keep em coming.
THop
quote:In my opinion, situational hitting is taught (and expected) by EVERY college and professional hitting coach (as well as the better high school coaches) in America. And I have never been to a MLB academy in Latin America, but would bet good money it is included there as well.
I agree with what THop posted above. I think some feel situational hitting is for those who can't hit. To a certain degree I would agree with that, except in baseball (we all know) nobody can really hit to a high percentage. Some obviously hit much better than others.
One of the most fascinating things about baseball is the percentages. I don't know any way that a player can grow up and make it to the top without being exposed to situational hitting along the way.
Also, not sure I understand why the hitter looking for a fastball in a certain location would be likely to chase a pitch outside the zone. Wouldn't he be less likely to chase that pitch?
I'm trying very hard to understand everyone's reasoning here, but if you have no strikes on you, are you better if...
1 - You look for a fastball in a certain location or zone.
2 - You are ready to hit any of three or four pitches that might be called a strike.
Which way are you most likely to get yourself out?
Anyway, I agree with those who say this is truly a great thread. It causes us to think, what a unique concept!
Would a hit and run be "situational hitting"? If so, there is a case where you might have to swing at a pitch you otherwise would take. I hate hit-and-runs! Especially when my Son is at the plate!
Sure, a hit and run is situational hitting. Personally, I enjoy when my manager gives me a hit and run, but it varies from player to player, dad to dad
The most important things to try and do on a hit and run are as follows:
1. Make a conscious effort to keep the ball out of the middle of the field. Why? Because either the second baseman or the shortstop is going to cover second, and it can turn into a quick double play. If you are left handed, the shortstop will usually cover second on a hit and run. If you are right handed, the second baseman usually covers.
2. Next, you have to swing at anything that isn't a ball in the dirt or a pitchout. Remember, the coach gave you the sign, so the guesswork is out. You have to swing.
3. Try to get on top of the ball. A fly out does not work with a hit and run. At the least you want the runner to move to second, and ideally, you want him at third. A ground ball/line drive in the vacated area by the middle infield is ideal.
The most important things to try and do on a hit and run are as follows:
1. Make a conscious effort to keep the ball out of the middle of the field. Why? Because either the second baseman or the shortstop is going to cover second, and it can turn into a quick double play. If you are left handed, the shortstop will usually cover second on a hit and run. If you are right handed, the second baseman usually covers.
2. Next, you have to swing at anything that isn't a ball in the dirt or a pitchout. Remember, the coach gave you the sign, so the guesswork is out. You have to swing.
3. Try to get on top of the ball. A fly out does not work with a hit and run. At the least you want the runner to move to second, and ideally, you want him at third. A ground ball/line drive in the vacated area by the middle infield is ideal.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:quote:In my opinion, situational hitting is taught (and expected) by EVERY college and professional hitting coach (as well as the better high school coaches) in America. And I have never been to a MLB academy in Latin America, but would bet good money it is included there as well.
I agree with what THop posted above. I think some feel situational hitting is for those who can't hit. To a certain degree I would agree with that, except in baseball (we all know) nobody can really hit to a high percentage. Some obviously hit much better than others.
One of the most fascinating things about baseball is the percentages. I don't know any way that a player can grow up and make it to the top without being exposed to situational hitting along the way.
Also, not sure I understand why the hitter looking for a fastball in a certain location would be likely to chase a pitch outside the zone. Wouldn't he be less likely to chase that pitch?
I'm trying very hard to understand everyone's reasoning here, but if you have no strikes on you, are you better if...
1 - You look for a fastball in a certain location or zone.
2 - You are ready to hit any of three or four pitches that might be called a strike.
Which way are you most likely to get yourself out?
Anyway, I agree with those who say this is truly a great thread. It causes us to think, what a unique concept!
Just to clarify my position on situational hitting. You have to hit according to the situation. If you need a base hit and they are giving you a huge gap between 1st and 2nd, you should be looking for a pitch that you can hit in that spot. If you are given the hit and run sign, you have to do your job, which is as beemax has explained. Personally when I was at the plate with 2 strikes, I choked up and tried to put the ball in play in most situations, but not all. If I needed a fly ball to score a run, I still tried to do that. If there were 2 out and I wasn't confident in the guy behind me and I needed 1 run to win or tie, I tried to hit the ball out of the ball park. All of these situations were the same as when I went to the plate.
beemax,
Before this thread gets buried too far, I would be curious to know if you use your “two-strike approach” when executing the hit and run. Also, if you always try to hit a ground ball in the hole between 1st and 2nd or just those pitches that were middle-out (and pull the middle-in pitches between short and 3rd).
Thanks,
THop
Before this thread gets buried too far, I would be curious to know if you use your “two-strike approach” when executing the hit and run. Also, if you always try to hit a ground ball in the hole between 1st and 2nd or just those pitches that were middle-out (and pull the middle-in pitches between short and 3rd).
Thanks,
THop
THop,
When I get a hit and run, it is slightly different from my two stirke approach because I HAVE TO put the ball in play. With two strikes, I am looking for a fastball away so I can still have timing for the fastball but I can also stay back on offspeed. I'm left-handed, so the easiest thing for me to do on a hit and run is roll a ball over between 1st and 2nd. However, the shortstop is usually covering second with a left-hander at the plate, so ideally I want to shoot a ball through the 6-hole. My approach with the hit and run is to let the ball travel, and get on top of it as hard as I can.
When I get a hit and run, it is slightly different from my two stirke approach because I HAVE TO put the ball in play. With two strikes, I am looking for a fastball away so I can still have timing for the fastball but I can also stay back on offspeed. I'm left-handed, so the easiest thing for me to do on a hit and run is roll a ball over between 1st and 2nd. However, the shortstop is usually covering second with a left-hander at the plate, so ideally I want to shoot a ball through the 6-hole. My approach with the hit and run is to let the ball travel, and get on top of it as hard as I can.
