How Do Coaches Feel About Parents With Radar

I think at the HS level and beyond they had better get used to it.

We just had over 3,000 veiws and 80+ post on the 60 time. Whats the difference if someone brings a stopwatch to the game and clocks the players running or gets the catcher's pop time.

It's part of the game at that level and beyond.

CV

I much prefer the Dad(s) to be rooting for their son and the team but if they want to use the "gun" they had better have readings for the opposing pitchers as well as any pitcher of ours in the game, not just their own son.--Requiring this can be a deterrent to some

A few years back I had a dad who charted every pitch, for and against us, regardless of who was on the man. And he had a pretty good sense regarding the velocity even with no "gun"

With us , as long as they do not go over the top it is fine

My personal opinion is that Dad's shouldn't have radar guns. Leave that to the professionals. Spend your time in the stands as a fan, encouraging your son's team.

TXMOM

An intersting side bar to this discussion--I have noticed that many of the Dads carrying radar guns are beginning to dress like the scouts-- it is happening more and more--at some events you cannot tell the dads from the scouts

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An intersting side bar to this discussion--I have noticed that many of the Dads carrying radar guns are beginning to dress like the scouts

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Yeah, we've joked about showing up with a few notebooks and three cell phones. Need to cake the gun with 10 years worth of travel gunk. Bet that would spur the kids to play well. BTW, ya got any scout fashion tips?

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they had better have readings for the opposing pitchers as well as any pitcher of ours in the game, not just their own son.

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I'm not sure what you mean. Should the dad be expected to share his readings, which I'm glad to do?

I've sort of thought that gunning other pitchers on your kid's team might be seen as intrusive. Don't want it seen as My-Kid-Is-Faster-Than-Your-Kid.

The other huge factor is 90% of kids (and dads) will be disappointed with even the best radar clockings.

Mi

In our system if you are gunning your kid you better be gunning the other pitcher as well--- Why shouldn't we take advantage of having the gun there ?

In fact though we do not get many dads with a gun and I leave mine home so they do not ask to use it--there are usually enough scouts at the events we attend to make it simple to find out what the kid is throwing if you really want to know and the scouts reading is yusually a bit lower than Dad's

There is no reason for a parent to have a radar gun at a hs game. Good rule of thumb... If no one else is putting the radar on your son there is probably no reason for a parent to do so. If someone else is gunning your son you can ask....I found this (ignorance) to be useful when meeting the college and pro scouts.
Fungo

Good post Fungo. I often wondered how fast the ball was traveling. The bottom line was it was apparently fast enough to help the team and advance a level. I am usually more concerned with the balls direction than is velocity. If it's fast enough to be noteworthy, you will find out when it is.

Regarding gunning pitchers...

"Boys, there's the first pitcher I ever saw that changed speeds on his change-up." - New York Giants Outfielder Dusty Rhodes

Stu Miller it was said never threw a pitch over 50 mph. When Miller was called up by the Cardinals in mid-1952 and manager Eddie Stanky first saw the harmless-looking, 165-lb pitcher, he asked the clubhouse man, "Who's that stenographer?" In his initial start that August 12, Miller shut out the Cubs 1-0. When he first faced the Dodgers, he no-hit them into the eighth inning. But he struggled after his rookie season and spent time in the minors before emerging as one of baseball's best relievers.

It was said that Miller threw at three speeds - slow, slower, and slowest; that "he threw a pitch that stopped"; and that "if you wait five minutes, the ball gets to you fairly fast."

He got by on a variety of curveballs and by changing speeds on his changeup. With his herky-jerky windup, he baffled hitters in both leagues.

With the Giants in 1958, he recorded a league-best 2.47 ERA, starting and relieving. He was the NL Fireman of the Year in 1961, when he registered league highs of 17 saves and 14 relief wins. Well-remembered for being literally blown off the mound by a gust of wind at Candlestick Park in the '61 All-Star Game, he won the contest, striking out Mickey Mantle, Roy Sievers, and Elston Howard in succession.

I am with TXMOM, but I see that Dad's (most) have other opinions. Leave the guns to the professionals, and if you have one leave it at home, you look soooooo ridiculous out there (no wonder why some of you dress like the scouts, you don't want to be identified as a PARENT). If you need to know the velocity, ask, anyone will gladly tell you. Funny thing is, when you really get to know your kid from OBSERVING over the years, you will know basically what the speed coming in is.
Scout told us last year any parent that he sees with a gun, he avoids.

Question, for those of you that have one, is the gun for your son or your own ego?

I have to admit that I am a gadget guy and have a couple of guns that are usually buried somewhere in the back of my Tahoe.

Knowing this, a coach once asked if I would get my gun and gun all the pitchers in the game. I reluctantly agreed. I sat in the press box behind home plate and carefully recorded all of the pitchers.

I kept meticulous records of both teams. Many of the dads would poke their heads in to find out the readings. Others huddled around me for the whole game.

At the end of the game, I handed over my efforts to the coach. He studied the sheets and remarked about the league's current flame-thrower, "Wow, 37mph, little Gene was really bringing the heat!"

Pretty silly!

Dad's, leave your guns at home, or at least buried under the spare catcher's equipment in your car, like I do. BTW, my son doesn't even catch!

The only time that I ever used a gun was when my son's advisor showed up with one. I borrowed his once and did not take it to the game. I just felt stupid. I personally don't have a problem with a dad doing it. i just won't

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TXMOM

An intersting side bar to this discussion--I have noticed that many of the Dads carrying radar guns are beginning to dress like the scouts-- it is happening more and more--at some events you cannot tell the dads from the scouts

TRhit

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I have noticed this as well. I even started to dres like a scout with my special desert hat and all. lol

I do use the gun in bullpens for feedback.

I posted this a few years ago, but here it is again. You probably can't see the size of the kids, but this was a 10 or 11 year old game in Houston. I was shaking my head as I took this picture.

GLOVE MAN

That has to be the world famous DADDY RAY GUN

You canbuy tem on ebay

I KNOW IT IS A NECESSITY WITH THE SCOUTS AS THEY HAVE A JOB TO DO. IT IS A DISTRACTION THEN BUT THERE IS A POINT FOR ITS USE. PARENTS SITTING THERE USING THEM? wHATS THE POINT?

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Originally posted by Will:
I KNOW IT IS A NECESSITY WITH THE SCOUTS AS THEY HAVE A JOB TO DO. IT IS A DISTRACTION THEN BUT THERE IS A POINT FOR ITS USE. PARENTS SITTING THERE USING THEM? wHATS THE POINT?

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First you ask the question, then it is in all caps.

Both illustrate the lack of knowledge of very opinionated people who should know better.

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Originally posted by fungo:
There is no reason for a parent to have a radar gun at a hs game. Good rule of thumb... If no one else is putting the radar on your son there is probably no reason for a parent to do so. If someone else is gunning your son you can ask....I found this (ignorance) to be useful when meeting the college and pro scouts.
Fungo

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I really believe you are wiser than this.

Darn it Will--please behave--you are getting MR KNOW IT ALL all upset

Off to the PATS and COLTS

I don't own a gun and have never used one, but I can imagine a situation that a father would want to know from week to week if a certain strength program is helping to develop velocity. Yes, I know it can be checked in the bullpen but game time is when velocity should be at its peak.

Use it for an inning and put it away-why should you care what other parents think-are they paying for the private coach/lessons. Besides, can't always count on a scout being present to see if your son's velocity has increased from 78 to 82.

Problem is that a radar gun is obvious and a stopwatch isn't.

Curious what the average age of his group is. Stu Miller's 1958 stats aren't relevant to modern baseball dominated by 6'5" 95-mph hurlers.

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We've used radar about twice a month as a training aid since age 9.Not at games, but indoors often during the winter to teach how to achieve 100% velocity when that skill (among many) is required. And no, there have been zero arm problems. NONE!

Kids learn how to throw fast AND how to throw their 100% fastball for a strike.

No one questions the ubiquitous use of watches at running events. But everyone knows where they rate in running. You'll never see a kids saying his mile time was low because the wrong brand of clock was used.

Radars presents a distraction mainly because most kids and parents grossly over-estimate pitching speed (go to any LL discussion group and see...it's ridiculous!).

It's almost impossible to use radar without insulting someone. But I bet the first Roman who brought an hour glass to the ancient Olympics faced the same problem.

micdsguy said
Curious what the average age of his group is. Stu Miller's 1958 stats aren't relevant to modern baseball dominated by 6'5" 95-mph hurlers.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

I offer the facts presented by Baseball Almanac about the relevance of pitchers. Seems that the pitchers who have more relevance to speed played many many years ago. Current versions, though good, would be considered Minor League material back then.

Teacherman

"Both lack the knowledge of very opinionated people...."

I am going to be polite and ask who are you to decide what I or anybody else who posts on this site knows and does not know?

I can tell you that one Will.

Many of these posting seem to assume that there are scouts at all or many of the HS games. In son's two years of playing at the Varsity level, I can count on one hand how many radar guns or scouts I've seen.

Our league is pretty weak even though it is Div I so there are not many scouts to be seen. In cases where there were scouts, they were there to see a position player, so no radar gun sightings.

I'm not encouraging or discouraging Dads to bring radar guns. Only expressing what I have seen during our son's games and not to make the assumption that there will be scouts there with guns.

Hopefully, this year will be different and there will be many gun sightings.

Radar is a wonderful training tool. I don't understand why so many people have trouble with it. I don't believe it is over used at all. Every coach should have one. I think it is silly to think that scouts evaluate pitchers only by their velocity.

It is great to be able to evaluate a SS throw to first. Or the velocity difference from a pitchers fastball to his change-up or curve. It is a great tool!

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It's almost impossible to use radar without insulting someone. But I bet the first Roman who brought an hour glass to the ancient Olympics faced the same problem.

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Dumb me! The ancient Olympics were in Greece, not Rome.

Timing and measuring devices allow athletes to capture achivement and compete against those they could never meet, whether far away or yet to be born.

Doug

I am with you-- Fungo is right on

But like a say if a Dad wants to use it he better have the info on all the pitchers in the game ready for me

I'm not against the use of radar guns, or measuring devices to monitor and accurately provide information at an appropriate time.

What is disturbing is the tendency by those in baseball to use the guns at earlier and earlier ages of boys with the implied impact that certain attained readings are required for them to play BB...and I consider that much of the reason that younger and younger boys are ending up having to have TJ surgery. I speak from experience where one of my son's closest friends has decided to quit BB because his rehab isn't going well and he can't get the ball past 73 mph.

A man doesn't fully grow until he is in his early 20's...what all this measuring implies to to a young boy is like treating them like a piece of meat. I believe it just serves to psychologically discourage rather than encourage...I may be wrong but I don't think so.

Young men should be allowed to learn the game, play it to find out whether it is something they really want to do that requires some measuement along the way. But that is so far out from youth BB that it amounts to misuse of its intent.

Pic,
I must commend you on this post!

Pic-

I also agree with you...good post.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Radar guns are not the problem the people using them are the problem.

Radar to most means....."Is he throwing 90?"......."Is he impressing everyone?"

To me it means......"Is he throwing what he's capable of"...."How far off is he?"...."What do we need to do to get him to his potential?"

A huge difference.

I guarantee you don't know a 2-5 mph differential by sight.

Therefore, you don't know whether a pitcher is throwing his velocity potential or not.

Therefore, you may not know when a pitcher needs mechanical work.

Of course, most of you think it's some kind of magic anyway.

A radar gun will tell you very important feedback information.

One thing I've learned from training with radar since age 9 is that speed improvement is often a matter of two steps forward, and one back.

It is frustrating to work with weights, run many miles, grow three inches taller, only to find your speed has dropped 3 mph in the short run.

But year to year, there's always been good improvement: 4-8 mph.

Teacherman,

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To me it means......"Is he throwing what he's capable of"...."How far off is he?"...."What do we need to do to get him to his potential?"

A huge difference.

I guarantee you don't know a 2-5 mph differential by sight.

Therefore, you don't know whether a pitcher is throwing his velocity potential or not.

Therefore, you may not know when a pitcher needs mechanical work.

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I agree with everything that you say in the above quote.

I use the gun as a training tool and to see if he is maintaining velocity. I did not need one my son's senior year there were plenty of scouts that had them and parents would tellme after every inning what my son's velocity was. Everybody wants to know and many parents would stand behind and watch.

Coach May

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Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Radar guns are not the problem the people using them are the problem.

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LOL

I choose not to take one to the game, but I don't judge others for wanting to. When I go to my son's games, I try to sit where I can see the team gun. I do that so I can help judge his mechanics. As much as you guys want to discout velocity training, velocity is still the benchmark for scouts. If you don't believe me, see how many right handed pitchers drafted are throwing below 90 in the top 10 rounds.Very few. Almost none out of hs.

I just don't understand coaches hating the gun irrationally. "Oh my god. he may overthrow now" Absurd. good players don't notice and the others shouldn't have it turned on them. Why a blanket rule. Just use common sense.

I also agree with bbscout and endorse fungo's post!

[QUOTEI...just don't understand coaches hating the gun irrationally. "Oh my god. he may overthrow now" Absurd...[/QUOTE]

A kid who is well trained and knows he's a few mph off will search his mechanics for the problem. He won't overthrow.

A kid who is not well trained may overthrow.

Guess what the training entails...........a radar gun.

A pitcher can certainly train without a radar gun--Gibson did it--- Feller did it--Stu Miller did it !!!

Training entails mechanics and not worrying about the velocity-- I would be more concerned about ball movement and location in combination with the mechanics--you cannot teach velocity but you can teach location and ball movement

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Originally posted by TRhit:
A pitcher can certainly train without a radar gun--Gibson did it--- Feller did it--Stu Miller did it !!!

Training entails mechanics and not worrying about the velocity-- I would be more concerned about ball movement and location in combination with the mechanics--you cannot teach velocity but you can teach location and ball movement

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You're still full of shoot. Don't let your opinion get in the way of facts.

Teacherman

Please do tell us the facts--you have not done so to date

Trhit

'You are full of shoot" since teacherman has proclaimed this you are officially in this exclusive club. Congratulations